LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Karan M » 20 Mar 2016 00:17

>>How many decades have passed? It's happily building obsolete Do228.

Even there, RuAG has replaced HAL with TATA iirc for future programs.
http://www.indiastrategic.in/topstories ... _Wings.htm

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Karan M » 20 Mar 2016 00:21

This is the HAL 5G picture from the original site.
Image

The one in the model is likely the Russian PAKFA itself
Image

You can make out the complete difference in the fuselage when looking from the back

See T-50:
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-XAksZ51Lul8/ ... k+fa-1.jpg

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby tsarkar » 20 Mar 2016 00:40

^^ HAL is just a mirror of national attitude. There are some ground rules in negotiations. No one can bully you if you do not allow them to. We should've been very assertive to our ToT rights. However, we're gradually becoming self conscious to this. The Rafale negotiations are a healthy indicator - we may invite Hollande to be Chief Guest on Republic Day, but we're not signing a bad deal.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Karan M » 20 Mar 2016 00:48

agree completely about national attitude, which "flows" from our dysfunctional import happy political masters who ruled us for so many years. MOD happily went along with that. HAL took its cue.

Problem is now, what is our negotiating power, all the french have to do is go slow on mirage 2000 upgrade and scorpene.. and even if we threaten counter sanctions in turn, they would have just "spiked" our combat power. same issue with how the russians treated us on T-90, Sukhoi-30 TOT etc and at the last moment decided otherwise on MLRS, Mig-21 TOT etc..

only recourse is aggressive indigenization.

HAL etc need to be told firmly they cant wait forever for russian TOT and have to work with pvt firms or indigenize locally.. that should be core index of HAL performance not how much dividend they return to MOD (farcical recycling of GOI funds).

this is what china has done. they have made "chinese sukhois" and apart from engines they have indigenized everything.. now that may be one level less than what latest is available from russia, but still independence.

in our case, can HAL even make Bars equivalent on its own. or indigenize what we currently import. they dont have a proper program for that.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Kakkaji » 20 Mar 2016 05:16

So there may be some substance in reports that surfaced earlier where Dassault said that the HAL labour costs on manufacturing the Rafale would be much higher than the Dassault labour costs in France. That sounded like BS then, but maybe it wasn't.

Unlike the esteemed posters on this forum, I am not against screwdriver-giri in building advanced military products in India. At he very least it supports the families of those who would otherwise be doing much lower paying menial jobs.

If you do screwdriver-giri efficiently, more and more screwdriver-work moves to your location. You build a stable core industry, and then start branching up the value chain.

The problem with HAL, OFB and other DPSUs has been that they have been very inefficient (slow and expensive) even in doing screwdriver-giri. So, after 60 years and hundreds of billions of dollars, India still does not have a robust mil-industrial complex that can deliver either low or high-tech products on time with the quantity and quality that the forces need at a price they can afford.

That is why the current GOI is pushing the Make in India which, initially, would look like screwdriver-giri in the private sector. Those deals would be severely criticized by the Mil Gurus of BRF, but I don't see another way out.

JMT

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby member_22733 » 20 Mar 2016 05:54

It also increases the demand for skilled labor, which increases the demand for skills training. Both of which are the foundations of a strong mil-industrial complex.

Indian engineering talent (to the level that i am exposed to) has always been either at Engineering/design level or at menial carpenter/mason level jobs. There is an enormous gap in the middle IMVVHO. Former is legacy of britshit style education mixed with Nehruvian world-view. The latter is the result of what Nehruvian world-view ignored. The guys doing masonry jobs today should have been doing the skilled technician job if India had truly developed.

Make in India will increase demands for people with skill levels that fall in the gap. There are enormous long term advantages to such a thing, as it also makes it easy for a "startup-skunkworks" kind of org to source talent at all levels and get a prototype going fast.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby member_29245 » 20 Mar 2016 09:30

Kakkaji wrote:So there may be some substance in reports that surfaced earlier where Dassault said that the HAL labour costs on manufacturing the Rafale would be much higher than the Dassault labour costs in France. That sounded like BS then, but maybe it wasn't.

