LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Suresh S · Post by **Suresh S** » 24 May 2016 03:25

My respect for Ratan Tata just went up manifold. Blue skies sir. You have been a true son of Mother India.

If true which seems likely my respect which was always high for Mr Ratan Tata went up a few notches.

NachiketM · Post by **NachiketM** » 24 May 2016 08:48

Hey Guys,
Any recent flying activity sighted for any of the SPs or LCA-N ???
This post seems to have dried up ...

member_27581 · Post by **member_27581** » 24 May 2016 12:30

Not sure how true or false it is but

PAF F-16 pilots are advised to stay away from the LCA in the horizontal plane at high Mach numbers
http://www.defencenews.in/article.aspx?id=5350

Are Indian journalists designing PAF pilot briefings?

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 24 May 2016 12:41

Not sure, but that article seems suspiciously similar to the analysis done by vivek ahuja...

member_27581 · Post by **member_27581** » 24 May 2016 12:50

^^^had the exact same thoughts...seems like "mera beta engineer bangega" was too lazy to copy the details and awesome charts by vivek sir...

srai · Post by **srai** » 24 May 2016 13:43

ranjan.rao wrote:Not sure how true or false it is but

PAF F-16 pilots are advised to stay away from the LCA in the horizontal plane at high Mach numbers
http://www.defencenews.in/article.aspx?id=5350

Are Indian journalists designing PAF pilot briefings?

Plagiarism at its best. Word for word copy ... except for taking the credit part.

Here is Vivek Ahuja's original:
LCA Tejas versus F-16 in combat (Part-I)

KBDagha · Post by **KBDagha** » 24 May 2016 14:43

Lca-naval-platforms-begin-night-flying-from-sbtf-in-goa

http://www.oneindia.com/india/lca-naval ... 07949.html

It also has video of NP-2 demonstrating fuel jettison test successfully in Goa.

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 24 May 2016 14:57

Video of NLCA NP-2 demonstrating fuel jettison test successfully in Goa from Anantha Krishnan M Twitter

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 24 May 2016 16:19

Kakarat wrote:Video of NLCA NP-2 demonstrating fuel jettison test successfully in Goa from Anantha Krishnan M Twitter

What chase plane is being used for the video?

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 24 May 2016 16:30

ranjan.rao wrote: PAF F-16 pilots are advised to stay away from the LCA in the horizontal plane at high Mach numbers

This line itself made me wonder that its awfully similar to what Vivek had concluded. After reading first para it was confirmed that its a word to word copy. Who the F*** is this Adarsh guy?? He looks too dumb to think he wouldn't have been exposed in this era of Google. LOL..!! What kind of engineering you can expect from such Dumbass people??

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 24 May 2016 16:41

LCA vs F-16 timepass video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPeFh8ajxD0

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 24 May 2016 16:41

shiv wrote:
Kakarat wrote:Video of NLCA NP-2 demonstrating fuel jettison test successfully in Goa from Anantha Krishnan M Twitter
What chase plane is being used for the video?

Sea Harrier as per this report by Tarmak007 LCA naval platforms begin night flying from SBTF in Goa

Also night flying and radar data link was also tested during this campaign.

...
"The night trials are critical for the project. This is for the first time that both NP-1 and NP-2 are undertaking night operations from SBTF. Both have done extensive night trials from normal runways," says an official. So far both platforms have carried out four sorties with the time duration ranging from 25 to 30 minutes.

...
During the April campaign at SBTF, NP-2 demonstrated the fuel jettison test successfully. This is the capability to dump/jettison fuel in case of a requirement arising due to an emergency after launch of an aircraft from an aircraft carrier. The excess fuel is dumped into the ocean in a systematic manner, to reduce the weight of the aircraft. "Typically the landing mass is much lower than the take-off mass and is a feature required on all naval aircraft operating from a ship. Ahead of this, we have undertaken extensive design and simulation tests. A Sea Harrier (now decommissioned) was the chase aircraft capturing the event," says the official.

...
In the last campaign, preliminary evaluation of air-to-sea mode of the radar was carried out to gather data. The data link (only on naval version) evaluation was carried out with the Sea Harrier in flight. Sea Harrier also had the same data link of NLCA.

...

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 24 May 2016 16:49

shiv wrote:
Kakarat wrote:Video of NLCA NP-2 demonstrating fuel jettison test successfully in Goa from Anantha Krishnan M Twitter
What chase plane is being used for the video?

