LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

All threads that are locked or marked for deletion will be moved to this forum. The topics will be cleared from this archive on the 1st and 16th of each month.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53894
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby ramana » 25 Feb 2016 21:32

It would be nice to know how much the range improved with the new quartz radome? Did it really make the difference?
and the plans to make the radome in India for future LCAs.

Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7881
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Indranil » 25 Feb 2016 21:33

AKM wrote:Hello guys. Just got enrolled to BR, officially!

Welcome! Much awaited.

member_28108
BRFite
Posts: 1852
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby member_28108 » 25 Feb 2016 21:45

^^
Bengaluru: India Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas achieved yet anothermilestone ahead of the Final Operational Clearance (FOC) on Wednesday.

Sources confirmed to 'Mathrubhumi' on Thursday that the Limited Series Production (LSP-3) variant of Tejas had its first flight fitted with the new quartz radome from Cobham.

<p>The flight was piloted by Group Capt Rangachari, a Test Pilot with National Flight Test Centre, Bengaluru. During a recent visit to the Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) Tejas Division in Bengaluru, Mathrubhumi had witnessed the last-minute preparations being undertaken on the LSP-3 fitted with the new radome.</p>

<p>The young team of engineers and technicians from the Tejas Division were seen working on the aircraft for its significant mission.</p>

<p>As reported in these columns earlier, the Cobham radome was delivered to HAL-ADA team in August 2015. The project had delayed owing to the delay in receiving the radome along with some of the other systems.</p>

<p>Sources say that the initial couple of flights of LSP-3 might not test the full range of the radome. LSP-3 has been flying as part of the Tejas flightline for the last six years. It had its first flight on April 30, 2010, piloted by Wg Cdr G Thomas of NFTC.</p>

<p>&ldquo;The test points and other parameters of the radome will be tested in future flights. When any new equipment is fitted to a fighter platform after a long AOG (Aircraft on Ground) status, first priority is always given to check the general behaviour of the aircraft,&rdquo; says an official.</p>

<p>Dr K Tamil Mani, Director-General (Aeronautical Systems), Defence Research and Development Organisation had told this correspondent in an earlier interview last year that the quartz radome would increase the radar range from the current 45-50 km to 80 km and above.</p>

<p>Post Bahrain air show, Team Tejas at HAL has been on their toes ensuring the aircraft variants are made available for various missions.
Last edited by ramana on 25 Feb 2016 21:50, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Added bold. ramana

Sid
BRFite
Posts: 1640
Joined: 19 Mar 2006 13:26

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Sid » 25 Feb 2016 23:11

AKM wrote:Hello guys. Just got enrolled to BR, officially!


Welcome tarmak007 :)

SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36400
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby SaiK » 25 Feb 2016 23:34

might not test the full range of (the radar using the) Cobham radome seems interesting.

why?

Sid
BRFite
Posts: 1640
Joined: 19 Mar 2006 13:26

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Sid » 25 Feb 2016 23:36

SaiK wrote:might not test the full range of (the radar using the) Cobham radome seems interesting.

why?


Only for first couple of flights. Maybe they will test basic aerodynamic performance before jumping to full fledged testing.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53894
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby ramana » 26 Feb 2016 00:01

Need to establish baseline performance with new radome.

Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4772
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Kartik » 26 Feb 2016 00:20

AKM wrote:Hello guys. Just got enrolled to BR, officially!


Welcome Anant. Good to see you here finally!

Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4772
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Kartik » 26 Feb 2016 00:23

One question AKM - is that pic of the Tejas posted in the article sporting the quartz radome or is that just a general picture of LSP-3 from earlier?

Gagan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11202
Joined: 16 Apr 2008 22:25

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Gagan » 26 Feb 2016 01:10

Welcome to BRF AKM!
U can link pictures from your blog too.
Just upload pictures to your blog, copy image location, paste image location here within [img] [ /img] links!

Eagerly waiting for your posts, pictures and updates !

SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36400
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby SaiK » 26 Feb 2016 03:53

welcome aboard sir!

Shreeman
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3762
Joined: 17 Jan 2007 15:31
Location: bositiveneuj.blogspot.com
Contact:

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Shreeman » 26 Feb 2016 03:58

indranilroy wrote:
AKM wrote:Hello guys. Just got enrolled to BR, officially!

Welcome! Much awaited.

Indeed.

Now can you please cut down on the self promotion in your writing? If you are writing it then "sources did confirm to ...." and "....was witness to" is understood and clear. This takes up space where you could have reported how much the range improved, if any of the other SPs are coming along, what about inflight refueling, and how many radomes were received, is the brake problem a thing of the past, how ling was the flight and what flight params, did they turn on the radar and so on. Instead half of the article is gloating about how you got to witness history and no one else did.

Of course, pointing this means you will make a beeline for that ayeeffem form to whine like the other ones did.

SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36400
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby SaiK » 26 Feb 2016 04:11

Ask not what you want him to do.
Ask what you want from him (content)rather.

He is free to project himself any which way he wants. I'm sure you will not read him if there is no meat, but only masala.

srai
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4400
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby srai » 26 Feb 2016 04:12

AKM wrote:Hello guys. Just got enrolled to BR, officially!

Great! Really appreciate the clarity you are providing on the progress of indigenous products like the LCA.

AKM wrote:How do we upload pix here?


Here's an example using img tags:

Code: Select all

[img]http://english.mathrubhumi.com/polopoly_fs/1.889545.1456417800!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_607/image.jpg[/img]


That will look like this in the post:
Image

---------
Here's an example using youtube tags:

Code: Select all

[youtube]snlKpVEupSY[/youtube]


That will look like this in the post:

srai
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4400
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby srai » 26 Feb 2016 04:22

AKM,

Many here would love to know the current progress of the LCA SP production at HAL along with some pictures of what the assembly floor looks like right now ... with a bunch of LCAs in various stages of build! :)

Also along that note, maybe a series of articles highlighting the work going on in plants of various Tier-1 to 3 manufacturers/suppliers involved in the production of LCAs. Who are they and what their manufacturing looks like?

Team LCA gears up for increased orders

...

Sources in HAL said given the Centre's Make in India campaign and to save on time, outsourcing some manufacturing has happened and a few other projects are in the pipeline. The wing assembly has been outsourced to L&T, while 10 vendors will be in the fray for the centre and rear fuselage, for which tenders will be floated soon. "Outsourcing of 33 electrical panels, six mechanical assembly projects making of fin and rudder, etc is under way," they said.

...

Khalsa
BRFite
Posts: 1620
Joined: 12 Nov 2000 12:31
Location: NZL

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Khalsa » 26 Feb 2016 04:42

Great milestone achieved ..... was this one of the FOC requirements or a milestone from the Mk1b pathway ?
(New Radome)

srai
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4400
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby srai » 26 Feb 2016 04:59

^^^

FOC. This new Quartz radome offering 80+km detection ranges is required for a more complete BVR integration, where max radar detection ranges (of 2 sqm targets) will match ranges offered by a missile like Derby-ER.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53894
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby ramana » 26 Feb 2016 06:26

srai, Since you have been keeping track, do we have a list of the improvements and the four items to be integrated?

BTW Feb is drawing near and we haven't heard of Derby firing at a target.

Maybe Tarmak can find out.

SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36400
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby SaiK » 26 Feb 2016 07:06

BTW, Astra is supposed to be ready this year end. Hopefully we can see that integration as well.

jayasimha
BRFite
Posts: 400
Joined: 09 Feb 2011 17:31

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby jayasimha » 26 Feb 2016 07:30

Image

well just trying again,,, when i did last week it dint work..

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby shiv » 26 Feb 2016 08:32

jayasimha wrote:Image

well just trying again,,, when i did last week it dint work..

