LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

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maitya
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby maitya » 23 Mar 2016 14:35

KBDagha wrote:Tejas not singled out during post-Iron Fist briefing: IAF......

Read more at: http://english.mathrubhumi.com/news/ind ... s-1.947890
http://english.mathrubhumi.com/news/ind ... s-1.947890

From the above links
"During the FDR (Full Dress Rehearsal) on March 15, Tejas hit all the targets as mandated by the mission. The pilots could lock on within 20 meters of the target. On March 18, it was cloudy and there were visibility issues as well. The R-73 pierced through the flare, something that was not visible for the spectators. It was not probably that spectacular as expected,” says an HAL official, who was part of the Tejas detachment.

<snip>

There’s absolutely a lack of awareness among a large section of people on the abilities of a fighter plane. Everything cannot be spectacular. This is Unfortunately Iron First was publicized as FPD and there’s more than what meet your eyes. In swing role, from an A-to-G (air-to-ground) attack mission Tejas got on to an A-to-A (air-to-air) mode, which is significant. The pilot swiftly moves to 6G to 8G during this phase,” says the official.

<snip>


Ouch!! This is surely going to hurt a few Russian-rakshaks here whose glee in highlighting the purported LCA failures as reported by the DDM presstitutes, was quite evident in various posts over last couple of pages here.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby member_28880 » 23 Mar 2016 14:40

http://english.mathrubhumi.com/news/india/tejas-not-singled-out-during-post-iron-fist-briefing-iaf-english-news-1.947890

Some of the bullet points from above:

The negative publicity for Tejas, which is on course towards fulfilling the Final Operational Clearance (FOC), is said to have caught the attention of Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar on Tuesday, who was chairing a top-level review meeting on the fighter programme in Delhi.......

During the meeting, the progress of Tejas was reviewed by Parrikar, who has now emerged as the strongest supporter for the home-grown project. Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha and a host of top Defence Research and Development Organisation officials were present during the review.......

“Ultimately, the IAF wants Tejas in large numbers and at a faster rate to form the squadron. Hopefully they (HAL-ADA) combine should be able to complete the remaining tasks without any delays. Unlike his predecessor (A K Antony), the RM (Parrikar) has a better hold on the project,” says the official


The IAF claimed that a total of 577 rockets were fired during the exercise and all were declared as hits. He said all the missiles fired were also on target.

“There’s absolutely a lack of awareness among a large section of people on the abilities of a fighter plane. Everything cannot be spectacular. This . is not a movie. Unfortunately Iron First was publicized as FPD and there’s more than what meet your eyes. In swing role, from an A-to-G (air-to-ground) attack mission, Tejas got on to an A-to-A (air-to-air) mode, which is significant. The pilot swiftly moves to 6G to 8G during this phase,” says the official.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 23 Mar 2016 14:42

Khalsa,

I agree , if indeed this officer was assassinated then God help us. Actually God helps those who helps themselves. I am shocked to see this. What a fine officer - Sword of Honour, Gunnery course dagger, DSSC and now this ? I think we all must do something about this. Perhaps write to the PM and bring such cases to his notice ?

I certainly will if I can get some more corroboration.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Austin » 23 Mar 2016 16:27

tsarkar wrote:Can you share any such official statement?

Because a road accident in civilian jurisdiction is beyond IN investigative authority. So IN cannot issue a statement for something it has not investigated.

The driver & cleaner were never found. The address in the DL was a fake address in Bihar.


I mean the official position I saw in some TV interview when this question was raised , Its not like the IN Top Echelon would not have taken note of this.

Put it simply there was nothing serious about the CT floating around with the accident , and I dont know if all road accidents in india leads to the person getting caught.

Probably its better to lay the matter to rest and May Commander,Nawaz Ahmed, Soul RIP

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby tsarkar » 23 Mar 2016 16:51

^^ You see, Austin, its the perfect hit & run case. 6 am isn't a crowded time on the road. The suspects - driver & cleaner - in this case were migrants. Migrant labor typically leave a lot of fingerprints. They share communal housing, drinking buddies, etc. They do not have a lot of money or cash about them. In the Delhi bus rape case and the Uber rape case, the perpetrators were picked up in hours. In this case, the perpetrators had no human contact with anyone like dinking buddies, housemates, etc. The contractor / truck owner could not provide any details. People leave trails - bus tickets / train tickets. These chaps just vanished.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Singha » 23 Mar 2016 17:41

even the slum lords who own dozens of pedal rickshaws and rent them out to rickshawallas for a % of daily income have a tight hold on inventory and people and will come down very hard on someone who leaves the line....his goons would catch any driver who tries to abscond with a vehicle....there is no question of unknowns being allowed to drive a valuable asset like a water tanker.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby member_26622 » 23 Mar 2016 17:52

