Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

All threads that are locked or marked for deletion will be moved to this forum. The topics will be cleared from this archive on the 1st and 16th of each month.
Locked
Sid
BRFite
Posts: 1657
Joined: 19 Mar 2006 13:26

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Sid »

So spice uses CCD/IR image for scene matching and it must be preloaded before the Op (like previous gen JDAM). Assume that GPS was jammed.

Now do we need to acquire new satellite system so fetch this information in the first place?
Lisa
BRFite
Posts: 1718
Joined: 04 May 2008 11:25

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Lisa »

tsarkar wrote:Posting from the above link in full
After developing a latest missile decoy system for fighter planes, the Defence Research and Development (DRDO) is now desperately scouting for a metal casing for the product. Available right in the backyard at Nagpur, the component is made in India, but not made for India. As a result, the agency is forced to look for other vendors in private sector, but has not succeeded so far.

Pune-based High Energy Materials Research Laboratory (HEMRL), a unit under DRDO, has put on display the latest infrared counter measure disruptive system (CDMS) at the Vignyan Bharti exhibition held at VNIT campus. The event is aimed at bringing industries and researchers together. The user trials of the CDMS have proven that the chemical composition, which diverts the missile attack, is fine, but the metal casing needs to be strengthened.

At present, Indian Air Force (IAF) is using the systems supplied by UK-based company Chemring Group. It has been learnt by the agency that the UK company buys the metal casings for its product from a Nagpur-based firm. A mid-sized unit, the company also caters to the ordnance factory and specializes in metallics. However, when approached by HEMRL, the local company has denied having any such product. Though it was reconfirmed by the agency’s own intelligence gathering and through the industry sources, that the casings used by Chemring’s product are from this firm only. The denial has forced HEMRL to look for a different manufacturer. Repeated parleys with the firm have failed, say sources who preferred not to disclose the local company’s name.

“This is a tricky situation,” say sources related to the affair. The company cannot be compelled to share the technology as it is already under a contractual obligation with the British firm. This is the reason it is believed to be so secretive on the matter. There are all chances that the British company may initiate legal action against the Indian supplier, which makes it as helpless as HEMRL in this case.

What looks like a small metal box is reported to be the latest missile decoy system developed indigenously. It diverts the attack of the heat seeking missiles which otherwise can accurately hit the target. The present system available with the IAF can be effective against second and third generation missiles. On other hand, the DRDO product is expected to be useful even when the fourth and fifth generation missiles are fired. However, DRDO cannot go ahead till it gets a stronger box to pack the material.

The second round of user trials has been delayed for almost two years now for want of the new casing. The earlier casing was also outsourced from a private vendor, who could not come up with a better version so far.

The trials were undertaken on aircraft like MIG 21, Jaguar, and Mirage 2000. Trials have proved that the DRDO system is better than the existing system used by the IAF. The casings have been made through impact extrusion technology. The existing product is reported to have been co-developed by Chemring and the city-based firm. It is likely that private industries coming to the exhibition may like to develop one.
In the US, some years ago, Rolls Royce BOUGHT Allison. They were forced to do the following,

"OSD agreed with the Air Force evaluation, but after four months of
assessments it concluded that safeguards could be put in place that
would allow Allison’s acquisition by Rolls-Royce to move forward.
These safeguards included an SSA that imposed restrictions on uncontrolled
transfers of information and technology between Allison
and Rolls-Royce. In addition, programs classified above Secret, as
well as the IHPTET and JAST programs, were placed in a separate,
newly created proxy company called Allison Advanced Development
Company, Inc. (AADC). This company was governed by a separate
proxy agreement, separate management, and additional security
procedures. Even visits between representatives of Rolls-Royce and
Allison and AADC required prior approval from the appropriate authorities
.
As a result, Allison and AADC became wholly owned subsidiaries
of Rolls-Royce"

And in India, an Indian company has more obligations to a foreign entity!
brar_w
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10694
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by brar_w »

RR and Allison was not the toughest one to get through. Many years ago, Lockheed bought a bunch of entities and divisions that collectively had a very high market share in the entire Pentagon's Electronic-Warfare research, and practically a monopoly on the higher end EW and Cyber EW R&D. BaE systems north America acquired these interests from Lockheed and with it practically a monopoly on EW R&D and production for 5th generation aircraft placing them in the top in that domain.
Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21233
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Prem »