Jayasimha I don't think you can link Google images directly. You have to log into the Google photo account and select the "share" option that gives you a url that you can copy paste here

Bhaskar_T
BRFite
Posts: 272
Joined: 13 Feb 2011 19:09

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Bhaskar_T » 26 Feb 2016 10:19

Shreeman ji, at the risk of inviting wrath from an oldie like you, I am shocked to see you "unwelcoming" one of our good (& rare) defence journalists and a new BRF member.

Coming to your allegation of "self-promotion", I see the "sources did confirm to ...." and "....was witness to" as genuine way of adding authenticity to the reporting. If the article says, the author of the article himself has witnessed the preparation and execution of Cobham Radome fitting, finding it as "self-promotion" within very few hours of fellow member joining BRF is condemnable. After all, how many defence journalists reported (or reports such news) LSP-3 flying with Cobham. :cry: Sir - Be positive. Don't you appreciate, authentic reporting than usual Chaiwala/Panwala news? I understand such good news of progress on LCA Tejas frustrates us all but shooting down the messenger in Indian defence context is like "Kangali mein Aata Geela" :roll:

Secondly, the article itself mentioned that the full range has not been tested so why would you ask something which has already been clarified in the article?

Other questions are valid and good ones, but polite questioning would be much appreciated. AKM is not here to respond to all the LCA queries but a defence jingo like us equally happy to contribute the way BRF members do.

Kind Regards,
Abdul Onlee.

Shreeman wrote: Indeed.

Now can you please cut down on the self promotion in your writing? If you are writing it then "sources did confirm to ...." and "....was witness to" is understood and clear. This takes up space where you could have reported how much the range improved, if any of the other SPs are coming along, what about inflight refueling, and how many radomes were received, is the brake problem a thing of the past, how ling was the flight and what flight params, did they turn on the radar and so on. Instead half of the article is gloating about how you got to witness history and no one else did.

Of course, pointing this means you will make a beeline for that ayeeffem form to whine like the other ones did.

Bhaskar_T
BRFite
Posts: 272
Joined: 13 Feb 2011 19:09

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Bhaskar_T » 26 Feb 2016 10:37

So, 3 Tejas (including one on stand by mode) will be flying to JamNagar on 2nd March and then onwards to Jaisalmer to participate in Iron Fist. So, in next 4 days (27th Feb - 1st Mar), if these Tejas are indeed the ones which were ready to fire Derby and Python-5 while halting at Jamnagar enroute to Bahrain around mid-January, the chances are probably low of these missiles being fired until end of Iron-Fist. (Last Derby was fired under BNG, Ballistic Non Guided, mode).

http://www.oneindia.com/india/oneindia-special-tejas-ready-to-spit-fire-during-iron-fist-2024679.html


Bengaluru, Feb 26: Within a month after scripting history in Bahrain with its maiden flying display outside Indian skies, the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas is ready for the next mission. Sources confirm to OneIndia on Thursday that two Tejas variants are likely to be part of the upcoming Iron Fist, set to begin on March 18.

A total of three Tejas variants will be made ‘hot-ready' for Iron Fist, with one being on the stand-by mode. In an interview to OneIndia, during the IAF's 83rd anniversary celebrations in 2015, a top Aeronautical Development Agency official had said that Tejas would be demonstrating the weapon firing skills during Iron Fist-2016. "Tejas will be demonstrating the BVR (Beyond Visual Range) missile launching and stick bombing capabilities with tandem bomb carrier in swing role," the official had said.

Interestingly, Tejas had recently demonstrated firing the Beyond Visual Range Air-to-Air Missile Derby at Jamnagar. It is expected to fire the Close Combat Missile Python-5 soon. Iron Fist is IAF's largest fire power demonstration event with the network-centric warfare capabilities being exhibited to fullest. It is scheduled to begin at the Chandan Field Firing Range in Jaisalmer from March 18. The IAF had demonstrated its day-dusk-night operational capabilities during Iron Fist-2013. Two variants of Tejas had participated during the 2013 show held in the month of February. Over 200 aircraft demonstrated their capabilities spread across five days in 2013. The President, the PM and a host of other top officials are expected to witness Iron Fist-2016.