Quick question - How come Pakis can churn out the bandar so fast while our HAL is asking millions for dishing out 8 or 16 per year? Bandar might be a mig-21 with good makeup but at the end of the day both bandar and LCA are 'NOT' stealth fighter (which I expect need a big step up in tolerances and production steps).

How can we get 500 LCA's within 5 years? Need this kind of capacity to export to other countries and why are we not splitting orders with another local team like Tata, Mahindra or Reliance to deliver LCA's?

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby brar_w » 23 Mar 2016 18:02

How can we get 500 LCA's within 5 years?


Any production plan has to involve looking right down the list of component suppliers and seeing what capacity they have, what capacity they can build and hurdles lie ahead in introducing a higher intensity of component supply and building that capacity (and sustaining it). Sometimes, you have to make component design, or production-process changes to account for high rate production. Then comes the production and assembly lines and designing one that can churn 50-100 aircraft a year. All in, such volumes involve a long lead time for obvious reasons since it takes time to build capacity right through your smallest supplier. Over the next 5 years, it is impossible to get 500. Can you do a rate of say 60 aircraft (5 a month) per year by 2020? Thats possible although still challenging.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby williams » 23 Mar 2016 18:33

Unless HAL is going to invest on a moving assembly line with a lot of automation, 60 planes per year will not be possible. I would say 30 planes per year should be a good modest goal.

The other issue will be operationalizing those numbers. Adding 30 planes into any air force inventory every year is not a joke. Every plane needs to go through rigorous operational clearance and I have a feeling Pakis are doing a lot of short-changing of standard procedures. For a suicide bombing terrorist state that may work-- surely we don't want that.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 23 Mar 2016 18:43

Surely the Pakis are getting most components from China. No way they are making most parts themselves. I can't imagine that any Industry in Pak or any enterprise short of Jihad Factory and ISI works.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby suryag » 23 Mar 2016 19:41

No pics yet for SP-2 ?

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby shiv » 23 Mar 2016 20:06

nik wrote:Quick question - How come Pakis can churn out the bandar so fast while our HAL is asking millions for dishing out 8 or 16 per year? Bandar might be a mig-21 with good makeup but at the end of the day both bandar and LCA are 'NOT' stealth fighter (which I expect need a big step up in tolerances and production steps).

How can we get 500 LCA's within 5 years? Need this kind of capacity to export to other countries and why are we not splitting orders with another local team like Tata, Mahindra or Reliance to deliver LCA's?

The JF-17 is an all metal plane (mostly). Certainly the wings are metal and probably has a lot of common jigs and presses that were used in China to make the F-7 and other aircraft.

The LCA has composite wings that cannot be pressed and bent into shape like metal. Fabric and glue have to be layered and the whole thing has to be cooked in autoclaves (large pressure cookers) custom designed and built for the process. I think you are being a little unkind in your concatenation of "Paki" JF-17 and Indian Tejas in apparent contempt for Indian capability versus Chinese transfer of assembly line

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby kvraghav » 23 Mar 2016 20:16

What type of proximity fuse does the r73 have? Is it a laser proxity fuse would a laser detector work against a high ir emitting target like a flare?

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby srai » 23 Mar 2016 20:20

^^^
They've been in production mode for a while now. Give LCA another couple of years to also deliver in good quantities.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby vishvak » 23 Mar 2016 20:25

The R-73 pierced through the flare, something that was not visible for the spectators.

tidbits from past, Iron Fist 2013 Tejas video from Livefist blog link
Courtesy ADA. See 1:40 to 1:50.

Gallery at tejas.gov.in for Iron Fist 2013. link

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Kakkaji » 23 Mar 2016 20:28

Akshay Kapoor wrote:Khalsa,

I agree , if indeed this officer was assassinated then God help us. Actually God helps those who helps themselves. I am shocked to see this. What a fine officer - Sword of Honour, Gunnery course dagger, DSSC and now this ? I think we all must do something about this. Perhaps write to the PM and bring such cases to his notice ?

