Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

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NRao
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby NRao » 13 Oct 2015 14:47

With 400km range, why cover only Delhi/Mumbai?

Place a couple along the border and pretty much cover all of Pakistan up to around 400kms, ensuring they do not even take off. ??????

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby sudhan » 13 Oct 2015 15:56

^^ The 400km interceptor will be quite expensive, makes no sense to waste it on piddly bundars but to save it for their Karakoram eagles and IL78s and render them effectively useless. Their strategic assets will be forced up their strategic depth, so to speak. Also that LR interceptor probably is not agile enough for fighters, the 9M96E2 will be better suited to run down the Solahs and the bundars.

What will be interesting to see is how the IAF will deploy the S400s with the existing and upcoming system. I foresee a truly shalwar browning situation for the pakis when they face an invisible fortress with the S400, LRSAM, AKASH and SPYDER forming the walls, all centrally networked with radars all over the country. A truly awe-inspiring sight that would be..

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby vaibhav.n » 13 Oct 2015 16:37

Even if an acquisition of the S400 is considered it will likely be limited by its high costs. A single battery is rumored to cost upto 500 million $. That said it is a very powerful system and much better value for money than those Rafales.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby uddu » 13 Oct 2015 16:52

The article says India may purchase and a proposal send by the IAF. I do feel that the IAF will be asked to go ahead with the AAD which do have a range of 200km.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby srai » 13 Oct 2015 16:55

Austin wrote:...
S-400 has 4 missile in its list

9M96E - Range 40 Km , Alt - 20 Km , ARH Homing HTK System , Against Air Breathing Target and MRBM class Missile ( 1000 km Range ) Naval Variant
9M96E1 - Range 125 km , Alt - 30 km , ARH Homing HTK System ,Against Air Breathing Target and MRBM class Missile ( 1000 km Range ) Naval Variant
48N6DM - Range 250 km , Alt 30-35 Km , SAGG Guidance , Against IRBM Target with range of 3000 km ( 4.8 km/sec ) , Air Breathing Target
40N6 - Range 400-450 km , Alt - 185 km , ARH Guidance , Against IRBM target with range of 3500 km ( 5 km/sec ) , Air Breathing Target
...



9M96E -> Akash Mk.1/2
9M96E1 -> Barak 8/ER

MRBM -> PAD/PDV, AAD
IRBM -> AD-1, AD-2

Usefulness of 250/400km SAM is debatable. For the most part, their ability would be limited to high-altitude slow non-maneuvering aircraft without good ECCM suite. I'm sure they would be able to shoot down an airliner but until they can shoot down NATO AWACS at those ranges I'll remain a skeptic.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby deejay » 13 Oct 2015 17:04

Yes Srai ji, absolutely.

I am not clear as to why S 400? Uber, latest, greatest, etc, etc come to mind.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 13 Oct 2015 17:10

The key advantage of the S-300PMU/V series has been their mobility and all in one packaging for multiple ranges. Which also means high costs and logistics chain complexity. The mobility means limitations on overall capability. Check the LRTR aperture versus what's on the S-300, there is simply no comparison. A huge AESA versus a mobile PESA with a smaller aperture - which is better against a whole variety of "future" threats.

IAF asking for S-400 is IMO usual "get it now" ask, which is usual from their POV.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 13 Oct 2015 17:18

sudhan wrote:Karan ji, I agree... Will delete my post lest it gives some dumbo ideas..


Thanks for your understanding and graciousness.

What will be interesting to see is how the IAF will deploy the S400s with the existing and upcoming system. I foresee a truly shalwar browning situation for the pakis when they face an invisible fortress with the S400, LRSAM, AKASH and SPYDER forming the walls, all centrally networked with radars all over the country. A truly awe-inspiring sight that would be..


True, networking will be an issue though. Akash and MRSAM have been built with IAF requirements in mind, so they should be ok from day 1. SpyDer and most definitely S-400 may have challenges.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 13 Oct 2015 17:20

vaibhav.n wrote:Even if an acquisition of the S400 is considered it will likely be limited by its high costs. A single battery is rumored to cost upto 500 million $. That said it is a very powerful system and much better value for money than those Rafales.


