GDF isKersi D wrote:ramana wrote:
What is GDF ?
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewforum.php[/quote]
Says Link does not exist[/quote]
Kersi, I have your email. Will contact you there and we can discuss.
GDF isKersi D wrote:ramana wrote:
What is GDF ?
Currently there are three IAF Sqns operational:srai wrote:A good analysis of Indian SAM Network is here (2010). Good starting point since Akash would most likely fill in the void left by retiring Pechoras.Akshay Kapoor wrote:Guys I would love to do a analysis of where the these IAF Sqdns would be stationed. But purely wiki analysis of logical areas, no classified info or chaiwalla please. We know the first two are at Pune and Gwalior.
IMINT & Analysis: The Indian SAM Network
24 Pechora Squadrons deployments shown below. Note there are no deployment in the NorthEast!
Likely Akash Squadrons (2 + 6 + 7) deployments ... following Su-30MKI bases:
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India To Begin Flight Trials Of Anti-Radiation Missile
Aerospace Daily & Defense Report Mar 03, 2016
Jay Menon
NEW DELHI — India will begin flight trials of its advanced Anti-Radiation Missile (ARM) within the next two months.
The captive flight trials of the indigenously developed air-to-surface ARM will take place in April or May. At that time, “scientists will evaluate the performance of the seeker, navigation and control system, structural capability and aerodynamic vibrations,” an India Defense Research and Development Organization (DRDO) official says.
These will be followed by ground testing and the first free flight test by year’s end, he says.
Developed by DRDO, the tactical missile has a range of 100 km (62 mi.) to 125 km and will pick up radiation or signals of radars and communication facilities onto the targets to destroy them.
“Equipped with a dual pulse propulsion system, the missile is expected to have extensive engagement capability when compared to other missiles,” the official says.
The missile will be mounted on Sukhoi Su-30 and Tejas Light Combat Aircraft for the actual flight trials. It will be inducted after a number of development trials in the next two years, the official adds.
Only a handful of countries such as the U.S. and Germany currently possess the ARM with the capability to detect and attack a radar antenna or transmitter with minimal aircrew input. The ARM in use by the U.S. Air Force moves at the speed of more than Mach 2, propelled by a smokeless solid-propellant rocket motor.
Last year, a Long Range Surface-To-Air Missile (LR-SAM) jointly developed by India and Israel was successfully test-fired from INS Kolkata. Its induction will begin in September or October of this year.
Other projects being undertaken by the DRDO include the Astra air-to-air ballistic missile, which was successfully test-fired from a Su-30MKI fighter last May. The missile is expected to be completed by next December.
wow now thats a new one!Kartik wrote:From AW subscription
Other projects being undertaken by the DRDO include the Astra air-to-air ballistic missile , which was successfully test-fired from a Su-30MKI fighter last May. The missile is expected to be completed by next December.
Russian have the right the export Yakhont and it is GOI that is not permitting Brahmos export I had already posted Dr Pillai interview where he says GOI is not in favour of exporting Brahmos in near future. http://www.aspillai.com/news.php?nid=49Karan M wrote:He keeos reiterating right spirit of partnersbip etc. Do the Russians think of all that when they export the all russian yakhont??
I get your point but that part is answered by Dr Sudhir , if India were to 100 % indiginise Brahmos then there is no point in having a JV.Karan M wrote:Missed the point completely. I said "all Russian Yakhont". The Russians care two hoots about " right spirit of partnership" whereas the gent above is busy defending not indigenizing the motor. If DRDO has a plan to do so and he cant talk about it, then he should have said right now we cant look at it. Instead of busily defending JV this, JV that. He is even concerned about putting in an Indian seeker at a point, and brings up JV. At this rate, we will be tied to Russia's apron strings forever.
