LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

enaiel · Post by **enaiel** » 21 Feb 2016 03:04

People seem to be forgetting that over the next 20 years, IAF will have to decommission 19 squadrons (everything except the MKIs). Current potential orders will only give us 11 more squadrons (6xLCA + 2xRafale + 3xFGFA). IAF needs 8 more squadrons to just maintain current strength of 37 squadrons, 13 more to reach 42, and 26 more to reach 55!

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 21 Feb 2016 04:41

We would have only 6 MRTT/FRAs in addition to the existing 7 x Il78s. Enough?

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 21 Feb 2016 06:41

Can someone repost this with some better music please? The existing soundtrack was fine in the 'trailer' but started to grate when it looped around for the third time. Overall nice video, but the camera-work on the ground is still shaky and that in the cockpit doesn't show the best parts of the display (-ve G-turn was still interesting).

FULL VIDEO, 18 Feb 2016 -

The best official Tejas video IMO still remains the one from Iron Fist 2013.

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 21 Feb 2016 06:43

But for sheer detail nothing beats -

P.S. - Please watch all of the above in HD.

srai · Post by **srai** » 21 Feb 2016 06:48

SaiK wrote:We would have only 6 MRTT/FRAs in addition to the existing 7 x Il78s. Enough?

With every combat and transport plane having an IFR capability, the IAF needs to invest much more heavily into its MRTT fleet. For instance, Su-30MKI, in the recent years, were tasked to perform round trip combat duties in the Eastern sector taking off from their Western airbases. Other is providing coverage to A&N from mainland bases. Probably a minimum would be at least 24 tankers to facilitate such internal combat fleet movement as well top offs near border areas during ingress/egress. From ingress pov, this would also allow max bomb loads to be carried at take off (with less fuel) and then top off while in air. Max ranges could be attempted as well knowing tankers are in position at egress.

IMO, rather than trying to desperately increase combat fleet squadrons (i.e. at ridiculous prices EUR 12 billion for 36 Rafales) the IAF should try to maximize potential of existing types through extensive use of force multipliers, like MRTT, and in sufficient quantities. Why not use that EUR 12 billion (or at least part of it) on increasing force multipliers, such as 12 AWACS, 24 MRTT, 24 escort EW & SEAD/DEAD aircraft, other ISR aircraft, stand-off PGMs, individual ECCM suite and fleet LCC improvements?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 21 Feb 2016 08:20

Exactly the discussions I want to trigger.

It is not just about 200 or 500 LCAs. what are the ops and support systems in place, and required?

If you consider that, Rafale would bankrupt defence budget in 5 years flat!

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 21 Feb 2016 17:35

http://www.ibtimes.co.in/lca-tejas-mk-2 ... ief-667693

I thought Mk1A from HAL will have the Elta, and the Mk2 the UTTAM. mmmm..

member_28990 · Post by **member_28990** » 21 Feb 2016 19:15

SaiK wrote:http://www.ibtimes.co.in/lca-tejas-mk-2 ... ief-667693

I thought Mk1A from HAL will have the Elta, and the Mk2 the UTTAM. mmmm..

we will probably see the uttam in the AMCA

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 22 Feb 2016 02:41

we can't engage such important LRUs like how we did Kaveri. There should be definitive plan to port these into couple of demonstrators. If we think Kaveri K9 has achieved the 81kN wet, we must use it in a prototype. what is preventing that? I can never understand any reasons for this other than utter failure or extremely evil politics. sorry for being pessimistic for not seeing progress

Kailash · Post by **Kailash** » 22 Feb 2016 10:49

^^^
There were news bits of serious issues that came up in Russian tests of Kaveri like cracked blades etc - not sure how true they are. In my view, ADA should retain 4-5 LCAs for themselves to further research on testing different engines, radars, upgraded LRUs, software changes, electronic warfare version of tejas etc. Testing can happen simultaneously with HAL production and changes can be integrated straight back into the assembly line. This will really speed up the research without biting into IAFs numbers. This is probably the one flexibility we didn't have with any imported platform.

