LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Kartik » 19 May 2016 23:21

Thanks Indranil for that link. Was great to see the trainer variant in action. Beautiful bird.

Elta cements radar status on Tejas fighter

Elta Systems will supply the radar for all future versions of India's Tejas light combat aircraft (LCA), after the Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) subsidiary was selected by Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL).

The company's ELM-2032 fire-control radar is installed on prototypes of the Indian-developed fighter, and deliveries will continue as series production starts. According to Elta, it also has been chosen as sole supplier for additional future versions of the Tejas; Israeli sources suggest this could involve using its active electronically scanned array ELM-2052 sensor. They suggest that strong ties between HAL and IAI could see additional Israeli equipment installed on the fighter.


India's air force has announced plans to order 80 more LCA in an improved Mk1A configuration, following an earlier order for 40 Tejas jets.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby rakall » 20 May 2016 00:18

rohitvats wrote:
rakall wrote: Thanks for the update.. but even in that intent of the IN was clear.. that IN will facilitate the required stuff while allowing him to be dedicated to the LCA-Navy program.. the fact that IN did not use the 1yr sea time as an opportunity to terminate his detachment to ASTE, and instead let him go back to ASTE immediately after the 1yr sea time speaks volumes about IN's commitment to Tejas.. and inturn shows up the rather step motherly treatment that IAF had resorted to during the same period..


What with sweeping assumptions?

How much flying opportunities exist for a Naval Aviator in India? If anything, secondment to a program like LCA testing opens up growth opportunities for them. An IAF test pilot is a fighter pilot at the end of the day. Beyond a certain level, his promotion in the IAF will be basis his tenures in a front-line squadron and various staff postings. Unless, we have a dedicated cadre for Test Pilots/dedicated R&D personnel with its own hierarchy up to AVM/AM level.

Not to forget that LCA flight test team at NFTC has been mostly manned by IAF pilots.


You missed my previous post.. the whole point was that Tejas NFTC team (I wrote ASTE by mistake) is fully manned by IAF pilots, but none have stayed longer than 2-3yrs.. Chief Test Pilot of NFTC team was overlooked for promotion because of his Blr posting.. While IN deputed Cdr.Maolonkar to the IN program for almost a decade now with the 1yr break for seatime...

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby suryag » 20 May 2016 00:25

amazing video, the chief seems to be a down to earth leader, he also gifted rangachari garu something at the end(so nice of him, not sure if this is a convention in the services). Sri balaji says soemthing like "we were watching you on telemtry and you pulled 4.5g" chief says " could have pulled more" and then something called IRP(whatever it means), the chief apparently had the controls while taking off too. am wondering how much confidence the group and rangachari garu had in the aircraft controls(must have been super intuitive and easy) that they could give it to their chiefs(meri tho phatt jayegi), chief at the end asks when are the next aircrafts coming so that he can setup squadron service Raju garu says soon and something? Raju garu also seems quite down to earth(he was the one who greeted balaji garu from behind). all in all good video

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Khalsa » 20 May 2016 01:51

indranilroy wrote:


Wow just wow.
Such a gracious , powerful and a humble man.

IAF is blessed to have a thinking tiger like him.
Must say all our current chiefs are acting more strategic , pragmatic and more builder/ scientist like.
Loving it Loving It Loving it.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby srai » 20 May 2016 02:15

suryag wrote:amazing video, the chief seems to be a down to earth leader, he also gifted rangachari garu something at the end(so nice of him, not sure if this is a convention in the services). Sri balaji says soemthing like "we were watching you on telemtry and you pulled 4.5g" chief says " could have pulled more" and then something called IRP(whatever it means), the chief apparently had the controls while taking off too. am wondering how much confidence the group and rangachari garu had in the aircraft controls(must have been super intuitive and easy) that they could give it to their chiefs(meri tho phatt jayegi), chief at the end asks when are the next aircrafts coming so that he can setup squadron service Raju garu says soon and something? Raju garu also seems quite down to earth(he was the one who greeted balaji garu from behind). all in all good video


I would assume the IAF chief would have undergone basic LCA simulator training.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby fanne » 20 May 2016 05:22

It looks like stars are aligning for Tejas. I guess ball is strictly in HAL court

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Gagan » 20 May 2016 07:50

Wow!
Congratulations everybody! HAL will deliver as promised.
Can't wait for 1A with the 2052.
The IAF walas will be lining up to fly that bird !!!