Unlike the esteemed posters on this forum, I am not against screwdriver-giri in building advanced military products in India. At he very least it supports the families of those who would otherwise be doing much lower paying menial jobs.

If you do screwdriver-giri efficiently, more and more screwdriver-work moves to your location. You build a stable core industry, and then start branching up the value chain.

The problem with HAL, OFB and other DPSUs has been that they have been very inefficient (slow and expensive) even in doing screwdriver-giri. So, after 60 years and hundreds of billions of dollars, India still does not have a robust mil-industrial complex that can deliver either low or high-tech products on time with the quantity and quality that the forces need at a price they can afford.

That is why the current GOI is pushing the Make in India which, initially, would look like screwdriver-giri in the private sector. Those deals would be severely criticized by the Mil Gurus of BRF, but I don't see another way out.

JMT


Let's say if HAL was the problem then

Why is pricing still the issue now ?

Now we are buying rafales flyaway directly from dasault

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Gyan » 20 Mar 2016 11:28

HAL should launch MKIski as a stealth development of Su-30MKI like J-20 and AMCA, LCA-3, Aurora as development of LCA. Ditch both PAKFA and Rafale.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby kit » 20 Mar 2016 13:08

Gyan wrote:HAL should launch MKIski as a stealth development of Su-30MKI like J-20 and AMCA, LCA-3, Aurora as development of LCA. Ditch both PAKFA and Rafale.


at best it can be something like a silent Eagle F15 ! .. but the basic tech remains the same .. how far can u go with RAM coatings , IR suppressors , conformal fuel tanks etc ?

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Gyan » 20 Mar 2016 14:03

I meant use Su-30MKI tech base to make something like J-20 and not silent Eagle

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Bihanga » 20 Mar 2016 18:06

Frankly speaking we Indians are quite aloof to latest armed aggression happening on our Northen frontier called as Sino-Pak economic Corridor apparently as an answers to India's damaging reply to Pak Ceasefire aggression previous year. Hence we are seeing presence of PLA troops on Pak's forward post adjoining LOC, because Rawalpindi GHQ is reconciled to the fact that anymore ceasefire aggression to cover militant intrusion across LOC will met with disproportionate hostility by India, hence shielding themselves behind PLA in the guise of securing economic corridor.

In the shadow of this happening, Indian Armed Forces must review their Combat doctrine to begin with and must peacefully reconcile to in house available resource driven knowhow based technology and weapon making support from domestic market.Because shortage and unavailability of key weapon systems from Artillery shells to Submarines to shrinking Fighter Squadrons has reached to alarming proportion specifically with the prospect of facing China-Pak axis on two front is getting apparent in near future, as PLA is intent on confronting India on LOC front in alliance with Pak.

IAF must prepare to bring Tejas on active squadron duties in its present form itself because any further delay will only embolden China-Pak axis to threaten our Northen Frontier as both this countries are in the guise of Economic Corridor engaged in strenthning their military infra on our own soil-PoK. IAF and GOI must take this into account, since anymore delay just to get AESA and GE-414 equipped LCA will matter very little in future.

As some members as suggested above to learn from Chinese successful reverse engineering of Flanker and LAVI aka J-10 project, my opinion that is very tall order for IAF and HAL to replicate. My opinion is to learn from their J-8 and JH-7 project where they successfully inducted them in hundred's as Air Launched Cruise missile carrier and Limited Air interception capability without bothering about LCC, low thrust engines and limited radar & sensor suits and still improvising despite Flanker induction and using these jets deterrence against USN.

