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Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

All threads that are locked or marked for deletion will be moved to this forum. The topics will be cleared from this archive on the 1st and 16th of each month.
ramana
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby ramana » 03 May 2017 04:44

We still need to wait for May 3/ May4 test which is different NOTAM area.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby SSSalvi » 03 May 2017 05:08

^
^
^
The ' First One ' is clearly Chandipur Range and different than the current that is under discussion.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Gagan » 03 May 2017 07:46

Launch from Car Nicobar from near the airbase up north
Impact on Trak Island, south

Missile flies over tillanchong / isle of man, does a sharp maneuver to the right and imacts on trak

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby rohitvats » 03 May 2017 17:21

From Twitter:

ADG PI - INDIAN ARMY‏Verified account @adgpi 3h3 hours ago
Sapta Shakti Comd & Strike 1 Corps #IndianArmy launches #Brahmos Block- III Msl in operational configuration from A&N Islands.#BrahmosIndia


https://twitter.com/adgpi/status/859689476863528960

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Austin » 03 May 2017 17:39

Sandeep‏ @SandeepUnnithan

Stunning terminal phase pix of Brahmos Block III missile. CEP of less than 1 m. Nicobar isl. Ground launcher.May 2

Image

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby malushahi » 03 May 2017 18:00

just for perspective - that is all the gas lighting up (no warhead). imagine the kaboom with the masala packed in.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby malushahi » 03 May 2017 18:08

rohitvats wrote:Sapta Shakti Comd & Strike 1 Corps #IndianArmy launches #Brahmos Block- III M


block3 and I-corps?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby shiv » 03 May 2017 18:22

malushahi wrote:just for perspective - that is all the gas lighting up (no warhead). imagine the kaboom with the masala packed in.

What gas?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby JayS » 03 May 2017 18:49

Austin wrote:Sandeep‏ @SandeepUnnithan

Stunning terminal phase pix of Brahmos Block III missile. CEP of less than 1 m. Nicobar isl. Ground launcher.May 2

Image


So someone on twitter was pointing out that the clouds in picture 1 and 2 above do not look consistent. Any thoughts on this...??

Could be pictures of two different tests with two separate missiles, perhaps??

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Singha » 03 May 2017 19:08

Thrre are 2 yr old videos also on youtube of past tests

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby malushahi » 03 May 2017 19:09

shiv wrote:
malushahi wrote:just for perspective - that is all the gas lighting up (no warhead). imagine the kaboom with the masala packed in.

What gas?


kerosene

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby shiv » 03 May 2017 19:17

malushahi wrote:
shiv wrote:What gas?


kerosene

OK Thanks. But I think that is the warhead exploding. We don't know if it was HE or FAE.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby malushahi » 03 May 2017 19:24

missiles tests are predominantly conducted with inert warheads, unless it is to test a warhead.

in which case the test will happen 2,000 miles to the north-west.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby shiv » 03 May 2017 20:17

malushahi wrote:missiles tests are predominantly conducted with inert warheads, unless it is to test a warhead.

in which case the test will happen 2,000 miles to the north-west.


This one looks like a live warhead test to me. None of the other inert warhead videos I have seen shows such a huge plume. They too must have had some fuel. Incidentally, does Brahmos use kerosene fuel?

Either way Not a big issue. I think that plume represents a live warhead test. If you don't think so I am quite happy to let the matter rest. We are free to have our views on a matter pending better information

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Singha » 03 May 2017 20:21

Even if inert warhead the kerosene will go up in fireball

For really neat inert action look for a video of icbm mirv impacting on soil...no unburned fuel...i will try to dig it up..
And those mirvs are mach20 or more

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby uddu » 03 May 2017 20:26

JayS wrote:So someone on twitter was pointing out that the clouds in picture 1 and 2 above do not look consistent. Any thoughts on this...??

Could be pictures of two different tests with two separate missiles, perhaps??


The second picture is just zoomed in or cut in such a way that explosion part is given importance..hence the variation in clouds.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Singha » 03 May 2017 20:30

https://youtu.be/Y5ov5Uz5bpk

Mirv reentry...gotterdamerung

Found the video i wanted
https://youtu.be/o8n59S8j2C0

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby shiv » 03 May 2017 20:31

Singha wrote:Even if inert warhead the kerosene will go up in fireball

For really neat inert action look for a video of icbm mirv impacting on soil...no unburned fuel...i will try to dig it up..
And those mirvs are mach20 or more

Not doubting that. But I still think this is a live warhead and not fuel fireball. There are at least 2 videos of Brahmos hitting targets and going through but no fireball and I find it difficult to make up explanations. It's a damn missile test. By the user. Not DRDO. The user missile has a live warhead on and it explodes. Its that simple No need to come up with convoluted explanations "Oh its only fuel, because they had an inert warhead"

Here the Brahmos goes through a damn wall and how come the fuel did not want to explode? That is inert
https://youtu.be/UNG86VSld3s?t=149
Last edited by shiv on 03 May 2017 20:34, edited 2 times in total.

ramana
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby ramana » 03 May 2017 20:32

So someone on twitter was pointing out that the clouds in picture 1 and 2 above do not look consistent. Any thoughts on this...??