Shiv - my guess is that this is a Mig-29K from IN. And forward nose cone based IRST is being used to track the plane. The rod thing in the video looks like a pitot tube.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 24 May 2016 18:46

rohitvats wrote: Shiv - my guess is that this is a Mig-29K from IN. And forward nose cone based IRST is being used to track the plane. The rod thing in the video looks like a pitot tube.

Its Sea Harrier, check my post above

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 24 May 2016 21:17

Brilliant find. Confirms the SHAR datalink combo on NLCA as I had surmised - so much for SHAR/NLCA etc only being good for WVR etc.

The IAF version will most likely have the ODL, being developed for IAF by IAI as well.

putnanja wrote:Sea Harrier as per this report by Tarmak007 LCA naval platforms begin night flying from SBTF in Goa

Also night flying and radar data link was also tested during this campaign.

...
"The night trials are critical for the project. This is for the first time that both NP-1 and NP-2 are undertaking night operations from SBTF. Both have done extensive night trials from normal runways," says an official. So far both platforms have carried out four sorties with the time duration ranging from 25 to 30 minutes.

...
During the April campaign at SBTF, NP-2 demonstrated the fuel jettison test successfully. This is the capability to dump/jettison fuel in case of a requirement arising due to an emergency after launch of an aircraft from an aircraft carrier. The excess fuel is dumped into the ocean in a systematic manner, to reduce the weight of the aircraft. "Typically the landing mass is much lower than the take-off mass and is a feature required on all naval aircraft operating from a ship. Ahead of this, we have undertaken extensive design and simulation tests. A Sea Harrier (now decommissioned) was the chase aircraft capturing the event," says the official.

...
In the last campaign, preliminary evaluation of air-to-sea mode of the radar was carried out to gather data. The data link (only on naval version) evaluation was carried out with the Sea Harrier in flight. Sea Harrier also had the same data link of NLCA.

...

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 24 May 2016 23:52

Manohar Parrikar interview

........ Three, in aviation Tejas has been inducted, a second Tejas delivered, the third will be delivered in June, and in July or August the first squadron will be formed. After 32 years, Indian-made light combat fighters have been inducted and a formation worked out. The Air Force chief (Arup Raha) himself flew the plane. From a situation where no plane was coming up to a situation that the first squadron will be formed now is a great achievement.

But, then, ADA and HAL [Aeronautical Development Agency and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited ] weren’t delivering the final version of Tejas.

That is what leadership is all about. I ensured that ADA delivers what the Air Force wanted. I had 18 meetings with them, we sorted it out. Finally, the Air Force says it will buy 120 Tejas aircraft… We are offering to friendly countries and we may start exporting also. Tejas aircraft were made and dumped, I made it operational.Basically, what I want to say is that there was a mess created over a period of 10 years due to no decisions..

Lots of nuggets all over the article.
And also , from Sri.Parrikar himself what someone ( Karan?) mentioned long time back here.

Your predecessor A K Antony had a reputation, as you do, that he was honest. Why didn’t this work to the advantage of the ministry in 10 years? His honesty is part of your ministry’s legacy, is it not?

I will put it like this. Honesty without output is of no use… It’s not that if you are honest then you can’t deliver. A simple way of living honestly is not to take any decision. When you take a decision you have to pass through a path with thorns and nails. You have to avoid all those and take a clear, conscious decision in the interest of the nation.

And MSM being shown its place.

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 25 May 2016 00:00

Loved this...hope its true...

Maybe it’s difficult to ban it because, some argue, India has Scorpene submarines that need torpedoes, which come from WASS, a subsidiary of Finmeccanica.
We have refused it [WASS].
How then will you make Scorpenes functional?
I will make it functional, don’t worry about it.
Indian make?
There are other companies who can supply it… Can’t tell you for security reasons where we will get it from.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 25 May 2016 02:04

There will be another round of trials for Dhansuh

malushahi · Post by **malushahi** » 25 May 2016 02:41

Your predecessor A K Antony had a reputation, as you do, that he was honest. Why didn’t this work to the advantage of the ministry in 10 years? His honesty is part of your ministry’s legacy, is it not?

I will put it like this. Honesty without output is of no use… It’s not that if you are honest then you can’t deliver. A simple way of living honestly is not to take any decision. When you take a decision you have to pass through a path with thorns and nails. You have to avoid all those and take a clear, conscious decision in the interest of the nation.

