LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

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Philip
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Philip » 19 Dec 2015 09:46

Media report about 20 MK-1s to be followed by another 100 by 2027.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby vishvak » 19 Dec 2015 10:25

indranilroy wrote:LCA flight testing is again picking up speed. PV-5, LSP-3, LSP-4, LSP-7, LSP-8 and NP-2 have reported back to duty. For the past 3 weeks, there have been at least one flight a day.

Which plane was supposed to have the refueling probe and the new radome fitted to it?

Is it LSP-1 considering that it had earlier been tested with some EW suit.
From link
The first prototype vehicle has now completed its first flight with an advanced electronic warfare (EW) suite developed by DRDO.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby deejay » 19 Dec 2015 10:39

LCA aeros overhead for about 20 mins. Beautiful. It had stopped for last 03 days and resumed today. I guess now, it is for the air show at Bahrain.

Update: Another aero display probably same tail number with around :30 mins turnaround - looks like quick refueling and back in air. Great show! 8)

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby srai » 19 Dec 2015 11:14

^^^

How are the maneuvers compared to last AeroIndia? Any noticeable differences?

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby deejay » 19 Dec 2015 11:33

srai wrote:^^^

How are the maneuvers compared to last AeroIndia? Any noticeable differences?


:) I think I understand why you ask but nothing that the eye could discern. Anyways, full glare of Sun in the eye and in the second routine there were some small cloud patches blocking view.

By and large the same set of aeros. But adrenaline pumping all the same.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Philip » 19 Dec 2015 11:50

Any confirmation that we're taking part in the Bahrein air show? This will then be the first look of the LCA/Tejas at a firang air show.Can't let the "thundering one" steal the thunder,pun intended.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Nick_S » 19 Dec 2015 12:00

Its quite likely Philip. Lots of flying going on.

Anantha Krishnan M ✈ ‏@writetake 1h1 hour ago
Folks can't write peacefully. #Tejas doing all tantrums for attention. Just over my house. Ear-splitting sound. :)

Image

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby member_22605 » 19 Dec 2015 12:21

nileshjr wrote:What's the big deal about IMU?? Looking at the price it doesn't even look like some uber-class stuff. There is one startup which makes such stuff in Pune - Nav.stik. They offer modules which has all the components that wiki says IMU has (at about $500). (The founder is good friend, he was telling me that our guys cannot source some stuff which he can provide easily. DRDO guys are interested but no concrete initiative from them. Neither is he very much willing to waste time with defence guys, he has burnt his hands in previous venture there enough already). Why can't we just get these things done in India rather than begging outside?? Unless of coarse we need some mil-grade TFTA h/w which only US govt can supply.

I've used and am still using Navstik and I've met nitin gupta personally but the problem is his autopilot is not rugged and has terrible problems with vibrations and it has got a very cumbersome power supply connections. He said he'd ruggedize it but am not sure how well that has progressed but the autopilot by itself is quite good for hobby grade stuff not for mil grade UAVs and definitely not helicopters.
Cheers!

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby member_22605 » 19 Dec 2015 12:25

Thr LCA display is a part of the flying display for 75 years celebration of HAL on the 23rd.
Cheers!

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby deejay » 19 Dec 2015 12:44

^^^ Okay so both IJT and LCA were practicing for this. Lots of Dhruv, Rudra and one LCH has been flying too, though not on airshow mode. Next 04 days will be fun.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby JTull » 19 Dec 2015 14:37

raghuk wrote:
nileshjr wrote:What's the big deal about IMU?? Looking at the price it doesn't even look like some uber-class stuff. There is one startup which makes such stuff in Pune - Nav.stik. They offer modules which has all the components that wiki says IMU has (at about $500). (The founder is good friend, he was telling me that our guys cannot source some stuff which he can provide easily. DRDO guys are interested but no concrete initiative from them. Neither is he very much willing to waste time with defence guys, he has burnt his hands in previous venture there enough already). Why can't we just get these things done in India rather than begging outside?? Unless of coarse we need some mil-grade TFTA h/w which only US govt can supply.