IAF once mentioned they have mapped 5000 targets in Pakistan for initial attack to cripple them . If possible we should store thrice that many Spicewalas to make sure nothing valuable survive in that Islamist occupied Indian land.
kit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6278
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 18:16

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by kit »

tsarkar wrote:Posting from the above link in full
After developing a latest missile decoy system for fighter planes, the Defence Research and Development (DRDO) is now desperately scouting for a metal casing for the product. Available right in the backyard at Nagpur, the component is made in India, but not made for India. As a result, the agency is forced to look for other vendors in private sector, but has not succeeded so far.

Pune-based High Energy Materials Research Laboratory (HEMRL), a unit under DRDO, has put on display the latest infrared counter measure disruptive system (CDMS) at the Vignyan Bharti exhibition held at VNIT campus. The event is aimed at bringing industries and researchers together. The user trials of the CDMS have proven that the chemical composition, which diverts the missile attack, is fine, but the metal casing needs to be strengthened.

At present, Indian Air Force (IAF) is using the systems supplied by UK-based company Chemring Group. It has been learnt by the agency that the UK company buys the metal casings for its product from a Nagpur-based firm. A mid-sized unit, the company also caters to the ordnance factory and specializes in metallics. However, when approached by HEMRL, the local company has denied having any such product. Though it was reconfirmed by the agency’s own intelligence gathering and through the industry sources, that the casings used by Chemring’s product are from this firm only. The denial has forced HEMRL to look for a different manufacturer. Repeated parleys with the firm have failed, say sources who preferred not to disclose the local company’s name.

“This is a tricky situation,” say sources related to the affair. The company cannot be compelled to share the technology as it is already under a contractual obligation with the British firm. This is the reason it is believed to be so secretive on the matter. There are all chances that the British company may initiate legal action against the Indian supplier, which makes it as helpless as HEMRL in this case.

What looks like a small metal box is reported to be the latest missile decoy system developed indigenously. It diverts the attack of the heat seeking missiles which otherwise can accurately hit the target. The present system available with the IAF can be effective against second and third generation missiles. On other hand, the DRDO product is expected to be useful even when the fourth and fifth generation missiles are fired. However, DRDO cannot go ahead till it gets a stronger box to pack the material.

The second round of user trials has been delayed for almost two years now for want of the new casing. The earlier casing was also outsourced from a private vendor, who could not come up with a better version so far.

The trials were undertaken on aircraft like MIG 21, Jaguar, and Mirage 2000. Trials have proved that the DRDO system is better than the existing system used by the IAF. The casings have been made through impact extrusion technology. The existing product is reported to have been co-developed by Chemring and the city-based firm. It is likely that private industries coming to the exhibition may like to develop one.
In the US, some years ago, Rolls Royce BOUGHT Allison. They were forced to do the following,

"OSD agreed with the Air Force evaluation, but after four months of
assessments it concluded that safeguards could be put in place that
would allow Allison’s acquisition by Rolls-Royce to move forward.
These safeguards included an SSA that imposed restrictions on uncontrolled
transfers of information and technology between Allison
and Rolls-Royce. In addition, programs classified above Secret, as
well as the IHPTET and JAST programs, were placed in a separate,
newly created proxy company called Allison Advanced Development
Company, Inc. (AADC). This company was governed by a separate
proxy agreement, separate management, and additional security
procedures. Even visits between representatives of Rolls-Royce and
Allison and AADC required prior approval from the appropriate authorities
.
As a result, Allison and AADC became wholly owned subsidiaries
of Rolls-Royce"

And in India, an Indian company has more obligations to a foreign entity![/quote]


And there you have it ..any surprise why Dassault wants Reliance to produce the Rafales instead of HAL is precisely because they will have greater control over how the tech is used.. ( Read .. pay through your nose if you want to use any of their tech on any other product developed by any indian entity
NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19226
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by NRao »

And in India, an Indian company has more obligations to a foreign entity!
Well, it is possible that India has not caught up with the West and particularly the US on this. Dunno.

However, that one case seems that the Indian company did not have any security issues with their product. So, there were no restrictions and are currently governed by an agreement. Now the GoI can step in and make a case if they need to - spin off another company and let that spun entity deal within India under the protection of the GoI.

