LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

member_28990 · Post by **member_28990** » 14 May 2016 18:29

shiv wrote:Any American weapon highlighted on History channel or Discovery is full of bombast. Chinese shows too, and even Pakis about the little they make. Somehow Indians thought British style understatement is good and ended up being too diffident and too apologetic

shiv saar, i agree with you. The point I was trying to make is that only in english media our weapons/mil stuff is understated. In regional language media (electronic or print), be it hindi, bengali marathi whatever, our inner jingoness finds full expression.

nirav · Post by **nirav** » 14 May 2016 19:46

Spotted a pigeon in the TV9 LCA feature at 7:47 @ HAL rear fuselage assembly Jig 2. Its in a strategic location to bless the aircraft while its being manufactured.

Oh, those SDRE injuns.

disha · Post by **disha** » 14 May 2016 22:24

Both the videos are great., only flaw in TV9 video is the background scores - blame bollywood culture for that.

TV9 video is very informative and should be shown to all Grade 9-12 kids on how a plane is manufactured and what precision is required. For example no two rivets are arranged in straight but angled pattern! Why? Why a rivet used? How can this be improved to give even more smoother fuselage? How can the productivity be improved? - Excellent educational material and a good discussion jump off for the kids to simulate their creativity.

The hindi one is very apt and required for the aam-admi. They do not care about ASQR or turn rate or climb rate or CHOBAM or GE. All they care is will it kick a$$ when it matters. And reassuring them that it *will* kick a$$ and how it *will* kick a$$ is the job of the program. They might be just sipping coconut water or nimbu paani or laasi or patiala peg and watching the show not caring a hoot about the rivets. In this case the Hindi one does its job very well.

All in all, great coverage.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 15 May 2016 00:02

That TV9 feature is great, the best I have seen on LCA production in many years. Only thing is that music.. comes out of nowhere, every five minutes. Gaaah!

member_28990 · Post by **member_28990** » 15 May 2016 01:39

OT: one of the tracks used in the TV9 video is titled "Battle without honor and humanity" by the great japanese composer tomoyasu hotei. That music was used in the movie kill bill also.

name is apt, considering who the Tejas will face on the frontlines.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 15 May 2016 04:06

TV-9 says will fix RWR in SOP-18. So either new RWR or time till then to work out all the kinks along with SPJ. Both should be retrofit capable to the LCA Mk1s as well. I wonder whether it will be derived from this.
http://www.asianage.com/mumbai/tejas-fl ... -suite-024

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 15 May 2016 19:45

^

“Our chips have to be really strong and impenetrable to withstand jamming signals,”

wouldn't that mean the future is tending towards to be more passive s&t then? with some LPI radar features where the frequency switching can change randomly based on ECC*M measures?

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 16 May 2016 04:21

BTW a lot of hoo haa about LCA IOC and IOC-1 and how pathetic ADA got waivers. Just a gentle reminder to all those folks who revel in claiming that IAF experience with LCA was so unusual.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1993 ... -personnel

Mar 29, 1993

The Air Force's troubled C-17 jet transport has failed its initial operational tests so badly that if the airplane were in service today, it could not parachute troops or supplies into Bosnia or be maintained by Air Force personnel.

The test official, Robert Duncan, said in his report that if major deficiencies in aircraft performance are not fixed, the C-17 will be unable to meet Air Force requirements.

McDonnell Douglas Corp. delivered the first C-17 to the Air Force in mid-1992 with 98 pages of waivers, exemptions and deviations from the contract specifications. It was missing such items as urinals and wingtip navigation lights.

Oh my gawsh
Landing gear issues for the C-17 at launch.

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource. ... ug=1285732

Air Force Letter To Douglas Spells Out 75 Defects For C-17

Los Angeles Times

LONG BEACH, Calif. - The Air Force has notified McDonnell Douglas that its C-17 cargo jet has 75 deficiencies that must be corrected, ranging from a weak main landing gear to inadequate electric generators, according to a letter obtained by the Los Angeles Times.

Senior Air Force officials say the notice - which is the most comprehensive list of C-17 problems to become public - was issued in late March, after the service became concerned that the Douglas Aircraft unit in Long Beach was not putting sufficient effort into solving the problems.

