Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

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malushahi
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby malushahi » 03 May 2017 22:31

rohitvats wrote:
malushahi wrote:
block3 and I-corps?


:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Wonderful, isn't it? 42 Artillery Division of 1 Strike Corps would be holding these beauties. Great capability addition to the Army.


very cool indeed.

but, isn't block3 very topography/usage specific? change of doctrine?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby vasu raya » 03 May 2017 22:58

topology could be electronically simulated when mission planning is done...

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby nam » 03 May 2017 23:46

rohitvats wrote:
Wonderful, isn't it? 42 Artillery Division of 1 Strike Corps would be holding these beauties. Great capability addition to the Army.


Looks like 1 Strike can use it within it's AoR and not wait for IAF?

We must be producing in numbers. Hope we reduce the even further.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby ramana » 04 May 2017 00:27

Don't say such things. There is no longer that rivalry or civilian permission nonsense from the Nehru days.

The 1965 war, IA asked for IAF support but had to be approved by MoD and that took time. It was the process at fault.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Cybaru » 04 May 2017 02:11

JayS wrote:
So someone on twitter was pointing out that the clouds in picture 1 and 2 above do not look consistent. Any thoughts on this...??

Could be pictures of two different tests with two separate missiles, perhaps??


I am sure we have more than one camera in play placed around the test site collecting data. Each can have a different perspective, angle, zoom and number of frame rates being captured.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby JayS » 04 May 2017 06:56

Cybaru wrote:
JayS wrote:
So someone on twitter was pointing out that the clouds in picture 1 and 2 above do not look consistent. Any thoughts on this...??

Could be pictures of two different tests with two separate missiles, perhaps??


I am sure we have more than one camera in play placed around the test site collecting data. Each can have a different perspective, angle, zoom and number of frame rates being captured.


I figured that out. Second angle is looking somewhat from left to right compared to first one. The terrain of the beach is such that it merely looks like zoomed in view from almost same angle on casual look.

Anyways I already said, its too stupid. So lets rest the matter.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Singha » 04 May 2017 09:43

I hv never seen impact tests of cheen missiles...do such videos exist?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby abhik » 04 May 2017 10:09

I suppose a residual fuel explosion might look like a Hollywood style orange flame explosion.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby ramana » 04 May 2017 10:41

There was a news flash that Agni II is being tested in next few days.

We had Agni III and now Agni II.

The Brahmo test by 1 I corps.

All with military forces.

Looks like unit readiness tests.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Philip » 04 May 2017 11:45

I would've liked the 11 Corps to have tested the new BMos variant in another direction,v.appropriate for the moment...West!
Even if the missile was a bit off course ,hitting anywhere in Pakiland would be of immense benefit to India as we have to consider every Paki a terrorist.
Perhaps the next round of testing could be organised thus!

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby shiv » 04 May 2017 11:46

abhik wrote:I suppose a residual fuel explosion might look like a Hollywood style orange flame explosion.

A very interesting question actually. Military warhead explosions are high velocity explosions and give off a flash of a very short duration and the smoke/dirt plume tends to develop very quickly. Hollywood fuel explosions are slow and the orange flame lasts much longer. Plumes are also bigger for the visual impact.Slow motion filming enhances the slowness.

Videos of an IAF firepower demo winessed by Rajiv Gandhi had "fuel drum enhanced" fake explosions. Will post later.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby jayasimha » 04 May 2017 11:50

http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease. ... lid=161475

Image
Image
Press Information Bureau
Government of India
Ministry of Defence
03-May-2017 16:39 IST
Two Launches in a row with Precise Hit of Brahmos Block 3

South Western Command’s Corps ‘Strike One’ successfully carried out the firing of the advanced BRAHMOS Block III land attack cruise missile system in the Andaman & Nicobar Islands on the 3rd of May 2017 for the second consecutive day. The successive launches reinforce the formidable weapon’s precision strike capability. The long-range tactical weapon was successfully tested from the same location on the 2nd of May, 2017.


