Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

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Vipul
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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Vipul » 18 Sep 2015 07:02

I think you added one zero extra. The highest number of engineering colleges in a state in India is in Tamil Nadu - 549.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Melwyn » 18 Sep 2015 09:41

csaurabh wrote:Bhai log, what is this demand for opening more and more 'engineering kaalej' ? There are some 3000 engg college in UP now, all of them have only one purpose - to get money out of students. The quality of the teaching there is so poor that the average student coming out of them is not any better than a 12th pass. Most of these 'graduates' go for BPOs, bank jobs, etc.


:eek: Really??? 3000 eng college in UP !

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Singha » 18 Sep 2015 10:16

I think its ok if you model a engg college as a 'better' degree college . few of their products might do real engineering but then we produce so many engineers at all levels, the world cannot absorb all of them in pure engineering.

I think we should encourage engineers to apply enmasse and crowd the liberal arts cabal out of english tv and print media. the cozy cabal of english speakers needs a bit of disruption.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Vayutuvan » 18 Sep 2015 10:19

Singhasarus: what an idea. I think this should be pursued with great vigor.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Yagnasri » 18 Sep 2015 10:22

Not even better degree colleges sir. If what has happened in AP under YSR is an indication these colleges are worst degree colleges.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby csaurabh » 18 Sep 2015 10:43

Sorry yeah, its about 300 engg college in UP. About 3000 for the whole country. Most of them are awful.

The bottom 50% can barely be called colleges at all. They are places for gangsterism and politics not learning.

But there is light at the end of the tunnel- the emergence of online university degrees. Whatever you can learn in local college you can learn just as well from the internet by staying at home , and the degree holds just about the same value while costing way, way less ( about Rs. 6000 compared to a few lakhs ) . I predict that a vast majority of local colleges will get obsolete in the next 10 years because of this.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Suraj » 18 Sep 2015 11:23

GoI continues to pursue power discom reforms, one of the biggest sinks of indebtedness today:
Carrot & stick approach for sick power discoms
The Centre has come up with a slew of carrot and stick measures to push sick state power distribution companies (discoms) towards financial and technical restructuring. Instead of giving financial backing, it is likely to cut central funds if these companies fail to cut losses and carry out the restructuring suggested by it.

According to the plan, discoms' debt will be transferred to the state government concerned, which will issue bonds from a part of it (this percentage could vary across states). Sources in the know said if the state government failed to honour the bond terms or defaulted on the dividend payment, the Centre would divert some of its financial grant intended for that state to bond owners.

Sources in the government said the diversion of grant could be through tax devolution from the Centre to states.

To service the remaining debt and bring about long-term efficiency, states will have to increase power rates and reduce technical losses with Centre-initiated reform schemes - the Integrated Power Development Scheme and the Deendayal Upadhyay Gram Jyoti Yojana.

The Centre will propose these measures to all sick state electricity boards. Those agreeing to these will have to abide by the terms and conditions set to reform their power utilities.

The DRC is primarily focusing on eight states that contribute the highest to the overall accumulated debt of Rs 3.17 lakh crore - Rajasthan, Andhra Pradesh, Uttar Pradesh, Tamil Nadu, Haryana, Jharkhand, Bihar and Telangana.

The committee, chaired by the secretary in the power ministry, also has representation from member states. The secretary (banking) in the finance ministry, the chairmen of Power Finance Corporation and Rural Electrification Corporation are members, while senior executives from Torrent Power, Tata Power and CESC are special invitees.

Interestingly, every year we import $14-15 billion worth of vegetable oil. That's about the value of a well known fighter deal, being imported and consumed each year:
Edible oil import bill may soar to $14 bn in FY16: ASSOCHAM
India's edible oil import bill could rise to $14 billion in the current financial year, as oilseeds production may come down due to a deficient monsoon, according to a latest study by ASSOCHAM.

India meets 60 per cent of its annual vegetable oil demand of 17-18 million tonnes (MT) via imports. Palm oils make up over 70 per cent of the country's total vegetable oil imports.

In 2014-15 fiscal, the country's edible oil import bill stood at $10 billion, the highest until then as the rains were deficient in the growing states last year as well.


"..Vegetable oil imports would reach around $14 billion for 2015-16 which was actually around $10 billion last year," the study said.

Edible oil imports would surge as the production of oil seeds is likely to be at the level of 2014-15 due to a deficient monsoon and the demand may also go up this year, the study added.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby chaanakya » 18 Sep 2015 12:10

Dipanker wrote:
I am little bit skeptical about the figure of 5,000 you are quoting. Bihar has over 25 Engineering colleges including an IIT. Perhaps these 5,000 may just be the seats available only in the govt. engineering college? And there are more in the 20 odd private engineering colleges?

Of course UP has many more and remember my argument was for UP and Bihar combined which you highlighted and marked wrong!

Does UP needs more engineering college, I think you would agree with me that it does not.

Now Bihar has over 25 engineering colleges, does Bihar need more? I think the more relevant question is can Bihar gainfully employ all the engineers it is producing? I am afraid the answer is going to be not, and certainly not after carving out of Jharkhand from it which happened to be the industrialized part of the state. Without Jharkhand Bihar has practically no industry whatsoever. Incidentally Bihar also lost half its engineering college to Jharkhand.

Yes a certain number Biharis and UPites who fail to get admission in the local engineering colleges because they did not make the cut do go to engineering colleges in south because they can afford to pay. This has been the trend for a long time.

