Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby deejay » 03 Nov 2015 22:54

Kumar Vinod wrote:Deal done at 10.8 billion?
Source : defence news


New Delhi, Nov 2 (UNI) In what could easily be said the biggest ever defence deal with Russia, India has stitched a contract to acquire S-400 anti-ballistic missile systems from Moscow at a cost of around Rs 70,000 crores (US $10.8 billion), top sources in the Defence Ministry said here today.

The modalities, including the price of deal and number of systems to be acquired, were agreed upon in the meeting of India-Russia Inter Governmental Commission on Military-Technical-Cooperation (IRIGC-MTC) which concluded today in Moscow, with Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar co-chairing it jointly with his Russian counterpart Sergei Shoigu.

The mega deal, along with an agreement to get another nuclear submarine, is likely to be formally signed during the visit to Russia of Prime Minister Narendra Modi, who would be travelling to Moscow sometime in December for an annual summit with President Vladimir Putin, the sources told UNI.


Thank you Kumar Vinod. So there are two deals. The mega deal and the nuke sub deal. it looks from this news that 10.8 billion USD is just for the S 400.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby member_29151 » 03 Nov 2015 22:57

May be S400 reduces the threat of a two front war closing Pakistan airspace as whole. So IAF may swing the might towards indo china border. S400 and LCA & LCH makes perfect for IA cold start doctrine. No aircraft will disturb within 300 kms at least. Now the big question is deployment of these systems with Akash , spyder and pechora etc. Seems Tigers is on the Move. :mrgreen: Or someone gave Ahuja Sir Book To MoD and Mr. Parrikar. :twisted: :twisted:

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby nachiket » 03 Nov 2015 23:36

Kumar Vinod wrote: Or someone gave Ahuja Sir Book To MoD and Mr. Parrikar. :twisted: :twisted:

I was reminded of the scenario from Vivek Ahuja's book as well. Chinese CJ-10s wreaking havoc on our airfields and other installations. And of course the layered overlapping deployment of S-300 systems in Tibet by the Chinese causing immense headaches to the IAF. Maybe our military brass are thinking along similar lines. But I'm still skeptical about the effectiveness of the S-400 (or any other system) in the mountains.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby JTull » 04 Nov 2015 02:53

Wtf, for $10B we were atleast getting the Rafale assembly line! Where is the Make in India motto now?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby ramana » 04 Nov 2015 02:56

its not a transaction. The French did not come thru other things.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby srai » 04 Nov 2015 05:12

deejay wrote:
Kumar Vinod wrote:Deal done at 10.8 billion?
Source : defence news


New Delhi, Nov 2 (UNI) In what could easily be said the biggest ever defence deal with Russia, India has stitched a contract to acquire S-400 anti-ballistic missile systems from Moscow at a cost of around Rs 70,000 crores (US $10.8 billion), top sources in the Defence Ministry said here today.

The modalities, including the price of deal and number of systems to be acquired, were agreed upon in the meeting of India-Russia Inter Governmental Commission on Military-Technical-Cooperation (IRIGC-MTC) which concluded today in Moscow, with Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar co-chairing it jointly with his Russian counterpart Sergei Shoigu.

The mega deal, along with an agreement to get another nuclear submarine, is likely to be formally signed during the visit to Russia of Prime Minister Narendra Modi, who would be travelling to Moscow sometime in December for an annual summit with President Vladimir Putin, the sources told UNI.


Thank you Kumar Vinod. So there are two deals. The mega deal and the nuke sub deal. it looks from this news that 10.8 billion USD is just for the S 400.


I doubt that much money is available to buy just one weapon system when there are huge "higher priority" acquisition requirements. DM pointed out recently that there wasn't enough money to spend on 126 Rafales plus get other priority items for the armed forces. A more affordable compromise of 36 is being negotiated.

Given the recent spew of news related to defense deals being finalized (but not signed yet) with Russia, that $11 billion combined for various weapon systems sounds more plausible. DM is in Russia to get all deals lined up for signing by Modi in December. This is a typical practice of the past where 10-year defense & strategic pact are included as part of a mega combined deal.