Meanwhile, Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) Airport witnessed a significant event on Wednesday, February 24, with the Limited Series Production (LSP-3) variant of Tejas flying with a new quartz radome from Cobham, UK. The flight was piloted by Group Capt Rangachari and the new radome is expected to increase the radar range to 80 km and beyond. With Iron Fist-2016 round the corner, it's action time for HAL's Tejas Division in Bengaluru. Year 2016 has been a busy year for the Tejas Division with Bahrain air show, weapon trials at Jamnagar and now Iron Fist. An IAF official says that the Tejas team has been asked to report at Jaisalmer on March 2. "The HAL detachments will be moving to Jamnagar first and then to Jaisalmer. There is no bigger and better coordinated event for IAF. Not even the air show in Bengaluru (Aero India)," says the IAF official.


srai
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4400
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby srai » 26 Feb 2016 10:53

ramana wrote:srai, Since you have been keeping track, do we have a list of the improvements and the four items to be integrated?

BTW Feb is drawing near and we haven't heard of Derby firing at a target.

Maybe Tarmak can find out.


Weapon testing is a time consuming exercise. From what I read on F-22 weapon testing and qualification, the amount of prep required for every launch was around a month or so. They were able to bypass a whole lot of actual testing through computer modeling/studies and composite testing (i.e. test as many parameters in one test).

Weapons that have been fully qualified (all launch envelope) so far:
  • CCM -> R-73 (w/ Radar and HMS)
  • Bombs (CCIP/CCRP) -> 1000lb GP, HSLD-250, HSLD-450, PB-500 (Hard-Target Penetration Bomb), Practice Bombs
  • LGB kits w/ Litening pod -> Paveway-2, Griffin-3
  • External Drop Tanks -> 725ltr, 800ltr, 1200ltr
  • ECM - RWR w/ chaff/flares dispensers

Weapons and other things that are undergoing flight qualification for FOC (sometime 2016):
  • BVR -> Derby-ER
  • Quartz radome -> radar range to increase from 50km to 80+km
  • External Drop Tanks -> supersonic (725ltr) ?
  • Tandem Pylon for bombs
  • Flight Envelope expansion (mostly complete) -> +8G/-2.5G, 26 degree AoA, M1.6, hot/cold, sea-level/high altitudes etc.

Additional Weapons/Modifications that are planned by Mk.1A time-frame (~2019):
  • IFR integration
  • AESA radar
  • 23mm Gun
  • Self-Jammer on pylon
  • Cockpit - layout and avionics
  • OBOGS
  • Maintenance -> Internal LRU rearrangement
  • Weight -> some reduction being attempted
  • Weapons -> Spice-250, Astra-1 AAM, Python-5 (?)
  • Flight Expansion -> further envelope expansion
Last edited by srai on 26 Feb 2016 17:50, edited 1 time in total.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53894
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby ramana » 26 Feb 2016 11:05

Thanks a lot. Nice to have a checklist.
T Bhaskar in your post LCA will demo tandem carrier which adds to number of bombs. It also says BVR firing. Maybe against aerial target.

rkhanna
BRFite
Posts: 1160
Joined: 02 Jul 2006 02:35

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby rkhanna » 26 Feb 2016 11:20

Hasnt Astra already been tested and Qualified?

If R-73.. No R-77?!!!

JaiS
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2190
Joined: 01 Mar 2003 12:31
Location: JPEG-jingostan
Contact:

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby JaiS » 26 Feb 2016 11:22

AKM wrote:Hello guys. Just got enrolled to BR, officially!



Welcome to BRF !