BTW there are Indian companies, in the US, that have dedicated areas for dealing with secure work with the US DOD. Nothing new. There are PLENTY of foreign companies: Accenture being perhaps the largest one (that I know of)
NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19226
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by NRao »

And there you have it ..any surprise why Dassault wants Reliance to produce the Rafales instead of HAL is precisely because they will have greater control over how the tech is used.. ( Read .. pay through your nose if you want to use any of their tech on any other product developed by any indian entity
Up to the GoI.

IF they deem it highly secure, then even Reliance should be made to bend. IF Reliance has an in somewhere, then it is a problem with the GoI.

None of these are Dassaults problem/issues. Every company will take advantage.
Lisa
BRFite
Posts: 1718
Joined: 04 May 2008 11:25

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Lisa »

NRao wrote:
And in India, an Indian company has more obligations to a foreign entity!
Well, it is possible that India has not caught up with the West and particularly the US on this. Dunno.

However, that one case seems that the Indian company did not have any security issues with their product. So, there were no restrictions and are currently governed by an agreement. Now the GoI can step in and make a case if they need to - spin off another company and let that spun entity deal within India under the protection of the GoI.

BTW there are Indian companies, in the US, that have dedicated areas for dealing with secure work with the US DOD. Nothing new. There are PLENTY of foreign companies: Accenture being perhaps the largest one (that I know of)
Nraoji,

This matter has nothing to do with catching up with the west. No contract, irrespective, can EVER supersede a national security need. In worst case scenario, you seize the company by nationalising it!
Viv S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5303
Joined: 03 Jan 2010 00:46

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Viv S »

tsarkar wrote:At present, Indian Air Force (IAF) is using the systems supplied by UK-based company Chemring Group. It has been learnt by the agency that the UK company buys the metal casings for its product from a Nagpur-based firm.
.
.
.
The company cannot be compelled to share the technology as it is already under a contractual obligation with the British firm. This is the reason it is believed to be so secretive on the matter. There are all chances that the British company may initiate legal action against the Indian supplier, which makes it as helpless as HEMRL in this case.
Its possible the Nagpur firm is manufacturing the casings with transferred technology from Chemring. Or in other words, that Chemring has 'outsourced' manufacture to India. That would explain why the Indian company is unwilling to sell directly to HAL - it would be in breach of contract.

And that being the case, the govt would be wise not to interfere and mess up an already existing 'Make-in-India' project.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by ramana »

What casings are these which are so unobtanium?

Any pictures or specs?
skaranam
BRFite
Posts: 294
Joined: 18 Feb 2006 07:11
Location: Bharat

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by skaranam »

JTull wrote:5000 units, of anything, should be produced in India! Absolutely no excuse to import them fully built. Often IAF orders are financing assembly lines abroad. Let's build it here!
Is the SPICE 250 is the only way to go? How about the Russian Way? Recently there was an article how Russia was able to convert all dumb bombs to smart by using certain components in the aircraft (these components were supposed to calculate the release point for the bomb to be dropped) - instead of mating every dumb bomb with a tail pack. Some post was mentioning it was similar to French DARIN upgrades.

Technology SITREP: How Russian engineering made the current operation in Syria possible
srai
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5249
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by srai »

^^^

That's standard nowadays.
  • Constantly Computed Impact Point (CCIP)
  • Continuously computed release point (CCRP)
To those you could add additional interfaces for more precision like with the Litening pod. In Russian case, they added GPS.

You can see LCA accuracy using dumb practice bombs:
Breaking on Tarmak007: Tejas 'bombs' Chitradurga test range

Image
Image
Last edited by srai on 12 Feb 2016 07:59, edited 1 time in total.
Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 20773
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Karan M »

Cosmo_R wrote:This Litening/Spice deal is where the FDI limit in defense starts to NOT make sense. Buying off the shelf is worse from an economic standpoint than 100% FDI and made in India. At least they have to employ Indians during the manufacturing process.

DRDO don't have the manpower let alone the R&D funding and direction. Sad but we not only import platforms and avionics, we also import bullets, rifles and bombs. We could just as well outsource defense to the Israelis.
FDI limits are on case by case basis. If Rafael chooses to make in India, then its case can be considered.