Lets see, at $500 Mn - you could get 4 Rafales or around 8 Su-30s. But at the end of the day a SAM system is basically defensive, when deployed aggressively it can exclude certain aircraft from its zone but it has limitations in terms of reach and self protection too. Whereas a fighter is more of an offensive, flexible system. Strike or interception.. so not exactly apples to oranges.
Last edited by Karan M on 13 Oct 2015 17:21, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Austin » 13 Oct 2015 17:21

srai wrote:9M96E -> Akash Mk.1/2


Akash uses Command Guidance mode so its closest comptitor would be BUK-M1/2 , BUK uses though SARH.

9M96E1 -> Barak 8/ER


Yes

MRBM -> PAD/PDV, AAD
IRBM -> AD-1, AD-2


Agreed , I am not the one who supports buying S-400 or any imported system , I have said in previous post its better to support Indian System like VLRSAM


Usefulness of 250/400km SAM is debatable. For the most part, their ability would be limited to high-altitude slow non-maneuvering aircraft without good ECCM suite. I'm sure they would be able to shoot down an airliner but until they can shoot down NATO AWACS at those ranges I'll remain a skeptic.


They can ofcourse shoot but it all depends on the Targets Speed ,Manouvering capability etc range is a function of trajectory a SAM takes.

Most country dont need such long range SAM because the distance they need to defend is not huge , Russia is a huge country and with not many Airbases in many parts a LR SAM is more useful for their environment , its like cheaper option to defend an airspace rather then have huge squadron of airplane do the same job which are ubber expensive

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby uddu » 13 Oct 2015 17:22

Two years before there was a news about a 150km SAM being developed by DRDO.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 13 Oct 2015 17:23

Austin wrote:Akash uses Command Guidance mode so its closest comptitor would be BUK-M1/2 , BUK uses though SARH.


Well, both need their GB radar to cue them throughout, and the Akash's radar is basically powerful enough to cue it in close. Basically, its the function, range, envelope which really matter versus what was used to implement it. Eg SLAMRAAM would also theoretically fall in Akash category even though its ARH.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Paul » 13 Oct 2015 17:29

Typically Indian armed forces like to buy a foreign system to benchmark the performance of local systems in dev. S400 will at best protect a narrow belt Delhi - Punjab border. PAD/AD1 etc. are still at least 15 years away from deployment.

The rest of the country has to be defended by desi maal.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby shiv » 13 Oct 2015 20:27

Who says India is going to buy the S-400? The little knowledge I have about these things tells me that the radar is as important as the missile. How are we going to integrate the S-400 radar with existing Indian radar network? Are the Russkies going to bend over backwards and create compatibility?

Somehow I don;t believe this S-400 story. But I am a sceptic. I often don't believe things that turn out to be true later. Let's see.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Austin » 13 Oct 2015 22:05

shiv wrote:Who says India is going to buy the S-400? The little knowledge I have about these things tells me that the radar is as important as the missile. How are we going to integrate the S-400 radar with existing Indian radar network? Are the Russkies going to bend over backwards and create compatibility?

Somehow I don;t believe this S-400 story. But I am a sceptic. I often don't believe things that turn out to be true later. Let's see.


The integration is done much the same way you integrate a Israel GP , French AESA , Israel or Russian radar , they get the interface specification and then use it to build systems that sensor fuse these data either to give a single picture and/or integrated systems

IN has been doing such integration for many years using Dutch Radar , Russian FC and Indian systems and those these things were not even digital.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 14 Oct 2015 00:02

Its not that easy, Austin. The IAF had a tough time even integrating the ST-68 U/M (S-300 radar which we used as MPR) into its radar netting software network (before to IACCS). If the S-400 is designed for Russian network interface and not common software standards, then there is an issue.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby srai » 14 Oct 2015 01:47

^^^

Like the S-300 ST-68 radar purchase, maybe this one is also purchase of only S-400 radars but not missiles.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby shiv » 14 Oct 2015 05:31

Karan M wrote:IAF asking for S-400 is IMO usual "get it now" ask, which is usual from their POV.