Bhaskar_T
BRFite
Posts: 272
Joined: 13 Feb 2011 19:09

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Bhaskar_T » 26 Feb 2016 11:46

rkhanna wrote:Hasnt Astra already been tested and Qualified?

If R-73.. No R-77?!!!


Astra has not been tested and qualified on Tejas (Su 30MKI have had fired Astra many times). The first link below suggests that the Tejas Light combat aircraft armed with an Astra missile was displayed at the Aero India 2015.

The second link (from Nov 2015) below says that according to DRDO Chief Christopher Astra will be ready by Dec 2016. (Now does ready means that Astra available for Su30 MKI only or for all fighters? OR is it Astra-1 (44-60km range) or Astra-2 (100km range) is something which is not clear).

http://www.airforce-technology.com/proj ... sile3.html

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 682035.cms

member_28386
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 9
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby member_28386 » 26 Feb 2016 12:14

It is extremely doubtful that the Tejas/LCA shall use the Astra Air to Air Missile in it's current avatar as the radar and related avionics are of Israeli origin (ELTA/Elbit) on this aircraft while the seeker on the Astra is AGAT of Russian origin.

Thus the natural Air to Air Missile for the Tejas/LCA shall be the Israeli origin Air to Air Missiles the Python and Derby. For the Sukhoi-30MKI, the Astra is perfect as the radar, avionics, seeker on the concerned Aircraft and Missile are Russian in origin.

I might of course be entirely wrong and the simple reason for not using the Astra Missile on the LCA is that the missile itself is still under development and testing.

member_28990
BRFite
Posts: 171
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby member_28990 » 26 Feb 2016 13:24

^ Astra integration is on the roadmap as per the official LCA facebook page

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23772
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby SSridhar » 26 Feb 2016 13:56

rkhanna wrote:Hasnt Astra already been tested and Qualified?

If R-73.. No R-77?!!!

DRDO had said in Dec. 2015 after testing the anti-jamming capabilities of Astra that January 2016 tests would evaluate its performance in different scenarios and cover the entire air launch envelope required before its induction. I am not aware whether these tests took place. DRDO had said that induction would be some time in c. 2016.

However, DRDO had said that Astra would be integrated with Tejas.

Shreeman
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3762
Joined: 17 Jan 2007 15:31
Location: bositiveneuj.blogspot.com
Contact:

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Shreeman » 26 Feb 2016 15:09

Bhaskar_T wrote:Shreeman ji, at the risk of inviting wrath from an oldie like you, I am shocked to see you "unwelcoming" one of our good (& rare) defence journalists and a new BRF member.

Coming to your allegation of "self-promotion", I see the "sources did confirm to ...." and "....was witness to" as genuine way of adding authenticity to the reporting. If the article says, the author of the article himself has witnessed the preparation and execution of Cobham Radome fitting, finding it as "self-promotion" within very few hours of fellow member joining BRF is condemnable. After all, how many defence journalists reported (or reports such news) LSP-3 flying with Cobham. :cry: Sir - Be positive. Don't you appreciate, authentic reporting than usual Chaiwala/Panwala news? I understand such good news of progress on LCA Tejas frustrates us all but shooting down the messenger in Indian defence context is like "Kangali mein Aata Geela" :roll:

Secondly, the article itself mentioned that the full range has not been tested so why would you ask something which has already been clarified in the article?

Other questions are valid and good ones, but polite questioning would be much appreciated. AKM is not here to respond to all the LCA queries but a defence jingo like us equally happy to contribute the way BRF members do.

Kind Regards,
Abdul Onlee.

Shreeman wrote: Indeed.

Now can you please cut down on the self promotion in your writing? If you are writing it then "sources did confirm to ...." and "....was witness to" is understood and clear. This takes up space where you could have reported how much the range improved, if any of the other SPs are coming along, what about inflight refueling, and how many radomes were received, is the brake problem a thing of the past, how ling was the flight and what flight params, did they turn on the radar and so on. Instead half of the article is gloating about how you got to witness history and no one else did.