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Indranil » 20 May 2016 10:57

suryag wrote:amazing video, the chief seems to be a down to earth leader, he also gifted rangachari garu something at the end(so nice of him, not sure if this is a convention in the services). Sri balaji says soemthing like "we were watching you on telemtry and you pulled 4.5g" chief says " could have pulled more" and then something called IRP(whatever it means), the chief apparently had the controls while taking off too. am wondering how much confidence the group and rangachari garu had in the aircraft controls(must have been super intuitive and easy) that they could give it to their chiefs(meri tho phatt jayegi), chief at the end asks when are the next aircrafts coming so that he can setup squadron service Raju garu says soon and something? Raju garu also seems quite down to earth(he was the one who greeted balaji garu from behind). all in all good video

Let me correct/augment the transcript in few places.

Balaji: We were watching you on telemetry.
ACM: Achcha nervous?
Balaji: We think you were very steady (Raju serves in the platitudes).
ACM: I couldn't pull for than 4Gs.
Balaji: It went to about 4.5Gs, so in your turn.
ACM: Yeah, without any reheat. It would have pulled more.
Balaji: Actually yes. Because it was in IRP ... that's what I was seeing.

Media statement, felicitation and questions about next aircrafts followed.

By the way, gifting the pilots is a convention. senior officials always gift the pilots. You might want to read about the anecdote about Mr. Sharif trying to gift IAF pilots who flew him. His nazrana was obviously turned down.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby member_28990 » 20 May 2016 11:02

indranilroy wrote:
suryag wrote:amazing video, the chief seems to be a down to earth leader, he also gifted rangachari garu something at the end(so nice of him, not sure if this is a convention in the services). Sri balaji says soemthing like "we were watching you on telemtry and you pulled 4.5g" chief says " could have pulled more" and then something called IRP(whatever it means), the chief apparently had the controls while taking off too. am wondering how much confidence the group and rangachari garu had in the aircraft controls(must have been super intuitive and easy) that they could give it to their chiefs(meri tho phatt jayegi), chief at the end asks when are the next aircrafts coming so that he can setup squadron service Raju garu says soon and something? Raju garu also seems quite down to earth(he was the one who greeted balaji garu from behind). all in all good video

Let me correct/augment the transcript in few places.

Balaji: We were watching you on telemetry.
ACM: Achcha nervous?
Balaji: We think you were very steady (Raju serves in the platitudes).
ACM: I couldn't pull for than 4Gs.
Balaji: It went to about 4.5Gs, so in your turn.
ACM: Yeah, without any reheat. It would have pulled more.
Balaji: Actually yes. Because it was in IRP ... that's what I was seeing.

Media statement, felicitation and questions about next aircrafts followed.

By the way, gifting the pilots is a convention. senior officials always gift the pilots. You might want to read about the anecdote about Mr. Sharif trying to gift IAF pilots who flew him. His nazrana was obviously turned down.



not only badmaash, the chinese ended up giving cash to the pilots

http://blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime/2012 ... an-pilots/

It’s common courtesy for visiting dignitaries to present a small token of appreciation or memento to hosts when they visit their country. It’s basic courtesy to receive such gifts, too.

But two Indian Air Force pilots who flew China’s Defense Minister General Liang Guanglie from Mumbai to New Delhi on Monday were perhaps unprepared for the gift they received: 50,000 rupees ($900) each, in sealed envelopes.

The Chinese side was perhaps equally unaware of the implications of their gesture. After all, in Chinese culture, the concept of “Hong Bao” — literally, a red envelope — is commonplace among friends and families and also extends to senior colleagues giving cash to their juniors.

The pilots gracefully accepted the ‘gift’ envelopes thinking it to be a pen set or some small gift. But when cash tumbled out, they were left baffled.

The two pilots duly reported the matter to their superiors and it was quickly escalated.
Later, it was decided that the money be deposited in the “Toshakhana” or a government depository as returning it to the Chinese could hurt relations, said Indian Air Force spokesman Wing Commander Gerard Galway, confirming the incident.

The press officer at the Chinese embassy in the Indian capital declined to comment, saying that the Indian government was handling the issue.

That perhaps would close the matter, with the Indian treasury richer by 100,000 rupees and the pilots left to regale their families and community for a long time with their little story.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Bhaskar_T » 20 May 2016 19:47

Lo Bhai, 1) Tejas squadron flying is delayed from July to October :cry: 2) 1 Rafale = 2 Tejas (Price wise) - Same article shows, 1 Rafale = at least 3 Tejas.