Even if Kaveri doesnt feature in a combat variant of Tejas, a LIFT version of the craft without the combat gear should be flown and eventually certified. There is a market out there for LIFT and it could also be a feeder into our exports, in case the US decides to pull the rug from under us on the engines.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 22 Feb 2016 11:32

Engine testing does not happen on a single engine plane. nor on a two engined one. buy.a.testbed.if.you.are.serious. Or at least depute/retire and modify a 76.

srai · Post by **srai** » 22 Feb 2016 11:49

^^^

Multiple testbeds are needed for Kaveri-sized engine.

Large Instrumented Platform -> IL-76-type for developmental flight tests
Twin-engined jet -> MiG-29
Single-engined jet -> LCA

arunsrinivasan · Post by **arunsrinivasan** » 22 Feb 2016 15:06

Air force, DRDO, pleased with Tejas performance at Bahrain

Please click on the link to see video of Tejas at Bahrain. Sorry I was not able to embed the video, not sure if this was already posted.

Air force, DRDO, pleased with Tejas performance at Bahrain
Business Standard brings you the first official account of Tejas' first international outing
Ajai Shukla | New Delhi
February 22, 2016 Last Updated at 13:20 IST

In a milestone for India’s Tejas light combat aircraft (LCA), two Tejas fighters travelled from India to perform aerobatics at the Bahrain International Air Show (BIAS-2016) from January 21-23. Business Standard has obtained the first official account of this first international outing, where the Tejas impressed global aerospace experts, taking an important first step towards export in the future.

This official account comes from the Indian Air Force (IAF), which is overseeing the flight test programme of the Tejas; and from the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), the Defence R&D Organisation body responsible for the Tejas programme.

The proposal for this outing was initiated by the Kingdom of Bahrain, which invited the defence ministry in September 2015 to display the Tejas in BIAS-2016. Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar quickly gave the go-ahead for the Tejas, and also the Embraer-mounted Airborne Early Warning System (AEWS), to travel to Bahrain.

It required a major organisational effort to get two Tejas fighters, three pilots and a fully equipped maintenance team from Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) to Bahrain. Only then could the Tejas display its “Made-for Bahrain” aerobatics, showcasing its performance in vertical climbs, tight turns, high-speed runs and slow-flying ability.

The IAF detailed one of its giant C-17 Globemaster IIIs to transport the maintenance team and equipment to Bahrain. Two Tejas fighters flew three legs, over three days — the first from Bangalore to Jamnagar, Gujarat (1,800 km); the second to Muscat (1,200 km), and the final leg to Bahrain (850 km).

The Indian Navy supported the flight over the Arabian Sea. The pilots were provided sea survival training at the new Water Survival Training Facility at Kochi. During the flights between Jamnagar and Muscat, the Navy kept one P8-I maritime aircraft airborne throughout, in case a rescue was needed.

Commodore (Retired) CD Balaji, who heads ADA, says: “The Bahraini authorities made us extremely welcome. Their minister for transportation personally came to the airport to receive the Tejas fighters when they flew in. The King of Bahrain came to our stall during the exhibition. We gifted him a model of the Tejas.”

Balaji confirms that the Pakistani light fighter, the JF-17 Thunder, was to come to Bahrain but pulled out at the last minute — it has been speculated that the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) realised it would be overshadowed by the Tejas.

“We don’t know why Pakistan pulled out the JF-17. But, yes, it was scheduled to be at Bahrain. Its parking slot, which was next to ours, was eventually occupied by the Eurofighter,” says Balaji.

The Tejas’ flight displays went off flawlessly, with pilots from the National Flight Test Centre in Bengaluru having put together a special “product demonstration” performance, which showcased for potential customers the operational performance that makes it a combat-worthy fighter — such as the ability to climb quickly and turn tightly.

The IAF, which is traditionally measured in its evaluation of the Tejas, says the fighter’s “control harmony is comparable to the best in the world… The intuitive cockpit layout and highly reliable life support systems provide for comfort as well as excellent situational awareness.”