However as the chaff and flare story shows, there is a good reason, the FDI limit for general purposes makes a LOT of sense.

Our defence capabilities for strategic and many other high value items can be affected negatively by vested interests.
Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 20773
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Karan M »

skaranam wrote:
JTull wrote:5000 units, of anything, should be produced in India! Absolutely no excuse to import them fully built. Often IAF orders are financing assembly lines abroad. Let's build it here!
Is the SPICE 250 is the only way to go? How about the Russian Way? Recently there was an article how Russia was able to convert all dumb bombs to smart by using certain components in the aircraft (these components were supposed to calculate the release point for the bomb to be dropped) - instead of mating every dumb bomb with a tail pack. Some post was mentioning it was similar to French DARIN upgrades.

Technology SITREP: How Russian engineering made the current operation in Syria possible
There is a lot of hyperbole in the above article which just plays up old tech as being earth shattering (srai has the details in his post). SPICE is an entirely different league of capability.
Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 20773
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Karan M »

Viv S wrote:
tsarkar wrote:At present, Indian Air Force (IAF) is using the systems supplied by UK-based company Chemring Group. It has been learnt by the agency that the UK company buys the metal casings for its product from a Nagpur-based firm.
.
.
.
The company cannot be compelled to share the technology as it is already under a contractual obligation with the British firm. This is the reason it is believed to be so secretive on the matter. There are all chances that the British company may initiate legal action against the Indian supplier, which makes it as helpless as HEMRL in this case.
Its possible the Nagpur firm is manufacturing the casings with transferred technology from Chemring. Or in other words, that Chemring has 'outsourced' manufacture to India. That would explain why the Indian company is unwilling to sell directly to HAL - it would be in breach of contract.

And that being the case, the govt would be wise not to interfere and mess up an already existing 'Make-in-India' project.
Or it is a joint development as the report states and the Nagpur based company will not put its commercial work with Chemring under threat for a one off supply to the MOD without firm orders and/or significant compensation.
SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36424
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by SaiK »

nag ready for user induction trials

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... 108883.ece

what are we waiting for? this needs some more blessings.. and nag has to move on to next generation versions.
Cain Marko
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5352
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 10:26

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Cain Marko »

Does anyone know if an AAM ever being used as an A2S munition? I had read something to the effect of AIM 120 being used as such long time ago...
SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36424
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by SaiK »

should be possible if it is surface, as there are literally zero clutter. otoh, A2G would be an issue
soumik
BRFite
Posts: 133
Joined: 15 Jan 2009 21:01
Location: running away from ninja monkey asassins

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by soumik »

Gurus, Wiki says that in 2005 we started working with the Russians to develop the K100 as a 200-400km range AWACS killer to arm our Sukhois. Does anyone here know whether that collaboration yielded any fruit?
It's interesting to note that at the maximum quoted range of 400km the K100 outranges the detection range of the Pakistani ERIEYE by 50km
John
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3447
Joined: 03 Feb 2001 12:31

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by John »

^ It was proposed idea but the media spun it as a done deal. K100 is all but dead.
soumik
BRFite
Posts: 133
Joined: 15 Jan 2009 21:01
Location: running away from ninja monkey asassins

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by soumik »

And here I was imagining ERIEYEs blowing up as soon as they took off from Mushaf:P
Sid
BRFite
Posts: 1657
Joined: 19 Mar 2006 13:26

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Sid »

SaiK wrote:nag ready for user induction trials

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... 108883.ece

what are we waiting for? this needs some more blessings.. and nag has to move on to next generation versions.
So there will be another summer and winter trials?
Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 20773
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Karan M »

soumik wrote:Gurus, Wiki says that in 2005 we started working with the Russians to develop the K100 as a 200-400km range AWACS killer to arm our Sukhois. Does anyone here know whether that collaboration yielded any fruit?
It's interesting to note that at the maximum quoted range of 400km the K100 outranges the detection range of the Pakistani ERIEYE by 50km
Image
Aditya G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3565
Joined: 19 Feb 2002 12:31
Contact:

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Aditya G »

Karan,

The above missile is a different one compared to KS-172, which clearly never got anywhere:

Image

AFAIK KS-172 was an AAM derivative of an existing SAM, while RVV-BD is a differnet missile altogether
Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 20773
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Karan M »