In that case you renegotiate the JV terms , you cant get both ways right ? You either stick by the agreement , re-negotiate or cancel JV and go it alone , I see what Sudhir is trying to say and I also get your point.Karan M wrote:^^ Why should we do all that? Indigenize the motor and make an Indian Brahmos equivalent over time. You are already giving them more business with Brahmos-M, Brahmos-NG. His statements are contradictory. We have a seeker program underway.. which can be used for all missiles but.. for Brahmos, we have a JV we need to give workshare to Russia... then motor, he completely states no attempt at indigenization is underway... simple question should be, is your mandate to give money to Russia or make in India? He seems to be very worried that Russia may actually stop cooperating though he says the opposite.. hence the complete defense of Russian needs. This just shows our vulnerability.
Buddy , looks its not like India is afraid to do or that in this case ( when it comes to Pakistan I can agree with you )Karan M wrote:Why renegotiate? Focus on Brahmos-NG and Brahmos-M. Make a Brahmos equivalent locally. China just did this.
http://i59.tinypic.com/14lq541.jpg
It seems India is very afraid they "lose access" so they don't do anything. Does China behave like this? They care two hoots. They will make a Chinese J-11 and at the same time, point out to Russia they paid for SK/SM licensing. India I think is very much into "at this we can do this onlee mindset" with khadi gramudyog funding. If for instance, Sudhir saar knew there was a huge program underway at multiple places at India to make a liquid ramjet engine, then would he be bothered so much with Russia?
At this rate, if one screw fails in the motor we have to run back to Russia.
Even otherwise we only do things locally if "price is too much", i.e. $200 Million for Brahmos integration with Su-30.
This mindset of external reliance which is "Cheap" in short term is our biggest issue.
I have seen them getting displayed at AI on many occasion , probably the logistics of getting it to Goa for the first time its held thereNeela wrote:is there a security or safety reason why Brahmos isn't shown in action in IronFist2016?
For the same reason why they would not show a Prithvi or an Agni being launched. You can see the launch but the missile has to fly out of Rajasthan and land somewhere. I know that there are great places for missiles to land across the Rajasthan border, but that cannot be shown or seen by the guests. Iron Fist is more about showing munitions hitting targets rather than launching of munitions. The Astra launch only this year was a one-off.Neela wrote:is there a security or safety reason why Brahmos isn't shown in action in IronFist2016?
Hi vcsekhar,vcsekhar wrote:I read this report and thought that something was off in the reporting.
Earlier this month i had attended a DRDO vendor meet where they were asking for SME's to come forward to make parts for their missile projects. The numbers estimated for the Akash system are 30 per month presently and moving to 50-60 per month by the end of the year. It was also interesting to note that the cost of the actual missile is less than 20% of the cost of the systems.
There are multiple private companies that have been given responsibility for large sub-assembly production so that BDL can increase final assembly rates.
All of the currently missile systems LRSAM, MRSAM, AKASH etc are in going to be in full scale production very soon. The amount of work done by DRDO is just phenomenal and they have taken the right track of collaborating when required (not reinventing the wheel) and developing themselves when tech already exists.
Surely there is a minimum range within which the missile can function . We needn;t put VIPs in harms way but video-feeds and projecting it to large screens are alternatives.shiv wrote:For the same reason why they would not show a Prithvi or an Agni being launched. You can see the launch but the missile has to fly out of Rajasthan and land somewhere. I know that there are great places for missiles to land across the Rajasthan border, but that cannot be shown or seen by the guests. Iron Fist is more about showing munitions hitting targets rather than launching of munitions. The Astra launch only this year was a one-off.Neela wrote:is there a security or safety reason why Brahmos isn't shown in action in IronFist2016?
