Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

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darshhan
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby darshhan » 07 May 2017 17:08

Singha wrote:Looks like they make metal shells of various missiles and may be one of many sme given the job to build scale.
While not exactly tfta it must be ok if the integrators like bel bdl and rci are ok with their output.

Not everything needs electronic industry stds


Actually if you analyse carefully, a clean machining room is an oxymoron.

darshhan
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby darshhan » 07 May 2017 17:13

And if this vendor somehow manages to sustain a dustfree environment, he will never be able win a drdo/dpsu tender in competitive bidding. His airconditioning costs alone will ensure that he is never L1.

Karan M
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 07 May 2017 17:23

Marten wrote:Some of the images on the pressto site are disturbing. The workshop is definitely not a dust free environment. They appear to be working with fiberglass dummies for fabricating launcher frames? The structures are already rusty and no pictures of treatment before painting... In one of the pics, you can see bhajjis next to the missile. :eek: Sorry to say, but this is classic Khadi Gram udyog. Machining and finishing could be better given some help and training. Even in Peenya, one could see better work done for local Indian firms.


They are just a model making plant. Nothing that requires dust free super special care IMHO.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Marten » 07 May 2017 18:25

Does no one understand satire or does the post also have to include scooter helmets to make full sense. Also mentioned bhajjis and Khadi gram udyog and yet... Sigh!

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby jamwal » 07 May 2017 19:21

Marten wrote:Does no one understand satire or does the post also have to include scooter helmets to make full sense. Also mentioned bhajjis and Khadi gram udyog and yet... Sigh!



After spending so much time on interwebs, you still don't realise how sarcasm and satire are hard to understand here ?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Marten » 07 May 2017 19:36

True JJ, but this is BRF, where mention of upper hand itself is usually enough.

darshhan
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby darshhan » 07 May 2017 19:59

Marten wrote:Does no one understand satire or does the post also have to include scooter helmets to make full sense. Also mentioned bhajjis and Khadi gram udyog and yet... Sigh!


So we just got made. :)

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby JayS » 07 May 2017 20:31

Marten wrote:Does no one understand satire or does the post also have to include scooter helmets to make full sense. Also mentioned bhajjis and Khadi gram udyog and yet... Sigh!


May be you should have mentioned the yellow and crooked teeth of the workers.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby manjgu » 07 May 2017 21:03

and the stains of banarsi paan..

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby shiv » 07 May 2017 21:08

Ignorance comes pouring out of this forum. Does no one know that Onion bhajjis absorb dust and bacteria and keep the environment clean?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Neela » 07 May 2017 21:24

Ok...hexy missile pic ...hope this is pleasing for your eyes.



Image

Karan M
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 07 May 2017 22:25

SRai wonderful find btw.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Prasad » 07 May 2017 23:32

Name her Nagma and be done with it. Sounds close enough.
{runs away before ramana saar comes with a danda}

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Thakur_B » 08 May 2017 05:48

Gyan wrote:Hopefully it was not Astra itself incorrectly labeled NGRAM?


Image

Nah, pretty similar to the image from NAL documents from 2013 long speculated to be of NGARM.
Image

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby ramana » 08 May 2017 10:21

Looks like slow weekend. No more criticising a model shop for lacking clean room stds.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Gyan » 08 May 2017 10:30

Is there any open source material to claim that NGARM missile will be generic with various variants like IR, ARS etc?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Yagnasri » 08 May 2017 12:01

Neela wrote:Ok...hexy missile pic ...hope this is pleasing for your eyes.


She is not Nagma. She is Disco Shanthi. Wife of actor Sri Hari and both of them now dead due to ill health. Said to be a good lady and did dance jobs as she had a large and poor family to support.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karthik S » 08 May 2017 18:29

https://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/03 ... vs-up.html

Three months ago, India’s Nirbhay cruise missile was destroyed mid-flight after an electro-mechanical failure made it roll dangerously with half-opened wings. The roll glitched out the missile’s intertial navigation system, sending it careening out of its notified flight envelope and forcing the test team on ground to push the kill switch. As scientists work to clear up problems bedeviling the crucial long-range weapon effort, a related development is understood to be showing fresh promise, and could soon be a direct part of the Nirbhay: the Indian-built Manik mini turbofan engine, intended to power production series Nirbhay cruise missiles.

Almost exactly a year ago, DRDO chief S. Christopher witnessed a test run demonstration of the Manik turbofan at the DRDO’s Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) in Bengaluru. In March 2015, Defence Secretary G. Mohan Kumar was shown the engine switched on. It was in November 2014 that the mini turbofan engine was christened Manik.

Livefist has learnt that the Nirbhay cruise missile, currently powered by an NPO Saturn 36MT turbofan, will next be tested in the May-June period using a turbojet engine. While the GTRE has been mandated with proving the Manik turbofan by the time the Nirbhay’s other flight systems are proven, top sources confirm a Nirbhay test powered by a Manik engine could take place by the end of next year. The Manik turbofan has been under rigirous ground and high power tests for over two years now, and scientists are understood to be satisfied with progress. Current activity includes work spread between GTRE and the National Aerospace Laboratory. At the latter’s Propulsion Division, Manik components including its fan, centrifugal compressor, high pressure and low pressure turbines and alternator are under test.