I certainly will if I can get some more corroboration.


The head of the Arjun program also died in a road accident.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby shiv » 23 Mar 2016 21:19

vishvak wrote:
The R-73 pierced through the flare, something that was not visible for the spectators.

tidbits from past, Iron Fist 2013 Tejas video from Livefist blog link
Courtesy ADA. See 1:40 to 1:50.

Gallery at tejas.gov.in for Iron Fist 2013. link

Yes I have a video of that - need to put it up sometime. In 2013 the missile hit the parachute that the flare was hanging from.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Arunkumar » 23 Mar 2016 21:23

Kakkaji wrote:
Akshay Kapoor wrote:Khalsa,

I agree , if indeed this officer was assassinated then God help us. Actually God helps those who helps themselves. I am shocked to see this. What a fine officer - Sword of Honour, Gunnery course dagger, DSSC and now this ? I think we all must do something about this. Perhaps write to the PM and bring such cases to his notice ?

I certainly will if I can get some more corroboration.


The head of the Arjun program also died in a road accident.


Yes, that was in Rajasthan IIRC. Also a naval personnel's body was found near railway track few years back. I think he was associated with nuclear sub. Vaguely recollecting some reports of BARC deaths also. Dark decade : 2004 - 2014.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby ramana » 23 Mar 2016 21:34

Sudipt or maitya, Please post full text of @writetake article on IF 2016in the mil aviation thread. I couldn't copy.

Has a lot of information for analysis.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby tsarkar » 23 Mar 2016 22:33

nik wrote:Quick question - How come Pakis can churn out the bandar so fast while our HAL is asking millions for dishing out 8 or 16 per year?

How do you come to the conclusion that Pakistanis (or for that matter the Chinese) are churning out JF-17 so fast?

JF-17 orders are 8 PP (pre production) and 42 SBP (Serial Batch Production). These 50 comprise Block 1.

In 2011, 50 Block 2 was ordered with AAR as a major enhancement that is yet to see the light of the day.

Approx 20 Block 2 are in service.CCS borrows 5 JF-17 from operational squadrons.

So JF-17 annual assembly doesn't exceed 6-8 a year. They do it the same way HAL assembles IAPO kits

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby SanjayC » 23 Mar 2016 23:39

Kakkaji wrote:
Akshay Kapoor wrote:Khalsa,

I agree , if indeed this officer was assassinated then God help us. Actually God helps those who helps themselves. I am shocked to see this. What a fine officer - Sword of Honour, Gunnery course dagger, DSSC and now this ? I think we all must do something about this. Perhaps write to the PM and bring such cases to his notice ?

I certainly will if I can get some more corroboration.


The head of the Arjun program also died in a road accident.



11 Indian Nuclear Scientists Died Unnatural Deaths in 4 Years: Government
http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/11-india ... rs-1229793


Who is killing India's nuclear scientists?
http://www.rediff.com/news/report/who-i ... 150106.htm
'Forensics experts say in all such unexplained deaths of scientists and engineers involved in the nuclear programme, fingerprints are absent, as also other clues that would assist the police in identifying the culprit(s).'


Arjun tank developer dies in car crash
TIMES NEWS NETWORK
Chennai: A senior scientist involved in the development of Arjun main battle tank died when a lorry smashed into a car in which he was travelling at Dechhu near Jodhpur in Rajasthan around 3.30pm on Monday.
G K Kumaravel of the Combat Vehicles Research Development Establishment (CVRDE), Avadi, was head of the Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT) Mark 1 and 2 programmes. Police said he was on his way to Pokhran to participate in user trials of Arjun MBT Mark-2 when the accident occurred. Kumaravel died on the spot while senior CVRDE scientists P V Murali and Daniel Sunder Singh were injured. TNN
http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Reposito ... ID=Ar00903

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Karan M » 23 Mar 2016 23:46

So what does one do. Be happy at dumb bombs being all ok 9kudos for IAFs storage facilities, planning and its techs
Or be concerned at 2/3 not there rate of LGBs..ideally we should aggregate over tests so if this means 7 LGBs were used.. 4 in FDR and 3 in IF
"During the FDR (Full Dress Rehearsal) on March 15, Tejas hit all the targets as mandated by the mission"
And rate of misfire would be 2/7...which is reasonable.
Looks like smoke or cloudy weather is kyyrptonite for LG systems

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 24 Mar 2016 00:24

Using a google map tool to draw circles, I have done an analysis of Tejas Strike Ranges into Pak from WAC and SWAC airbases. Combat Radius is 200 km low low low with 2000 kgs and only internal fuel as per Vivek Ahuja's analysis. It is 275 km with one centreline tank.