Air Force officials and Douglas spokesmen say the 75 defects do not represent major technical problems that would threaten the viability of the $30 billion program. But the full extent of some problems is still under study, including an analysis of whether the airframe itself will wear out prematurely.

"We weren't seeing enough activity in these areas, and we didn't want them to be last-minute crises," said Col. Charles Siefert, the deputy program manager. "We have had our fill of those."

Siefert said the letter reflects Air Force concern that Douglas was putting its full energy into achieving the first flight of the C-17 - which the company has scheduled for June - but was less attentive to other aspects of the program that would be more important in the long run.

Of course, IAF didn't have to bear with all this. USAF did. But now its IAFs turn. Welcome to the aircraft league guys - it will be hard for sure, but one day, the IAF will be pitching fighters to the world (export versions onlee

) That will happen.

srai · Post by **srai** » 16 May 2016 07:20

^^^

Mindsets will change in mass once the LCA is inducted in larger numbers and more of the IAF pilots/technicians get to work with it. Nothing better than seeing first hand that the Indian product is comparable (or superior) to what the imports offer.

rakall · Post by **rakall** » 16 May 2016 18:03

Breaking News !!!

IAF chief ACM Arup Raha will tomorrow take his maiden flight on LCA Tejas in Bangalore..

Hope this is true.. and everything goes smoothly..

Will be a great confidence booster + huge push to the program..
and a big Lungi dance moment for all of us at BR forum..

member_28990 · Post by **member_28990** » 16 May 2016 18:20

rakall wrote:Breaking News !!!

IAF chief ACM Arup Raha will tomorrow take his maiden flight on LCA Tejas in Bangalore..

Hope this is true.. and everything goes smoothly..

Will be a great confidence booster + huge push to the program..
and a big Lungi dance moment for all of us at BR forum..

this is big news indeed.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 16 May 2016 18:27

Two seater?

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 16 May 2016 19:06

fanne wrote:Two seater?

Should be. Can't see him convert on type and go solo in a single day. It's not impossible but he is unfamiliar with aircraft unless he has been training in simulators in private.

rakall · Post by **rakall** » 16 May 2016 19:26

fanne wrote:Two seater?

Yes.. Has to be a two seater flown by a test pilot..

No way he can fly solo without being type qualified..

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 16 May 2016 20:34

rakall wrote:Breaking News !!!

IAF chief ACM Arup Raha will tomorrow take his maiden flight on LCA Tejas in Bangalore..

Hope this is true.. and everything goes smoothly..

Will be a great confidence booster + huge push to the program..
and a big Lungi dance moment for all of us at BR forum..

Everything will go smoothly

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 16 May 2016 22:57

Ah! That explains the spike in the flight testing of PV-6 over the last few weeks. Wow!!! This is big. I am so happy today! Let this be the red letter day.

A Sharma · Post by **A Sharma** » 16 May 2016 23:05

Indian Air Force Chief Arup Raha To Take Maiden Flight In Tejas

Marshal Raha will also inaugurate the LCA paint hangar in Bengaluru and visit the production line of the aircraft. The Indian Air Force (IAF) has given an order of 120 Tejas, with 100 of them being an upgraded version.

He will fly a sortie in a Tejas trainer aircraft which is a two seater, defence sources said.

He will also visit the hangar where the Mirage 2000 is being upgraded.

ajay_hk · Post by **ajay_hk** » 17 May 2016 08:41

rakall wrote:Breaking News !!!

IAF chief ACM Arup Raha will tomorrow take his maiden flight on LCA Tejas in Bangalore..

Hope this is true.. and everything goes smoothly..

Will be a great confidence booster + huge push to the program..
and a big Lungi dance moment for all of us at BR forum..

Yep... IAF chief to fly in Tejas on Tuesday

Indian Air Force (IAF) chief Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha will be flying in India's indigenous fighter Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas on Tuesday, in a short sortie, making him the first chief to be flying the home-grown aircraft.

Source, while confirming that Raha will be taking a sortie in an LCA trainer, did not confirm if he would actually be flying the aircraft.