Am not suggesting IAF should trade off capability with induction of TEJAS Mk1 and merely stay as an Airforce only for All out War, they must extend themselves beyond retirement and replacement of inventory with unattainable technological requirements and instead rise as a spearhead of deterrence against likes of happening as implied above on Northern Frontier.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby SanjayC » 20 Mar 2016 18:33

IAF should stop cribbing about LCA Tejas
The fighter aircraft may not be the best, but is the best we can afford.
http://www.dailyo.in/politics/tejas-i-l ... /9604.html


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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Cosmo_R » 20 Mar 2016 21:54

Harin wrote:...
Let's say if HAL was the problem then

Why is pricing still the issue now ?

Now we are buying rafales flyaway directly from dasault


The outright purchase price (including setting up base capability) is high because France does not buy a/c on the scale of the US and yet its R&D cost per plane is likely similar.

Dassault's point was that if they then had to assemble/make in India, it would cost 2.7x the outright purchase price.

The brilliantly constructed MMRCA was conducted on a price agnostic basis. The shock came after the down-select and they found the L1 price was something we could not afford.

The current price Dassault is offering appears to be lower than the original MMRCA price but still a lot higher than an FMS sale for F-16/18 or, as brar_w has pointed out, than for the JSF as it ramps up production.

No amount of negotiation with Dassault is going to make them sell it to us at 'friendship' prices. The whole exercise is a complete waste of time and the delay is dangerous. The choices before us are:

1. Buy the Rafale and blow hole in the rest of our military capability
2. Buy the F/18/JSF, get a good price and get dependent on the US
3. Buy more SU-30s and become more dependent on the Russians

In all of the above cases, build and buy 300+ LCAs at the rate of 2 Squadrons a year AND rethink the AMCA into a larger/heavier fighter that is less cutting edge than currently envisioned because the FGFA is another fighter we won't be able to afford.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Cain Marko » 20 Mar 2016 22:04

Very interesting posts....So, the only options, and this explains why further orders for mki have not yet come about, are....a conversion of mki line to more tejas or something like a super hornet. Another possibility is that extra mkis continue at nasik while a private player is brought in to screwdriver giri with some phoren manufacturer like boeing. Now we know why MP has been talking about second line.

So the second line is only for the private player. Only way to get around the hal conundrum is to make it compete with others. There seems to be no other way out...You can't simply wave a stick at psu like hal and expect it to comply, not in a democracy like india, there will be massive political fall out.

The best option imho is tata with boeing.

Wish we could give tejas to private player but I guess there is too little experience there at this point, perhaps AMCA will be produced private

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Khalsa » 20 Mar 2016 23:27

Cosmo_R wrote:Build and buy 300+ LCAs at the rate of 2 Squadrons a year AND rethink the AMCA into a larger/heavier fighter that is less cutting edge than currently envisioned because the FGFA is another fighter we won't be able to afford.



i think this is the way to go.
However I think stick with a slightly toned down version of the cutting edge.
Much to learn and the lessons can then be put on the next iterations of whatever class we decide to build.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby PratikDas » 21 Mar 2016 06:15

HT: IAF to evaluate key failures during ‘Iron Fist’ at Pokhran

On the positive side, the IAF said the Light Combat Aircraft scored hits with its LGB and R-73E air-to-air-missile in the first public display of the indigenous fighter’s capabilities during the exercise.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby JE Menon » 21 Mar 2016 17:40

All posts related to F-16 deleted by me

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby tsarkar » 21 Mar 2016 18:24

Karan M wrote:Problem is now, what is our negotiating power, all the french have to do is go slow on mirage 2000 upgrade and scorpene.. and even if we threaten counter sanctions in turn, they would have just "spiked" our combat power. same issue with how the russians treated us on T-90, Sukhoi-30 TOT etc and at the last moment decided otherwise on MLRS, Mig-21 TOT etc..

Refer the example of INS Talwar with malfunctioning Shtil missiles. IN refused to take delivery and flew crew home. IN was willing to write off the money. MoD bureaucracy and political leadership was intimated of IN's organizational stance, and were not allowed any interference in operational matters. The Russians came around.