Authoritatively detailing the Tejas’ performance parameters, the IAF says: “The LCA has a very competitive and cotemporary operational envelope. It is capable of operations up to an altitude of 50,000 feet and a maximum speed of 1.6 Mach at [high] altitudes or 730 knots… at low levels. The aircraft [can turn at] +8G to -2.5G (which allows it to U-turn in 350 metres) in operationally clean configuration… or +6G to -2.5G with other external stores.”

The IAF sums up: “The LCA Mark 1 was designed as a worthy indigenous replacement to the MiG fleet that has been the backbone of the defence of our skies for several decades. It is a safe and contemporary design with a reliable and efficient engine and many modern features. The aircraft is cockpit-friendly, agile and easy to fly. It is this capability that was displayed in the recently concluded Bahrain International Air Show… Serial production of the aircraft by HAL has started and it is expected that the fighter will be operationally inducted by IAF in 2016.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 22 Feb 2016 15:49

Someone pass the tissue please....

Bharadwaj · Post by **Bharadwaj** » 22 Feb 2016 16:09

Is this for real or am I dreaming....

sankum · Post by **sankum** » 22 Feb 2016 16:17

a maximum speed of 1.6 Mach at [high] altitudes or 730 knots… at low levels

Which means 1350 Km/hour max speed at low level and 1700 Km/hr at high altitude.

rohiths · Post by **rohiths** » 22 Feb 2016 16:23

Given the comparable planes, I think Tejas can be pushed to Max speed of 1.8 Mach to 2.0 Mach with a 80kN thrust given that it is not carrying any bomb payload

srai · Post by **srai** » 22 Feb 2016 18:09

Good article. Thumbs up to the IAF's summarization of LCA at the end!

Now ... HAL deliver

enaiel · Post by **enaiel** » 22 Feb 2016 18:30

Speechless... never thought this day would come before induction!

I saw a change in IAF's attitude towards domestic products in October itself in this interview: http://www.sps-aviation.com/story_issue ... ticle=1723

vina · Post by **vina** » 22 Feb 2016 18:43

Which means 1350 Km/hour max speed

Maharaj Ji. The calibrated air speed is 1350km/h . That is all it means in Inglees. You can pull the CAS/Altitude /envelope graph and decipher the rest yourself.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 22 Feb 2016 18:45

dual pylons dual pylons with 8 x helina for Tejas and Hawk in CAS role.

nirav · Post by **nirav** » 22 Feb 2016 18:47

^ add Spice 250 for stand off Precision bombing.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 22 Feb 2016 18:59

As great as this news is, the loss of those SF men in J&K has completely overshadowed it. Can't get the image of Capt Pawan standing at the station out of my mind. Must have been on the way to meet his family. Sorry, wont post here and be a wet blanket.

Anyways, kudos LCA team and good going IAF.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 22 Feb 2016 19:20

get outta here ddm, you have no biz in reporting good news! heck, that is the feeling. or was it ddm or ddmities infested reporting system or politics of buy vs make thus far?

besides the fantastic feeling to read such news. of course, the chippandas will start sleepless nights till they achieve their stealth fighters (I mean it on RCS alone)

“We don’t know why Pakistan pulled out the JF-17. But, yes, it was scheduled to be at Bahrain. Its parking slot, which was next to ours, was eventually occupied by the Eurofighter,” says Balaji.

we did out maneuver the EF2Ks on many fronts then for them having taken the paki spot!

member_28990 · Post by **member_28990** » 22 Feb 2016 19:43

as a certain parsee gentleman had once remarked

Is this the real life?
Is this just fantasy?
Caught in a landslide,
No escape from reality.

Open your eyes,
Look up to the skies and see,
I'm just a poor boy, I need no sympathy,
Because I'm easy come, easy go,
Little high, little low,
Anyway the wind blows doesn't really matter to me, to me.

Now lets get that assembly line rolling

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 Feb 2016 19:52

arunsrinivasan wrote:Air force, DRDO, pleased with Tejas performance at Bahrain

Please click on the link to see video of Tejas at Bahrain. Sorry I was not able to embed the video, not sure if this was already posted.

Here's my edited video with subtitles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NRNCVQRJWs

Also trying to do a comparison video with F-16 - because Tejas compares favourably (I would not make the video if it didn't!!)