Could be pictures of two different tests with two separate missiles, perhaps??



Tell them so far DRDO and Indian Army has never faked any tests.
Maybe they would like to stand under the missile to verify its accuracy?

Too many doubting Thomases.

Yes its test of Brahmos Block III with I Corps aka Strike Corps.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karthik S » 03 May 2017 20:33

It's an ER version, if they tested for max range, how much fuel will be left to cause such a fireball?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karthik S » 03 May 2017 20:34

ramana wrote:Maybe they would like to stand under the missile to verify its accuracy?


:lol:

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby shiv » 03 May 2017 20:36

Watch the entire Brahmos video and see what real inert Brahmos looks like and explain why remaining fuel did not explode.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby ramana » 03 May 2017 20:37

Karthik,

ER test would be by DRDO not by IA.
This is an operational test by the user community and the specific unit, I Corps, has been identified.
Please read the press handout.
No need for speculation which add to swirl.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby JayS » 03 May 2017 20:40

ramana wrote:
So someone on twitter was pointing out that the clouds in picture 1 and 2 above do not look consistent. Any thoughts on this...??

Could be pictures of two different tests with two separate missiles, perhaps??



Tell them so far DRDO and Indian Army has never faked any tests.
Maybe they would like to stand under the missile to verify its accuracy?

Too many doubting Thomases.

Yes its test of Brahmos Block III with I Corps aka Strike Corps.

Nah. The guy was not doubting the authenticity of tests. Let it be, its too stupid.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby shiv » 03 May 2017 20:41

This is two tests. First looks like an inert test with the missile literally throwing a wall of sand towards the sea. The next test is a live warhead
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SixYAjO6O8
Last edited by shiv on 03 May 2017 20:50, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby JayS » 03 May 2017 20:42

shiv wrote:
malushahi wrote:missiles tests are predominantly conducted with inert warheads, unless it is to test a warhead.

in which case the test will happen 2,000 miles to the north-west.


This one looks like a live warhead test to me. None of the other inert warhead videos I have seen shows such a huge plume. They too must have had some fuel. Incidentally, does Brahmos use kerosene fuel?

Either way Not a big issue. I think that plume represents a live warhead test. If you don't think so I am quite happy to let the matter rest. We are free to have our views on a matter pending better information


The test was done in operational configuration. There is no reason to remove warhead. This is clearly a warhead. Other test hits, there are so many videos including the one you posted, showing no fireball at all when there is no warhead.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby shiv » 03 May 2017 20:47

JayS wrote:
The test was done in operational configuration. There is no reason to remove warhead. This is clearly a warhead.


P.r.e.c.i.s.e.l.y.

Here's another fireball if anyone wants to see one
https://youtu.be/zl48bwYBDfA?t=211

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karthik S » 03 May 2017 20:47

Ramana garu, livefist mentioned it as ER.

Livefist‏ @livefist 5h5 hours ago
FIRST PHOTOS: The Indian Army 1 Strike Corps' BrahMos Block III extended range test at the Andaman & Nicobar islands yesterday.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Pratyush » 03 May 2017 20:51

JayS wrote:
Austin wrote:Sandeep‏ @SandeepUnnithan

Stunning terminal phase pix of Brahmos Block III missile. CEP of less than 1 m. Nicobar isl. Ground launcher.May 2

Image


So someone on twitter was pointing out that the clouds in picture 1 and 2 above do not look consistent. Any thoughts on this...??

Could be pictures of two different tests with two separate missiles, perhaps??