Raha, who is visiting Bengaluru will meet Team LCA and also inaugurate Tejas' painting hangar at defence PSU Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL).

ajay_hk · Post by **ajay_hk** » 17 May 2016 08:47

Final operational clearance for Tejas likely by year end
The usual drivel from ToI that FOC is delayed and all that... but there are a couple of snippets.

From the article:

integration of Air-to- Air Refuelling probe with LCA Tejas and its trials." Some more tests of Beyond-Visual- Range Air-to- Air Missile (BVRAAM) Derby missile are still remaining. Further, radar testing is on", said an official associated with the Project adding that in another month or two, the Air-to- Air Refuelling shall in all probability be tested in Rajasthan or from Jamnagar.

The official shared that while the ground integration of fifth generation Air- to-Air Close Combat Missile, Python 5 is over; its aerial trials along with those for Beyond-Visual- Range Air-to- Air Missile (BVRAAM) Derby missile are pending.

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 17 May 2016 11:14

The Chief has landed.

Viva Tejas.

member_28990 · Post by **member_28990** » 17 May 2016 12:25

i hope the they do a nice video and play it across all news networks, especially the regional ones.

member_27581 · Post by **member_27581** » 17 May 2016 12:27

^^^ not just the chief has landed, tejas has arrived...
just to spoil the moment here is what mr rajat pandit had to say
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 301474.cms
hate the extreme negativity in the reporting..anyways..

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 17 May 2016 12:55

ranjan.rao wrote:^^^ not just the chief has landed, tejas has arrived...
just to spoil the moment here is what mr rajat pandit had to say
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 301474.cms
hate the extreme negativity in the reporting..anyways..

I am yet to read a SINGLE article by this "gentlman" which doe not de rate our armed forces especially the indegenous product.

viveksonkhla · Post by **viveksonkhla** » 17 May 2016 13:08

"It's a good aircraft to fly and fit to be inducted into our fleet," the air chief said on landing at the Aircraft Systems Testing Establishment.

http://www.thestatesman.com/news/latest ... 42939.html

rakall · Post by **rakall** » 17 May 2016 14:07

viveksonkhla wrote:"It's a good aircraft to fly and fit to be inducted into our fleet," the air chief said on landing at the Aircraft Systems Testing Establishment.

http://www.thestatesman.com/news/latest ... 42939.html

Air Chief Raha carried out simulated air to air and ground attacks, assessed radar modes and Helmet Mounted Display Sight on the Tejas.

(From TL of Manu Pubby)

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 17 May 2016 14:45

How long have we waited for this?

Salutations to the LCA team. I'm thinking tears will have been shed.

Source: https://twitter.com/jcmenon/status/732508246687158272

Source:https://twitter.com/spokespersonmod/sta ... 5877332992

rakall · Post by **rakall** » 17 May 2016 14:54

PratikDas wrote:How long have we waited for this?

Salutations to the LCA team. I'm thinking tears will have been shed.

Source: https://twitter.com/jcmenon/status/732508246687158272

15years 4months 13days !!!

nits · Post by **nits** » 17 May 2016 15:45

It should be made a norm for every new product where the respective chief should use \ fly \ drive it and boost the morale... then it will be a Real Made ( confidence) in India

KBDagha · Post by **KBDagha** » 17 May 2016 15:50

I hope this helps reduce the resistance towards #LCA # Tejas...

Hope to see this deadly plane in hundreds if not in thousands !!!

KBDagha · Post by **KBDagha** » 17 May 2016 15:53

T Suvarna Raju, CMD, HAL speaks to Nitin A Gokhale of BharatShakti.in

http://bharatshakti.in/hal-alone-has-de ... u-cmd-hal/

member_28990 · Post by **member_28990** » 17 May 2016 17:27

KBDagha wrote:T Suvarna Raju, CMD, HAL speaks to Nitin A Gokhale of BharatShakti.in

http://bharatshakti.in/hal-alone-has-de ... u-cmd-hal/

this is very informative. some really interesting tidbits

LCA Tejas has the distinction of being the world’s smallest light weight, multirole, single engine, and fighter aircraft. LCA Tejas performance characteristics are at par with and even exceed the contemporary aircraft of its class like Gripen (JAS-39) of Sweden, FA-50 fighter of South Korea, Thunder (JF-17) of China etc.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 17 May 2016 18:03

now, LCA is

SOLD!