At 425 kgF (kilogram-force) of thrust, scientists are working to reduce the Manik turbofan’s current 110 kilogram total weight. The engine makes major use of the Mishra Dhatu Nigam-developed MDN 321 special steel and special indigenous alloys.
Significantly, the GTRE isn’t fully equipped to test the Manik and is working fast to add test capabilities and infrastructure. This was borne out yesterday in the defence standing committee’s report to Parliament, where the MoD made the following admission:

“The existing Fan & Compressor Test Facility at Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) has inadequate capacity and has become obsolete. To carry out testing of Fan & Compressor for existing and future generation gas turbine engine programmes of GTRE, it is essential to have a dedicated Fan & Compressor test facility at GTRE. GTRE is working out the budgetary cost of this facility to be established ‘on turnkey basis’ with an objective to initiate EPC approval by end of Oct 2016.”

The report further details aggressive plans to beef up a non-existent engine development and validation ecosystem in South India:

“The design improvement and validation of aero engine components and modules through testing is a continuous activity to enhance and demonstrate engine performance and reliability. At present, only limited aerodynamic and structural testing can be conducted within the country. Hence, the required component testing facilities at an estimated cost of Rs.1330 crore are planned to be established by DRDO at Rajanakunte, Bengaluru for development of Ghatak engine and all future generation aero engines.”

In addition, the DRDO is reported to be planning a twin test cell at GTRE to carry out ‘performance testing of gas turbine engines upto 130 kN thrust class’, which includes all versions of the Kaveri engine, including the dry version being developed for the Ghatak stealth UCAV. The bolstering of gas turbine development and testing infrastructure is belated but very welcome: it amplifies a recognition that India is willing to invest in one of the toughest areas of military science, one that has tormented the most advanced nations, and is currently harrowing China too.

But the Nirbhay isn’t the end game, as it were. Livefist learns the Manik turbofan will also power the DRDO’s secretive Long Range Cruise Missile (LRCM), a weapon project revealed first here on Livefist in 2010. Top DRDO sources reveal the LRCM, currently still in a configuration phase, will involve a three-stage power system: a booster to put the missile in the air, the Manik turbofan to power the LRCM through its 1,000-km cruise phase and, finally, a ramjet engine that will push the LRCM into supersonic endgame towards its target. The full-fledged project is being spearheaded by the Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE) and Defence Research and Development Laboratory (DRDL).


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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby jamwal » 08 May 2017 18:36

Noice, very noice ! Last para about LRCM is very interesting.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby shiv » 08 May 2017 19:29

Karthik S wrote:
“The existing Fan & Compressor Test Facility at Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) has inadequate capacity and has become obsolete. To carry out testing of Fan & Compressor for existing and future generation gas turbine engine programmes of GTRE, it is essential to have a dedicated Fan & Compressor test facility at GTRE. GTRE is working out the budgetary cost of this facility to be established ‘on turnkey basis’ with an objective to initiate EPC approval by end of Oct 2016.”

The report further details aggressive plans to beef up a non-existent engine development and validation ecosystem in South India:.



Shows that my father's generation and my generation have immense experience in sitting with both thumbs in our musharrafs. GTRE was established in 1959. More than fif-friggin-ty years ago.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Singha » 08 May 2017 19:52

There is even more sleep place called hal gas turbine division. I believe all they do is service rr orpheus turbines used as captive power plant on ongc offshore rigs.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby sudhan » 08 May 2017 20:40

Karthik S wrote:https://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/03/exclusive-crucial-engine-for-indias-cruise-missiles-revs-up.html


But the Nirbhay isn’t the end game, as it were. Livefist learns the Manik turbofan will also power the DRDO’s secretive Long Range Cruise Missile (LRCM), a weapon project revealed first here on Livefist in 2010. Top DRDO sources reveal the LRCM, currently still in a configuration phase, will involve a three-stage power system: a booster to put the missile in the air, the Manik turbofan to power the LRCM through its 1,000-km cruise phase and, finally, a ramjet engine that will push the LRCM into supersonic endgame towards its target. The full-fledged project is being spearheaded by the Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE) and Defence Research and Development Laboratory (DRDL).



So there will a Solid booster to get it air-borne, then turbofan propulsion, then another solid booster to get the ramjet running followed by the ramjet itself? Wonder how the fuel will be handled for the Turbofan and the ramjet.. So many questions!!!

Going to be complex and interesting!.. Good luck DRDO!