So far I have only seen one news item from Sputniknews saying IAF wants S400. I simply don't believe it.

That news could be designed to make the Chinese buy something from Russia but the Russians were too cheap to pay reuters to spread then news to 200 Indian news portals in reuters' pocket

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Thakur_B » 14 Oct 2015 06:03

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/t ... 755271.ece

More hints that Brahmos-2 will be reusable.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby prabhug » 14 Oct 2015 10:54

Wiki says russian S400 missile to be 4.8km(48H6E3/48H6E2) per second but american standard SM to be MAC 3.5 .Does american missile lag russians so much or there is some error in the specification. IS there something else with american system such a (mac 3.5) missile is enough ???

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby SSridhar » 14 Oct 2015 11:27

Bharat Dynamics Ltd. to take on a bigger role - The Hindu
Excerpts
Recently, BDL successfully test-fired its first-ever designed and developed second generation anti-tank guided missile, Amogha-1, which has a range of 2.8 km. BDL was planning to equip it with an Infra-red (IR) seeker and make it more “contemporary,” Mr. Singh said.

He said the design has been completed for another new missile-- a land attack missile, which could use different types of warheads, for a range of eight km. It would be basically a bunker-destroying missile and could also be used for attacking tanks. The missile would be ready in three years, he added.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Aditya_V » 14 Oct 2015 12:19

SSridhar wrote:Bharat Dynamics Ltd. to take on a bigger role - The Hindu
Excerpts
Recently, BDL successfully test-fired its first-ever designed and developed second generation anti-tank guided missile, Amogha-1, which has a range of 2.8 km. BDL was planning to equip it with an Infra-red (IR) seeker and make it more “contemporary,” Mr. Singh said.

He said the design has been completed for another new missile-- a land attack missile, which could use different types of warheads, for a range of eight km. It would be basically a bunker-destroying missile and could also be used for attacking tanks. The missile would be ready in three years, he added.


Wish we produce in numbers, would be very useful in LOC violations with Anti material rifles and this, the Paki Raakit mards after a few skirmishes will place themselves 3km behind.


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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby member_20453 » 14 Oct 2015 14:05

The S-400 deal should go ahead, its a far better investment than the Rafale, for 9 billion we can easily have 12-14 regiments of the S-400. A regimental set has 2 firing sets, each firing set with 12 launchers of 4 missiles i.e 48 missiles. If indeed the order is for 12 regimental sets. That would mean 1152 missiles ready to fire with additional reloads.

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/ ... stem-china

With simple check on daft logic and distances, I can see for instance that a single regiment can cover all of Kashmir. With careful placement of the battalions and batteries in overlapping arcs across states and playing mix-match with 400/250/120 km missiles, 12 Regiments is more than enough to cover all of India and Andaman. Combined with Spyder ADA, Akash, Barak NG, PAD/AAD for Major Cities, Indian airspace becomes virtually impenetrable.

Also when placed in the Western & Eastern theater, it would allow us to swat enemy birds, IRBMS, UAVS, cruise missiles well with-in their own territory. PAD/AAD can be used to defend Tier-1/2 cities.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby srai » 14 Oct 2015 15:18

^^^

Fantasy world?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby rohitvats » 14 Oct 2015 16:41

srai wrote:^^^

Like the S-300 ST-68 radar purchase, maybe this one is also purchase of only S-400 radars but not missiles.


ST-68 radars are generally part of Transportable Radar Units (TRU) of the IAF. Which is quite self explanatory.

We've recently started getting the Israeli EL/M 2084 'Arudhra' from Israel as the main Medium Power Radar. While these have been set-up in static role, these are perfectly capable of cross-country mobility. This MPR will be followed by DRDO MPR of the same name.

So, I see no reason to use radar from S-400 SAM system for TRU role.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby member_20453 » 14 Oct 2015 16:45

srai wrote:^^^

Fantasy world?