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 22 Feb 2016 20:16

My eyes popped out on reading that IAF quote on the Tejas. Fervently hoping that we have turned the corner with Vayu Bhavan. HAL, it's now your match to lose, so better don't screw it up - please stick to your promised schedule.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 22 Feb 2016 20:22

Where is Shukla ji quoting from? He's quoting these without acknowledging the source and there are no such quotes in any other media.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 22 Feb 2016 21:37

I can expect increased traffic on Rafale, PAKFA and the usual noise from Gripen and SH to pick up now!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Feb 2016 21:54

We should credit ACM Raha for overseeing the LCA development phase through completion.

He will go down in the history books.

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 22 Feb 2016 21:55

arunsrinivasan wrote:Air force, DRDO, pleased with Tejas performance at Bahrain

Please click on the link to see video of Tejas at Bahrain. Sorry I was not able to embed the video, not sure if this was already posted.

Air force, DRDO, pleased with Tejas performance at Bahrain
Business Standard brings you the first official account of Tejas' first international outing
Ajai Shukla | New Delhi
February 22, 2016 Last Updated at 13:20 IST

In a milestone for India’s Tejas light combat aircraft (LCA), two Tejas fighters travelled from India to perform aerobatics at the Bahrain International Air Show (BIAS-2016) from January 21-23. Business Standard has obtained the first official account of this first international outing, where the Tejas impressed global aerospace experts, taking an important first step towards export in the future.

This official account comes from the Indian Air Force (IAF), which is overseeing the flight test programme of the Tejas; and from the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), the Defence R&D Organisation body responsible for the Tejas programme.

The proposal for this outing was initiated by the Kingdom of Bahrain, which invited the defence ministry in September 2015 to display the Tejas in BIAS-2016. Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar quickly gave the go-ahead for the Tejas, and also the Embraer-mounted Airborne Early Warning System (AEWS), to travel to Bahrain.

It required a major organisational effort to get two Tejas fighters, three pilots and a fully equipped maintenance team from Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) to Bahrain. Only then could the Tejas display its “Made-for Bahrain” aerobatics, showcasing its performance in vertical climbs, tight turns, high-speed runs and slow-flying ability.

The IAF detailed one of its giant C-17 Globemaster IIIs to transport the maintenance team and equipment to Bahrain. Two Tejas fighters flew three legs, over three days — the first from Bangalore to Jamnagar, Gujarat (1,800 km); the second to Muscat (1,200 km), and the final leg to Bahrain (850 km).

The Indian Navy supported the flight over the Arabian Sea. The pilots were provided sea survival training at the new Water Survival Training Facility at Kochi. During the flights between Jamnagar and Muscat, the Navy kept one P8-I maritime aircraft airborne throughout, in case a rescue was needed.

Commodore (Retired) CD Balaji, who heads ADA, says: “The Bahraini authorities made us extremely welcome. Their minister for transportation personally came to the airport to receive the Tejas fighters when they flew in. The King of Bahrain came to our stall during the exhibition. We gifted him a model of the Tejas.”

Balaji confirms that the Pakistani light fighter, the JF-17 Thunder, was to come to Bahrain but pulled out at the last minute — it has been speculated that the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) realised it would be overshadowed by the Tejas.

“We don’t know why Pakistan pulled out the JF-17. But, yes, it was scheduled to be at Bahrain. Its parking slot, which was next to ours, was eventually occupied by the Eurofighter,” says Balaji.

The Tejas’ flight displays went off flawlessly, with pilots from the National Flight Test Centre in Bengaluru having put together a special “product demonstration” performance, which showcased for potential customers the operational performance that makes it a combat-worthy fighter — such as the ability to climb quickly and turn tightly.

The IAF, which is traditionally measured in its evaluation of the Tejas, says the fighter’s “control harmony is comparable to the best in the world… The intuitive cockpit layout and highly reliable life support systems provide for comfort as well as excellent situational awareness.”

Authoritatively detailing the Tejas’ performance parameters, the IAF says: “The LCA has a very competitive and cotemporary operational envelope. It is capable of operations up to an altitude of 50,000 feet and a maximum speed of 1.6 Mach at [high] altitudes or 730 knots… at low levels. The aircraft [can turn at] +8G to -2.5G (which allows it to U-turn in 350 metres) in operationally clean configuration… or +6G to -2.5G with other external stores.”