Let's look at all the deals in play:

  • 48 x Mi-17-V5 -> $1 billion+
  • 200 x Ka-226 LUH -> $1 billion+
  • 1 x SSN 10-year lease -> $1 billion+
  • 363-149 x BMP-II -> $150 million (plus another 1000+ units need MLU)
  • 4 x Kilo SSK MLU -> $700 million+
  • 26 x Il-76/78 MLU -> Rs 4,250 crore
  • 25 firing units x Pechora SAM digitization -> Rs. 1,800 crore
  • ? x SU-30MKI LCC -> better serviceability (plus Super MKI MLU on the works)
  • R&D x MTA -> revive it (original allocation agreement was for $300 million)
  • ? x FGFA -> Original India's share in FGFA development was $6 billion (part of the funds will need to be released or some direct number of units may be purchased)
  • ? x S-400 -> $500 million+ per battalion (comprising of 8 launchers, radars, command, etc) [as reported for up to 12 systems/battalions would put it around $6 billion mark; I've a feeling it may be less number of units than 12]

There may be others I missed.
Last edited by srai on 04 Nov 2015 08:05, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 04 Nov 2015 06:41

perhaps they deliberately went slow on rafale to land all these other deals.

OROP was another bolt from the blue which an overconfident BJP jumped on during election time and paid the price.

that MSC seems another boondoggle which should rather be addressed by more firepower accretion and not manpower raisings.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 04 Nov 2015 07:02

SA-3 digitization is "Buy Indian". Requires 30% local content.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby shiv » 04 Nov 2015 07:34

Other than Tweet by Saurav Jha there is total media silence on S-400. Need to wait

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 04 Nov 2015 07:47

UNI, Times of India have all posted on it.. only issue is of size of deal

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby shiv » 04 Nov 2015 08:00

Karan M wrote:UNI, Times of India have all posted on it.. only issue is of size of deal

Posted on it yes. I have not seen a single confirmation yet. A Google search for news 2 minutes ago still has words like "discussing" "to reach agreement"

Yes it seems likely but without knowing what the deal is, discussing the pricing is unrealistic.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Picklu » 04 Nov 2015 08:02

S-400 in all probability has an MSC component

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 04 Nov 2015 08:09

shiv wrote:
Karan M wrote:UNI, Times of India have all posted on it.. only issue is of size of deal

Posted on it yes. I have not seen a single confirmation yet. A Google search for news 2 minutes ago still has words like "discussing" "to reach agreement"

Yes it seems likely but without knowing what the deal is, discussing the pricing is unrealistic.


UNI is the one claiming it has been agreed. Also said its $10.8 Bn
TOI said 12 systems first, then 10.
Also what does a system mean?
A firing unit, battery aka battalion in russian parlance?

Anyways the PM will sign the deals in December so we have to wait till then for the details.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby member_29151 » 04 Nov 2015 08:46

News nation will have a report on s400 deal at 12.30 today. I hope they will clarify some points .

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Gyan » 04 Nov 2015 09:48

I think it might be USD 1.1 Billion and not 11 Billion.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby member_20453 » 04 Nov 2015 13:21

If the deal for S-400 is indeed for 11 billion, then we can easily have 12-13 Full Regiments.

Initial Regimental sets in Russia had 2 battalions & 4 batteries each, latest regimental sets now have 3 battalions. So a full regimental set is actually 3 battalions with 4 batteries (4 TELs + 4TLV) each as per Russian deliveries. Cost wise, regimental set of 2 battalions & 4 batteries each goes for 500 million, the Chinese ordered 6 such regiments for 3 billion, makes sense.
So a full regimental system of 3 battalions as is the case now in Russia will cost 750 million. This is the set-up that would make the most sense for India since it would allow 1 battalion in the regiment to play offensive during actual maneuvers and cover ground forces on the move, since a battery can be up to 100 km away from the command center. We can easily have 12-13 Full regiments for 9-9.75 billion plus another 1.25-2 billion for TOT, make in India, set-up of facilities etc.

13 regiments can easily cover all of India and Andaman.

https://russiandefpolicy.wordpress.com/tag/s-400/

I say go for it, cancel the Rafale deal and you can pay for it easier. On any given day this deal makes more sense than the Rafale. This will make India's airspace one of the most impregnable. Pakis are already shitting bricks at the news of this development. The Chinese too worry since this tones down any aggressive posturing they would like to have. We can expect all regiments to be up by 2025.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby member_20453 » 04 Nov 2015 13:30

Gyan wrote:I think it might be USD 1.1 Billion and not 11 Billion.


1.1 billion will buy you 1 full regiment of 3-4 battalions or 2 regiments of 2 battalions each.No way this deal so small, in such a case we can only protect Delhi and Mumbai. These will anyways be protected by AAD & PAD. NO, everything points to at least 12 systems being acquired to cover the entire country with it.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby member_20453 » 04 Nov 2015 13:38

I doubt that much money is available to buy just one weapon system when there are huge "higher priority" acquisition requirements. DM pointed out recently that there wasn't enough money to spend on 126 Rafales plus get other priority items for the armed forces. A more affordable compromise of 36 is being negotiated.

