LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 29 Jan 2016 20:09

If they are getting close to 18 degrees of STR with that big of a wing, you can imagine what the ITR must be.

They can of course reduce the drag more:
1. Aerodynamic refinements behind the cockpit and sleeker pylons.
2. They were also considering reducing the trim drag by moving the CG slightly back. Having an active proportioner to keep the CG there throughout the entire flight will also help.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 29 Jan 2016 20:19

Gyan wrote:The delay in firing BVR missile is all due to IAF...IAF specified the make of BVR missile i.e. Derby only in 2014.

Are you really sure about this date? Maybe you might want to double check on the date and thereafter you might want to rephrase the first part of your sentence.

Gyan wrote:LCA is BVR capable but IAF specified the make of BVR missile i.e. Derby only in 2014.

Please illuminate me on how an aircraft is BVR capable before the specification of BVR missile?

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 29 Jan 2016 20:21

Nilesh, congrats on that & the STR/ITR calculations. Looks like you were bang on target.

That Bahrain air show demo was a nice shot in the arm for all the archers who were busy fighting the motivated interests. Onwards!!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Jan 2016 20:37

we can invite the singapore F-16 to exercise in kalaikunda and pit the tejas too into the ACM mix to get a sense of where it stands in realistic scenario vs a legendary acm exponent like the F-solah. SAF has already been to kalaikunda before. DACT with all the IAF/IN types too.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 29 Jan 2016 20:52

Lca can definitely be tried against m2k, mig 21 n 29 in house to gauge effectiveness

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 29 Jan 2016 21:09

kkd has regular detachment of RSAF F-16.. in few years we'll even see the AESA F-15s there...

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 29 Jan 2016 21:30

Can the front and read landing gear doors on the Tejas be enlarged/repositioned and used as airbrakes? I think the rear doors are already used for the purpose, but only to correct for the unexpected yaw because of the aft placement of the current airbrakes. The front door does not face the incoming airflow and only presents a side.

If the landing gear doors are used for airbrakes, I think at least a few tens of kgs of weight could be shaved off by making the actuators for the airbrakes redundant. This in turn will reduce the ballast carried in the nose..

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 29 Jan 2016 21:32

fanne wrote:Lca can definitely be tried against m2k, mig 21 n 29 in house to gauge effectiveness

IIRC, first step post FOC is deputation to TACDE for this evaluation?

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 29 Jan 2016 21:48

sudeepj wrote:Can the front and read landing gear doors on the Tejas be enlarged/repositioned and used as airbrakes? I think the rear doors are already used for the purpose, but only to correct for the unexpected yaw because of the aft placement of the current airbrakes. The front door does not face the incoming airflow and only presents a side.

If the landing gear doors are used for airbrakes, I think at least a few tens of kgs of weight could be shaved off by making the actuators for the airbrakes redundant. This in turn will reduce the ballast carried in the nose..

Let's think about it for a min. The MLG (Main LG) doors were considered because they are so much nearer to the CG. Not much moment created by the drag force. But the NLG (nose LG) door being so far from the CG will give significant pitching moment that too nose down. It would pitch down the nose, reducing AoA dangerously. It would be similar to what would happen if you slam front disk breaks of a really fast going motorcycle.

Using NLG doors for breaking probably is not the best idea. Using MLG was a good idea, but didn't work out properly. May be in later versions it will be used.

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 29 Jan 2016 21:55

nileshjr wrote:
sudeepj wrote:Can the front and read landing gear doors on the Tejas be enlarged/repositioned and used as airbrakes? I think the rear doors are already used for the purpose, but only to correct for the unexpected yaw because of the aft placement of the current airbrakes. The front door does not face the incoming airflow and only presents a side.

If the landing gear doors are used for airbrakes, I think at least a few tens of kgs of weight could be shaved off by making the actuators for the airbrakes redundant. This in turn will reduce the ballast carried in the nose..
Let's think about it for a min. The MLG (Main LG) doors were considered because they are so much nearer to the CG. Not much moment created by the drag force. But the NLG (nose LG) door being so far from the CG will give significant pitching moment that too nose down. It would pitch down the nose, reducing AoA dangerously. It would be similar to what would happen if you slam front disk breaks of a really fast going motorcycle.

Using NLG doors for breaking probably is not the best idea. Using MLG was a good idea, but didn't work out properly. May be in later versions it will be used.