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 17 May 2016 18:12

I always get a chuckle at the smallest. So the opponent will think it is cute and would like to get killed by it? Smallest in terms of Radar cross section does zilch, the frontal surface area might be still comparable with all the weapons hanging and to reduce the detection by half you have to reduce exposed area 16 times (and not some %, what LCA achieves). For WVR, small size has advantage, but other factors are more important. Whereas small size precludes better range, more ammunition etc etc.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 17 May 2016 18:29

fanne wrote:I always get a chuckle at the smallest. So the opponent will think it is cute and would like to get killed by it? ...For WVR, small size has advantage, but other factors are more important. Whereas small size precludes better range, more ammunition etc etc.

I think of it as the Folland Gnat syndrome. We have the tendency (perhaps because of the penury we endured in the 1960s/70/80s) to value the cheapest, lightest, smallest and imbue the object with preternatural capabilities and to consider the achievement an end in itself.

If instead of the current size of the Tejas, we'd made it the size of the M2K and (with 20/20 foresight) done parallel development to allow for the M4K, we'd have no MiG 21s, 27s, 29s, Jags and others that we have in the bestiary.

FWIW, I just want us for once to think big and make it too important to fail.

JMT

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 17 May 2016 18:34

IIRC, The small size was mandated so that it can fit in the hangars built for the Mig-21

srai · Post by **srai** » 17 May 2016 18:35

PratikDas wrote:...

...

Backseat has a really good view of the whole front and rear. In A2A, a WSO could use his Dash HMS to make an off-bore Python-5 shot while the pilot focuses on flying.

saumitra_j · Post by **saumitra_j** » 17 May 2016 18:35

This has all the details. This is an amazing testimony to IAF's support for the Tejas program - the AF chief wouldn't have flown in it! The clip also mentions that the ACM simulated A2A and A2G attacks which means he must have checked the avionic capability himself and just imagine, with his own personal experience, he will now help add to the support of the program top down while the pilots flying in the first squadron will create the bottoms up support! The LCA era has well and truly begin and as folks have said, it is a tears in the eyes movement - I still remember having read about it for the first time in Frontline way back in 1989/90 or thereabouts and today, the IAF Chief flies it! Better late than never!

One thing we must not forget about the LCA - it has a damned good engine and one of the reasons for its super safety record so far is the outstanding engine! Kudos to GE and Unkil's overall capabilities in gas turbines!

ldev · Post by **ldev** » 17 May 2016 18:42

Kakkaji wrote:IIRC, The small size was mandated so that it can fit in the hangars built for the Mig-21

So a Rs 180 crore aircraft is designed around a Rs 50 lakh hanger. Talk about the cart before the horse syndrome.

srai · Post by **srai** » 17 May 2016 18:45

Cosmo_R wrote:
fanne wrote:I always get a chuckle at the smallest. So the opponent will think it is cute and would like to get killed by it? ...For WVR, small size has advantage, but other factors are more important. Whereas small size precludes better range, more ammunition etc etc.
I think of it as the Folland Gnat syndrome. We have the tendency (perhaps because of the penury we endured in the 1960s/70/80s) to value the cheapest, lightest, smallest and imbue the object with preternatural capabilities and to consider the achievement an end in itself.

If instead of the current size of the Tejas, we'd made it the size of the M2K and (with 20/20 foresight) done parallel development to allow for the M4K, we'd have no MiG 21s, 27s, 29s, Jags and others that we have in the bestiary.

FWIW, I just want us for once to think big and make it too important to fail.

JMT

Kakkaji wrote:IIRC, The small size was mandated so that it can fit in the hangars built for the Mig-21

I remember reading an article a long while ago that stated something like the small/light was for low operating costs, especially low fuel consumption requirement as India was/is heavily depended on imported oil. Other programs of that era, like the ALH, had that "light" attribute to it as a key defining feature. Light/small has cheaper acquisition costs as well. Remember this was in the 1980/90s when India was still a Banana Republic and had severe FOREX issues.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 17 May 2016 19:25

but why tom tom it today?