WAC Bases

1. Adampur – Sialkot, Gujrat, Gujranwala, Nanka sahib and Lahore
2. Pathankot – Jhelum, Kharian, Hafizabad
3. Halwara – Lahore and just short of Bhawalnagar
4. Srinagar – Muzzafarabad, Islamabad, Rawalpindi, Naushera
5. Bhatinda – Bhawalnagar, Sahiwal, as south as Fort Abbas

Staging ops from Amristsar and Udhampur would give even more coverage. But I don't know if the airbases are equipped for fighter ops.

SWAC Bases

1. Phalodi – Can not hit deep in Pak but can hit an enemy offensive into Rajashthan giving coverage to Jaisalmer/Longewla, Bikaner
2. Uttarlai – Islamkot, Umarkot and can give coverage to Southern Rajshthan
3. Bhuj – Can hot upto 75 km in Sindh – Badin
4. Jaisalmer – does not have fighter squadrons now but has in the past – Rahimyar Khan, Sadiqbad etc.

With a 200 km combat radius Tejas can can fully support offensive into North and Central Pakjab (line North of Fort Abbas). With a centreline fuel tank and 275 k radius it can also support offensives into South Pakjab and Sindh.

In Air defence role with a 300 -350 km combat radius it can protect the entire IB in overlapping circles. Obviously Tejas will not be based at every airbase but the point I am making is that it can do the job it is meant for.

I would base Tejas in Srinagar, Pathankot, Adampur, Jaisalmer, Bhatinda, Bhuj and Uttarlai.
Last edited by Akshay Kapoor on 24 Mar 2016 00:32, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 24 Mar 2016 00:29

And Udhampur and Amritsar.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Cosmo_R » 24 Mar 2016 00:41

Re deaths of key personnel^^^. This is why I was very nervous about the extent of publicly available details on DRDO missile people. Nuff said.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby srai » 24 Mar 2016 02:50

Akshay Kapoor,

Good analysis. Where are the MiG-21Bisions and MiG-27UPG located now? Those would likely be the places for future LCA deployments.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 24 Mar 2016 12:37

Bisons :

Ambala has one or two bison sqdns but Adampur does not.

Ambala is more than 200 km from IB so its better to base Tejas in Adampur. Adampur has 2 Mig 29 Sqadrons to give air cover all over Punjab, J&K. But if the air base can be expanded to include a squadron or two of Tejas it would be very useful.

Pathankot, Srinagar, Uttarlai, Bhuj, Jodhpur, Phalodi, Sirsa , Naliya have Bison Sqdns.

I have included them all except Jodhpur, Sirsa and Naliya in my analysis. Sirsa is a good alternative to Bhathinda as its just a tiny bit closer to Cholistan desert where our offensive will go through. Naliya is another good base for Tejas. Jodhpur is too far for a strike into Pak. I prefer Jaisalmer. Between Jaisalmer, Uttarlai, Phalodi, Bhuj and Naliya all of Rajastahn and Sindh can be covered to about a depth of 50-60 km atleast.

We can also stage from Bikaner/Nal. It was used in Op Parakram.

Our offensives will come in Rajasthan and Sindh and Paki offensive will probably be in the Chamb/Jammu area. We should look at basing Tejas out of Udhampur and Jammu too.


Mig 27s

Halwara, Jodhpur (2 squadrons)

I have used Halwara but not Jodhpur which I think is too far from IB as explained above

So basing Tejas out of about 10 bases in WAC and SWAC gives full coverage of Pak

Please note this analysis is with 200 km combat radius with 275 km (centreline fuel tank and 2 ton payload) we can strike deeper.

We anyway need to upgrade these airbases with MAFI and build secure shelters and get AD coverage so that infrastructure investment is needed anyway.
Last edited by Akshay Kapoor on 24 Mar 2016 13:20, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby deejay » 24 Mar 2016 13:10

Akshay Kapoor wrote:Bisons :

Ambala has one or two bison sqdns but Adampur does not.

Ambala is more than 200 km from IB so its better to base Tejas in Adampur.