Interesting.. There was cemilac paper that talked about using the MLG doors but the SP aircraft still seem to have the air brakes so either it did not work in practice or it may be used in the Mk1A.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 29 Jan 2016 22:45

Yogi_G wrote:
fanne wrote:Lca can definitely be tried against m2k, mig 21 n 29 in house to gauge effectiveness
IIRC, first step post FOC is deputation to TACDE for this evaluation?

Tejas Tejasvi Namaham

Hitesh · Post by **Hitesh** » 29 Jan 2016 23:01

nileshjr wrote:Some updated from LCA FB page:

- LSP1 might not fly again
- SP1 is hanger queen for a year now. Expected to resume flying soon. (I thought since IAF squadron formation has already started and SP1 must be used for flying).

Q: Has Tejas achieved STR of 18 deg/sec as described in ASR? or falls below it?
A: We're almost there with the ASR figure.

What happened to LSP1 that it might not fly again?

sankum · Post by **sankum** » 29 Jan 2016 23:16

LSP1 has older F404 engine and not IN20 which features in MK1/1A as far as I remember. Correct me if I am wrong.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 29 Jan 2016 23:56

no sure, check arshyam's post - 24+17 IN20s, and 8 F2J3s [6PTV+2TD]. LSP1 should be the IN20s. If LSP1 joined after 600 flights, then it must be IN20 [per GE order site].

Mk1 I still think it would be the IN20s. [first 40 or 2 squads]
Mk1a will get the 414s [hopefully].

shravanp · Post by **shravanp** » 30 Jan 2016 01:08

In Bahrain's Tejas video, did anyone hear the Bahraini commentator refer India as "Jamuriat Al Hind" ?

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 30 Jan 2016 01:22

If Rafale does not work out IAF may need more Tejas for H&D reasons, as it will be its only AESA fighter.

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 30 Jan 2016 05:16

skekatpuray wrote:In Bahrain's Tejas video, did anyone hear the Bahraini commentator refer India as "Jamuriat Al Hind" ?

I believe its means something like the democratic republic of Hindustan

member_29172 · Post by **member_29172** » 30 Jan 2016 05:19

skekatpuray wrote:In Bahrain's Tejas video, did anyone hear the Bahraini commentator refer India as "Jamuriat Al Hind" ?

pukies usually use jamuriat to mean democracy, so maybe democratic republic of India or Bharat Ganrajya

member_26622 · Post by **member_26622** » 30 Jan 2016 05:32

Why can't we have Reliance set up another manufacturing line for LCA x 100 nos.. They made loud claims with fanfare pitching for Rafale- why not ask them to deliver on this. HAL needs a competitor in my humble opinion!

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 30 Jan 2016 06:01

USA will produce 500 F-35 and have another 500 on production line before IOC. It will have produced 1000 F-35 and have another 1000 on production line before FOC. While we are have still NOT signed contract for 100 MK-1A.

member_29172 · Post by **member_29172** » 30 Jan 2016 06:04

nik wrote:Why can't we have Reliance set up another manufacturing line for LCA x 100 nos.. They made loud claims with fanfare pitching for Rafale- why not ask them to deliver on this. HAL needs a competitor in my humble opinion!

Reliance isn't reliable, both in terms of timing and political opinions. I'd go with L&T, TATA or even Mahindra. L&T seems to be the most ambitious, plus they are pretty reliable. No politics, no drama, just give them the orders and they'll deliver. I've been following their work in metro projects, power projects and navy. I don't think I've ever come across any articles that whined about L&T.

L&T and TATA are best bet IMO, and yeah HAL should share.

member_29172 · Post by **member_29172** » 30 Jan 2016 06:04

Gyan wrote:USA will produce 500 F-35 and have another 500 on production line before IOC. It will have produced 1000 F-35 and have another 1000 on production line before FOC. While we are have still NOT signed contract for 100 MK-1A.

That's quite a lot for a bankrupt country, where'll they put those 1000 f-35s? on the moon? Can we please this childish whiny non sense and write something that makes sense.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 30 Jan 2016 07:16

It doesn't really matter which pvt company builds the LCA.
What a private player will being in is the best practices of efficiency, meeting timelines, customer service, cost effectiveness and so many other things that a government run organization is just not structured to handle.