Well more like speculative. The size of a regiment in Russia is quite big just as mentioned. Now what needs to be clarified is if we are getting 12 battalions or 12 regiments.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby shiv » 14 Oct 2015 16:54

Septimus P. wrote:The S-400 deal should go ahead

What S-400 deal?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby member_20453 » 14 Oct 2015 17:04

^^^^

Well the upcoming deal let's say. Correction, it appears a typical Russia regimental set has 2 fire units of 12 launchers i.e. 48 missiles per unit & 96 missiles per regimental set. An order for 12 regiments would have 1152 missiles ready to fire with I think at least double the number in reloads. Either way would be a good deal is it comes through.

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/ ... stem-china

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 14 Oct 2015 19:10

Shiv wrote:So far I have only seen one news item from Sputniknews saying IAF wants S400. I simply don't believe it.

That news could be designed to make the Chinese buy something from Russia but the Russians were too cheap to pay reuters to spread then news to 200 Indian news portals in reuters' pocket



The original report is from Rajat Pandit. He has contacts in MOD who supply him procurement info which he then passes off with his own adjectives - anything imported is "formidable", "powerful" etc. Of course anything local is worthy of running down. Original DDM in a nutshell.
But his MOD contacts do tell him what we are buying etc. In this case, the S-400 is going before DAC. As memory serves, that is the first stage, Defence AcquisitioN Council, final would be CCS - Cabinet Committee on State Security, which approves a purchase. So a ways to go yet.
Coming to whether the news is credible, Pandit apart, I would think it is. I have been reading about different components of the S-3/400 being evaluated, IAF interest in it for a while now, from Indian sources. Not the BMD part, but the radars etc. The S-400 first started getting hawked to India around 2012. Before that in the 1990s, we evaluated the S-300VM but decided to develop our own BMD system.
Anyways, the Chinese are unlikely to be influenced by any Reuters wagehra report. They are very interested in the S-400 aka S-300 PMU3, because they are already S-300 PMU1/PMU-2 customers and use it as their primary AD system against Taiwan & also to create a ring of steel around Beijing (where their fatcats are). They have some 40 batteries of the S-300 PMU/PMU1/PMU2 per reports, and a local variant is the HQ-9 which is basically Chinese radars with a reverse engineered missile (but not as capable). IMO it speaks volumes that the PRC is still buying S-3XX/S-4XX in bulk despite claimed successes in the HQ-X series.

The main thing about the S-4XX system is that its very powerful (range of capabilities within a single system) and very survivable (high power radars, and comprehensive ECCM - supposedly, plus high mobility). These attributes make it the gold standard of SAM systems even today and hence its the primary threat for which the US started seriously looking at, and implementing VLO/LO platforms. Of course, the Russians have done more to take some of those advantages away.

In short, I can very well see why the IAF would be interested. Apart from the perceived knock to indigenous development (usual IAF practice of buying whats OTS at high price and cribbing about local development soaking funds, as Shri Tyagi did apart), my basic concern about anything Russian is serviceability. The IAF uses things intensively, it tends to order in small order amounts (to maximize its yearly capex across multiple heads), Russians take a long time to get things on this front cleared and that means spares support takes a knock.
Ironically though this may be less of a concern because the huge Chinese orders for the S-3XX system have kept the factories running happily and parts availability wouldn't be a concern.
On the less positive side, the Chinese will know a lot about the S-400 system. After all, they operate it. We should insist on, if we do purchase this, non standard radars which the PRC don't have but which Russia has, hopefully keeping some part of our target to shoot chain secure and still serviceable.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 14 Oct 2015 21:40

Meanwhile liar in chief, Prasoon is as usual lurking on this forum and has sought to combine multiple discussions that we had here, into one post cooking up a story of ELTA UHF radar with S-400s (moron doesn't even understand the raison de etre of S-400 is its mobility and the ELTA UHF is a static huge system), making up some story about DRDO, IAF and everyone to drive his loony fanbase nuts. What a chap, has no sense of shame or sense whatsoever.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby brar_w » 14 Oct 2015 21:54

Karan M wrote:Meanwhile liar in chief, Prasoon is as usual lurking on this forum and has sought to combine multiple discussions that we had here, into one post cooking up a story of ELTA UHF radar with S-400s (moron doesn't even understand the raison de etre of S-400 is its mobility and the ELTA UHF is a static huge system), making up some story about DRDO, IAF and everyone to drive his loony fanbase nuts. What a chap, has no sense of shame or sense whatsoever.