The post meant the RVV-BD program supplants the KS-172 and is the new long arm of the Russian AAMs.
John
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3447
Joined: 03 Feb 2001 12:31

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by John »

Russians had many long range AAM projects and russia lost interest in K100 in 90s. Novatar was trying to jump start it by peddling it to foreign customers as JV. Even if missile was co devoloped i doubt Russians would have procured it.
Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 20773
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Karan M »

Russia didn't even procure the Brahmos and India was asking them to take that..
John
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3447
Joined: 03 Feb 2001 12:31

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by John »

Similar situation Russians have far too many new AshMs and to make things worse the Russian navy was not procuring many new vessels till now.

However Brahmos was pushed for by mainly Navy hence the project saw daylight and has been inducted successfully, where as IAF has been lagging when it comes to innovation and development and lets not even get into their procurement process.
Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 20773
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Karan M »

True. Hopefully things will change with LCA Mk1A and local AEW&C.
Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Singha »

I hate saying this but last 5 years it seems we have been sitting with our thumbs up our backsides and rest of world is moving on and events started gathering pace.

when the day of the dog dawns , the situation will be binary - you either have a shlong or you dont. there is not going to be any grey area. those in grey or nodong category will get splattered and rest will survive.

protos, POCs, demos, awaiting user trails, awaiting confirmatory trials, in process of induction, winter trials, monsoon trials , summer trials, awaiting some pindigenous part to replace import ... NONE of these are going to remotely impress anyone or be of any use on judgement day.

we need to put people in 3 shifts, spend whatever financial and political capital it takes to
- induct the Agni5 and Agni2AT in cansisters (atleast 100 of each)
- test new N-weapon designs
- get the 2 more arihant subs into service asap with K4
- produce ammo and artillery at 'web scale' as zuck would say
- air launched brahmos including one tipped with tactical nuke
- make a call if AAD/PAD is a PRODUCTizable or just a TD . if its a TD get something which works for a product.
- make an example out of someone not toeing our line in the near periphery to send a message to bigger players

a new order is dawning and we need to close gaps rather than wait like a sheep for the butcher to come along.
hanumadu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5168
Joined: 11 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by hanumadu »

^Didn't they build thousands and thousands of \hastily designed, poorly tested planes and fly them with poorly trained pilots (added later to make it clear) during world war 2? As an insurance, we should field at least some of our systems, even if they are half baked or far from perfect.
Last edited by hanumadu on 15 Feb 2016 19:42, edited 2 times in total.
Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Singha »

in WW2 planes went from drafting board to full production in between 100-300 days depending on the vendor. ie from drawing -> proto -> flying testbed -> FOC. that is what urgency implies.

in the final offensives around berlin, the russians put in some 300 guns per km of frontage for the 5-10 km of width identified for breakouts and their general staff was still unsure and shivering if that was enough. "walls of fire" were unleashed by these firing as fast as possible together , and the screaming noises of the katyushas from the back.

some footage here

minimum apologetic deterrence is a oxymoron.
KBDagha
BRFite
Posts: 160
Joined: 10 Dec 2005 21:47
Location: Mumbai

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by KBDagha »

Prithvi-ii-missile-successfully-test-fired :wink:

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 006905.cms
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25087
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by SSridhar »

Captive flight trials of anti-radiation missile soon - Y.Mallikarjun, The Hindu
Captive flight trials of an advanced, state-of-the-art Anti-Radiation Missile (ARM) are planned for April-May this year, and the maiden flight test by year-end by the missile technologists of the Defence Research and Development Organisation.

The air-to-surface tactical missile being developed by Defence Research and Development Laboratory (DRDL) will target the enemy’s air defence capabilities by attacking radars and communication facilities.

The range of the missile is 100 to 125 km and it will be mounted on combat aircraft Sukhoi (Su-30) and Tejas-Light Combat Aircraft.

The missile picks up the radiation or signals of radars and communication facilities and homes on to the targets to destroy them.

According to DRDO sources, scientists will evaluate the performance of the seeker, navigation and control system, structural capability and aerodynamic vibrations during the captive flight trials. These will be followed by ground testing and the missile will be fired from Su-30 during the actual flight trial by year-end. Instead of thrust propulsion, the missile uses dual pulse propulsion system as in the case of LR-SAM. The dual pulse propulsion will widen the envelope as well as the engagement capability of the missile. After coasting the missile for the required duration by firing the first pulse, the second pulse will be initiated just before interception of the target or during the terminal phase, the sources added.