<OT - pliss to indulge>
the canard about saintony has been repeated so many times that it has become the gospel truth. from l'affaire CNS to 28 crores worth of paintings, the guy's integrity has been impeccable!
<OT off>

viveksonkhla · Post by **viveksonkhla** » 26 May 2016 13:19

400 more fighter jets in IAF’s vision 2030

The source said the IAF would get 120 Tejas light combat aircraft, another 120 twin-engine mediumweight aircraft to be built in India in collaboration with a foreign manufacturer, and an equal number of single-engine fighter planes. India is currently negotiating a deal with France for buying 36 Rafale fighters and 72 Sukhoi-30 fighters are on order.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/nation/40 ... zc3HL.html

sankum · Post by **sankum** » 26 May 2016 15:38

The other 120 single engine fighter will be Lca mk2?

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 26 May 2016 16:11

viveksonkhla wrote:400 more fighter jets in IAF’s vision 2030

The source said the IAF would get 120 Tejas light combat aircraft, another 120 twin-engine mediumweight aircraft to be built in India in collaboration with a foreign manufacturer, and an equal number of single-engine fighter planes. India is currently negotiating a deal with France for buying 36 Rafale fighters and 72 Sukhoi-30 fighters are on order.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/nation/40 ... zc3HL.html

120 Twin Engine Fighter and 120 Single Engine fighter ?

Why not just build more single engine 120 Tejas Mk2 ?

Bharadwaj · Post by **Bharadwaj** » 26 May 2016 17:07

And no mention of FGFA and AMCA both of which should be available to be inducted in some numbers before 2030?

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 26 May 2016 21:47

Strange indeed. Maybe the scribe didn't transcribe correctly. If true, what a waste! Hope they aren't looking at gripen or solah, ugh.

My guess is that iaf will wind up getting another 120 tejas...once economic reality dawns

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 26 May 2016 22:06

There is now way gripen or F-16 will find its way into IAF. It will be LCA-mk2.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 27 May 2016 00:24

From Aviationweek's online edition..

Would be a really really big deal if we manage to secure an export order for the Tejas Mk1/Mk1A..The airshow debut at Bahrain, the MoD push for exports, followed by the IAF clearly spelling out its interest in securing a large enough number of Mk1 and Mk1A fighters is paying dividends with foreign nations now actually considering the Tejas for the light fighter role.

India’s troubled little fighter jet Tejas is cruising toward operational service; its first squadron of jets is to be formally commissioned later this year.

Despite the fledgling fighter’s lack of real-world experience, the platform has already elicited interest from potential customers abroad.

Through their foreign offices in New Delhi, Sri Lanka and Egypt are asking for information to support a potential purchase. Sri Lanka recently aborted a plan to acquire JF-17 fighters, designed by China and built by Pakistan. The country has dismissed speculation it was swayed by intense diplomatic pressure from neighboring India, with which it has shared a close but turbulent history. In New Delhi’s strategic circles, the decision appears a tactical victory in efforts to stave off Chinese influence with Indian Ocean nations.

Egypt, traditionally friendly with India, recently signed on for 24 Rafale fighters. Still, Egypt is deeply interested in discussing Tejas as a front-line tactical interceptor, and for training.

These conversations follow Tejas’s international debut at the Bahrain International Airshow in January.

International interest comes as the Indian air force has moved past the program’s developmental difficulties and finally defined its Tejas procurement plan. The service will buy 120 Tejas fighters in a configuration designated the Mk. 1A. The variant includes maintainability improvements such as access to equipment and interchangeable panels; air-to-air refueling capability; an internal radar-warning receiver and external self-protection jammer pod to enhance survivability; an indigenously developed active, electronically scanned array radar and the ability to deploy different types of beyond-visual-range and close-combat air-to-air missiles.

In February, a Tejas limited series platform fired a beyond-visual-range missile—a Rafael Derby—for the first time. And it has already fired the Vympel R-73 close-combat missile. Upcoming trials will test air-to-air refueling and supersonic flight with drop tanks.

India’s state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL), which builds Tejas, plans to ramp up production to 16 or more aircraft a year from nine.

The company says its primary commitment is to the Indian air force, for now. “The [ministry of defense] has cleared an extensive marketing campaign for the Tejas to potential customers abroad,” says a senior HAL official. “There will be significant activity toward that end this year and the next.”

The service flew a Tejas at its recent Iron Fist 2016 firepower demonstration in the country’s western desert ranges, a display ritual to which ambassadors and foreign diplomats are invited. This year, Tejas flaunted a precision bombing mission to underscore an important step forward in its capability.