I don't know who the chap is but if he is referring to IAI's Ultra series is scalable by adjusting the number of C-blocks. They have both mobility, and fixed site long range surveillance in mind with the system.



Combining radars, and missiles not designed to exist with one another is going to be one battle-management integration task indeed!

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 14 Oct 2015 23:41

He's just making stuff up.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby rohitvats » 15 Oct 2015 13:03

I think we need to take a more detailed look at this supposed S-400 purchase.

A good indication of how such a long range missile is deployed comes from looking at deployment by the Chinese.

The major role of such a system is to keep hostile aircraft a very long distance away from the protected target. While the ingress route to such a target might well be covered with own airfield(s) and attendant AD squadrons, a system like this is to tackle the enemy in space between this outer protective ring and intended target.

The massive range of the radar and missile translates into 360 degree long range coverage of the protected area. So, in case of Delhi, a single regiment with 2-4 distributed batteries of S-400 can cover it from threats which might sneak in between the ring of bases in Punjab, Haryana and Rajasthan.

Using Google Earth tells you that there is a 200 - 300 km distance between these bases (Ambala, Adampur, Halwara, Bhatinda, Sirsa, Suratgarh) and Delhi. Distributed batteries of S-400 can form an overlapping ring all around Delhi and cover the airspace between these bases and Delhi. And neutralize targets much before they present a threat. For those, which might still manage to evade these missiles, you’ll either have LRSAM forming the middle tier of AD network with Akash SAM as the third tier. Or, Akash SAM can form the 2nd tier itself to give additional protection to very high value targets within NCR.

Same goes for cities like Mumbai or other assets like Jamnagar or ammunition depots in depth.

A big advantage of such a system is their long range radar – apart from the guiding the missile, they will also serve as an additional layer of surveillance in the area.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby jahaju » 15 Oct 2015 22:20

Nirbhay missile set for critical low-altitude trial; Sukhoi to chase

Kochi, Oct 14: A Sukhoi (Su-30MKI) fighter will be on chase duties when the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) undertakes a crucial flight trial of the home-grown sub-sonic cruise missile, Nirbhay. Top military sources have confirmed to OneIndia on Wednesday that the third flight trial of Nirbhay will be scheduled on Oct 16 from Launch Complex-III of Integrated Test Range (ITR) in Chandipur (near Balasore) off Odisha coast. Nirbhay Missile "The launch will depend on many factors as usual with weather being a critical one," a source said. As this piece goes live, the final Flight Readiness Review (FRR) and Launch Authorization Board (LAB) meeting is underway. DRDO has scheduled the launch a day after the 84th birth anniversary celebrations of its former chief Dr APJ Abdul Kalam. As reported by OneIndia earlier, Prime Minister Narendra Modi will unveil a bust of Dr Kalam at DRDO headquarters in Delhi tomorrow while Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar will be present in Hyderabad for renaming the Missile Complex after the former President.

Nirbhay Missile Low-altitude flight a challenging task An official said that this time the scientists are preparing the missile for a low-altitude flight, a challenging task. "Mostly all the parameters are same as the last flight, barring this time it will be a low-altitude flight of Nirbhay. The missile will be likely to be brought down from around 4.8 km to 20 m. The process will be undertaken step-by step with the missile likely to fly for around 5 minutes in each stage," the official said. The total duration of the flight is likely to be around 50-minutes to one hour. During low-altitude flights, a missile will have to very high drags, which the scientists are confident of tackling. Sukhoi's long-endurance to come handy During the successful second flight trial conducted last year (October 17, 2014), Nirbhay was chased by a Jaguar striker. "Last time we couldn't get a Sukhoi as the entire fleet was grounded owing to some technical reason. Generally Jaguars, Mirages and Sukhois are used for chased duties during the flight trials of fighters and long-range missiles. This time we are using a Sukhoi as it has long-endurance and can capture the flight parameters till the end," an official said. To capture the video footage of a missile in motion, normally pilots are given the flight nomenclature in advance. The launch time, duration, flightpath, speed and way point navigation (in case of Nirbhay) will be known to the pilots, making their job easier.