The entire missile is being developed indigenously, including the seeker {The RCI-developed MMW seeker}. The missile will be inducted in about two years after conducting a number of developmental trials.

Only a few countries, including the U.S. and Germany, have ARMs at present, the sources added.

The dual pulse propulsion system could be configured with other air-to-surface and air-to-air missiles, the sources added.

Meanwhile, the induction of LR-SAM (Long Range Surface-to-Air Missile), jointly developed by India and Israel, will begin September-October this year. It was successfully test-fired from INS Kolkata to intercept an aerial target last year and the missile is slated to be launched from warships, INS Kochi and INS Chennai, for similar trials later this year.
Last edited by ramana on 18 Feb 2016 21:26, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: added bold. ramana
raghava
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 95
Joined: 29 Jul 2009 18:40

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by raghava »

SSridhar wrote:Captive flight trials of anti-radiation missile soon - Y.Mallikarjun, The Hindu
.
.
.
Only a few countries, including the U.S. and Germany, have ARMs at present, the sources added.

The dual pulse propulsion system could be configured with other air-to-surface and air-to-air missiles, the sources added.
IMVVHO above is also to be bolded.

My Baba Zarda paanwalla tells me that DRDO's smokeless Dual Pulse Rocket Propellant motor from the LRSAM project is a success and is figuring in a few future projects also. However these projects are still on the drawing board stage for now. Funding/go ahead is required/awaited. Now if only we can master seeker tech as well...!!!
Yagnasri
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10390
Joined: 29 May 2007 18:03

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Yagnasri »

All in time sir. As I have posted many times in Rafale thread. Money is limited and needed to put to good use. This is a case of good use. Slowly and steadily we are progressing. It is good that DRDO and others were supported in the efforts by all.
JTull
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3118
Joined: 18 Jul 2001 11:31

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by JTull »

SSridhar wrote:Captive flight trials of anti-radiation missile soon - Y.Mallikarjun, The Hindu
Having perfected dual-pulse propulsion with Astra and LRSAM, DRDO now seems to be able to quickly create these newer missiles.

I wonder about the origins the seeker. We never had an anti-radiation seeker before. Have we picked up some tips from Brahmos Mark-1, which had anti-radiation capabilities?
JTull
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3118
Joined: 18 Jul 2001 11:31

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by JTull »

Karan M wrote:
soumik wrote:Gurus, Wiki says that in 2005 we started working with the Russians to develop the K100 as a 200-400km range AWACS killer to arm our Sukhois. Does anyone here know whether that collaboration yielded any fruit?
It's interesting to note that at the maximum quoted range of 400km the K100 outranges the detection range of the Pakistani ERIEYE by 50km
I just wonder if a true AWACS killer can be built. Perhaps a long-legged AAM but not one with anti-radiation seeker. On one hand we praise AESA radars on fighters for their frequency agility and difficulty to counter, and on other hand we believe an anti-radiation missile will be able to lock on to the AWACS radar.

Added later:
These must be for the traditional AWACS using rotating PESA based radomes and with everyone moving on to AESA radars, these might become obsolete. It may be worth studying Harpy/Harop drones to know how they tackle land based AESA radars.
Last edited by JTull on 18 Feb 2016 13:06, edited 1 time in total.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by ramana »

SSridhar, In "Wings of Fire" Kalam garu hints at such an anti radiation missile to take out radar emitting threats. Part of tri-service role for Trishul.

Norman Friedman in his book on Navies of the world also suggests this AWACS killer role for the IGDMP products.
I was stumped at the precise range of 130 km he quoted as he must have looked at some power point charts.
And been scouring the literature.

Will give page number of WOF and implied inference tomorrow.
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25087
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by SSridhar »

ramana wrote:SSridhar, In "Wings of Fire" Kalam garu hints at such an anti radiation missile to take out radar emitting threats. Part of tri-service role for Trishul.
It was in c. 2013 that officially DRDO made an announcement on ARM. May be, they have been working on it for a while. Also, it was spoken of as liquid-propelled at that time, IIRC!
Locked