Given the recent spew of news related to defense deals being finalized (but not signed yet) with Russia, that $11 billion combined for various weapon systems sounds more plausible. DM is in Russia to get all deals lined up for signing by Modi in December. This is a typical practice of the past where 10-year defense & strategic pact are included as part of a mega combined deal.

Let's look at all the deals in play:

  • 48 x Mi-17-V5 -> $1 billion+
  • 200 x Ka-226 LUH -> $1 billion+
  • 1 x SSN 10-year lease -> $1 billion+
  • 363-149 x BMP-II -> $150 million (plus another 1000+ units need MLU)
  • 4 x Kilo SSK MLU -> $700 million+
  • 26 x Il-76/78 MLU -> Rs 4,250 crore
  • 25 firing units x Pechora SAM digitization -> Rs. 1,800 crore
  • ? x SU-30MKI LCC -> better serviceability (plus Super MKI MLU on the works)
  • R&D x MTA -> revive it (original allocation agreement was for $300 million)
  • ? x FGFA -> Original India's share in FGFA development was $6 billion (part of the funds will need to be released or some direct number of units may be purchased)
  • ? x S-400 -> $500 million+ per battalion (comprising of 8 launchers, radars, command, etc) [as reported for up to 12 systems/battalions would put it around $6 billion mark; I've a feeling it may be less number of units than 12]

There may be others I missed.[/quote]

Actually the deals in the list aren't really higher priority when you realize what 12 full regiments of S-400 offers. They can cancel the Rafale deal if they want to save money as it is an utter waste of money and brings no added advantage that more MKI can't. A large buy of S-400 is absolutely the best thing this Govt can do to buy us some time while LCA Tejas, PAKFA, AMCA get ready. As for the money, can easily be found, they just have to increase % of GDP being allocated to defense, long overdue IMO. We need to get that up to around 5% of GDP by 2020.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Austin » 04 Nov 2015 13:51

My bet is that if they go for outright purchase of S-400 system they wont go for a big all at once deal , They will procure few system for key cities , deploy and test operational suitability in Indian condition, integration etc and then gradually add more system over the years , thats how Indian defence procurement works !

They go for huge purchase if they intend to lic built most of it in India ....that would make larger purchase viable because they would indiginious as many things as possible and move toward Indian system eg TATA/Tatra trucks

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Yagnasri » 04 Nov 2015 14:05

May be a Bramos type arrangement can be worked out.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby tsarkar » 04 Nov 2015 14:25

What can S-400 do that MR-SAM cant?

(IAF MR-SAM is supposed to have a booster and longer ranged than IN LR-SAM. Ignore the nomenclature.)

BDL is investing in a factory (at Amravati?) for manufacturing these missiles.

Why invest in two systems?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby member_22539 » 04 Nov 2015 14:45

^

Saurav Jha ‏@SJha1618 6h6 hours ago
S-400 has to be linked to critical technology from the Russians above and beyond what they already agree to.


We might be getting some critical help somewhere else and this is the payoff they are demanding.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Austin » 04 Nov 2015 15:06

tsarkar wrote:What can S-400 do that MR-SAM cant?

(IAF MR-SAM is supposed to have a booster and longer ranged than IN LR-SAM. Ignore the nomenclature.)

BDL is investing in a factory (at Amravati?) for manufacturing these missiles.

Why invest in two systems?


I can think of couple of things over MRSAM

1 ) Range is ~ 400 km for Big Missile 40N6 , 48N6E3/E2 ( 250/200 km ) , 9M96E ( 120 km )
2 )Capable of intercepting IRBM target corresponding to range of 3500 km ( 4800 m/sec ) at altitude of 24 to 150+ Km endo and exo both ( which mean Shaheen/Gauhari can be under its effective range ) , plus cruise missile and other air breathing targets
3 )Can be deployed immediately if required
4 ) NFZ can be established deep inside pakistan keeping our system 100-150 km deep inside our territory.
5 ) Can compliment MR-SAM and Indian BMD system till the time they come up in adequate numbers
6 ) Perpahs involves some TOT that can spin off into Indian BMD systems under Dev

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby jayasimha » 04 Nov 2015 15:10

Manufacturer: number of Southeast Asian countries interested in buying the missile "Brahmos"

http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20151104/1313516444.html

BANGKOK, Nov. 4 - RIA Novosti. Several countries in Southeast Asia, including Thailand, Vietnam and Indonesia are interested in the purchase of Russian-Indian missile "Brahmos" - concrete negotiations have not yet started, told RIA Novosti on Wednesday, during the exhibition "Defense & Security-2015 "representative of the company's management" BrahMos Aerospace ".