Pathankot, Srinagar, Uttarlai, Bhuj, Jodhpur, Phalodi, Sirsa , Naliya have Bison Sqdns.

I have included them all except Jodhpur, Sirsa and Naliya in my analysis. Sirsa is a good alternative to Bhathinda as its just a tiny bit closer to Cholistan desert where our offensive will go through. Naliya is another good base for Tejas. Jodhpur is too far for a strike into Pak. I prefer Jaisalmer. Between Jaisalmer, Uttarlai, Phalodi, Bhuj and Naliya all of Rajastahn and Sindh can be covered to about a depth of 50-60 km atleast.

We can also stage from Bikaner/Nal. It was used in Op Parakram.

Our offensives will come in Rajasthan and Sindh and Paki offensive will probably be in the Chamb/Jammu area. We should look at basing Tejas out of Udhampur and Jammu too.

Mig 27s


Sir,

Srinagar, Awantipur, Nalia, Suratgarh and Jamnagar should be part of your initial analysis on the Western Front.

Udhampur has an adequate runway but is in a bowl of high hills and susceptible to weather clampdowns.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby shiv » 24 Mar 2016 13:19

Akshay Kapoor wrote:Using a google map tool to draw circles, I have done an analysis of Tejas Strike Ranges into Pak from WAC and SWAC airbases. Combat Radius is 200 km low low low with 2000 kgs and only internal fuel as per Vivek Ahuja's analysis. It is 275 km with one centreline tank.

WAC Bases

1. Adampur – Sialkot, Gujrat, Gujranwala, Nanka sahib and Lahore
2. Pathankot – Jhelum, Kharian, Hafizabad
3. Halwara – Lahore and just short of Bhawalnagar
4. Srinagar – Muzzafarabad, Islamabad, Rawalpindi, Naushera
5. Bhatinda – Bhawalnagar, Sahiwal, as south as Fort Abbas



Tejas with refuelling offers new possibilities. Take off with bigger load and low fuel, top up within India and execute a lo-lo-hi profile attack. That would give extended range. Mysteres have hit Sargodha in 1965

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 24 Mar 2016 13:22

deejay wrote:
Akshay Kapoor wrote:Bisons :

Ambala has one or two bison sqdns but Adampur does not.

Ambala is more than 200 km from IB so its better to base Tejas in Adampur.

Pathankot, Srinagar, Uttarlai, Bhuj, Jodhpur, Phalodi, Sirsa , Naliya have Bison Sqdns.

I have included them all except Jodhpur, Sirsa and Naliya in my analysis. Sirsa is a good alternative to Bhathinda as its just a tiny bit closer to Cholistan desert where our offensive will go through. Naliya is another good base for Tejas. Jodhpur is too far for a strike into Pak. I prefer Jaisalmer. Between Jaisalmer, Uttarlai, Phalodi, Bhuj and Naliya all of Rajastahn and Sindh can be covered to about a depth of 50-60 km atleast.

We can also stage from Bikaner/Nal. It was used in Op Parakram.

Our offensives will come in Rajasthan and Sindh and Paki offensive will probably be in the Chamb/Jammu area. We should look at basing Tejas out of Udhampur and Jammu too.

Mig 27s


Sir,

Srinagar, Awantipur, Nalia, Suratgarh and Jamnagar should be part of your initial analysis on the Western Front.

Udhampur has an adequate runway but is in a bowl of high hills and susceptible to weather clampdowns.



Deejay, I included Srinagar in the first analysis. I missed out Nalia and added it in the second analysis above. Jamnagar is too far away with a 200 km comabat radius. I looked at Avantipur (my first choice in J&K) but it seems its has just a FBSU now ? So I dropped it as I was looking at area coverage from existing airbases. How did I miss Suratgarh ??? Too much of a hangover :-)
Last edited by Akshay Kapoor on 24 Mar 2016 13:45, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 24 Mar 2016 13:24

shiv wrote:
Akshay Kapoor wrote:Using a google map tool to draw circles, I have done an analysis of Tejas Strike Ranges into Pak from WAC and SWAC airbases. Combat Radius is 200 km low low low with 2000 kgs and only internal fuel as per Vivek Ahuja's analysis. It is 275 km with one centreline tank.