While HAL now has firm orders for 120 Tejas Mk. 1A jets, it has not committed to the Mk. 2 platform already under development. The Mk. 2 program will continue even without firm orders: It has financial sanction from the government, says a senior officer at the Aeronautical Development Agency, which is developing the Tejas.

Ultimately, the air force is likely to buy the improved Mk. 2 version, which promises at least on paper to address service complaints with the original type.

“The [Indian air force] needs light tactical fighters. Nearly 200 MiG-21 jets still in service will be gone in the next few years,” says the officer. “There is a big void to fill. And it can’t do that with more heavy jets.”

HAL is in parallel discussions with Sweden’s Saab to sign it up as technology partner for the Mk. 2 version of Tejas. The improvement centers around the replacement of the existing GE F414 engine with one offering a wider operational envelope—including an increase in aircraft thrust-to-weight ratio, initial rate of climb and maximum speed, apart from an entirely new suite of sensors.

While Saab has expressed interest in the past in collaborating on the Tejas program, it has separately offered to build its new-generation Gripen NG in India under the “Make in India” manufacturing initiative that seeks to incentivize local production.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 27 May 2016 01:42

I hope we don't end up with Gripen NG as the 'other' light fighter.

srai · Post by **srai** » 27 May 2016 02:30

^^^

Will India deliberately rollback hard-earned indigenous efforts/achievements? Time will tell.

NachiketM · Post by **NachiketM** » 27 May 2016 06:23

Gripen NG looks to be a good fighter ... If the gov allows SAAB to make Gripen in India then it provides good employment and training oppurtunities for our engineers and private companies ... This will definately benefit the private sector and put them on world map as well as provide them with technical knowhow ...
Not to forget the SAAB guys commitment on TOT ...
I see this with a very optimistic view ...
http://idrw.org/defence-manufacturing-i ... -modi-wsj/

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 27 May 2016 07:09

BS..The gripen will never serve in Indian Air force. They can go and hawk to pakistan like the eyerie.

rahulm · Post by **rahulm** » 27 May 2016 07:26

All export orders will need US clearance due to the GE turbofan. Another way Uncle can influence our foreign policy. Replacing an engine is a big ask and of a different order than replacing Israel/other avionics.

A desi turbofan should be a generously funded strategic initiative of the highest priority.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 27 May 2016 08:39

As we always guessed about Tata's engineering capability and approaches more likely win closer ties with DRDO in precision engineering and technology. I think they should take it further sky-high and enable and empower a strong GTRE-GE-Tata relationship to give oomph shots for Kaveri 120kN.

http://103.241.136.50/epaper/DC/HYD/510 ... aip2_4.jpg

Again, we could have another coin for LCA

Last Chance for Airforce!

the name calling trend is reversed for the user now. they better start taking responsible role as stakeholders

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 27 May 2016 09:55

India will not buy gripen as long as the current dispensation is in Delhi. I am very certain of that.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 27 May 2016 10:30

Vietnam May Request F-16s, P-3 Orions From US
http://www.defensenews.com/story/defens ... /84904786/

Here is a great opportunity to pitch the Tejas for Vietnam. Vietnam will be replacing large number of Mig-21's from their fleet. And Tejas meant to replace Mig-21's is the perfect fit for Vietnam Air Force needs. Also rather than get F-16's from U.S, Tejas from India will not cause political issues with Russia.

Seems Mig-21's got replaced. Now they may have some new requirement for a light combat aircraft. Also they have a need to replace their trainer aircraft. HTT-40 will fit perfectly. May be they have much more needs. India must look at this opportunity and cement the ties between the countries in the defense sphere.

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 27 May 2016 10:37

We can try and export LCA Tejas to Vietnam, since US has removed the arms embargo on them re-export of GE engines should not be a problem. To make it happen the government can offer JV between HAL and Vietnam that will assemble Tejas in Vietnam from SKD kits supplied by HAL

rahulm · Post by **rahulm** » 27 May 2016 11:43

It's a good to be able to finally celebrate the Tejas coming of age with the ACM flying it. It has been a long and torturous journey. Symbolism is not very useful but sometimes it serves some purpose. It's a story of grit, determination, focus and persistence against severe odds.

GF did his bit and Parrikar carried it across the line. I have no doubt he had a lot to do with the change in the IAF attitude. (As an aside, what's holding him up in repeating this with the Arjun?)

(People would do well to remember the letter written by Lockheed? on the eve of the first flight advising him against it citing a whole host of reasons. I have lost my link to the jpg) GF wisely ignored the letter and the rest is history.

Talking about attitudes to the LCA - here's a story.