This is a second major article/attack on NGARM. The first one was idiotic and claimed that NGRAM weighed 140kg, now this article has improved that version by stating that it is 140% of the intended weight and the range is lower i.e. only 60km against intended 100km. Now my version:-jayasimha wrote:http://www.strategypage.com/%5Chtmw%5Ch ... 60401.aspx
Air Weapons: India Tries To Survive A Broken ARM
April 1, 2016: The Indian Air Force has gone public with the problems it is having with a new ARM (Anti-radiation missile) being developed for them by DRDO (India's Defence Research and Development Organization). The NGARM (New Generation Anti-Radiation Missile) is larger and 40 percent heavier than the air force specified and it is still uncertain that it will work. NGARM has a range of 60 kilometres and is meant to replace the Anglo-French Martel, a 1980s design that weighs 550 kg (1,210 pounds) and even with updated electronics is inferior to the American AGM-88 HARM, which the Indian Air Force wants to buy 1,500 of. That will not be possible if the government insists on the air force using NGARM, which will not be available until 2019 at the earliest.
Bullshitjayasimha wrote: dont know how much is true or false
I wouldn't trust anything from strategy page unless its a reproduction with the original source referenced. There is also no point in throwing around range figures for an ARM since ARM-based targeting is usually not kinematically limited (range) but rather limited by the ability to pin-point emitters, establish feedback loop and make sure that the right emitter is being targeted amidst a host of countermeasures. ARM range is also dependent on how well it is integrated onto the platform employing it hence the USAF's delaying tactics on the -88E. Also, the article gets an important piece of technical 'googleable' information wrong : The AGM-88E is not the HARM but the AARGM (Different weapon, by a different OEM).jayasimha wrote:http://www.strategypage.com/%5Chtmw%5Ch ... 60401.aspx
Air Weapons: India Tries To Survive A Broken ARM
April 1, 2016: The Indian Air Force has gone public with the problems it is having with a new ARM (Anti-radiation missile) being developed for them by DRDO (India's Defense Research and Development Organization). The NGARM (New Generation Anti-Radiation Missile) is larger and 40 percent heavier than the air force specified and it is still uncertain that it will work. NGARM has a range of 60 kilometers and is meant to replace the Anglo-French Martel, a 1980s design that weighs 550 kg (1,210 pounds) and even with updated electronics is inferior to the American AGM-88 HARM, which the Indian Air Force wants to buy 1,500 of. That will not be possible if the government insists on the air force using NGARM, which will not be available until 2019 at the earliest.
The Indian Air Force wants the AGM-88E which weighs 361 kg (794 pounds) and can detect and attack targets more than 150 kilometers away while travelling at a speed of 2,450 kilometers per hour. The AGM-88E can transmit a picture of the target, just before it is hit, so the user can be certain of what was taken out. The AGM-88E was developed jointly by U.S. and Italian firms. The original 1960s anti-radiation missile (ARM) quickly evolved into the HARM. Currently, there are orders for over 2,000 AGM-88E/Fs from the U.S. Navy and Marine Corps, Italy, and Germany. Over 24,000 AGM-88s, of all types, have been produced since the 1980s.
DRDO is a network of 51 weapons and technology laboratories, employing over 30,000 people (20 percent of them scientists and engineers.) DRDO has been screwing up Indian weapons development programs for half a century. Efforts to shape up DRDO have consistently failed. It's all about politics (DRDO provides jobs for well-connected people) and nationalism (India wants to produce its own high tech weapons.) DRDO has failed in most all areas (small arms, tanks, missiles and warplanes). The failures have grown over the years, and created louder calls for reforms. DRDO has had some successes, which it publicizes as energetically as it can. It tries to play down the failures, or simply tout them as partial successes. But compared to defense industries in other nations, DRDO is an underperformer, and highly resistant to reform.
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dont know how much is true or false
Fear for what exactly? And it certainly aint so in the missile, radar, shipbuilding areas. Why do these fears only exist in Airforce and Army?Karan M wrote:Austin, of course its fear. If India was least bothered about whether xyz would give it a new weapon and confident it would pay extra to entice folks, then it would just reverse engineer or modify as it saw fit. That requires effort. Our entire structure is dedicated to taking the easy path and cheap path so they will behave like obedient schooboys.