Being assertive for the right reasons does not have any negative impact. What will they do? Sell PAKFA & Rafale to Pakistan? Ask the Swedes if they were ever paid for Erieye. Or how much business Russians got with 4 Mi-35.

Coming back to Tejas, its a golden opportunity for HAL to become a world class manufacturer without such ToT dependencies rather than try to peddle more Hawk AJTs.

What happens to the Nasik line after 2018-19 will be an indicator of the direction of Indian aviation.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby SanjayC » 21 Mar 2016 20:42

LCA Tejas 'missed' target during Iron Fist 2016, says IAF official
http://www.ibnlive.com/news/india/lca-t ... 19386.html

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby suryag » 21 Mar 2016 20:55

This was more or less expected after the report that the others missed the target, man they are so predictable

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby member_29350 » 21 Mar 2016 21:45

And the article itself is a no news filler. Nothing wrong with the a/c or pilot but a faulty guidance or snag in paras midway in it. And that doesn't jive with the title

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Kakarat » 21 Mar 2016 21:53

SanjayC wrote:LCA Tejas 'missed' target during Iron Fist 2016, says IAF official
http://www.ibnlive.com/news/india/lca-t ... 19386.html


The article seems more DDMish to me

"The LGB fired from the LCA (Tejas) missed the target and we are looking at it as to why it occurred. There was a malfunction of the bomb," a senior air force official said, adding, there was "no fault" of the pilot or with the aircraft itself.

The official declined to call it a "failure", saying it is "extremely ordinary (routine) for a missile to hit the target".

"It had gone very close to the target," he added.


There seems to be a confusion between LGB and R-73

The event also saw LCA Tejas and Light Combat Helicopter (LCH) firing Missile 73E. It could not be seen with the naked eye whether the missile fired by Tejas had hit the target.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby ramana » 21 Mar 2016 22:07

Kakarat, Looks like the ordnance dropped by LCA also had issues. Not just the Mirage and the OSA SAM.
Only the LCA dropped LGB had issues with the bomb itself.

It could be obsolete ordnance being used up for demos.

---

Added later:

"The LGB fired from the LCA (Tejas) missed the target and we are looking at it as to why it occurred. There was a malfunction of the bomb," a senior air force official said, adding, there was "no fault" of the pilot or with the aircraft itself.

The official declined to call it a "failure", saying it is "extremely ordinary (routine) for a missile to hit the target".

"It had gone very close to the target," he added.



The Mirage also did not fire owing to the bad weather.

"The weather was not conducive and then seconds before the missile could be fired, the pilot did not see the target. We did not want to take any chance as the VVIPs were there, so we told the pilot not to fire," the official said.



The Mirage 2000 failure as a US Paveway II guided LG bomb. Here they say it didn't hit the target.The LCA is also a LGB. They don't say which one it is. However they say it hit the target but didn't go off. Since they didn't mention Paveway like they did with the Mirage, it might be different.

I think there could be common cause. Paveway is for the 1000 lb MC bomb. Even LCA flights have dropped this previously.

1000 lb bomb has high dud rate. Since World War II.
So lets wait to see if there is common cause.


The missiles there is explanation of near miss/proximity fuze.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby member_27581 » 21 Mar 2016 23:18

Looks like the reporter is trying to put words into the mouth of IAF officer. Seems like some reporter are still living in the LCA bashing era of late, obsolete and this just rings bells in their empty upper chambers.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby member_27581 » 21 Mar 2016 23:40

SanjayC wrote:IAF should stop cribbing about LCA Tejas
The fighter aircraft may not be the best, but is the best we can afford.
http://www.dailyo.in/politics/tejas-i-l ... /9604.html


While almost all of posters here support LCA and like the spirit but the arguments in this article are trash.
Here are my few cents about this farticle
1. Do you really think we should compare ourselves with USAF or USA. Our War philosophies, Defence budges, size of AF, #Aircrafts, R&D base are very different (behind) USAAF.
2. The article doesn't make any mention of any threat in our neighbourhood.
3. Based upon premise that we have been poor peepul hungry peepul and we should live like that always, no thoughts about changes in our economy since we last acquired fighter aircrafts
4. We never operated best in class aircraft, yet Su 30 had a match in F18
5. The number crunching of $150 Bn is also not great, it fails to take in account that it will be amortized over a period of time (most likely lifecycle of aircraft) which will be easily 30-35 years. Still high, yet missing out that part makes someone feel that we need to shell out this amount as we are purchasing groceries at big bazaar in kormangala.