So there is a demand, question is what stops the private sector from filling the demand gap? After all there are already 20 of them operating, and after all the engineering colleges they go to in south are all private colleges.

Now I will agree that both Bihar and UP lag in educational sector and level of literacy compared to rest of the country but even then there are massive number of educated people including engineers unemployed in these states ( hence 2300000 application for just 368 peon jobs, many of the applicants being engineers).


First of all your skepticism will not change the ground reality. You can count thee list of approved engineering colleges in Bihar by AICTE.. Seats don't exceed what I quoted, +- a few.

And yes UP needs more colleges. If with 7+lakh students TN can have 2.36 lakh seats and 498 colleges, give and take a few, the UP certainly needs much more with 14+lakh students.

They may become glorified mechanics but even then it is an opportunity to better their life.

I don't know where do you get your facts. Bihar did not lose engineering colleges to Jharkhand. Simply it did not have one. As of now Jharkhand has only one college under Govt of Jharkhand i.e. BIT Sindri. BITS Mesra is in Pvt sector. NIT Jamshedpur is in Central sector. Whereas on Partition , Bihar had more number of colleges , relatively speaking. Bhagalpur, Patna(2), Darbhanga, Muzaffarpur,Gaya, Motihari,Nalanda had colleges.

I am not counting Central Insitutiions. But each state has one NIT and Patna has one. Now Patna has on IIT.

Of 5+ lakh students in Bihar you have less than 1% intake within Bihar and you tell me that they have not made the cut. A student getting 50% in Bihar Board is far better than those getting 80-90% in TN Board who basically become muggers. It is my empirical observation. They become good after mentoring and exposure to real world. TN board syllabus is worst , the least I can say. Do you know what % pass in IIT this year from TN Govt Schools of TN Board? It was categorised under "Other" category with less than 100.

One can count list of private engineering colleges in Bihar on fingertips. Anyway here is the partial, dated list but yet it would give you fair idea and rid you of wrong notions.

On , Quality of colleges. I have seen many colleges with good buildings and absolutely sucked up faculty and facilities in TN. No wonder almost 80000 to 100000 seats go vacant. If Bihar and UP students don't join they would have to shut shop.
So , quality is required but then you have to open it first before going for NAAC.

On Employment, the question is whether these engineers can find jobs, not only in Bihar but anywhere. I am not sure why you mentioned Bihar. Does TN employs all within TN? Then how come lakhs of Indians become NRIs and code coolies in Western Countries?
What abt Bengaluru. Does it employ only Kannada or takes people from all over the country? Do you know how many of them are from UP and Bihar educated in TN and Ktk?? Does India absorb all within the country?? Why do students go abroad for jobs?? Do you mean to say that these options should be reserved for rest of the country excluding Bihar and UP. I can not but disagree with you.

Do you have any idea about applicants in TN Govt Jobs? I have . I have recruited, Veterinary doctors, PhD holders, BTech and what not for clerical level, Homeguards and Police constables, sub inspectors.In absence of Govt jobs in engineering sector people , sometimes prefer odd jobs for a variety of reasons. No state is exception.

I agree that Bihar needs to create jobs. But how will it be done without undertaking development projects?? It would not come unless govt does the planning and invests in that. Why Pvt sector would do it in Bihar or UP unlesss there is conducive environment and better law and order. Is it there? who is going to answer? Govt has abdicated its basic responsibility to provide education and security. How development will come?

However , one need not compete with other states. Every state has rights to develop in their own way. Bihar Govt has abdicated its responsibility towards people.

Ref:

http://dst.bih.nic.in/EngineeringCollegeDetails.aspx

http://www.aicte-india.org/downloads/Li ... 5-2016.pdf

http://admission.aglasem.com/total-numb ... tate-wise/

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby chaanakya » 18 Sep 2015 12:20

Singha wrote:I think its ok if you model a engg college as a 'better' degree college . few of their products might do real engineering but then we produce so many engineers at all levels, the world cannot absorb all of them in pure engineering.

I think we should encourage engineers to apply enmasse and crowd the liberal arts cabal out of english tv and print media. the cozy cabal of english speakers needs a bit of disruption.

One of my cousin's son from IIT KGP in production Eng got offer from Flipkart for Rs 11 L PA . Is it pure engineering that flipkart offers to a production engineer from IIT?? So can we classify IITs Uber Better Degree college??
Anyway all engineeringcolleges in India are degree colleges mostly and firstly.
I agree with your second statement .

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Yagnasri » 18 Sep 2015 12:32

Almost all people got out from IIT I know now a days have gone in to software. Many I have interviewed for bank jobs are also have only BE degree. The madness in AP for BE and M.B.B.S. may be a reason for this. One bank director asked me why most of the people from AP has only BE and no one has any B Com etc.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Aditya_V » 18 Sep 2015 13:37

You can Science and go do Commerce degrees like CA, Banking jobs MBA Finance. if you do B.Com etc. you are Pigeon holing yourself, you can never change your decision. Hell in my time you could not apply to Navy and AF if don't have Physics and Chemistry in 12th.

Best advice is to anyone is take science in 11th and 12th, and BE or such degree, you can always move to a commerce stream late.r.

But showing BE are unemloyed shows anther elephant in the room. We ddont have enough maanufacturing in this country, from electricity to Shipbuilding, Defence, Aviation, road infrastructure we lack jobs.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby chaanakya » 18 Sep 2015 14:25

Second that. In fact One could become RBI Guv and waste one's engineering talent if one had any.