The IAF sums up: “The LCA Mark 1 was designed as a worthy indigenous replacement to the MiG fleet that has been the backbone of the defence of our skies for several decades. It is a safe and contemporary design with a reliable and efficient engine and many modern features. The aircraft is cockpit-friendly, agile and easy to fly. It is this capability that was displayed in the recently concluded Bahrain International Air Show… Serial production of the aircraft by HAL has started and it is expected that the fighter will be operationally inducted by IAF in 2016.

Let this post be the one every future LCA thread starts with.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 22 Feb 2016 22:12

Enough information to order 100 of Mk1 alone with all those changes required.
Let us just focus on Mk2 rather HAL's dream of Mk1 A.

Mk1 and Mk2 is logical step. A is just a marketing tag

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Feb 2016 22:14

Er SaiK, The Mk 1A is needed. The LRU rearrangement for maintenance etc,

member_23694 · Post by **member_23694** » 22 Feb 2016 22:59

Let this post be the one every future LCA thread starts with

Not sure what is new that Mr Shukla has come up with.

Further not Surprisingly 1A is the timeline for promised MK.2 by earlier top bosses from ADA/DRDO. MK.2 going AMCA proto time line. AMCA ?
Tejas is good no doubt but time to market to keep user's interest is also important.
Hope there is real push to pre pone 1A timelines. Every thing is just at too leisure pace

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 22 Feb 2016 23:28

Who is IAF in this article, a spokesman/an officer/a TP delegated to test program? Why use anonymous folks even for making awesome comments.

ACM Arup Raha, if thats you sir please step forward and say it

. Its like asking Agent Scully to admit that UFOs exists.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 22 Feb 2016 23:54

of course.. it is a given, if not mentioned.

w.o special ajint fox mulder, scully would not have gotten this close to see it flying.
next: scully will report on how stealthy it is! [of course she and her instruments were blinded when the real telemetry data received/darn these UFOs].

member_29294 · Post by **member_29294** » 23 Feb 2016 00:51

^

I had a feeling such approval from IAF would come as the plane is now being shown off and tested.

We has seen such behavior before from IAF on new planes. There will be reports and statements that IAF is not in favor of this or that, etc. Then once they get the plane and develop a sense of ownership they will not let it go. More will be ordered and Tejas will be heavily upgraded and become a mainstay of IAF for many decades to come.

srai · Post by **srai** » 23 Feb 2016 05:10

ramana wrote:Er SaiK, The Mk 1A is needed. The LRU rearrangement for maintenance etc,

Those things could have happened progressively in tranches/blocks or at MLU. There is a big risk right now trying to go for all of those features post first lot of 20 Mk.1 production (i.e. by 2018-19). Hopefully, there is some sense to continue production with "what-is-ready" at that time to keep the flow on-going. Let it not be like Arjun MBT program where a hard-stop to production for over 3-years occurred between Mk.1 and Mk.2.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Feb 2016 05:51

Rearranging the LRUs is good for upping the sortie rate as total numbers are low. So its needed.
Is the gun part of Mk1A?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 23 Feb 2016 05:58

dhiraj wrote:
Let this post be the one every future LCA thread starts with
Not sure what is new that Mr Shukla has come up with.

I have never heard these sentences before, even in different words

The IAF, which is traditionally measured in its evaluation of the Tejas, says the fighter’s “control harmony is comparable to the best in the world… The intuitive cockpit layout and highly reliable life support systems provide for comfort as well as excellent situational awareness.”

Authoritatively detailing the Tejas’ performance parameters, the IAF says: “The LCA has a very competitive and cotemporary operational envelope. It is capable of operations up to an altitude of 50,000 feet and a maximum speed of 1.6 Mach at [high] altitudes or 730 knots… at low levels. The aircraft [can turn at] +8G to -2.5G (which allows it to U-turn in 350 metres) in operationally clean configuration… or +6G to -2.5G with other external stores.”