Of course, pointing this means you will make a beeline for that ayeeffem form to whine like the other ones did.


Bhaskar,

I will not further respond to this here, to avoid further distracting the thread. Happy to address this in the media thread.

I did welcome the gent. I quoted the previous post AND added my "indeed" to it.

The remaining aspects of the post stand as called. The reporting of defense matters is attrocious all around. And being a reporter OR joining this forum do not get you a pass. I could further address the deficiencies in the text but the previous post addressed deficiencies in content.

Now, no less than three countering replies have appeared. I say this to you -- do you think the event would not have been reported elsewhere at all? So why settle for lack of essential information. The reporting in the media and its posting here are mutually exclusive and journalists are NOT saints, religious figures or powerful politicians to be bowed to. Or at least ought not to be. Unlike these other groups, the media you CAN criticize and hope it stings a bit, and if there is quality in the reporting or respect for profession than future reports do not look like a third grade essay.

I give you further food for thought. A mijjile was fired in ballistic carriage non xyz sub pqr mod cde mode by lsp 9. And this further led to excited reporting and lungi dances and much speculation. Exactly what this test or any repititions achieved remains unknown. But people here speculate and fantacize none the less about 100s of deployed platforms. The actual usable development may have been setback for all we know due to this test.

It does not serve to report non-events as events, or events as "minister attended function" events. At this rate, you will glorify the DD coverage of the IFR next, since its better thsn nothing?

Things CAN be better, but if paid advertising (past gents who eventually unceremoniously departed), personal biases and "hurt feelings" (also past gent who unceremoniously departed) or personal soirees (a gent who prefers to post on ayeeffem now) are to be the standard then what sort of checks and balances can possibly exist due to reporting? A reporter isnt there to pride or pat himself on the back, he is there to ask the right questions.

The fact that there are only half a dozen ttotal reporters of this ilk does not get you a pass, it makes your responsibility larger. India is a country of 1B+ people, and you can do what you like in indian languages. When you publish in a foreign language such immature prose, you reduce the stature of the publication and the reported project. After all, clearly matrubhumi could not have seen or published anything without official permission. Is that where things should head? Further downhill?

A few questions on the radar, timeline, testing, *something*, *anything* at least at the level of company press releases would have earned plaudits. This does not. If you waste the opportunity, where reporters do not get any access let alone the opportunity to witness a test event, you deserve criticism.

And to round off: I doubt his thesis advisor would have settled for less.

nirav
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2020
Joined: 31 Aug 2004 00:22
Location: Mumbai

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby nirav » 26 Feb 2016 15:55

Theres a time,place and a way for criticism.Hostility in the name of criticism is not right.
"Welcoming" a new member based on experiences with previous journos is just not right.

ashthor
BRFite
Posts: 197
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 11:35

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby ashthor » 26 Feb 2016 16:12

IAF to induct 8 squadrons 'Tejas' in 8 years: Manohar Parrikar

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... aign=cppst

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23772
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby SSridhar » 26 Feb 2016 16:14

AKM wrote:Hello guys. Just got enrolled to BR, officially!


Hi, welcome to BRf.

I am sure that like any seasoned campaigner, you would just go ahead and do your wonderful reporting without being distracted by negativity.

Post away. We are waiting.

Viv S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5303
Joined: 03 Jan 2010 00:46

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Viv S » 26 Feb 2016 16:19

Shreeman wrote:The remaining aspects of the post stand as called. The reporting of defense matters is attrocious all around. And being a reporter OR joining this forum do not get you a pass. I could further address the deficiencies in the text but the previous post addressed deficiencies in content.