Lastly some of the arguments seem to be picked straight from BRF. I have seen the admiral gorshkov statement quoted on BRF many times (although no one including Gorshkov has copy right on that)

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby ramana » 21 Mar 2016 23:49

Its by Ravi Rikhye the webmaster for orbat.com

He used to be a forum member.

So could be similar thinking.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby shiv » 22 Mar 2016 06:49

ramana wrote:The Mirage 2000 failure as a US Paveway II guided LG bomb. Here they say it didn't hit the target.The LCA is also a LGB. They don't say which one it is. However they say it hit the target but didn't go off. Since they didn't mention Paveway like they did with the Mirage, it might be different.

I think there could be common cause. Paveway is for the 1000 lb MC bomb. Even LCA flights have dropped this previously.

1000 lb bomb has high dud rate. Since World War II.
So lets wait to see if there is common cause.


The missiles there is explanation of near miss/proximity fuze.


Paveway guided bombs, off the top of my head, have a CEP of about 10 meters. That is why bigger is better for paveway guided bombs. In my long BRF discussion about SDBs I found that the basic SDB has a CEP of 5 meters, being reduced to 1 meter in the newer version. For that a small explosive is fine

CEP means 50% of the bombs will fall within that radius. It also means 50% will fall outside. Should not forget that. But if the bomb from the LCA did not go off how did DD manage to suddenly pan out from VIP chai biskoot to a huge, fresh dust could. IAF is doing some deliberate obfuscation about what worked and what didn't

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby chetak » 22 Mar 2016 07:21

Harin wrote:
Kakkaji wrote:So there may be some substance in reports that surfaced earlier where Dassault said that the HAL labour costs on manufacturing the Rafale would be much higher than the Dassault labour costs in France. That sounded like BS then, but maybe it wasn't.

Unlike the esteemed posters on this forum, I am not against screwdriver-giri in building advanced military products in India. At he very least it supports the families of those who would otherwise be doing much lower paying menial jobs.

If you do screwdriver-giri efficiently, more and more screwdriver-work moves to your location. You build a stable core industry, and then start branching up the value chain.

The problem with HAL, OFB and other DPSUs has been that they have been very inefficient (slow and expensive) even in doing screwdriver-giri. So, after 60 years and hundreds of billions of dollars, India still does not have a robust mil-industrial complex that can deliver either low or high-tech products on time with the quantity and quality that the forces need at a price they can afford.

That is why the current GOI is pushing the Make in India which, initially, would look like screwdriver-giri in the private sector. Those deals would be severely criticized by the Mil Gurus of BRF, but I don't see another way out.

JMT


Let's say if HAL was the problem then

Why is pricing still the issue now ?

Now we are buying rafales flyaway directly from dasault


labor costs simply cannot he higher. French wages are way much higher in rupee terms

May be the french worker has marginally higher productivity but they only work about 35 hrs a week. OT for them is prohibitively expensive

in Indian PSUs if OT is admissible, then two shifts are usually simply wiped out so that some "productivity" can be shown to justify OT

Additional costs of OT shifts are food and other "perks"

In an unnamed PSU in India's silicon valley, if one were to peek under the gutter covers, literally hundreds of empty liquor bottles would stare back at you, and mind you all this in the knowledge of a "hapless" union neutered management.