We lack jobs in India. Bihar Lacks Engineering education on the top of that. Double whammy. Paying the folly of Laloo Yadava and Jungleraj and years of congi rule.

Need to restrain posting on this topic lest Owner bredater surajmal swoops upon aam abduls.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Vadivel » 18 Sep 2015 14:31

Bihar first lacks law and order.

Law and Order are one of the basics, if that could not be gotten right, planning for education infrastructure over which industries piggy bank is all moot points, afaik.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Singha » 18 Sep 2015 16:29

http://www.ndtv.com/bihar/on-bihar-trai ... ve-1218938

young men on a train in bihar asked about their plans

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby James B » 18 Sep 2015 17:59

What's with Raghuram Rajan giving new lame excuses every other day for not cutting interest rates. Now he is saying low CPI inflation is due to base effect. Mr RBI governor act on data not your whims & fancies. All data points towards a rate cut but RR wouldn't have any of that.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Theo_Fidel » 18 Sep 2015 18:05

Usually a certain chunk of those going into the engineering stream will flame out at various stages. It is not an easy profession. I would say even in USA only about 30% of those who start engineering stream stay in it till say 10 years after graduating. It is only 10 years after graduating that an engineer become truly useful and productive. In USA vast majority flame out during course work which is a cause for scandal in USA too. In my USA College the first structural Engineering Recitation had 280 students. The last one had less than 60 and if IIRC correctly only 30 or so managed to graduate as engineers. India seems to do this winnowing AFTER graduation. Kinda wasteful if you ask me but that is the way it is. One way or another if you want about 100,000 useful engineers you need to start with about 300,000-500,000 entering the pool, then you start slicing and dicing.... ..people need to understand this.
---------------------------------

Chaanakya, too many Bihar engineer students have certain issues that hold them back though things are getting better, and it is probably OT here. I have seen many in Chennai, even rented my apartment to a batch of them, good guys all but like I said they come with a few disadvantages WRT their competition in TN. They definitely need to work on their english. It limits their job prospects even within TN. Don't listen to all the vernacular education supporters, folks need jobs right now, tell them they need fluent English...
------------------------------------------------

The thing people need to understand is that there is relentless competition for factory jobs. For some reason people think its is throw away thing that we can dump our worst workers. Companies have voted with their feet on where they want to be and the type of worker they want. They want urban professionals, meaning english for a start, essentially the same crowd that runs our IT companies, there are certain other qualities too that they prefer. You can see it in all the placement adds. Even states like Bihar are in desperate competition with states like MH, TN GJ, KA, etc for the same factories. Large tax incentives and Crores in grants, land, infrastructure are being provided by these states. If Bihar wants to get serious it is going to have to gird up its loins and enter the battle. It is very expensive battle and there will be heartbreak but victories too...

No matter what there won't be enough factory jobs to go around. Certain areas will get them other areas will struggle. Raw numbers. All of china has 120 million factory workers. Including Construction workers BTW! When you consider even China has ~ 800 Million workers, only 1 in 6 or 7 gets to be a factory worker. And this is after China exports its shoddy products around the world for bucks and dimes.. .. not really domestic market...
Last edited by Theo_Fidel on 18 Sep 2015 18:29, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby member_23365 » 18 Sep 2015 18:18

James B wrote:What's with Raghuram Rajan giving new lame excuses every other day for not cutting interest rates. Now he is saying low CPI inflation is due to base effect. Mr RBI governor act on data not your whims & fancies. All data points towards a rate cut but RR wouldn't have any of that.


I am starting to have doubts now with RR, he is acting like former defence minister AKA. Inflation has been under control for more than a year. We have FX reserve of $350 billion and price of crude doesnt seems to be going up anytime soon. there should be rate cut six months back but we are getting "Tarekh pe tarekh".

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Supratik » 18 Sep 2015 18:59

I think what the Commies did in WB as suggested by Picklu and the Englishification suggested by Theo are two extremes. MNCs run huge factories in China, Korea, Japan, and SE Asia where the population is not by general info fluent in English. I will not be surprised if they use the local language. As mentioned by others the problem in UP, BH, WB is not English. And Theo don't take it otherwise by many Tamils speak English with an accent which makes it hard for others to understand what they are saying. I think a working knowledge of English is sufficient. and it has nothing to do with industrialization. That is the point I wanted to make.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby chaanakya » 18 Sep 2015 19:27

Theo_Fidel wrote:
---------------------------------

Chaanakya, too many Bihar engineer students have certain issues that hold them back though things are getting better, and it is probably OT here. I have seen many in Chennai, even rented my apartment to a batch of them, good guys all but like I said they come with a few disadvantages WRT their competition in TN. They definitely need to work on their english. It limits their job prospects even within TN. Don't listen to all the vernacular education supporters, folks need jobs right now, tell them they need fluent English...
------------------------------------------------
....... If Bihar wants to get serious it is going to have to gird up its loins and enter the battle. It is very expensive battle and there will be heartbreak but victories too...
.


As much as I would like to do education in local language, the current reality is different If one wants to compete in a limited job pool/Education pool English is sine qua non. So I would give the same advice to Students in Bihar if they eant to stay relevant for job market. But I guess for 5000 top of the line students who gets to enter Govt engineering colleges (excluding IIT and NIT) I don't have to do that. What you may have seen in TN is perhaps bottom of the rung students. Anyway all of them have to attend finishing school if their college has any. In fact for TN students also , we have heard similar complaints and asked colleges to run finishing schools to teach them communication skills, spoken english etc. And they have done better in their career by their standards( I mean Engineer son of a Rickshaw puller vs IAS officer Vs Reliance or Tata head honcho's son, each with different expectations and skill sets). We can't blame them.