WAC Bases

1. Adampur – Sialkot, Gujrat, Gujranwala, Nanka sahib and Lahore
2. Pathankot – Jhelum, Kharian, Hafizabad
3. Halwara – Lahore and just short of Bhawalnagar
4. Srinagar – Muzzafarabad, Islamabad, Rawalpindi, Naushera
5. Bhatinda – Bhawalnagar, Sahiwal, as south as Fort Abbas



Tejas with refuelling offers new possibilities. Take off with bigger load and low fuel, top up within India and execute a lo-lo-hi profile attack. That would give extended range. Mysteres have hit Sargodha in 1965


Sure but we have 6 refuellers and being of soviet vintage not all of them will be available. We can hit Sargodha out of Pathankot (275 km (centre line tank just about gets Sargodha). I was looking at most conservative scenarios in terms of range. Anything more is added flexibility and bonus.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby deejay » 24 Mar 2016 14:21

Akshay Kapoor wrote:...

Deejay, I included Srinagar in the first analysis. I missed out Nalia and added it in the second analysis above. Jamnagar is too far away with a 200 km comabat radius. I looked at Avantipur (my first choice in J&K) but it seems its has just a FBSU now ? So I dropped it as I was looking at area coverage from existing airbases. How did I miss Suratgarh ??? Too much of a hangover :-)


Sir, Avantipur is/ was an FBSU but even then these airfields are fully functional. There are a few airfields like these across the country which are full fledged fighter capable but are not equipped with own fighter sqns. Purnea is another example. Fighter sqns come here on extended detachments regularly.

Btw, I believe Avantipore has permanent units/ sqns based there now.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Kakarat » 24 Mar 2016 14:33

HAL on mission mode to ramp up Tejas production

"The energy levels are high and we are wasting no time in our efforts to step up the production rate. Now, SP-3 is all set to enter the equipping and final assembly and SP-4 is ready to go for coupling. All SP-5 components are already on the jig. And, some of the modules of SP-6 and SP-7 too are entering the jig," says Sridharan.

He is confident of loading the components of SP-8 also on to the jig within a month, thereby ensuring an early roll out of the fighters.

Our actions will speak now: Sridharan HAL says during the 2016-2017 period it would increase the production rate between 8-12 aircraft. When pointed out that HAL often missed its production deadlines, Sridharan was quick to add: "In the past we had issues. We have moved on and our actions will speak now."

Amidst the stepped-up activities on the production line, HAL has also started the work on the Tejas MK1A variant. Engineers at Aircraft Research and Design Centre have begun the conceptual design and development work.

By December 2018, the SOP (Standard of Preparation) is likely to be finalised. The Drawing Applicability List (DAL) will also be ready soon. (DAL is a key element of SOP). "We are planning to have four Tejas MKIAs ready by 2018/19 and these platforms will be with slight weight reduction. By June 2016, some concrete plans for Tejas MKIA will be ready," says an official. As per the current plans, by 2025 HAL must hand over 100 Tejas MKIAs to IAF.


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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby srai » 24 Mar 2016 14:55

^^^

Well done AKM. Finally, we have lots of details on the LCA production activities. Looks like there are 6 jigs currently.

HAL on mission mode to ramp up Tejas production
HAL on mission mode to ramp up Tejas production

Bengaluru, March 24: Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) is sparing no efforts to ensure that the series production at its LCA-Tejas Division in Bengaluru picks up momentum. Often at the receiving end for poor production schedules, HAL officials are now determined to plug the loopholes that dented their image.

During a facility visit to Tejas Division recently, OneIndia was witness to the shift in HAL's work philosophies. The state-of-the-art hangar was abuzz with activities. The jigs were getting loaded with plane parts. Majority of employees are now working from morning 7 am to 9 pm, which General Manager V Sridharan terms it as a 'voluntary effort.'


A team of young designers and engineers were seen working hand in hand with support staff at the shop floor to ensure that the Indian Air Force (IAF) got the required fighters to form the first Tejas Squadron in Bengaluru.

Components for SP-3 to SP-8 get on to the jigs

With SP-1 already doing routine test flights since September 2014 and SP-2 too now joining the duties, HAL hopes to ramp up the pace of Tejas production soon.

The necessity to wipe out the image as a 'laid-back-PSU,' has been increasingly felt after the T Suvarna Raju took over the reins of HAL. Raju is said to be playing a silent role backing youngsters who are eager to ring in a corporate culture in HAL.