These successful firings of the supersonic cruise missile were carried out in full operational land-to-land configurations from Mobile Autonomous Launchers (MAL) at its full-range. Meeting all flight parameters in a copybook manner while conducting high level and complex manoeuvers, the multi-role missile successfully hit the land-based target with desired precision, in both the trials demonstrating its accuracy of less than one metre.



This is the fifth consecutive time when the Block-III version of BRAHMOS LACM has been successfully launched and hit the land-based target in “top-attack” mode, an incredible feat not achieved by any other weapon system of its genre. Indian Army, which became the first land force in the world to deploy the BRAHMOS in 2007, has raised several regiments of this formidable weapon. Jointly developed by India’s DRDO and Russia’s NPOM, the multi-platform, multi-mission BRAHMOS is capable of being launched from land, sea, sub-sea and air against surface and sea-based targets.
****



Col Aman Anand
PRO (Army)
Last edited by ramana on 04 May 2017 18:55, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Added bold for emphasis. ramana

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby JTull » 04 May 2017 13:05

2 Brahmos-ER/Block-III tests in 2 days. Great!

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby shiv » 04 May 2017 13:10


Singha
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Singha » 04 May 2017 13:14

Toi article had some numbers. Seems we have 4 regiments with 67 missiles each and 5 telars each with 3 tubes ready to unload pain.

Toi snippet

The Army in 2007 had inducted the first regiment of BrahMos-I, which consists of 67 missiles, five mobile autonomous launchers on 12x12 Tatra vehicles and two mobile command posts, among other equipment.
Since then, the Army has inducted three BrahMos regiments, with the fourth being on the way. Ten warships have also been equipped with the missiles, which has become the standard offensive weapon for the Navy.
With the combined orders placed for BrahMos missiles already over Rs 27,000 crore, the IAF is also slated to begin testing the missile from its heavy-duty Sukhoi-30MKI fighters soon.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Singha » 04 May 2017 13:16

Must be around 15 vehicles in each regiment to cart the stock of missiles..4 per truck.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby JTull » 04 May 2017 13:19

So IA has only 60 missiles it can deliver in one shot before each of their launchers is located and so must move and reload.

I'd have thought the launchers were cheaper than the missile. Why not keep all of them pre-loaded.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby jamwal » 04 May 2017 13:29

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/859707943339479041

FIRST PHOTOS: The Indian Army 1 Strike Corps' BrahMos Block III extended range test at the Andaman & Nicobar islands yesterday.

Image

Image

Image

Very interesting to see Army's 1st strike core testing these missiles. Are these the missiles which were inducted earlier and now have been "software unlocked" ? V

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby rohitvats » 04 May 2017 14:05

Singha wrote:Toi article had some numbers. Seems we have 4 regiments with 67 missiles each and 5 telars each with 3 tubes ready to unload pain.<SNIP>


The Brahmos Regiment with 42nd Artillery Div of 1 Strike Corps is the 3rd regiment. 2 and 21 Strike Corps arty divs got them first. And must have been inducted pretty recently to be equipped with Block III.

Interestingly, first two Brahmos missile regiments were converted from Light Regiments - ones which hold 120mm mortars in the army.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby shiv » 04 May 2017 14:11

rohitvats wrote:Interestingly, first two Brahmos missile regiments were converted from Light Regiments - ones which hold 120mm mortars in the army.

The army has some interesting views on what is light and not light. 120 mm mortar is pretty devastating on its own...

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby JTull » 04 May 2017 14:44

ramana wrote:There was a news flash that Agni II is being tested in next few days.

We had Agni III and now Agni II.

The Brahmo test by 1 I corps.

All with military forces.

Looks like unit readiness tests.