I asked Education Secy of Bihar in the first tenure of Nikuamma to allow issue of NOCs for Engineering colleges in a simplified manner. I won't tell you the response as result is obvious.I had seen the fate of first ever private engineering college and its students who had to run from pillar to post to get their final degree. That was way back in 1980s. We missed the bus in 1990s and Nikuamma missed the bus in 2000s. Now there is some hope that economy would again be on fast track after NaMo came. I pray to God that this time at least we don't miss the bus.

Rythya, you are right. Law and Order. This was the reply given by the chairman of one of the prominent educational trust of South India when I asked him to set up his college in Bihar. Besides he also told me that Politicians not only ask one time money ( in TN they ask and get it and be done with it mostly,) but also demand jobs, seats on recurring basis besides protection money and threat of kidnapping and murder. He was holding enrollment camps in Patna and Ranchi and had engaged brokers to get students. Almost all students in management quota came from Bihar. I spoke to several well intended people but story remains the same. We never know when Jungleraj would return like when UPA would make a comeback after NDA-2/3.

But public has to take up the issue. Nikuamma has miserably;y failed. It is time we elect NaMo ( forget Bihar BJP unit, they are good for nothing bunch of losers) and ask him to nominate his CM for development of Bihar.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby chaanakya » 18 Sep 2015 19:30

I was given a very valuable lesson in Japan. If you want to improve your bottomline concentrate on improving the weakest of the lot while keeping up the morale of high performers .. Chain is as strong as its weakest link, we all know that. So if India has to develop it has to come from these Bimaru region

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Theo_Fidel » 18 Sep 2015 19:50

Supratik wrote:And Theo don't take it otherwise by many Tamils speak English with an accent which makes it hard for others to understand what they are saying.


No sir, accent doesn't matter.. They need to be able to read, write and listen to what is being said at high speed.... , like I said fluency, not MA lit...
----------------

chaanakya wrote:...So if India has to develop it has to come from these Bimaru region


Yup! I too have come around to this point of view. Everyone is going on and on about this slow down but you visit Bengluru and Chennai type places there is no real slow down. They are flogging themselves as hard as possible, projects all over the place, more factories, more infrastructure, more power plants, etc but the Heartland is so vast and so beat down now it is not having the same effect as 10-20 years ago to India's bottom line.

The per capita income spread between TN & Bihar is now 5 times! Even if TN doubles its income, statistically the effect on India will be much less.

I have long advocated that we start a dedicated Thread devoted to the economy of the Heartland and what ails it and ways forward. But instead we have more discussion on KL, TN Delhi, etc. Same old culprits...

BTW my own recommendation coming from TN is don't depend on Delhi politics for your states salvation. If you don't like NiKu find other local leaders to rally around. Back in the day KK & JJ were called all manner of unprintable names in national press and too be honest they too behaved like buffoons occasioanlly, TN mostly ignored the press and still does. No one is beyond reform and correcting their mistakes including folks like Lallu & NiKu, don't write them off, though definitely punish them to show who is boss. The consensus within Bihar is changing, that itself is a good start, back in the day Bihar used to be one of the well run states, when TN was a basket case. The unfortunate consensus back then was village, panchayat, farm, family before all, social stability, etc. Sadly this consensus has proven a failure just about everywhere it was tried, well maybe the exception is PJ, but Bihar now needs a new consensus....
Last edited by Theo_Fidel on 18 Sep 2015 20:11, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Supratik » 18 Sep 2015 19:59

Yes, working knowledge is sufficient. BTW why high speed. High speed is not good communication.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby svenkat » 18 Sep 2015 20:13

I have recruited, Veterinary doctors, PhD holders, BTech and what not for clerical level, Homeguards and Police constables, sub inspectors.


Sir,
Dont tell me you are a member of TNPSC.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Theo_Fidel » 18 Sep 2015 20:16

Supratik wrote:Yes, working knowledge is sufficient. BTW why high speed. High speed is not good communication.


fluency... ..what is so hard to understand.

Time is money. Go listen to the pace of announcements at the Samsung Factory. In the morning they set the cadence for worker productivity. Most tasks are set at 4 seconds. You can have 20 different products come through the station. The managers tell me at 3.5 seconds they make money, at 4 seconds they break even, at 4.5 seconds they lose money.... ..you have enough 4.5 seconders, the factory will go to Vietnam... ..which has made english compulsory for all school leavers by 2020...
Last edited by Theo_Fidel on 18 Sep 2015 20:28, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby chaanakya » 18 Sep 2015 20:25

svenkat wrote:
I have recruited, Veterinary doctors, PhD holders, BTech and what not for clerical level, Homeguards and Police constables, sub inspectors.


Sir,
Dont tell me you are a member of TNPSC.

Did I mention that? TN, Good god. No not at all, Sirji.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Supratik » 18 Sep 2015 20:27

OK, got it.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby chaanakya » 18 Sep 2015 20:37

Raghuram Rajan warns against chasing economic growth too fast
Reuters | Sep 18, 2015, 06.33PM IST

MUMBAI: India must focus on keeping inflation low and avoid using monetary policy alone and short-term government incentives to fuel short-term economic growth, the central bank governor said on Friday.