"The energy levels are high and we are wasting no time in our efforts to step up the production rate. Now, SP-3 is all set to enter the equipping and final assembly and SP-4 is ready to go for coupling. All SP-5 components are already on the jig. And, some of the modules of SP-6 and SP-7 too are entering the jig," says Sridharan.

He is confident of loading the components of SP-8 also on to the jig within a month, thereby ensuring an early roll out of the fighters.


Our actions will speak now: Sridharan

HAL says during the 2016-2017 period it would increase the production rate between 8-12 aircraft. When pointed out that HAL often missed its production deadlines, Sridharan was quick to add: "In the past we had issues. We have moved on and our actions will speak now."

Amidst the stepped-up activities on the production line, HAL has also started the work on the Tejas MK1A variant. Engineers at Aircraft Research and Design Centre have begun the conceptual design and development work.


By December 2018, the SOP (Standard of Preparation) is likely to be finalised. The Drawing Applicability List (DAL) will also be ready soon. (DAL is a key element of SOP).

"We are planning to have four Tejas MKIAs ready by 2018/19 and these platforms will be with slight weight reduction. By June 2016, some concrete plans for Tejas MKIA will be ready," says an official. As per the current plans, by 2025 HAL must hand over 100 Tejas MKIAs to IAF.


Most modules getting outsourced

As part of HAL's ramping up production plans, the wing modules have already been outsourced now. Tenders have been already floated inviting private vendors for manufacturing central, rear and front fuselages.

"The fins, rudders and around 33 electrical panels have been outsourced. We want to become the prime integrator. We have already outsourced 52 LRUs," says an official.


The Tejas Division itself is on expansion mode with a state-of-the-art painting hangar already in. A separate hangar for assembly line is expected to be completed by June.


Tarmac upgradation process also has begun for supporting squadron operations. A new customer service block is coming up. A dedicated fuel slush hangar and rain water system check facility is also in.

"Capacity augmentation to double the production rate is our key mission now. There is already a proposal for additional production facility sent to MoD for approval," says an official.


Raju says young team will do wonders

HAL Chairman T Suvarna Raju says he has full faith in the young team headed by Sridharan.

"Tejas Division has been undertaking challenging missions and their role has increased now with more fighters being rolled out. It will become a nerve-center for many more missions in future. I have complete faith in their abilities," says Raju.

At a recent review meeting of Tejas programme chaired by Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar in Delhi, all stake-holders are said to have expressed their satisfaction over the progress of the project.

Parrikar's intervention and constant monitoring of the project is said to be having a positive bearing on the programme, especially in the last six months.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 24 Mar 2016 15:21

deejay wrote:
Akshay Kapoor wrote:...

Deejay, I included Srinagar in the first analysis. I missed out Nalia and added it in the second analysis above. Jamnagar is too far away with a 200 km comabat radius. I looked at Avantipur (my first choice in J&K) but it seems its has just a FBSU now ? So I dropped it as I was looking at area coverage from existing airbases. How did I miss Suratgarh ??? Too much of a hangover :-)


Sir, Avantipur is/ was an FBSU but even then these airfields are fully functional. There are a few airfields like these across the country which are full fledged fighter capable but are not equipped with own fighter sqns. Purnea is another example. Fighter sqns come here on extended detachments regularly.

Btw, I believe Avantipore has permanent units/ sqns based there now.


That gives us even more flexibility and if I remember correctly during Op Parakram there were a lot of sqdns operating from forward bases like Bikaner and Jaisalmer.

One question - as aircraft become more sophisticated the logistics needed to move a sqdn to forward airfield must be more. The no of MT you would need for ground staff, technicians,munitions, POL, spares etc would be much more for a Tejas Sqdn rather than a MIG 21 sqdn. And far more for a SU 30 MKI sqdn. Is that correct ? What kind of infrastructure exists at places like Avantipur and Jaisalmer ?

What about aircraft underground pens, AD cover ?

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Singha » 24 Mar 2016 15:38

twin engined planes probably need twice the number of spare engines and ground staff to do minor repairs, test repaired engines and swap engines. I do not think any of our fwd bases would have the kind of extra space, infra , shelters needed for such guests except perhaps jodhpur.

imo the whole concept of fwd base is subject to revision. the endurance of planes have vastly increased from Mig21 days and putting your crown jewels within range of SRBM is probably not worth it. FABs could however be used to recover damaged a.c quickly

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 24 Mar 2016 15:49

Singha, I presume crown jewels means SU 30s ? My analysis was on the Tejas . It has to be based at these bases just like the Bison is as explained earlier. In fact bases like Adampur (Mig 29s), Pathankot, Hawlara, Bhisiana, Bhuj etc are forward by geography but fully functional and can host SU30s. Jaisalmer I don't know about. Jodhpur has a lot of infra and hosts a 3/4 sqdns including a SU 30 sqdn. Bhisiana has a SU 30 Sqdn too.