Couple of Prithvis, a sub-launched Klub and a Brahmos-M test by IAF in next week would do nicely for escalation.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby SSridhar » 04 May 2017 15:33

India test fires nuclear-capable Agni-II missile - IANS
India on Thursday successfully test fired its medium-range nuclear-capable ballistic missile Agni-ll off the Odisha coast.

The trial of the surface-to-surface missile was conducted from Launch Complex-4 of Integrated Test Range (ITR) in the APJ Abdul Kalam Island in Balasore district, said Defence Ministry officials.

The Strategic Forces Command (SCF), a specially raised missile-handling unit of the Indian Army, carried out the test at 10.20 a.m.

Agni-II has two solid fuel stages and a Post Boost Vehicle (PBV) integrated into the missile's Re-entry Vehicle (RV). The 20-metre missile is a two-stage, solid propelled ballistic missile.

It has a strike range of more than 2,000 km, is 20 metres long, weighs 17 tonnes and can carry a payload of 1,000 kg.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby JayS » 04 May 2017 16:16

rohitvats wrote:
Singha wrote:Toi article had some numbers. Seems we have 4 regiments with 67 missiles each and 5 telars each with 3 tubes ready to unload pain.<SNIP>


The Brahmos Regiment with 42nd Artillery Div of 1 Strike Corps is the 3rd regiment. 2 and 21 Strike Corps arty divs got them first. And must have been inducted pretty recently to be equipped with Block III.

Interestingly, first two Brahmos missile regiments were converted from Light Regiments - ones which hold 120mm mortars in the army.


Sjha tweeted that 4th Brahmos regiment is being raised, to be given to Eastern command. Also mentioned 5th and 6th. How many Army regiments are planned exactly as of today..??

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby kurup » 04 May 2017 18:41



Can somebody post the NOTAM or NAVAREA warning isuued for this test ??

I can't find any .

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby kurup » 04 May 2017 18:50

malushahi wrote:just for perspective - that is all the gas lighting up (no warhead). imagine the kaboom with the masala packed in.


Are you sure ?? This one may be with warhead .

See this video ....... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSQd8CvbGWw

At 0:25 you could see missile hitting ground and no fireball at all and at 0:30 another one but with fireball .

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Gagan » 04 May 2017 18:51

If no pictures of the Agni 2 are released, I will assume that this was a Sub Launched K-5 missile, being passed off as an Agni 2.
The news item says "Off the Odisha coast"

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karthik S » 04 May 2017 18:55

K-5 or K-4 ?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby ramana » 04 May 2017 18:59

JTull, These are not escalation. They are verifying the operational readiness. It has bearing on things we see in the news.

60 Brahmos Blk III with 1 m accuracy puts a lots of valuable assets in TSP at risk.

A3 & 2 tests are for escalation domination.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby kurup » 04 May 2017 19:02

shiv wrote:Agni 2 alsoo phyrred as per Twitter
https://twitter.com/Outlookindia/status ... 7971230721


Agni-2 was tested for a reduced range ...... the notification was for less than 1000km ..... either it was reduced range test or they must have tested something in name of Agni-2 .

INDIA EAST COAST – BAY OF BENGAL (.) CHARTS 31 351 352 INT 71 (.) EXPERIMENTAL FLIGHT TRIAL SCHEDULED FROM ITR ON 04 AND 05 MAY 17 FROM 0230 – 0630 UTC IN DANGER ZONE BOUNDED BY 20-48.33N 087-02.59E, 18-12.34N 086-07.12E, 11-42.63N 086-21.25E, 11-54.35N 089-21.23E, 18-24.13N 088-30.46E, 20-48.73N 087-07.42E 2. CANCEL THIS MSG 050730 UTC MAY 17

Image

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karthik S » 04 May 2017 19:06

May be nirbhay, they just may want to be confident that next announced launch will be a success.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby rohitvats » 04 May 2017 19:12

shiv wrote:The army has some interesting views on what is light and not light. 120 mm mortar is pretty devastating on its own...