Reserve Bank of India governor Raghuram Rajan is under growing pressure, from industry and from within the government, to cut interest rates as India's economic growth stutters and inflation cools.

On Friday, Indian markets rallied as investors bet there would be a cut this month after the US Federal Reserve kept interest rates on hold.

Rajan said monetary policy can help strengthen the current economic recovery, but he added India will ultimately "expand sustainable growth potential only by continuing to implement reforms the government and regulators have announced."

READ ALSO: RBI rate cut near certainty on Sept 29 after US Fed's status quo on rates

"For us at the RBI, the key tasks are to keep inflation low, not just today, but well into the future," he said in a lecture organized by the Confederation of Indian Industry.

Analysts said Rajan's remarks left open chances for a rate cut, without feeding speculation.

"What he is trying to do is temper expectations," Vijay Sharma, senior executive vice-president at primary dealer PNB Gilts Ltd in New Delhi.

India's consumer inflation in August hit a record low of 3.66 per cent. Rajan, however, attributed that to a favourable base effect and said retail prices would have grown around mid-5 per cent without that positive comparison.

READ ALSO: Sustained low inflation necessary for lower cost of fund, RBI says

The RBI has a consumer inflation target of 2 to 6 per cent.

Rajan used Brazil as a "salutary lesson" in how the wrong policies — including using low rates to fuel unsustainable growth and government policies that favoured only some sectors — can impact emerging markets.

He noted Brazil's current fiscal and economic woes today came after the country "tried to grow too fast".

Although Rajan said India was far sturdier, calling it "an island of calm in an ocean of turmoil".

READ ALSO: Hope RBI will take note of falling inflation, Jaitley says

Most analysts expect the RBI to cut rates this month, but doubts remain about how much lower they can go, given the RBI has projected consumer inflation will rise again to 6 per cent by January.

Currently set at 7.25 per cent, a quarter percentage point cut in the repo rate would reduce it to its lowest since May 2011. The RBI has already cut the policy rate by 75 basis point so far this year.

Analysts said the RBI would likely continue to monitor how much banks pass on existing rate cuts, the Fed's policy, and the pace of government reforms to determine future action

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Supratik » 18 Sep 2015 20:41

He seems to be an inflation Ayotallah.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Suraj » 18 Sep 2015 20:49

It's his job. And it's others' job to keep pushing him to cut rates. Nothing new here. Elsewhere:
SBI, Yes Bank, predict 25 bps rate cut by RBI
With the US Federal Reserve maintaining status-quo on interest rates, at least two major banks expect the Reserve Bank of India to cut interest rate by 25 basis points in its next policy review meeting on September 29.

Meanwhile, despite poor monsoons, Yes Bank expects the retail inflation to cool down due to good supply management policies of the government. Notably, in August, the Consumer Price Index fell to 3.66%, against compared with 3.69% in July.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Dipanker » 19 Sep 2015 02:29

chaanakya wrote:
First of all your skepticism will not change the ground reality. You can count thee list of approved engineering colleges in Bihar by AICTE.. Seats don't exceed what I quoted, +- a few.



My skepticism was based on the fact:
Bihar has 4 central engineering college ( per the link I posted earlier)
Bihar has 7 state govt. run engineering colleges ( per the link I posted earlier)
Bihar has 20 private Engineering colleges ( per Google)

That is total of 31, thus a figure of 5,000 sounds little on the lower side.

But that is beside the point, because thrust of my argument is diametrically opposite to yours. Like I said earlier, Bihar with just 1% share of national manufacturing/Industrial sector simply can not absorb all the engineers it is currently producing. So any suggestion that it needs more engineering colleges just does not make sense to me.

And yes UP needs more colleges. If with 7+lakh students TN can have 2.36 lakh seats and 498 colleges, give and take a few, the UP certainly needs much more with 14+lakh students.


This is even more bizarre logic by way of linear interpolation. It does not work that way when you have up to 90% unemployment among the existing number.
UP has over 300+ engineering college, close to 150,000 seats, and you are recommending adding more engineering colleges ??

I just can not agree with you on this one.

They may become glorified mechanics but even then it is an opportunity to better their life.


The problem is they will be becoming glorified mechanic at the cost of those from polytechnic and ITI's who have been trained to become such mechanics. This is not problem solving.

I don't know where do you get your facts. Bihar did not lose engineering colleges to Jharkhand. Simply it did not have one. As of now Jharkhand has only one college under Govt of Jharkhand i.e. BIT Sindri. BITS Mesra is in Pvt sector. NIT Jamshedpur is in Central sector. Whereas on Partition , Bihar had more number of colleges , relatively speaking. Bhagalpur, Patna(2), Darbhanga, Muzaffarpur,Gaya, Motihari,Nalanda had colleges.


You are bean counting, I don't differentiate in terms of central, state, private etc, for me if they are within they physical boundary of the state they count as belonging to the state. Now since you are asking where I get my facts from, let me point out the factual error in your post. Before becoming a NIT Jamshedpur used to an REC, and thus like all REC at least partly administered by the state (Bihar) govt till 2000.

I am not counting Central Insitutiions. But each state has one NIT and Patna has one. Now Patna has on IIT.


I do count them, it does not make sense to not count them.