Parrikar ji won't make such calculation mistakes, poor reporting probably.


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 364193.cms

NEW DELHI: The first squadron of Tejas fighter jets will be flying before Diwali, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar said, adding that the indigenous light combat aircraft (LCA) is as good as Rafale, even though its load carrying capacity and range is lesser.

He also said that by the year-end, the government will decide on which multi-role fighter jets will be manufactured in the country.

In an interview to All India Radio, the minister stressed that the Indian Air Force can get two Tejas fighters at the price of one Rafale jet.

"In the air force, a new fighter has not been inducted since 1994. Tejas was stuck for 32 years. Now, two planes have been supplied and a few more will be supplied in a couple of months," Parrikar said.
"The first squadron of Tejas will be ready by September-October and it will be flying before Diwali," the minister said.

"Our Tejas has the same qualities as Rafale. Although Tejas is in lightweight category, with its range also half compared with Rafale, but in terms of avionics, electronics and firepower it is no less than Rafale," he said.

"One Rafale fighter is worth approximately Rs 700 crore to Rs 750 crore while an Su-30 costs about Rs 475 crore. Compared to these planes, India's Tejas is in the range of Rs 200 crore to Rs 250 crore only. We can get two Tejas at the price of one Rafale," the minister said.

Parrikar said concluding the deal to buy Rafale fighters from Dassault Aviation of France will take a "few more weeks", and added that the negotiations on price was important.

"You will have to bring down the cost. If you throw away the price they demand, our coffers will soon be empty," he said.

Asked about the plans to manufacture the multi-role fighter jets in the country, Parrikar said: "By the end of this year, a decision will be taken on which fighter aircraft will be made in India. We have not decided yet whether we will make the F-18, Eurofighter, Rafale or Griffin."

On the dip in the numbers of IAF squadrons, the defence minister said the gap will be bridged soon. "The sanctioned strength of fighter squadrons is 42, but 100 percent is never reached. We have 34 squadrons at present. In the next three to four years, four to five squadrons of Tejas will be added; a few more squadrons of Sukhoi will also come. By then two squadrons of Rafale jets will also come," Parrikar said.

The minister, asked about the new Defence Procurement Procedure (DPP), said its effects will be visible from next year. In the next seven to eight years, the ratio of imports in defence equipments may come down to 30 to 35 per cent, making India "almost self-reliant", Parrikar said. The minister said the ratio of import in military hardware has come down from 70 per cent to 63 per cent at present.

"If every year the decrease is five to ten per cent, in the next five years, it can come under 40 per cent. When it comes under 30 per cent, we will be more or less self-dependent. Some items are such that manufacturing them in the country is not profitable. It is better to buy (from abroad) because the cost and numbers do not justify domestic production," he said.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Austin » 20 May 2016 19:56

So Su-30 cost 475 crore and Rafale 750 Crore , Not sure how much is that in current USD exchange but roughly Su-30 cost 250 Crore less than Rafale approximately cost of Tejas , So 1 Rafale is roughly the cost of 1 MKI + 1 Tejas, These are fly away cost.

Add additional cost of Infra , Weapons etc something its already sunk cost for MKI , Why not just buy more MKI and Tejas and make more of it in India rather that buying 36 Rafale then again looking for F-18 or Griffin or somethin or Rafale to be Made in India ......MOD neeeds to Think !

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Cain Marko » 20 May 2016 19:58

So, in what world is a new f18 or typhoon line going to be cheaper than raffle? Or is this new production-line line just a gimmick or ahem, empty line for raffle folks to toe the line?

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Austin » 20 May 2016 20:03

Cain Marko wrote:So, in what world is a new f18 or typhoon line going to be cheaper than raffle? Or is this new production-line line just a gimmick or ahem, empty line for raffle folks to toe the line?