I've used and am still using Navstik and I've met nitin gupta personally but the problem is his autopilot is not rugged and has terrible problems with vibrations and it has got a very cumbersome power supply connections. He said he'd ruggedize it but am not sure how well that has progressed but the autopilot by itself is quite good for hobby grade stuff not for mil grade UAVs and definitely not helicopters.
Cheers!


Looking at this from outside, I'd say it is even more necessary to invest in this, if we're serious about investing in local R&D.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby JayS » 19 Dec 2015 16:48

raghuk wrote:I've used and am still using Navstik and I've met nitin gupta personally but the problem is his autopilot is not rugged and has terrible problems with vibrations and it has got a very cumbersome power supply connections. He said he'd ruggedize it but am not sure how well that has progressed but the autopilot by itself is quite good for hobby grade stuff not for mil grade UAVs and definitely not helicopters.
Cheers!


Thanks a lot raghuk for the details. I am sure he could do it but lack of funding and support is big issue for our tech start ups. DRDO should start incubation centre or something exclusively for aerospace tech start-ups. I have worked in similar start-up for quite a while and its really really hard to survive out there.

Today's LCA moves were a notch more aggressive that what it has been last few days I thought.

BTW I didnt know about the air display on 23rd. Thanks for that too. I'll bunk office and will go stand next to HAL runway to get some glimpse. :mrgreen:

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Nick_S » 19 Dec 2015 19:12

Dont forget your camera Nileshjr.

Perhaps Shiv will visit the golf course on the 23rd with his camera too.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby suryag » 19 Dec 2015 20:16

what time is it on 23rd will join the bunch of roadside lca romeos

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Indranil » 19 Dec 2015 23:17

I am jealous of you guys. Click some good ones. I hope LUH takes to the air! Wouldn't it be amazing if HTT-40 was put on static display?!!

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Picklu » 20 Dec 2015 10:41

Double post ..... vishut.
Last edited by Picklu on 20 Dec 2015 14:42, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Picklu » 20 Dec 2015 10:42

Brotesting die-nasty bail in NH case, LCA is doing aggressive nadabazi again for the last 20 minutes :D
Ear-splitting sloganeering and very very (way more than last Aero India) gunda manuever :D :D

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby JayS » 20 Dec 2015 11:51

It come for Second time. It flies to far from my house to id which one of the LCA fleet it is, but for landing approach t passes overhead. I managed to take a snap with my poor camera it it was either KH-2012 or 2013. Can't make it out clearly.

I also tried to measure time its taking for full horizontal and vertical turn mentally so its little inaccurate but today its doing horizontal turn in less than 20sec and vertical turn in about 18 sec. Take it FWIW.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Picklu » 20 Dec 2015 14:47

^^ The climb rate, while not in a loop, was way more than what I have seen so far. The horizontal turn was tighter as well. Again, all my perception. Gave impression of F16esque 'high powered' maneuver i.e. as if lot of reserve thrust on call

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby shiv » 20 Dec 2015 15:46

nileshjr wrote:
I also tried to measure time its taking for full horizontal and vertical turn mentally so its little inaccurate but today its doing horizontal turn in less than 20sec and vertical turn in about 18 sec. Take it FWIW.

Thanks for taking the trouble.

What do you mean "full vertical turn"? Do you mean a loop? That is going vertically up - going upside down and then coming back down to original position? If so 18 seconds is way faster than at earlier airshows

See this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4XBqNrzqak
Start at 4:13 (4 min 13 sec)

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Ashok Sarraff » 20 Dec 2015 15:50

Saab offers Gripen under make in India with full system and software TOT (may have implications for LCA orders and development)

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 253759.cms

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby JayS » 20 Dec 2015 16:21

shiv wrote:
nileshjr wrote:
I also tried to measure time its taking for full horizontal and vertical turn mentally so its little inaccurate but today its doing horizontal turn in less than 20sec and vertical turn in about 18 sec. Take it FWIW.