Of 5+ lakh students in Bihar you have less than 1% intake within Bihar and you tell me that they have not made the cut. A student getting 50% in Bihar Board is far better than those getting 80-90% in TN Board who basically become muggers. It is my empirical observation. They become good after mentoring and exposure to real world. TN board syllabus is worst , the least I can say. Do you know what % pass in IIT this year from TN Govt Schools of TN Board? It was categorised under "Other" category with less than 100.


1% is 1 in 100, that sounds about right cut off for engineering admission to me. Those who can't make it to IIT's, NIT's, state run, and good privates will end in donation type institutions. I don't see any problem with that.
And if there is demand then let the private sector fill it up, nobody is stopping them from doing it.


One can count list of private engineering colleges in Bihar on fingertips. Anyway here is the partial, dated list but yet it would give you fair idea and rid you of wrong notions.


Google says there are 20 of them, and 11 in the public sector, but you think Bihar needs more than 31?

On , Quality of colleges. I have seen many colleges with good buildings and absolutely sucked up faculty and facilities in TN. No wonder almost 80000 to 100000 seats go vacant. If Bihar and UP students don't join they would have to shut shop.
So , quality is required but then you have to open it first before going for NAAC.


I don't know, I wasn't talking about quality. When you have 500+ engineering colleges, except for the handful ( say 20 - 30, pick a number ) most are going to be garbage. Fewer means better quality.

On Employment, the question is whether these engineers can find jobs, not only in Bihar but anywhere. I am not sure why you mentioned Bihar. Does TN employs all within TN? Then how come lakhs of Indians become NRIs and code coolies in Western Countries?
What abt Bengaluru. Does it employ only Kannada or takes people from all over the country? Do you know how many of them are from UP and Bihar educated in TN and Ktk?? Does India absorb all within the country?? Why do students go abroad for jobs?? Do you mean to say that these options should be reserved for rest of the country excluding Bihar and UP. I can not but disagree with you.


Most of what you are saying is given. You can pick another state if you like, it does not matter. Point being if these states have more or less similar level of unemployment among engineers, he/she will have same chances of finding job in another state. Of course the 80% unemployed engineers of karnatka can look for jobs in Bihar and the 80% unemployed engineers of Bihar can look for job in Karnatka. Reminds me a funny cartoon I saw years ago, a laid off IBM employee is retraining to find a job in Detroit manufacturing and a laid off manufacturing worker from Detroit is retraining to find a job in IT/Software sector!


Do you have any idea about applicants in TN Govt Jobs? I have . I have recruited, Veterinary doctors, PhD holders, BTech and what not for clerical level, Homeguards and Police constables, sub inspectors.In absence of Govt jobs in engineering sector people , sometimes prefer odd jobs for a variety of reasons. No state is exception.


I have absolutely no idea and I will take your word for it.

But how does increasing the number of engineering colleges alleviates this problem ? It would only make it worse, won't it?

I agree that Bihar needs to create jobs. But how will it be done without undertaking development projects?? It would not come unless govt does the planning and invests in that. Why Pvt sector would do it in Bihar or UP unlesss there is conducive environment and better law and order. Is it there? who is going to answer? Govt has abdicated its basic responsibility to provide education and security. How development will come?

However , one need not compete with other states. Every state has rights to develop in their own way. Bihar Govt has abdicated its responsibility towards people.


I will mostly agree with on this one, tragedy of Bihar has been that it hasn't had a good leader in a long time, and Laloo has been the biggest asshole of all.
Last edited by Dipanker on 19 Sep 2015 02:57, edited 1 time in total.

Dipanker
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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Dipanker » 19 Sep 2015 02:38

rhytha wrote:Bihar first lacks law and order.

Law and Order are one of the basics, if that could not be gotten right, planning for education infrastructure over which industries piggy bank is all moot points, afaik.


You are gonna find it shocking that as per this somewhat dated stat. (2012) TN ranks third in per capita crime and Bihar 22.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_st ... crime_rate

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Dipanker » 19 Sep 2015 02:51

Singha wrote:http://www.ndtv.com/bihar/on-bihar-trains-young-men-say-no-choice-but-to-leave-1218938?utm_source=ndtv&utm_medium=top-stories-widget&utm_campaign=story-5-http%3a%2f%2fwww.ndtv.com%2fbihar%2fon-bihar-trains-young-men-say-no-choice-but-to-leave-1218938

young men on a train in bihar asked about their plans


Actually this NDTV clip partly answers the following query you posted earlier.

can someone list the biggest public and private sector employers in Bihar. let us study this as a test case. with a pop of 100 million there ought to be dozens of large units in both PSU and private sectors there for things to be in balance.


As per the documentary, Bihar has just 1% of the total national manufacturing/Industrial sector share.

As per wikipedia, Bihar economy is 22% agriculture, 5% manufacturing, and the rest 73% service.

Bihar currently has just 2 PSU, a refinary in Barauni, and railway wagon manufacturing at Muzzafarpur/Mokamah. The latter is quite small joint.

Largest public employer is of course Bihar govt. There is practically nothing in terms of big private investment.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Vadivel » 19 Sep 2015 08:52

I am unable to figure out your point of view that "since there are no industries" there are no "engineering colleges". Take the example of KTK right now, the present CM is not very business friendly, why do industries still invest in KTK, so political leadership is not the be-all and end-all.

Lets assume that Bihar had a good leadership and very friendly industrial policy, good infrastructure etc, my opinion is still it would not attract many industries since you need human resources, good law and order(i did see the stats you had posted, and accept it, but people/industries have voted with their feet, so thats the reality). People from other states will still not be ready to move to Bihar for work for various reasons.