Yeah looks like , Earlier he mentioned Plan B was to make more Su-30 now he says its xyx ....Does not make sense , just stick to more Tejas and MKI , if Tejas is as good as Rafale minus range and payload , then MKI can be made better than Rafale with more range and payload. Why spend 750 crore to duplicate the effort when we can get Rafale like capabilities with Tejas and MKI plus a lot of sunk cost in these program

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Cain Marko » 20 May 2016 20:08

He's probably taking the French on a long ride, hoping that they either offer friendship prices or simply pull out. Then the additional mki and tejas orders will fructify

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby ShauryaT » 20 May 2016 20:11

I am kind of disappointed at this stage with Parikkar. He was the one, who came in and said these large purchases cannot be done through a bidding process, as if buying off the shelf products. These decisions have to be made with strategic rationale. If Tejas is definitely one of the crafts the country will be getting then why look for another "mid" sized foreign aircraft to produced with screw drivers in the country? Better off working with the Russians on the PAKFA and dump this mid sized category, who's rationale the IAF has never been able to make. Also the numbers seem all off in that article. Either the reporter is misquoting or Parikkar is shooting from the hip after a few pegs down or the previous reports were wrong? 750 crore is about $110 million.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby nirav » 20 May 2016 20:23

Its the IAF which has the requirement for mid category.
I see nothing wrong with the DMs approach.

He's keeping the french in hand with the prospect of an Indian rafale line while talking to boing F18 and also eurofighter !

Sticking to just LCA n Su30s might necessitate a doctrinal shift which IAF and raksha mantralay might not be willing to..

Had it not been for Sh. Parrikar, MK1 would have gotten capped at 40 with the MK2 @ extended timelines at risk of getting canned all together.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Karan M » 20 May 2016 20:57

Please please lets not turn this into another MMRCA thread. :(( :((

What a wonderful event, IAF CAS flying the Tejas, coming out all smiles, and giving positive vibes.

Lets stick to that.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Karan M » 20 May 2016 21:38

Kartik wrote:Thanks Indranil for that link. Was great to see the trainer variant in action. Beautiful bird.

Elta cements radar status on Tejas fighter

Elta Systems will supply the radar for all future versions of India's Tejas light combat aircraft (LCA), after the Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) subsidiary was selected by Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL).

The company's ELM-2032 fire-control radar is installed on prototypes of the Indian-developed fighter, and deliveries will continue as series production starts. According to Elta, it also has been chosen as sole supplier for additional future versions of the Tejas; Israeli sources suggest this could involve using its active electronically scanned array ELM-2052 sensor. They suggest that strong ties between HAL and IAI could see additional Israeli equipment installed on the fighter.


India's air force has announced plans to order 80 more LCA in an improved Mk1A configuration, following an earlier order for 40 Tejas jets.


Meanwhile LRDE's Uttam specs displayed at Defexpo were 150km (up from the original 100km). If for the same class of target, this is not a small thing, if achieved (compares very favorably with the 130km original ask for MMRCA & what MiG demo'ed).

Original specs being aimed for.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-prwO6XAAAX1a_.jpg

LPI was also mentioned for new ones.

If LRDE can do this, they can then scale up for a 200+km class radar on the Su-30 class platform too.

Note that the current AEW&C is a breakthrough as it is an airborne platform designed to track and monitor a range of maneuvering targets even with HPT. This will translate to FCR improvements.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Vivek K » 20 May 2016 22:04

Austin, based on the article Rafale -750 crores, MKI - 475 crores and LCA 200-250 crores. Therefore from math 1 Rafale = 1.5 MKI = 3 LCA.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby nirav » 21 May 2016 02:55

Just thinking out aloud.
Ge has 2 variants of the F414 engine, the EPE & EDE..
How much time and effort would they need to create an EPE variant of the F404 IN currently employed by the LCA MK1 ?
Think it would be useful if they can come up with it by the time MK1A is ready..

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby nirav » 21 May 2016 02:55

Double post

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Indranil » 21 May 2016 03:10

All, please take this 1 Rafale discussion somewhere else. Otherwise, be prepared to face action.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Zynda » 21 May 2016 18:49

Karan, are you aware what is the current status on Uttam AESA FCR, given that Israelis are willing to supply 2052 sets to LCA alone? (earlier I believe, they had said that they would supply 2052 only if its selected for more than one platform...read that a potential order of 100 plus for Mk.1A is appealing enough for them change their stands).