Thanks for taking the trouble.

What do you mean "full vertical turn"? Do you mean a loop? That is going vertically up - going upside down and then coming back down to original position? If so 18 seconds is way faster than at earlier airshows

See this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4XBqNrzqak
Start at 4:13 (4 min 13 sec)


Yeah I meant "loop" only. Exactly like that one in the video. The one in video is finished in 22-23sec. My time could be little off, but for sure it was more nimble than AI-15. Compared to AI, these days LCA is doing aerobatics like its high on pots or something. Even the double rolling manoeuvre it did was amazing. It flies little far from my house so I can't clearly see all the manoeuvres. But vertical loop I can see very clearly on clear day. I don't have good zoom lens else I would have taken video.

One snap I took while it passed near my house on its landing approach. Its highly cropped image.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9ijXlsoNPWzWlEwLWJ0cmtjRmM/view?usp=sharing

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby NRao » 20 Dec 2015 17:45

Ashok Sarraff wrote:Saab offers Gripen under make in India with full system and software TOT (may have implications for LCA orders and development)

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 253759.cms


:roll: on the contrary ......

Saab is not only offering to set up a base here but also help in the development of aerospace capability for the next 100 years and partner in developing the next version of indigenous Light Combat Aircraft Tejas and the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), being developed and designed by Aeronautical Development Agency.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Philip » 20 Dec 2015 18:31

Saab offers Gripen under make in India with full system and software TOT (may have implications for LCA orders and development)


SAAB getting "kittens" as the LCA is about to make its debut abroad? :rotfl:
With many developing nations preferring a non-Western light fighter and Russia missing the bus with no single-engine MIG-21 replacement,the market is for thousands of fighters in the MIG-21 class. Right now there are 3 contenders.The Gripen-costly,the "Thunderer" from the Terrorist state of Pak via the Dragon and our very own Tejas.

With the GOI finally cracking heads and ordering MK-1 in large number,the spotlight will now begin to shift onto it as it flies in foreign skies. Farnborough/Paris are the key shows each year,but it would do no harm to fly at SPore,MAKS (why even the Russians could buy it,said so before!). The price factor is its greatest attribute,though the GE/US engine could rule out some markets,why the version with the EJ-200 TVC should be developed too.One could even envisage a stealth version in a later avatar which could be accomplished within a few years,as so much dev work has been done on the basic aircraft.

But the greatest challenge is for HAL to ramp up production.We must build 20-24 /yr at least.With a potential for 200-300 for the IAF alone,a second production facility should be set up asap,especially if exports are seriously being considered and the LCA's debut at Bahrein is not just grandstanding.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby brar_w » 20 Dec 2015 18:53

With many developing nations preferring a non-Western light fighter and Russia missing the bus with no single-engine MIG-21 replacement,the market is for thousands of fighters in the MIG-21 class. Right now there are 3 contenders.The Gripen-costly,the "Thunderer" from the Terrorist state of Pak via the Dragon and our very own Tejas


You are missing the T/A-50 and the up-armed F/A-50 both of which have had success in the export market along with the T-50 trainer. The T/A-50 or the F/A-50 has been exported to the Philippines and Iraq while the trainer variant to Indonesia (that also has some attack role) and Thailand. Although the LCA is more capable, KAI has momentum and have most likely already sorted out the marketing and offset packages given they have already been involved with export customers (also there is after sales support that they would have already established).