"Southeast Asia is our promising region for this exhibition we have visited a number of senior representatives of the Ministry of Defense of Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, Vietnam and the Philippines. Formal negotiations have not yet underway, but there is a high probability that in the future they will become our customers' , - he said.

The interviewee noted that there is no clarity on the volume and shape the future performance of contracts, now "BrahMos Aerospace" is waiting for formal requests for the purchase of missiles from Asia-Pacific countries.

The missile "BrahMos" produced in 1998 created a joint Russian-Indian joint venture BrahMos Aerospace, named after the rivers Brahmaputra and Moskva. The company was founded India's Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and Russia "NPO Machine Building" (part of the corporation "Tactical Missiles").

"BrahMos" - a two-stage solid-fuel missile with a launch of the first stage, which propels it to supersonic speeds, after which she is separated. The missile has a range of up to 290 kilometers and during the flight maintains supersonic speed. Flight height can be up to 15 kilometers, and the lowest possible height - 10 meters. The missile carries conventional warheads weighing 200 to 300 kilograms, has an identical configuration for land, surface and submarine launchers (media).

Defense & Security Exhibition held in 2003, the theme of the exhibition - arms and military equipment for the Army, Navy and Air Force, non-lethal weapons, the latest developments to combat terrorism and other issues. This year's event will be visited by more than 100 delegations from 45 foreign countries.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby brar_w » 04 Nov 2015 15:16

Austin, Which missile in the S-400 family does exo-atmospheric intercepts?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Austin » 04 Nov 2015 15:42

brar_w wrote:Austin, Which missile in the S-400 family does exo-atmospheric intercepts?


Yes 40N6 recently inducted in mid 2015 , it got altitude of 185 km , they use the term near space for it

http://bastion-karpenko.ru/S-400/

03/13/2015 Russian Army adopted a new anti-aircraft missile in the complex military air defense S-300V4. We are talking about a rocket 40N6 with overseas interception of 400 km and is believed to have the ability to attack targets in near space. Testing and debugging of the rocket continued since 2008, and its appearance in the armed forces - a real breakthrough in the field of national defense. The fourth-generation air defense systems, S-400 (originally C-300PMU-3) and C-300V4 is to get adopted 40N6 missile with a range of 400 km line interception and 185 km altitude. It presupposes that the missile will be united for the army, and for the complex versions of the object that is its breakthrough. For the first time a rocket with an index 40N6 became known in the late 90s. Senior military officials have repeatedly made statements that the missile is about to go into service. However, in 2007 the first of the C-400 have taken up arms to free her. Most likely, the first demonstration of a new product samples were built at the beginning of 2009. The first components for the assembly of pre-series parts were fed to the plant is not earlier than the beginning of 2012, and the first flight tests 40N6 held in the summer of the same year. Production of the initial batch, according to the portal "Engineering News" started in November 2013th. According to some reports, state tests were difficult, which was due to the poor quality of products supplied by subcontractors. In addition, according to representatives of Concern "Almaz-Antey", and the refinery "Torch", expressed in interviews and semi-private conversations, one of the challenges was to achieve the desired height of the interception - 185 km.


https://www.rt.com/news/239961-near-spa ... e-defense/
http://tass.ru/en/russia/788221
Last edited by Austin on 04 Nov 2015 15:47, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Austin » 04 Nov 2015 15:43


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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Gyan » 04 Nov 2015 15:47

srai wrote:
Given the recent spew of news related to defense deals being finalized (but not signed yet) with Russia, that $11 billion combined for various weapon systems sounds more plausible. DM is in Russia to get all deals lined up for signing by Modi in December. This is a typical practice of the past where 10-year defense & strategic pact are included as part of a mega combined deal.

Let's look at all the deals in play:

  • 48 x Mi-17-V5 -> $1 billion+
  • 200 x Ka-226 LUH -> $1 billion+
  • 1 x SSN 10-year lease -> $1 billion+
  • 363-149 x BMP-II -> $150 million (plus another 1000+ units need MLU)
  • 4 x Kilo SSK MLU -> $700 million+
  • 26 x Il-76/78 MLU -> Rs 4,250 crore
  • 25 firing units x Pechora SAM digitization -> Rs. 1,800 crore
  • ? x SU-30MKI LCC -> better serviceability (plus Super MKI MLU on the works)
  • R&D x MTA -> revive it (original allocation agreement was for $300 million)
  • ? x FGFA -> Original India's share in FGFA development was $6 billion (part of the funds will need to be released or some direct number of units may be purchased)
  • ? x S-400 -> $500 million+ per battalion (comprising of 8 launchers, radars, command, etc) [as reported for up to 12 systems/battalions would put it around $6 billion mark; I've a feeling it may be less number of units than 12]

There may be others I missed.