Also putting all the blame on the leadership of state is also not good, there was lot of years before jungle raj when people could have chosen a leader who was development orientated.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Vayutuvan » 19 Sep 2015 09:23

chaanakya wrote:IIT KGP in production Eng got offer from Flipkart for Rs 11 L PA . Is it pure engineering that flipkart offers to a production engineer from IIT?
I agree with your second statement .

Flipcart deals in logistics and distribution. Guess what? Production Engg is a sub discipline of industrial Engg. which deals with all kinds of manufacturing processes, factory layout, inventory control, ppc, and distribution channels, transportation, capacity planning, and logistics in general. Again the common substrate is operations research, Sqc, queuing theory. It would be very difficult for your garden variety BCom to understand the finer points of the algorithms and processes in a complicated logistics and inventory control and supply chain operation flip cart. If the BComs go onto IIMs and get an MBA in production management they would be able to grasp the mathematics and the logic of the business processes. Otherwise there is no competition between a production engineer from an IIT vs.a BCom even if from one tof the top colleges of the metros. Neither they would have the depth nor the basic foundation to be able to contribute to flip art like company within a short time on the job. If flipcart is hiring these people over others, they are doing the right thing.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby srin » 19 Sep 2015 09:31

rhytha wrote:I am unable to figure out your point of view that "since there are no industries" there are no "engineering colleges". Take the example of KTK right now, the present CM is not very business friendly, why do industries still invest in KTK, so political leadership is not the be-all and end-all.


There is one prime reason why any student would select an engineering college - job prospects particularly campus placements. Most companies visit the prime colleges of a region and after that, they visit the tier-2 colleges near their office.

That leaves the tier-2, tier-3 engineering colleges in a lurch if there are no industries nearby. No campus and no jobs. So, why would the students go for it ?
If you want to know the profile of a college, look at the campus placement figures.

Now, as far as KTK is concerned - there is the inertia effect (companies & engg colleges are already here), so will take a while to realize that TN and AP are stealing the KTK lunch right below the noses. Won't be long before AP creates a tech park around Hindupur or Kolar and TN creates one in Hosur.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby chaanakya » 19 Sep 2015 14:03

vayu tuvan wrote:
chaanakya wrote:IIT KGP in production Eng got offer from Flipkart for Rs 11 L PA . Is it pure engineering that flipkart offers to a production engineer from IIT?
I agree with your second statement .

Flipcart deals in logistics and distribution. Guess what? Production Engg is a sub discipline of industrial Engg. which deals with all kinds of manufacturing processes, factory layout, inventory control, ppc, and distribution channels, transportation, capacity planning, and logistics in general. Again the common substrate is operations research, Sqc, queuing theory. It would be very difficult for your garden variety BCom to understand the finer points of the algorithms and processes in a complicated logistics and inventory control and supply chain operation flip cart. If the BComs go onto IIMs and get an MBA in production management they would be able to grasp the mathematics and the logic of the business processes. Otherwise there is no competition between a production engineer from an IIT vs.a BCom even if from one tof the top colleges of the metros. Neither they would have the depth nor the basic foundation to be able to contribute to flip art like company within a short time on the job. If flipcart is hiring these people over others, they are doing the right thing.

did I say BCOM?? MBA with Marketing would suffice for Flipkart. Anyway , the boy is apparently not very enthusiastic and decided to pursue MTech from USA and preparing for that when his final semester ends by April next. He thinks he would have some other offers and MTech offer as well. Parents are quite happy with flipkart offer but unable to pressurize him.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby chaanakya » 19 Sep 2015 14:41

Dipanker wrote:

My skepticism was based on the fact:
Bihar has 4 central engineering college ( per the link I posted earlier)
Bihar has 7 state govt. run engineering colleges ( per the link I posted earlier)
Bihar has 20 private Engineering colleges ( per Google)

That is total of 31, thus a figure of 5,000 sounds little on the lower side.

But that is beside the point, because thrust of my argument is diametrically opposite to yours. Like I said earlier, Bihar with just 1% share of national manufacturing/Industrial sector simply can not absorb all the engineers it is currently producing. So any suggestion that it needs more engineering colleges just does not make sense to me.


So what is not suited to your logic is besides the point?? Do you really think that all engineering graduates find job in respective states or even in India? By any matrix Bihar has low number of engineering colleges and more number of aspiring students and many of them are not able to meet cost of study outside the state. And if you talk of industries, then let me remind you that till early 70s , in United Bihar they had more Industries than in Ktk or TN. Still exists in Jharkhand yet they too face similar situation. So I don't go by your logic that engineering colleges would follow industrialization. In TN and Ktk it happened even before development took place.

Dipanker wrote:
This is even more bizarre logic by way of linear interpolation. It does not work that way when you have up to 90% unemployment among the existing number.
UP has over 300+ engineering college, close to 150,000 seats, and you are recommending adding more engineering colleges ??

I just can not agree with you on this one.

This is not linear logic but the availability of aspiring manpower waiting to get degree in engineering. They can't get in their states. So guess where would they go. TN and Ktk. Yes they lunch is provided by Bihar and UP students. Else many would shut their shop. Now that is a good case to start colleges in their own states.


Dipanker wrote:
The problem is they will be becoming glorified mechanic at the cost of those from polytechnic and ITI's who have been trained to become such mechanics. This is not problem solving.