You can divide the category into those that have access to western technology and those that are restricted from it. The latter would not be able to procure the LCA until the Kaveri usefully operational and inducted with the IAF and would essentially be monopoly markets for the Chinese stuff. The former are potential customers for the LCA but then they also have other options such as the Gripen C (that will remain in production concurrent to Gripen E production), T-50/T/A-50/F/A-50 and other emerging stealth fighters. Having said that I don't think the LCA would have a problem picking up 2-3 customers provided production ramps up, there is a smooth induction and a good marketing campaign backed by the GOI but time is going to be critical since the window for an MK1 is limited and MK1A and MK2 need to be developed and made available since those will be more attractive for operators looking to pick a fighter in the 2020's that will last them 20-25 years in service.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby srai » 21 Dec 2015 03:42

Few things for export success:
  • GoI/HAL/IAF/IN -> concerted marketing plan to promote and sale the LCA
  • GoI -> formulate export package including loans, offset and other strategic investments; also, get clearance of parts/components that make up the LCA
  • IAF -> needs to consistently speak well of the LCA; not helping with current sound bites (mostly via unofficial sources) that shed the LCA in bad light.
  • HAL -> after the Eucador ALH export fiasco, a better after sales support needs to be in place. Lot more crew training needs to be conducted along with long-term LCC package. That image of low-quality Indian product needs to be shed (that includes within Indian armed forces to begin with).
  • HAL and its Tier-1-3 supply chain-> some export capacity needs to be set aside to cater for potential export success

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby JayS » 21 Dec 2015 10:49

Same news about SAAB offer I had read in The Hindu as well just before it was posted here but from ET. While reading it I thought its a paid article. But its from PTI. Does PTI also accept lifafas?? Some jerk on ET commented on that article that its a "God-sent" offer for us. :lol: :lol: I was tempted to reply him that if so then it must not be our God who sent it, as HE doesn't seem to wish much good for us.

OTOH, Its sad to see how we look down to our own people. We would rather have thrown piece of stale bread by goras than having a nice freshly made roti.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Karan M » 21 Dec 2015 11:40

the only thing i see oh so soup-e-rear on the gripen NG is presumably more fuel. even that, needs to be confirmed.
otherwise MOD would create the most mad AF in world to have 2 kinds of MMRCA out of one tender and that too when it has a light fighter that can be developed further.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Philip » 21 Dec 2015 12:54

The first export could be to Sri Lanka. The easiest to support with training,spares,etc. BLR is just an hour+ away. Bangladesh next. Vietnam further afar. There could be some African nations too which may be interested. Central Asian republics and other states which have been flying MIG-21s for decades too. In fact an HAL-MIG tie-up could yield excellent results in a global replacement plan for MIGs.A Russian engine and Ru/Ind AESA radar could do the business. The PM and DM should explore this idea when they visit Moscow.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Will » 21 Dec 2015 13:32

What happened to the plans to have a second production line in the private sector for the LCA?

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Viv S » 21 Dec 2015 14:27

srai wrote:[*]HAL -> after the Eucador ALH export fiasco, a better after sales support needs to be in place. Lot more crew training needs to be conducted along with long-term LCC package. That image of low-quality Indian product needs to be shed (that includes within Indian armed forces to begin with).
[*]HAL and its Tier-1-3 supply chain-> some export capacity needs to be set aside to cater for potential export success[/list]


That's going to need much more than just an image overhaul.

From the CAG Report on the Army Aviation Corps


Image

Image

Image

Image

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Picklu » 21 Dec 2015 16:02

ALH serviceability is in deep trouble it seems. Someone from HAL really need to do a deep dive there.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby shiv » 21 Dec 2015 16:08

This is the LCA thread

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Viv S » 21 Dec 2015 16:12

Philip wrote:The first export could be to Sri Lanka. The easiest to support with training,spares,etc. BLR is just an hour+ away. Bangladesh next. Vietnam further afar. There could be some African nations too which may be interested. Central Asian republics and other states which have been flying MIG-21s for decades too. In fact an HAL-MIG tie-up could yield excellent results in a global replacement plan for MIGs.A Russian engine and Ru/Ind AESA radar could do the business. The PM and DM should explore this idea when they visit Moscow.