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Austin » 22 May 2016 08:32

HAL plans to double LCA production soon, says CMD

http://bharatshakti.in/hal-plans-to-dou ... -says-cmd/

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby juvva » 22 May 2016 09:55


shiv
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby shiv » 22 May 2016 10:00

juvva wrote:"How We Almost Lost Tejas"

http://epaper.deccanchronicle.com/artic ... id=5460755

Nice. A younger generation of article writers has come of age. Balls to the old. Long live the new.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Kashi » 22 May 2016 10:10

^^ There is something about Suresh Kalmadi and accounts that never seem to add up

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Indranil » 22 May 2016 10:41

The irony of Suresh Kalmadi threatening scientist of misappropriation of funds. FACEPALM! :roll:

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby shiv » 22 May 2016 11:10

Kashi wrote:^^ There is something about Suresh Kalmadi and accounts that never seem to add up

His father was a jolly old chain smoking doc in Poona who loved his tipple. But Suresh Kalmadi listed him as "freedom fighter" on his web page. Kalmadi was actually an An-12 pilot

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Vivek K » 22 May 2016 23:36

Kudos to Ratan Tata for his vision!! And to Sharad Pawar for realising that Kalmadi's opinion needed to be ignored.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Karan M » 23 May 2016 04:09

Image

And people were thinking it was all CT when repeated evidence was put out to show how the program was targeted from day 1.

My respect for Ratan Tata just went up manifold. Blue skies sir. You have been a true son of Mother India.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby shiv » 23 May 2016 06:45

indranilroy wrote:

After 6:20 ACM Raha has the joyful look of a boy who has just got back his toy.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby vina » 23 May 2016 09:17

Well, saw on Times Now that the Pakis are prostrate in front of the Chinese for AESA radars (which I doubt the Chinese themselves have for their planes). This Tejas MK-1A is going to be a game changer with some 6 to 7 squadrons of AESA equipped modern multirole fighters getting rolled out of assembly lines in India. The Pakis know that with that, their entire Air Force (including the F16s will be one generation behind), with the JF-17 Bandar seeming like being back to 1980 .

Good. Now with the subsidised US F-16 tap being turned off, and the US striking the Taliban in Balochistan (and then "informing" the Pakis, like the Osama Bin Laden incident) to take out the Taliban Chief, it is going to be qualitatively different. The Pakis will now have to pony up very very hard cash for decent western equipment to do a tech match or run to the Chinese who will still squeeze their testimonials in multiple ways and end up buying some dodgy junk.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby member_20453 » 23 May 2016 16:24

Thank heavens for the beautiful flight, hope Raha sahab sees the true value of this bird. Ideally, 2 sqds of LCA MK-1 trainers for IAF and 1 SQD for IN can be ordered right away as LIFT last stage trainers for the IAF and IN (60 LIFT aircraft in total). This will allow our pilots to attain higher levels of proficiency. Also would give yet another reason to increase production capaity to atleast 42. 2sqds of 18 per year for IAF/IN, another 6 slots for exports.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Gagan » 23 May 2016 16:47

ACM Raha is said to have been flying after 17 yrs. He pulled off a surprise by taking over as the plane was taxiing to the runway. The rest of the IAF team in the control tower must have been at the edge of their seats !!!!!!!! :D

But this is such wonderful news.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby srin » 23 May 2016 17:19

If you watch the video at around 3m (link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDg-7GVc41s#t=3m), the takeoff seemed to be a bit jittery. If the ACM had taken over at take-off that was quite a risky thing to do.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby fanne » 23 May 2016 18:14

I felt the same takeoff was not smooth

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby shiv » 23 May 2016 18:27

srin wrote:If you watch the video at around 3m (link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDg-7GVc41s#t=3m), the takeoff seemed to be a bit jittery. If the ACM had taken over at take-off that was quite a risky thing to do.


Not jittery - he pulled the nose up a bit more and then corrected. Of course with dual controls the Gp capt with him would have had everything under control. Once a pilot - always a pilot. I recall a time long ago when my cousin Wingco Suresh was still alive I was playing a Flight simulator game and fighting IIRC - it was an F/A 18. I could not land it of course and one day Suresh walked into the room and he landed the plane with no sweat. He had been off fighter flying (and in fact all flying) for over a decade then.

But need to recall that Raha is on the wrong side of 60. A lot of people will not be able to climb that ladder at 60. He was beaming when he got out..

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Gagan » 23 May 2016 18:50

He wanted to land it too! But it looks like there was not enough telemetery reading in the rear cockpit.
He mentions that the Gp Capt was reading off telemetery to him from front - dunno if this was during takeoff, but certainly during the inflight maneuvers when he targeted the dam (Ground target)

Yes shiv-ji! Once a pilot, always a pilot !!! :D

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Kartik » 24 May 2016 03:13

Vivek K wrote:Kudos to Ratan Tata for his vision!! And to Sharad Pawar for realising that Kalmadi's opinion needed to be ignored.


+1


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