The only real in depth bases we have are Gawalior, Bareilly and Pune which hosts Mirages and Su 30s. Most of our bases are close to the IB. And nothing wrong with that. My only quetsion is AD cover and adequate underground pens. But all of these are fully functioning bases so must have all of this.

Deejay any idea about the facilities at Suratgarh ?

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby deejay » 24 Mar 2016 16:29

Sir,

Fighter Sqns regularly go on long detachments. Its a well practiced drill. Aircraft can fly in a day to their location. Moving men and material takes time and it won't be done in a couple of days.

Armament positioning and safe keeping is another major challenge.

Awantipore with Tejas is great if nearby Srinagar has Tajas too in terms of engineering support.

Aircraft shelters - There is a shortfall in infrastructure across IAF airfields and maybe even Awantipur may lack enough of these. It is something we have to build and are in plans.

Suratgarh, has had fighter sqns and attack choppers for a long time and as such should be well equipped. Personally, I only made one short transit visit to this base.

Jaisalmer has a fantastic infrastructure for the aircraft at least.

Singha ji, consumables will be greater in case of twin engines hence greater spare support. Otherwise manpower requirements shouldn't vary by much for twin engined aircraft all other things being the same. However, just arming up a Su 30 will take many more man hours than arming a Bison.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 24 Mar 2016 16:45

Thank you Deejay,

How about AD at these bases ? Old Pechoras on all bases ?

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby soumik » 24 Mar 2016 16:48

Akshay Kapoor wrote:Using a google map tool to draw circles, I have done an analysis of Tejas Strike Ranges into Pak from WAC and SWAC airbases. Combat Radius is 200 km low low low with 2000 kgs and only internal fuel as per Vivek Ahuja's analysis. It is 275 km with one centreline tank.

WAC Bases

1. Adampur – Sialkot, Gujrat, Gujranwala, Nanka sahib and Lahore
2. Pathankot – Jhelum, Kharian, Hafizabad
3. Halwara – Lahore and just short of Bhawalnagar
4. Srinagar – Muzzafarabad, Islamabad, Rawalpindi, Naushera
5. Bhatinda – Bhawalnagar, Sahiwal, as south as Fort Abbas

Staging ops from Amristsar and Udhampur would give even more coverage. But I don't know if the airbases are equipped for fighter ops.

SWAC Bases

1. Phalodi – Can not hit deep in Pak but can hit an enemy offensive into Rajashthan giving coverage to Jaisalmer/Longewla, Bikaner
2. Uttarlai – Islamkot, Umarkot and can give coverage to Southern Rajshthan
3. Bhuj – Can hot upto 75 km in Sindh – Badin
4. Jaisalmer – does not have fighter squadrons now but has in the past – Rahimyar Khan, Sadiqbad etc.

With a 200 km combat radius Tejas can can fully support offensive into North and Central Pakjab (line North of Fort Abbas). With a centreline fuel tank and 275 k radius it can also support offensives into South Pakjab and Sindh.

In Air defence role with a 300 -350 km combat radius it can protect the entire IB in overlapping circles. Obviously Tejas will not be based at every airbase but the point I am making is that it can do the job it is meant for.

I would base Tejas in Srinagar, Pathankot, Adampur, Jaisalmer, Bhatinda, Bhuj and Uttarlai.

Is this the tool you used?I use the same quite often!
https://www.freemaptools.com/radius-around-point.htm
Add to that the very high possibility of three S400 units making their way to bases around Bhuj, Bikaner and Jammu and the Tejas has big brother keeping the PAF away from the entire region east of the Indus. A S400 battery based at Jammu will be able to cover all of Pakistani airspace upto Peshawar, while negating PAF capabilities at Islamabad, Rawalpindi and Sargodha.A Unit at Bhuj will cover the entire the entire Airspace of Karachi and Hyderabad, a third unit Placed close to Bikaner can cover everything in between that's east of the Indus.
Tejas will have a field day hunting armor & infrastructure down in the entire region.


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