You want to put a Russian engine into the Tejas? How about you ask the Chinese how its working out for them. They've 'publicly' lost three J-10s in just the last nine months (and who knows how many more unreported ones) with engine failure blamed in all three cases. The Sri Lankans and Vietnamese will probably prefer the MiG-29 over it, at least its got two engines to bring the pilot home safely.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby viveksonkhla » 21 Dec 2015 19:10

Old Report!!!

DRDO Set to Increase Desi Components on LCA

The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) is gearing up to cut the important content onboard Tejas in an effort to erase the tag that India’s home-grown fighter flies on some videshi might.

This again is in line with the oft-repeated ‘make-in-India’ philosophy of Defence Minister A K Antony. While the IOC-2 will be definitely a breather for DRDO and its autonomous wing ADA, the defence scientists are now channelising their energies in developing more indigenous components for Tejas.

DRDO’s most prominent voice Dr K Tamil Mani, Director-General (Aeronautical Systems), said his organisation is working parallel to get a few Indian weapons integrated on Tejas.

“Though to integrate Indian weapons is not a planned test point for the final operational clearance (FOC) of Tejas, we have started working on it for some time now. The Astra missile integration with an improvised range of 80-plus km (currently 40-45 km) is the next big challenge. We have also planned some PGMs (precision-guided munitions) for Tejas, including glide bombs and GPS-guided bombs,” Mani said.

“We want to take up the Indian weapon integration as a parallel programme, which is progressing as per our plan. In military aviation, the modern thought process is to share the strength. No country makes every component all alone in a fighter plane. So to say that Tejas is not 100 per cent Indian, doesn’t hold any ground. We want to take the indigenous content in Tejas to 80 per cent from the current 60 per cent. It is an achievable target and we have the strength,” he said.

An onboard oxygen generating system (OBOGS) is also in the pipeline for Tejas. The OBOGS development work is being undertaken by the Bangalore-based DRDO life sciences lab Defence Bioengineering andElectromedical Laboratory.

“The OBOGS enables the pilots to fly at high altitudes and on long duration sorties without the help of oxygen cylinders. We are also planning to get an Indian company to supply the tyres for Tejas, which currently runs on Dunlop,” Mani explained.

The engine (GE F 404), ejection seat (Martin Baker), missile (R 73 E) and the multi-mode radar (Elta) are among the prominent import content onboard Tejas now.


http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/ ... 955174.ece
Last edited by ramana on 21 Dec 2015 21:07, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Added comment. ramana

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby shiv » 21 Dec 2015 19:21

Nick_S wrote:Dont forget your camera Nileshjr.

Perhaps Shiv will visit the golf course on the 23rd with his camera too.

Looks like President will be there and there are some serious driving and parking restrictions in the whole area. Just warning would be photographers to account for that

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby deejay » 21 Dec 2015 19:30

^^^ Yes, expecting a clampdown on the road behind HAL Airport from tomorrow itself.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Venu » 21 Dec 2015 19:36

Apparently, someone has caught Tejas practicing the ballet over the skies of Bengaluru.
Youtube link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNoReOz-zcg
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNoReOz-zcg[/youtube]

Youtube link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KszgZnBAERM
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KszgZnBAERM[/youtube]

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby suryag » 21 Dec 2015 20:07

Is the tejas showing off its low speed capabilities in video 1? Felt like it would stall any moment. Good bits of info however it is a two year old article?

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby shiv » 21 Dec 2015 20:20

Venu wrote:Apparently, someone has caught Tejas practicing the ballet over the skies of Bengaluru.
Youtube link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNoReOz-zcg


This is a fabulous video. BRF's angle of attack angst can probably be set right with this video

Starting at 5 seconds is a never seen before manoeuvre from the Tejas. I have only seen the F/A 18 doing it - i.e a sudden nose pull up and near vertical climb followed by a sudden pushing down of the nose to re-enter horizontal flight get a "corner of a square" type of track. Later in the video is a slow flyby at high AoA. My judgement is that the AoA is greatr than at previous airshows. It is difficult to judge the airspeed though and it seems slow enough to be better than before


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