workers are the dadas, senior workers control the juniors by threat and sheer intimidation so that the "ecosystem" is not contaminated and sincere hardworking officers are the bhakaras as they are the only ones accountable to senior management and often take the brunt of abuse. Some smart effing officers swipe in and push off to run private businesses and work for other companies. They sneak back in the evening and swipe out.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby SivaVijay » 22 Mar 2016 07:27

The Mysterious IAF Senior IAF officer resurfaces

The above report is also there on NDTV, A concerted campaign to malign Tejas and push imports seems to be afoot. It has been always there but they are trying to gather momentum now.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby ramana » 22 Mar 2016 07:36

SivaVijay wrote:The Mysterious IAF Senior IAF officer resurfaces

The above report is also there on NDTV, A concerted campaign to malign Tejas and push imports seems to be afoot. It has been always there but they are trying to gather momentum now.




Tejas-Fired Bomb Missed Target During Iron Fist 2016, Probe Ordered

The Indian Air Force initially said the laser-guided bomb and an air-to-air missile fired by Tejas had engaged targets with "deadly precision". (File Photo)
New Delhi:
Highlights

1. Bomb missing target not due to pilot error, says senior Air Force officer
2. Laser-guided kit imported from Israel may have malfunctioned
3. Air Force initially said Tejas engaged targets with 'deadly precision'

A laser-guided bomb fired by the indigenous Tejas light combat aircraft missed its target during an exercise in Pokhran in Rajasthan and a probe had been ordered into this, a senior Indian Air Force officer said on Monday.

This apart, the 'Iron Fist 2016' exercise on Friday was "largely successful", the officer said, adding the bomb missing the target was not due to pilot error.
New Delhi:
Highlights

1. Bomb missing target not due to pilot error, says senior Air Force officer
2. Laser-guided kit imported from Israel may have malfunctioned

3. Air Force initially said Tejas engaged targets with 'deadly precision'

A laser-guided bomb fired by the indigenous Tejas light combat aircraft missed its target during an exercise in Pokhran in Rajasthan and a probe had been ordered into this, a senior Indian Air Force officer said on Monday.

This apart, the 'Iron Fist 2016' exercise on Friday was "largely successful", the officer said, adding the bomb missing the target was not due to pilot error.

"It is very much clear that there was no pilot error or technical snag. It was probably the laser-guided kit imported from Israel that may have malfunctioned," the official said.

The Indian Air Force initially said the laser-guided bomb and an air-to-air missile fired by Tejas had engaged targets with "deadly precision".

The official said Tejas was granted a kill even though the laser proximity fuse, which guides the bomb to the target, did not fire.

'Iron Fist 2016' exercise saw the participation of 181 aircraft and firing of 71 bombs, 500 rockets and at least five air-to-air missiles.

"If one or two bombs could not hit the targets, it is completely normal during such mammoth firepower demonstration," the official said.


Shiv Looks like Griffin and not Paveway from LCA.
Folks please data and not comments.

From tribune:


Ajay Banerjee

Tribune News Service

New Delhi, March 21
The Indian Air Force is conducting a probe as to how a bomb fired by the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), Tejas, missed its target during the exercise ‘Iron Fist 2016’ at Pokhran, Rajasthan, on March 18. The LCA, which is nearing final operational clearance, also fired a missile, ‘R 73 E’, which hit its target and was a success. A senior IAF functionary gave a clean chit to the LCA, its firing mechanisms and also its pilots, saying a laser-guided bomb (LGB) missed the target. Such a miss is not a ‘big thing’. It is a very ordinary occurrence which can be corrected, the official said. Three separate IAF fighter jets had fired the laser-guided bombs, and the one on the LCA failed. The bomb is made in India, while its laser-guidance mechanism is imported.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby shiv » 22 Mar 2016 08:34

ramana wrote:
Shiv Looks like Griffin and not Paveway from LCA.
Folks please data and not comments.


No.