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby ramana » 09 May 2017 00:28

If you look at the thrust/weight (T/W) ratio (425/110) the Manik is already a very good engine. trying to reduce the weight makes it more complex and expensive.
GTRE and ADE should use the current Manik for Nirbhay and any future weight reductions in future programs.
This eternal search for the perfect will cause endless delays to the already delayed Nirbhay program.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby hnair » 09 May 2017 08:09

sudhan wrote:
So there will a Solid booster to get it air-borne, then turbofan propulsion, then another solid booster to get the ramjet running followed by the ramjet itself? Wonder how the fuel will be handled for the Turbofan and the ramjet.. So many questions!!!

Going to be complex and interesting!.. Good luck DRDO!

The terminal ramjet would not need a booster. It is lit at speed when turbofan has imparted required speed.

Although whether manik intakes work as ramjet scoops like SR71's variable cycle engines
or will ramjet be on a separate stage like Klub's terminal torpedos is going to be interesting to watch

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Yagnasri » 09 May 2017 08:14

Did not club have some sort arrangement just like that?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby SSridhar » 09 May 2017 08:30

The Nirbhay also has air-launched & submarine-launched versions. But, it has to first fly consistently.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby sudhan » 09 May 2017 10:44

hnair wrote:The terminal ramjet would not need a booster. It is lit at speed when turbofan has imparted required speed.

Although whether manik intakes work as ramjet scoops like SR71's variable cycle engines
or will ramjet be on a separate stage like Klub's terminal torpedos is going to be interesting to watch


Shouldn't the article be flying supersonic for the ramjet to start operations? Or does high subsonic suffice?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby sudhan » 09 May 2017 10:46

Yagnasri wrote:Did not club have some sort arrangement just like that?


I believe it has an additional solid motor to propel it to supersonic speeds. Not a ramjet for sure..

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Philip » 10 May 2017 13:35

Was this spotted earlier? A titbit from LF on another ER version of BMos.

https://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/03 ... eapon.html
As reported earlier here on Livefist, a ‘final’ BrahMos version, sporting a range of over 900 km, will complete modifications and be ready for a first test by the end of 2019. This was make the BrahMos one of the most formidable stand-off weapon systems in the world, especially when seen in the context of its ship-based, air-launched and submarine-launched versions. Livefist can confirm that the range extension will be sported by all variants of the missile system.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Bheeshma » 11 May 2017 23:35

I never saw this article on BR before so am posting the link. The author is Ex- DG Army Air Defence.

http://www.vifindia.org/article/2017/ja ... o-strength

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby arun » 12 May 2017 10:53

kurup wrote:
arun wrote:NAVAREA Warning out for a bunch of days.
May 8, May 9, May 11, May 12 and May 17.

Good to the see the Hydrobharat website back in action.

Any guess what manner of beastie is being tested :?:

.................{Rest Snipped}...................



Something within a 100 km range ........... Intersting shape of warning area .... never seen such a one .

Image



The above NAVAREA Warning was for this test of the SPYDER system :?:

Spyder surface to air missile test fired

'Spyder' surface-to-air missile test fired

By PTI | May 11, 2017, 10.26 PM IST

BALASORE (ODISHA): India today test fired 'Spyder' surface-to-air missile from a test range in Odisha as part of a series of tests of the short-range quick reaction missile.

The trial was carried out for validating various parameters of the sophisticated weapon system to further strengthen its air defence system, official sources here said. .....................

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby sudhan » 12 May 2017 11:22

^^There was also the Derby missile test by our pup, LCA..

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby srai » 12 May 2017 13:35

Image

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Philip » 12 May 2017 17:45

Off the record,has the LCA finished its gun/vibration tests or have we abandoned the gun for the LCA?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby prasannasimha » 12 May 2017 18:29

Gun as far as I know has already been tested on the goround and there were some firing tests in Pokhran as per reports.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby ashvani » 13 May 2017 19:13

Does anyone has information on Man Portable Nag Missile development status?

Also, what is the expected production quantity of this missile after successful development?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby ashishvikas » 13 May 2017 20:35

DRDO QR-SAM system with 6 cannisters onboard Ashok Leyland Super Stallion 8x8 HMV

https://t.co/DUhlT656HU


Exclusive video of DRDO QR-SAM. Enjoy!

https://twitter.com/Nexoft000/status/863417601896140800
Last edited by ashishvikas on 13 May 2017 21:10, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Marten » 13 May 2017 20:37

This appears to be from the Ferguson College grounds in Pune. Can anyone confirm?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby ashishvikas » 13 May 2017 21:09

Marten wrote:This appears to be from the Ferguson College grounds in Pune. Can anyone confirm?


Yes Sir.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 14 May 2017 01:08

^^ Desi design ingenuity at its best. Instead of making expensive VLS type systems with consequent challenges regarding missile size and weight, they have made a six system launcher with each in a module/canister (easy to replace) on a turntable.
The QRSAM radar is also similar desi-one of a type design, with multiple faced AESA radar on a single platform for speedy target detection and track initiation.

Its good to see DRDO thinking for itself and coming up with its own carefully considered solutions as versus the PRC's clone the Russians and Americans approach.


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