Missile test result crucial for many top DRDO brains Nirbhay is India's first home-grown subsonic cruise missile and is developed by Bengaluru-based Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE). The missile has an expected strike range of 800-1100 km. The maiden launch of the missile (March 12, 2013) had to be aborted mid-way when one of the systems developed snags for 500-600 milli seconds. This forced DRDO to embed upgraded redundant systems on Nirbhay during its second trial last year. Nirbhay Missile The current launch will be crucial for DRDO after the Modi government brought in changes on the top with a new Director General (Dr Selvin Christopher) and Scientific Advisor to Defence Minister (Dr G Satheesh Reddy) taking charge. The trial will be also a litmus test for ADE's recently-appointed Director M V K V Prasad. Interestingly, this will be the first missile test after Dr Christopher, Dr Reddy and Prasad in their new avatars.



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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby member_28397 » 15 Oct 2015 23:00

In place of S-400 better invest in homegrown Radar systems(airborne and ground based) and ASTRA future versions to take care of super sonic cruise missiles as well.
S-400 no doubt how much coverage can it provide can never match an air defense provided by a flying platform linked with AWACS or ground based radar networks.
Instead of buying few batteries worth of 3-4 billion $ if 50% of this amount is invested in developing longer range ground based radar/AWACS and ASTRA future versions will be much productive.

Anyway even if we start procedures to buy these systems going by the past roosie systems they will only be deployed in 4-5 years. Better buy some radar/missile tech. from Israel and France than getting these platforms.

Airborne Air Defense >>> Ground Based Air Defense my 2 cents I am no expert just sharing what I have gathered from net.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby ramana » 15 Oct 2015 23:11

I don't understand the gratuitous swipe at the new leadership in DRDO. How are they impacted with the Nirbhay test!

The first test was aborted due to RLG issues which developed soon after the launch. Redundancy in design should be there always for such an important missile. Only they concluded it was not needed in the initial design. Made corrections later. So big deal.

This kind of unnecessary burdens on leadership are not required. They have the flight test burden anyways to carry.

My recommendation is to not allow that reporter future access for he has an agenda.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby shiv » 16 Oct 2015 06:10

India must be the only country in the world in which, if a system being tested has one failure and ten successes the media will make sure they mention that failure in all reports in all future news reports about the system. I suspect that this is not just "anti-national" sentiment - it is just the standard Indian upbringing that makes people suspect Indian origin goods to be of the worst possible quality and the least reliable, being produces by cheats.

The media just have the power to publish, but Indian citizens often hold exactly these views. Naturally it is convenient for every foreign supplier to ensure that these views remain in vogue.

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 35041
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby shiv » 16 Oct 2015 06:40

Regarding this alleged S-400 deal, I have doubts. It could be like PAKFA in the sense that it is WYSIWY(D)G - what you see is what you don't get.

I get the feeling that Indian Radar and other electronics systems such as Sonar are either better than their Russian counterparts or the latter get much better after Indian tweaking and Indianization. I am sure Russia is ahead in missiles but then again the radars are critical and the missiles need tropicalization.

After all we on BRF are constantly on the watch for missile tests and successes in India and the general comment is "Only 4 tests? Can't be ready!" . If we don't have even one test of an S-400 system under Indian conditions how can we simply plumb for it. Either this is import lobby at work or we are going to get suckered.

Karthik S
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karthik S » 16 Oct 2015 06:53

Any chance of Nirbhay attaining higher range this time? Not sure if increasing the range from 1000 km is a priority.


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