You are looking at quality even when you know of 500+ colleges in TN not all produce engineering students of same quality. Heck, even IITs don't do that. The degree offer them better employment opportunities. You don't seem to be aware of availability of polytechnics in Bihar. Else you would not have said that. See the AICTE list I linked.



You are bean counting, I don't differentiate in terms of central, state, private etc, for me if they are within they physical boundary of the state they count as belonging to the state. Now since you are asking where I get my facts from, let me point out the factual error in your post. Before becoming a NIT Jamshedpur used to an REC, and thus like all REC at least partly administered by the state (Bihar) govt till 2000.


Of so now it has become bean counting. Central Institutions intake is from all India pool. NIT/RECs take 50% from Home state rest from all india quota. Anyway even if you count then numbers would not change. newer colleges , mostly private will not have more than 180 + intake during first few years of their opening. They may not invest in capital intensive departmentss like civil , mechanical and electrical. Mostly do with CS, ECE, EEE or IT. So you can do the math even when I have linked the pages with list of the colleges.

I do count them, it does not make sense to not count them.

As I said it would not make much dent in the number of intake of students from Bihar or UP.

Dipanker wrote:
1% is 1 in 100, that sounds about right cut off for engineering admission to me. Those who can't make it to IIT's, NIT's, state run, and good privates will end in donation type institutions. I don't see any problem with that.
And if there is demand then let the private sector fill it up, nobody is stopping them from doing it.

Well they go to fill up seats in TN etc. Not all of them. And what "sounds" right to you may not be right actually. I would do rather comparative study than to find the right cut offs and deny the opportunity to some deserving students just because I don't have colleges or Industries whereas they can very well get employed elsewhere also.


Dipanker wrote:
Google says there are 20 of them, and 11 in the public sector, but you think Bihar needs more than 31?


It is pretty obvious. I think they need more nased on demands from students and by the number of sstudents who are forced to go outside as none is available at home state.
Dipanker wrote:
I don't know, I wasn't talking about quality. When you have 500+ engineering colleges, except for the handful ( say 20 - 30, pick a number ) most are going to be garbage. Fewer means better quality.

That's pretty good logic. Actually zero would mean best quality by your logic. But I don't agree.

Dipanker wrote:

Most of what you are saying is given. You can pick another state if you like, it does not matter. Point being if these states have more or less similar level of unemployment among engineers, he/she will have same chances of finding job in another state. Of course the 80% unemployed engineers of karnatka can look for jobs in Bihar and the 80% unemployed engineers of Bihar can look for job in Karnatka. Reminds me a funny cartoon I saw years ago, a laid off IBM employee is retraining to find a job in Detroit manufacturing and a laid off manufacturing worker from Detroit is retraining to find a job in IT/Software sector!

yeah , the point being "same level of unemployment" or opportunities to find job anywhere one would like.


Dipanker wrote:
But how does increasing the number of engineering colleges alleviates this problem ? It would only make it worse, won't it?


Well , it is the anomaly one has to live with but services do get better educated persons than 10th or 12 pas person and they tend to perform better. Not a good ssituation unless you change the job description and profile which would make 10th pass out of purview.
Dipanker wrote:

I will mostly agree with on this one, tragedy of Bihar has been that it hasn't had a good leader in a long time, and Laloo has been the biggest asshole of all.


Well less said the better about the convict.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby chaanakya » 19 Sep 2015 14:49

Dipanker wrote:

As per the documentary, Bihar has just 1% of the total national manufacturing/Industrial sector share.

As per wikipedia, Bihar economy is 22% agriculture, 5% manufacturing, and the rest 73% service.

Bihar currently has just 2 PSU, a refinary in Barauni, and railway wagon manufacturing at Muzzafarpur/Mokamah. The latter is quite small joint.

Largest public employer is of course Bihar govt. There is practically nothing in terms of big private investment.

Actually democracy can be used in such a situation to demand development. If you have more engineers graduating then the natural constituency for development would build up seeking job opportunities within the states . They will act as pressure group. Else 10th or 12th pass will have different aspirations. Anyway Biharis are too intelligent to be constrained by under development of the state and they find opportunities for study and employment. It would be better if they study and find the same within Bihar. It is same situation which TN and AP faced many moons ago when they had engg colleges but little job options either in Govt or pvt sector. So they migrated to USA etc.These bihari leaders would not have much option but to opt for development etc. May be i am hoping too much common sense from Bihar politicians.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby Raj » 19 Sep 2015 17:05

The below link gives the list approved engineering(technical) institutes for specific courses/shifts and the number of students that could be taken for that specific course.. Courses are mechanical, electrical, computer sciences etc.
http://www.aicte-india.org/misappengineering.php



Bihar it lists :-- 351.
Tamilnadu it is:--7767
Andhra Pradesh it is :--4359
Telangana:-- 4398
Karnataka:--3467
UP :-- 4142
Maharashtra:--5868
Uttarakhand:--553
West Bengal:-1278
Rajasthan:--1904
Punjab:-1621
Orissa:-1457
MP:--2334
Jharkhand:--272
Gujarat:-2027
Haryana:-2393
Delhi:--258

These numbers cannot be directly compared with each other though, because the number of students per course varies from one course to another and also from one institute to another. But it does give a rough order of magnitude.

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Re: Indian Economy News & Discussion - Aug 26 2015

Postby hanumadu » 19 Sep 2015 17:12

This thread needs a clean up. Of late, there is more cleaning up in this thread than relevant posts. Suraj bredator to the rescue once again!!


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