And this couldn't have waited until.. oh I don't know, a few days had passed? One word of welcome, three lines of criticism and one line of abuse. Seeing as he hasn't said anything even mildly offensive, could you find no other way to phrase, what was in your mind, no doubt, 'constructive criticism'?

nirav
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2020
Joined: 31 Aug 2004 00:22
Location: Mumbai

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby nirav » 26 Feb 2016 16:23

ashthor wrote:IAF to induct 8 squadrons 'Tejas' in 8 years: Manohar Parrikar

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... aign=cppst


The math is a bit confusing.

@16/yr is still being established.

8 squads @ 18 per squad = 144. Order intent meanwhile is for 120 and intended capacity @ 16/yr.

DM spoke of second line @ HAL, not private sector.
It makes sense if squad is 16 ac and not 18.

maitya
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 473
Joined: 02 Feb 2001 12:31

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby maitya » 26 Feb 2016 17:38

Kaustav wrote:It is extremely doubtful that the Tejas/LCA shall use the Astra Air to Air Missile in it's current avatar as the radar and related avionics are of Israeli origin (ELTA/Elbit) on this aircraft while the seeker on the Astra is AGAT of Russian origin.

Thus the natural Air to Air Missile for the Tejas/LCA shall be the Israeli origin Air to Air Missiles the Python and Derby. For the Sukhoi-30MKI, the Astra is perfect as the radar, avionics, seeker on the concerned Aircraft and Missile are Russian in origin.

I might of course be entirely wrong and the simple reason for not using the Astra Missile on the LCA is that the missile itself is still under development and testing.

There are two "problems" of integrating a BVR missile with a platform - and both are related to guidance.

Each missile comes with a MRL (Missile Rail Launcher) which, at a very high level, for the default LOBL launches, interfaces with the platform radar for signal and data transfer (which is encoded) for initial target information. As long as the code for allowing this data transfer is available form the missile manufacturer, you are good to go.
Modern BVR missiles then are on "fire-and-forget" mode of using the integral INS to guide itself to a suitable range with the target etc.

But INS has it's own limitations, requiring further position fixes at certain intervals well into it's flight (called mid-course guidance), before the end-game. Now older AAM uses unidirectional data transfer between the radar to the missile while some of the current gen BVR missiles uses bi-directional data transfer. This data-transfer is obviously encrypted and various ECCM features implemented as a significant part of the ECM game for BVR engagements is to confuse the missile in the late mid-course itself.

So not only access to the encryption-decryption key generation algorithms are required, but also some way of "bypassing" the other ECCM features/algorithms on the missile proper is required. Something which is as strong a secret as it gets, as with the access to it, you are virtually disabling the ECCM aspects of the missile control systems.


Either way, you will need two things then to integrate a BVR AAM,
1) access to the source code of the AA scanning, tracking and designating implemented algorithms in the Radar processor/PSPs. Or at the very least, a programmable/re-configurable option on the Radar Processor which will allow this data to be made available, via the MC, to not only the MRL (for LOBL data-transfer) but also directly to the datalink (for mid course guidance) on the missile body as well

2) access to the source code of the datalink on the missile body itself (or atleast a API that can be implemented in the RC to "control" the transmit/receive signals from the radar for missile guidance)

For Astra etc (2) is not an issue - while (1) is not an issue as most probably it's hybrid-version of the 2032 (or maybe we have been provided access to the AA algorithms or atleast the API itself).

For R77 etc it's a huge issue, as Russians wouldn't part with the (2) details above (as will be the case with any foreign BVR AAM). For Derby, it's not an issue anyway as both Radar and the missile belongs to the same manufacturing unit etc.

member_27581
BRFite
Posts: 230
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby member_27581 » 26 Feb 2016 17:51

a very basic question: how many aircrafts in an IAF squadron. Wiki has a wide range of 12-24. on BRF I have been reading numbers e.g. 16-20. Does it also vary across different fighter aircrafts or helicopters.
Thanks in advance

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18837
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Karan M » 26 Feb 2016 17:51

Shreeman, seriously - your post is downright hostile towards one of the rare journos who has been nothing but supportive of local efforts.


Return to “Trash Can Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 28 guests