The explosion image is cropped in. That is why the clouds appear to be different. You can observe this with the back ground vegetation as well.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby malushahi » 03 May 2017 20:57

the missile went through the target in that video.

very unlike the vertical dive where the missile buries/disintegrates into the ground.

here is another vertical dive test from 2015.

i have mapped the notam area above, which is smallish for an er-version. there is mention of the impact point in one of the articles i have posted above (130kms away from the 2 likely launch points). maybe that will give you an idea of the residual fuel on impact.

the user cannot fire live ordnance into an "environmentally-sensitive" area, no matter who. they have other ranges to test live ordnance. heck, they cannot build a road without the said ministry snipping their tails. the moef sat on this range for over a decade for good reasons.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Singha » 03 May 2017 21:02

+120 to malushahi :)

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karthik S » 03 May 2017 21:06

malushahi wrote:the missile went through the target in that video.

very unlike the vertical dive where the missile buries/disintegrates into the ground.

here is another vertical dive test from 2015.

i have mapped the notam area above, which is smallish for an er-version. there is mention of the impact point in one of the articles i have posted above (130kms away from the 2 likely launch points). maybe that will give you an idea of the residual fuel on impact.

the user cannot fire live ordnance into an "environmentally-sensitive" area, no matter who. they have other ranges to test live ordnance. heck, they cannot build a road without the said ministry snipping their tails. the moef sat on this range for over a decade for good reasons.


I don't see a fireball on May 8 test but there is one on May 9.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby malushahi » 03 May 2017 21:15

the fireball will depend on the residual fuel at the time of impact. the second test could have much more fuel left than the first one.

the real question is whether live ordnance can be fired into that range. from one of the articles i have posted above:
However, a project that entails setting up temporary structures for test-firing dummy missiles in Tillachong, an island where a sanctuary devoted to the Nicobar scrubfowl is located, is still pending with the NBWL.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby shiv » 03 May 2017 21:20

Sorry. I don't buy this residual fuel stuff. That was a live warhead fired by the army. I am out of this pointless discussion but I did not want to let a wild theory circulate without pointing out that it may not be the truth. I now need to do that on another thread too. :D
Last edited by shiv on 03 May 2017 21:35, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby malushahi » 03 May 2017 21:35

btw, that is a pretty puny fireball for 3 mil a pop.

from the video posted above, why would they have a separate section specifically for "Combat Firing" (at 2:48), if all of the preceding tests were with live warheads? in fact here is a test where the missile exited without detonating inside the vessel's hull (0:36).

now that ("Combat Firing") is a badass explosion on a full-fledged vessel (every bit a 3 mil worth). no flimsy targets to fly through.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby shiv » 03 May 2017 21:44

It is a 300 kg warhead burying itself in the sand and exploding in the sand. Maybe you need to see some other live explosions to see how small they actually look. It is easy to be coloured by huge Hollywood fireballs.

KAB 500
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYrE2EMzN4Y

Multiple munitions including 1000 pounders from Jags
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfwUxnjPQeI

100 kg bombs. 26 of them
https://youtu.be/6UktvbWMJmI?t=125

250 kg bombs with the usual "puny" explosion
https://youtu.be/w3vxKOn6hPM?t=109

Hollywood explosions are much, much better

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8H218PfruI
Last edited by ramana on 03 May 2017 22:27, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby rohitvats » 03 May 2017 22:11

malushahi wrote:
rohitvats wrote:Sapta Shakti Comd & Strike 1 Corps #IndianArmy launches #Brahmos Block- III M


block3 and I-corps?


:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Wonderful, isn't it? 42 Artillery Division of 1 Strike Corps would be holding these beauties. Great capability addition to the Army.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby JayS » 03 May 2017 22:17

malushahi wrote:
the user cannot fire live ordnance into an "environmentally-sensitive" area, no matter who. they have other ranges to test live ordnance. heck, they cannot build a road without the said ministry snipping their tails. the moef sat on this range for over a decade for good reasons.


I would think all the permissions would have already been taken when the area was designated as test range, with specifications for how big explosions in what areas and all. I doubt they would go and take permissions for each test individually.

Building road, is a different project and would need clearance. Apple vs oranges.

Current govt is too liberal in giving env clearances for many projects, not just defense. Previous was too stringent for they wanted Jayanti Tax for all projects.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby shiv » 03 May 2017 22:21

Hilarious that someone is thought to be wagging a finger and saying "TNT explosion? NO! Fuel explosion? Sure, be my guest. I know they are puny like fuel-air explosives."

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby JayS » 03 May 2017 22:23

malushahi wrote:the fireball will depend on the residual fuel at the time of impact. the second test could have much more fuel left than the first one.

the real question is whether live ordnance can be fired into that range. from one of the articles i have posted above:
However, a project that entails setting up temporary structures for test-firing dummy missiles in Tillachong, an island where a sanctuary devoted to the Nicobar scrubfowl is located, is still pending with the NBWL.


Residual fuel does come into picture, yes. But who knows how much in this particular case. Do we know for sure that this is the largest size of the explosion and not before or after that when the size was at its max..?? Guess its not very prudent to discuss too much based on only a picture, too little info.

I am out of this discussion.


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