One hot summer morning, at a bus stop in NDA Khadakwasla, I was waiting, at my usual time for my usual PMT khatara bus to take me to COEP college. The usual motley group of bleary eyed early morning passengers were present - one of them a rather attractive and confident lady, who, often took the same bus as I but we did not know each other. That was about to change.

This morning, she walked upto me and introduced herself saying that she saw me here everyday, told me more about herself and asked if I would come to see her and her husband of an evening. NDA is a closed secure community and one never worries about safety, talking to strangers precautions and the usual civvy street stuff. I agreed. She further said that I came across as an honest, sincere guy

and she trusted her instincts.

That evening, I went to the address given me. I was warmly welcomed by her and her husband. The purpose of their request I shall not go deep into suffice to say they wanted me to do some tutoring and mentoring for one of their family members who was having academic challenges at the SSC. They offered compensation which I declined. All in NDA are a big family.

Now, the husband as it turns out was a senior officer in the IAF. An accomplished MiG 21 pilot in-fact. At the time, Lohegaon AFB also had MiG's. During my, by now, regular visits, after tutoring, over a beer or a few, we would sit and chat and he told me a lot lovely stories.

I heard about all the jaw dropping, eye popping stuff the IAF officers were doing with he MiG 21 in the western dessert that the Russians had never intended for the fighter and were amazed when they saw it.

He was/is a wonderful, charismatic, down to earth officer, the quintessential gentleman in every way, always calm and composed, Proficient and professional. Can't speak highly enough of him. However, the one and only topic that got always him agitated was the LCA, the mere mention of which would cause him to launch into derogatory speeches about the project.

His constant and fiery assassination of the project used to leave me speechless and wondering. He had a special term for the project team - he called them Kalurams. he used to say "There is no way we Kalurams can ever successfully design a front line fighter jet. "We should be realistic" etc along these lines.

I didn't then and still don't have an idea of how many in the IAF hold similar views but, I always wondered even if a small minority had views anywhere close to his, then the project is up against it.

This particular officer was a fine officer, a fine gentleman, competent, happy to fight for the country but when it came to the LCA he was a clear non supporter and maybe even vitriolic.

Therefore, I think, its a great achievement that the LCA is where it is now having fought itself through major battles even before it has fought its first war.

And yes, the family member in question did clear the SSC and I got a big fat reward despite my sincere protestations.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 27 May 2016 22:55

rahulm wrote: GF did his bit and Parrikar carried it across the line. I have no doubt he had a lot to do with the change in the IAF attitude. (As an aside, what's holding him up in repeating this with the Arjun?)

When you statements like above, you run the risk of taking wrong lessons from the event.

Let me put it this way - LCA Mk1A meets most of the requirements which IAF wanted from actual LCA. Did Parrikar manage to get R&D establishment to give IAF the fighter it wanted rather than what R&D establishment thought they should be OK with?

From here:http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... t-2815916/

That is what leadership is all about. I ensured that ADA delivers what the Air Force wanted. I had 18 meetings with them, we sorted it out. Finally, the Air Force says it will buy 120 Tejas aircraft

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 27 May 2016 23:23

rahulm wrote:
He was/is a wonderful, charismatic, down to earth officer, the quintessential gentleman in every way, always calm and composed, Proficient and professional.

Not to judge your judgement of a person's character, but

He had a special term for the project team - he called them Kalurams. he used to say "There is no way we Kalurams can ever successfully design a front line fighter jet. "We should be realistic" etc along these lines.

He seems like a racist ass and someone who would rather have approval from others, specially whites. A lot of people who come across as perfectly fine have many dark sides which most of their acquaintances never know.
I am not a huge fanboy and I will not put all blame on IAF for trouble with LCA, but such people like this officer do mor eharm than good.

disha · Post by **disha** » 27 May 2016 23:26

rahulm wrote:
His constant and fiery assassination of the project used to leave me speechless and wondering. He had a special term for the project team - he called them Kalurams. he used to say "There is no way we Kalurams can ever successfully design a front line fighter jet. "We should be realistic" etc along these lines.

Let me guess., this officer is from Naaarth., from Delhi?

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 27 May 2016 23:40

Haha .. kalurams.. we could make LCA down a paki fighter jet lurking near the border and hand out compensation too. Will be worth the trouble but will prove a point.

But then, going by major non NATO TFTA pakis not able to make a plane, one can say the same for TFTA.

It is interesting to note that such criticism will not come forth, and no one will talk about "can't kalurams build engines" because not all blue blooded goras make engines. That engine question is too much of a hassle.