Just about any big private player can build the LCA.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 30 Jan 2016 07:30

^^ thats not really true. just look at airtel or any cellphone operator. all they do is squeeze people with minimum infra. customer service ?

in manufacturing look at desi pioneer TELCO. despite having a headstart of decades and the Indica being from early 90s, they are abject failure in the car market and have a share of 3.5% now - Ford has nearly the same, M&M has 2X and honda and renault(!!) have more. hyundai and maruti are out of sight.
and they had a long CV experience , supply chain, global access to technology COTS , trained manpower to get it right....but they could not.

so it really does matter who does it. L&T, Tata SED and M&M I feel are trustworthy. Reliance first should be asked to prove themselves making shoes, belts and bags outsourced from OFB before they get to build ships and planes. they are not even very good in the technology side of their core areas like chemical engg as they can easily 'source' COTS tech from abroad than have a corporate R&D setup like say du pont , bayer et al do. in that they are like the arab giant oil refining and drilling cos - the technology is sourced from america/eu/japan. I have a friend in oil sector in gulf and they have a tieup with some shell lab in tokyo(!)...the US/EU oil cos are big r&d spenders.

member_29172 · Post by **member_29172** » 30 Jan 2016 07:35

Gagan wrote:It doesn't really matter which pvt company builds the LCA.
What a private player will being in is the best practices of efficiency, meeting timelines, customer service, cost effectiveness and so many other things that a government run organization is just not structured to handle.

Just about any big private player can build the LCA.

You have no idea how inefficient reliance is in terms of project execution. Definitely not someone you would want as a pvt. manufacturing partner. Plus they try to leech off as much money as possible. Just because it's pvt. doesn't mean it'll be good work.

Go around the internet and look at project quality, time taken, cost overruns etc and reliance would pop out like a sore thumb. It's probably more pathetic than HAL in terms of manufacturing and constructing things that aren't their traditional forte.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 30 Jan 2016 07:45

Saar,
Care to compare BSNL with any other private operator?
We are talking amby vs maruti kind of comparision.
Cellphone service is IMHO not a correct comparision onlee. These guys lease lines from BSNL, can't spend that much on infrastructure, import from cheen and then can only offer shoddy service.

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 30 Jan 2016 08:00

^Actually BSNL services are not bad. Try getting a signal in a nonurban area and BSNL rules and their broadband at least in my area is better than the other providers.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 30 Jan 2016 08:15

Did not see this posted.

Received queries for LCA Tejas during Bahrain airshow: HAL chief T Suvarna Raju

Queries were received about the country's indigenous Light Combat Aircraft Tejas for possible export, during the recently held Bahrain air show, HAL chief T Suvarna Raju today said but refused to identify the interested countries.

He also asserted that the first upgraded Tejas with better radar, missiles system, mid-air refueling capability, would be handed over to the force by 2018.

"We have got inquiries for LCA already," Raju said as he lauded the aircraft's performance at this month's Bahrain air show.

Asked for the names of countries which have evinced interest, Raju told PTI, "Believe us when I say there are inquiries for LCA."

The aircraft is expected to replace the ageing fleet of MiG-21 fighter planes in the Indian Air Force.

Talking about the LCA programme, he said HAL and others are working on the "requirements" needed to make the aircraft useful to the operator, which in this case will be IAF.

IAF plans to acquire 120 Tejas aircraft, with 100 of them having some major modifications. It wants better radar, new electronic warfare suit, refuelling capacity and beyond the vision range missiles.

"The series production has started. We are increasing the capacity from 8 to 16 per annum. We will be rolling out good numbers.

"The requirements which are are required for this aircraft to be useful to the operator would be complied by HAL," he said.

Raju said that the first aircraft with all required modifications would be handed over to IAF in 2018.

As per the production plan, six aircraft will be made this year (2015-16) and Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd will subsequently scale it up to eight and 16 aircraft per year.

It is estimated that 20 aircraft will be built by 2017- 2018 to make the first squadron of the plane.

The LCA programme was initiated in 1983 to replace the ageing MiG-21s planes in IAF's combat fleet but has missed several deadlines due to various reasons.

As India aims to market the Tejas, it will face competition from Pakistan's JF 17, built in collaboration with China. The aircraft has already been placed ..

Sri Lanka had recently denied reports that it had evinced interest in the Pakistani plane.

Meanwhile, talking about the indigenous light attack helicopter, Raju said IAF has selected it weapons and HAL is in the process of integrating it.

"By September, we will prove it. From March, we will be flying with weaponised helicopter," he said.

member_29172 · Post by **member_29172** » 30 Jan 2016 08:23

HAL should avoid the media at all costs, all the vested interests will now try to ask where it intends to export and then try to disrupt that.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 30 Jan 2016 09:05

IF we given the contract of 100 LCA Mk-1 to Reliance, they will apply adequate grease such that DDM, Babus, Politicos and 3 legged jarnails will all start loving it.

nirav · Post by **nirav** » 30 Jan 2016 09:23

Defence minister Parrikar did talk of a second production line.. 16+16per annum is incredible capacity..