Other possible deals are:-

Additional T-90s
BMP-2 Modernization
Additional Talwars
2 Additional Kilos etc

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Singha » 04 Nov 2015 16:24

there are two new SAMs with inert kinetic KVs that I posted on which will be fielded in the S400 and then S500. dedicated BMD weapons. might not be FOC yet.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby rkhanna » 04 Nov 2015 16:35

Where will this leave AAD/PAD?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby sudhan » 04 Nov 2015 16:41

Austin wrote:
brar_w wrote:Austin, Which missile in the S-400 family does exo-atmospheric intercepts?


Yes 40N6 recently inducted in mid 2015 , it got altitude of 185 km , they use the term near space for it

http://bastion-karpenko.ru/S-400/



AFAIK, the 40N6 does not carry a Kinetic kill warhead like the SM-3, which is needed for reliable exo-atmospheric intercepts.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby nirav » 04 Nov 2015 16:43

The S-400 is welcome news.

Can now troll Pakis, will shoot down fleeing Packee/PAF jets even over afghan/iranian airspace. :mrgreen:

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Austin » 04 Nov 2015 17:20

sudhan wrote:AFAIK, the 40N6 does not carry a Kinetic kill warhead like the SM-3, which is needed for reliable exo-atmospheric intercepts.


There is nothing unreliable or reliable , HTK system like PAC-3 , 9M96E carry small warhead and PDV carry warhead which exo system

The thing is with warhead/HTK you can afford a near miss but with inert/HTK you cant , the downside is you end up with slightly bigger interceptor , AFAIK even the European Aster system with ABM capability has warhead

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Singha » 04 Nov 2015 17:31

HTK method seems to be another khan thing that people automatically conclude as 'the best'

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Paul » 04 Nov 2015 19:00

If the S-400 can enable 2-3 squadrons of Sukhois to be redeployed from Uttarlai to the NE and Bagadogra, it would be a real potent force multiplier.

This could happen in a few years.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby asgkhan » 04 Nov 2015 19:08

Good jingoistic video.

The intro itself is quite illuminating on our neighbours.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sRiDsEqlbU

All props to zeenews.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby shiv » 04 Nov 2015 19:42

asgkhan wrote:Good jingoistic video.

The intro itself is quite illuminating on our neighbours.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sRiDsEqlbU

All props to zeenews.

Nice :D

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby tushar_m » 04 Nov 2015 20:08

the obvious reasons apart the most important development is that S400 will allow enough time for our LCA/AMCA to induct/develop & get integrated in IAF.

It is one of the best decision by IAF/MoD.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Kanson » 04 Nov 2015 21:07

What is the total combined order value of Akash SAM?

IA 2 regiments = 14,000 crore
IAF 1st order = 1,221 crore
IAF 2nd order = 4,279 crore (?)
------------
Total = 19,500 crore

The total cost of the order which includes hundreds of missiles is about Rs 19,500 crore, defence sources said.

Another report says,
The Director of the pivotal Defence R&D Laboratory (DRDL), A K Chakrabarti, confirmed to Business Standard during an exclusive visit to the Missile Complex that the Indian Air Force (IAF) and Army had already placed orders worth Rs 24,000 crore for Akash surface-to-air missiles.


Total value of Akash order is 19,500 or 24,000 crore ? Similarly, combined order value of MR-SAM/LR-SAM goes for more than 20,000 crores. Important note is these are not final figures; more orders will follow.

With this background, the figure 70,000 crore quoted for S-400 SAM doesn't look absurd.

Or, if we see the news involving two deals...
The mega deal, along with an agreement to get another nuclear submarine, is likely to be formally signed during the visit to Russia of Prime Minister Narendra Modi
then, 70,000 crore figure may be for both N-Sub and S-400.

http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 001_1.html
http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 646_1.html
http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 212_1.html
http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/bus ... 13537.html

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby srin » 04 Nov 2015 21:21

Even if you assume that the cost of a 10-year for nuke sub would be around $1b (INR 6500 crores), it is just a small proportion of the numbers being talked about. 70000 crores is a lot. There should be something else in there.


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