Classification is based on diameter of the barrel.

105mm IFG and 120mm are Light; 130mm M-46 and 155mm Bofors/Dhanush is Medium; 160mm Tempella M-58 Mortar is the only heavy caliber in service.

One for thing - Light Regiments have two, instead of three batteries as is standard in other arty regiments.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby SSridhar » 04 May 2017 19:15

A2 is a particularly devastating ballistic missile for our terrorist neighbour. Its range is certainly more than the 2000 Kms it is usually touted to be because in a normal launch, it reaches 600 Kms apogee which by the rule of thumb puts its range at 3000 Kms. Against the terrorist state, it would most likely be launched in a depressed trajectory so that the terrorist armed forces have no leisurely time to pick up the warheads streaking towards their jihadi dens. A2 also has a manouevering re-entry vehicle. For the benefit of our terrorist neigbour, A2 also has a very low CEP.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karthik S » 04 May 2017 19:20

For pak, brahmos ER even with 450 KM, will cover most of it's territory. Pakees lack strategic depth.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Gagan » 04 May 2017 19:34

Karthik S wrote:K-5 or K-4 ?

K-4 Mk1 or even a K-15, if they are only testing for a 1000 km range

Nirbhay, will usually have waypoints, and they are also looking for impact accuracy and CEP, so the end point is either on land or a target close to shore.
The ballistic missiles, with a dummy warhead is detonated at about 1 Km altitude, as was seen in a video released several years ago

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby darshhan » 04 May 2017 19:42

Karthik S wrote:For pak, brahmos ER even with 450 KM, will cover most of it's territory. Pakees lack strategic depth.


And the best part is that beyond 450 kms, we can have access to even better weapon than brahmos. It is known as "baloch".

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby shiv » 04 May 2017 19:44

Video grabs comparing mijjile size with plume size. Warhead produces a 25 story high plume - taller than Bengaluru's tallest building
Image

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby malushahi » 04 May 2017 19:47

jamwal wrote:Very interesting to see Army's 1st strike core testing these missiles. Are these the missiles which were inducted earlier and now have been "software unlocked" ? V


there are two issues here:
1. "unlocking" all missiles to make them extended range
2. "upgrading" older blocks to block-3 to enhance/change mission profiles

the first regiment was block-1. the second and third were block-2. the fourth (being inducted) is block-3.

with news of I corps (that presumably has the third regiment, i.e. block-2) now firing block 3, one asks:
- has the third one (presumably with I corps) been upgraded?
- or have some elements of I corps changed their geographic disposition (this is why i have used the word "change" above)?

if it is the first, then maybe all the regiments are in the process of being upgraded to block-3. that would explain the location of one of brahmos corp facilities that i have agonized over for some time.

if it is the second, that would be interesting.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby srai » 04 May 2017 19:50

:twisted:
shiv wrote:Video grabs comparing mijjile size with plume size. Warhead produces a 25 story high plume - taller than Bengaluru's tallest building
Image

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Uttam » 04 May 2017 21:46

shiv wrote:Video grabs comparing mijjile size with plume size. Warhead produces a 25 story high plume - taller than Bengaluru's tallest building
Image


The missile is in motion at the very high velocity. The 48 pixels probably overstate the length and thus it overstates the height of the plume.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby shiv » 04 May 2017 21:53

Uttam wrote:The missile is in motion at the very high velocity. The 48 pixels probably overstate the length and thus it overstates the height of the plume.

Just the opposite. It UNDERSTATES the size of the plume.

If I measure the missile longer than it actually is and then correct the measured figure to get a smaller missile length in pixels I would get a taller plume for correcting the missile length to make a smaller denominator

Height of plume in meters/8.4 meters (length of Brahmos) = height of plume in pixels/length of missile in pixels
or:
Height of plume in meters = (height of plume in pixels/length of missile in pixels)*8.4


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