Here is the original Doordarshan video and I will post the time from which to watch
https://youtu.be/IPNbzqfmpE8

Start around 1:27 or so and keep watching for the Sukhoi with Griffin attacking target no 9 which is seen intact after the mission. No sound heard

Start around 1hr:35min:20sec for the LCA. The sound of an exposition is heard while they are showing the cockpit relay. Seconds later a huge cloud of dust is shown. But no idea whether it hit or missed

So
1. Su-30 Griffin. Did not explode
2. Tejas : LGB bomb exploded. Don't know whether it hit

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby jayasimha » 22 Mar 2016 09:33

TEJAS Missed Target At IAF Drill Watched by Modi, President

http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/ ... 339496.ece

is newspaper / is admi ka pet me kitana dard he.... bap bap baap..
.
Indian express was once upholding "Indian" nationalism. I dont know how and when it became such a DDM.

When PAKFA caught loose motion in front of the whole world during "MAKS" airshow,,, no one even mentioned.
When some maiden flight takes place of our desi product is successful, they dont show on TV nor mention.

Where as a dumb bomb missing target is front page main article with photo.

I remember when all outside media was blocked for Naval LAC maiden flight, 1 TV channel had positioned himself on the compound of HAL on inner ring road with a powerful zoom camera to catch the flight. He is yelling at the top of his voice that ...media is blocked... yada yada yada... and then when the aircraft took to the skies he is saying this is naval LCA and purposely showing some drian water near the outside compound.

Their only motive seems to be to degrade/reverse our own swadeshi efforts..

Not that u all dont know.. but still i felt like typing..

Singha
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Singha » 22 Mar 2016 09:47

let us not forget the IN Commander who refused to sign off on the Talwar shtil issue and returned to india was killed by a hit and run vehicle while jogging in new delhi a few months later. no culprit was ever found.

delhi is encircled and under siege by a army of defence dalals with help from inside also.

Kakarat
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Kakarat » 22 Mar 2016 13:53

Photo of LCA Tejas SP-1 & SP-2 from @writetake

Image

looks like SP-2 is still months away from flying

Kakarat
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Kakarat » 22 Mar 2016 15:23

srai wrote:Full Iron Fist 2016.



This video shows LGB dropped by LCA Tejas Exploding
This is not the DD video its BJP's

member_22539
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby member_22539 » 22 Mar 2016 15:33

^The accusation is that it didn't hit the target. It was due to guidance errors of the LGB Kit, the Israeli Griffin, apparently. Although vested interests outside and even on this forum insinuates that it is somehow a failure by Tejas.

srai
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby srai » 22 Mar 2016 16:19

Kakarat wrote:
srai wrote:Full Iron Fist 2016.



This video shows LGB dropped by LCA Tejas Exploding
This is not the DD video its BJP's


Watch from 1:11:45 onwards for LCA action.

LCH is on 1:29:02.

Akshay Kapoor
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 22 Mar 2016 17:18

Arun Menon,

you see conspiracies where none are. I have not seen a single comment on this forum that has insinuated that Tejas has deficiencies. Munitions do malfunction and that's why in combat you would never use a single bomb on a target. The 'strike package' will always be multiple aircraft with multiple weapons. If the griffin malfunctioned then the IAF will look into it and take necessary steps.

Tejas has gained a lot of credibility in all quarters that matter.

You overreact and spew venom without any understanding nor experience of military matters. You really need to calm down and use your 'buddhi' a little bit. Because you end up playing into the hands of enemies. Even on the Indian Army forum you spewed venom against Indian Army training and 'Ek goli ek dushman'. I tried to explain the logic and rationale of fire discipline giving you concrete examples of training from regimental training centres / officer academies right up to units and Corps Battle School. But you didn't absorb any of it and continued speaking nonsense.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 22 Mar 2016 17:48

Singha wrote:let us not forget the IN Commander who refused to sign off on the Talwar shtil issue and returned to india was killed by a hit and run vehicle while jogging in new delhi a few months later. no culprit was ever found.

delhi is encircled and under siege by a army of defence dalals with help from inside also.



T Sarkar sir, is this correct ?


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