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 30 Jan 2016 09:32

The LCA makes sense in large numbers. Quantity with decent quality and low cost is what the IAF needs to build a potent force.

IMHO 500 LCAs should be built. Or at least as many as there were/ are Mig-21s in the IAF.

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 30 Jan 2016 10:20

Queries were received about the country's indigenous Light Combat Aircraft Tejas for possible export, during the recently held Bahrain air show, HAL chief T Suvarna Raju today said but refused to identify the interested countries.

He also asserted that the first upgraded Tejas with better radar, missiles system, mid-air refueling capability, would be handed over to the force by 2018.

"We have got inquiries for LCA already," Raju said as he lauded the aircraft's performance at this month's Bahrain air show.

Asked for the names of countries which have evinced interest, Raju told PTI, "Believe us when I say there are inquiries for LCA."

"Out of the 338 LRUs, more than 200 have been produced in India. We will deliver SP2 in March and another six during the next financial year (2015-16). Subsequently we are capable of scaling up the numbers to eight and more,"

Dr R K Tyagi - Jan 18, 2015
Chairman HAL

_____________________________________________________________________________

I wish to heaven they'd keep their gobs shut when they're not in a position to deliver. If something takes time, it takes time. So be it. But somehow that doesn't stop them from making grand proclamations to the press, grinding away their credibility.

I wish the defence minister would actually bust heads like he promised. Get an outsider in to head the place, preferably from the private sector. No insider is every going clean up the cultural morass that HAL's comfortable monopoly has generated.

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 30 Jan 2016 11:33

Gyan wrote:IF we given the contract of 100 LCA Mk-1 to Reliance, they will apply adequate grease such that DDM, Babus, Politicos and 3 legged jarnails will all start loving it.

You don't become successful tech company with "baniya mentality". My observation is, only those companies survive in long term which have will and passion for excellence in technology/innovation in their DNA, which comes from the leadership of the company. For most of the tech leader companies this has been passed down right by the founders who themselves were innovators. Reliance will perhaps build few LCAs by hooks or by crooks, but that's about it. We will just create a private "HAL" and one which it even worse at it. If we have to give opportunity to pvt player, we better give it to a company which has capability to sustain itself in long run and become tech leader in future providing indigenous solutions for our needs. We will not have many such opportunities. We better not squander it on Reliance. here are other better pvt Indian players eager to take up things, who have already invested in aerospace. What is Reliance's contribution to Aerospace till date anyway??

Also I would rather have desi products being accepted through hard toil than by just applying "grease". We better clean up the need to apply grease else foreign OEMs have much more grease to apply to displace desi products any day. The system is broken and any amount of grease will not work for long. We need to overhaul the system - eliminate these grease hungry cogs from the wheel.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 30 Jan 2016 12:00

Nation also does not become great by Import mentality. Also baniyas have done a lot for the nation but you make it sound derogatory. Also reference to Reliance was as an example, one can replace it with TATAs, Mahindra, Infosys, Goenkas, L&T, Godrej. Take your pick or make your own choice.

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 30 Jan 2016 12:07

Kakkaji totally agree!

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 30 Jan 2016 16:24

What Reliance and other Pvt players will guarantee over the sarkaari HAL is delivery targets will be met as you put it "by hook or by crook". This is especially required at this stage. All the employees will become accountable and can no longer say chalta hai.
Any afsar trying to give any excuse or not doing what is required will have his ass royally whipped and will be rightfully kicked out.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 30 Jan 2016 16:46

Guys please stop using the name Reliance. They are new to defense manufacturing. Just born baby. Forget about selling anything, has not made any product till now. Possibly after 10 to 15 years we can talk about them. Until then it's the Tata's, L&T, Taneja, Godrej, Kalyani group, Mahindra Aerospace etc in private manufacturing including thousands of mini companies. Give credit to those who really do it, not to the one with lot of money to throw around. Also the Sarkaari companies are doing far far better than private players in many areas because they are doing these for decades.A fine example is the delivery schedule of Saryu class vessels and we have not heard anything about Pipavav made patrol vessels for the last many years. The Private players are taking baby steps in building the complete product, especially something complex like a ship.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 30 Jan 2016 19:12

This Video of Tejas at the airshow is watched by 112,962 people till now.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 30 Jan 2016 19:17

^can JKG36O/ the youtube video owner give more metrics - country wise?