LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Sid » 08 Oct 2016 02:23

indranilroy wrote:
ShauryaT wrote:
1. Tandem carriage already tested. All I would love to see now is multi-racks for BVR missiles.


By tandem carriage we mean this, yes?
http://lh3.ggpht.com/-qKtynYtR_6k/UbhdP ... t-2013.jpg

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby suryag » 08 Oct 2016 02:58

It blew my mind i mean a plane should be really good for someone to take off without having flown on a simulator. Wonderful news on the tandem pylons too(he said 4000lbs were dropped) wish the DefMin puts in an order of 200 MK1A to be produced in 10 years starting 2019

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby disha » 08 Oct 2016 03:21

SaiK wrote:disha, I would not consider nook role for LCA /period. Put those as requirements for AMCA


Sai'ji., you twisted my message. I was basically saying - no point in considering LCA in nook role.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby hanumadu » 08 Oct 2016 03:38

suryag wrote:It blew my mind i mean a plane should be really good for someone to take off without having flown on a simulator. Wonderful news on the tandem pylons too(he said 4000lbs were dropped) wish the DefMin puts in an order of 200 MK1A to be produced in 10 years starting 2019


By what I understand, ACM Arup Raha decided half way through the runway that he is going to take off and his co pilot trusted him? 8)
OK, they were at the line up point.

We do not know if he did not fly a simulator before.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Zynda » 08 Oct 2016 04:01

JayS wrote:Also I found it funny how ADA guys call AMCA "Aamka". I never knew this one. :D

Any person associated with HAL/NAL/ADA refer AMCA as "Aamka"...

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Kartik » 08 Oct 2016 04:41

So glad to see that video!

I was just hoping that Cmde Balaji would tell us the actual empty weight of the airplane and once and for all silence those who call it underpowered or overweight. But he did mention that ADA hasn't done a good job of countering the claims that the Tejas is underpowered- so we know that this who overweight/underpowered business was not completely true.

But the example of the Tejas twin seater (which should be slightly heavier than the single seater in empty weight, need to check that) being able to take off in less than expected distance with 2 pilots, 2 X 1000 lbs bombs and 2 X 1200 ltr fuel tanks plus its standard dummy R-73 rounds from the hot and high Leh airfield does give us a data point.

I hope that Aero India 2017 will see more exact details come out in this regard. I won't be able to attend it though..:(

and 90% composites by surface area will mean that an already tiny aircraft will have at least a somewhat reduced RCS. Will already be hard to spot in the air either visually. As the Tejas exercises with other fighters in the IAF, more details will hopefully emerge.

Also happy to hear about the tandem bombs having been tested - obviously a new pylon was developed and this will mean that upto 4 X 500 lbs or Spice 250 like bombs could be carried on the inboard pylons and 4 other pylons would be free to carry drop tanks or air to air missiles. And now since Swing Role capability is also confirmed, we must now tout it each time we mention the Tejas- just the way the French called the Rafale 'Omni Role'.

Pleased to hear Dr Girish Deodhare talk about the optimization that is being done right now with regard to the max G and angle of attack. So it is about flight testing and pushing it to its existing limits and then changing the FCS code and then re-validating that and eventually getting to the point where squadron pilots (not test pilots) can push the Tejas to its limits without worrying about departure from controlled flight (carefree handling)

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Jayram » 08 Oct 2016 05:23

Fantastic video. One thing is for sure ..the future is bright for India with such luminaries driving the show.. however we need to replicate the model in other areas most notably Kaveri and maybe even Arjun and many others. Hopefully already happening.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby vina » 08 Oct 2016 07:19

Kartik wrote:So glad to see that video!

I was just hoping that Cmde Balaji would tell us the actual empty weight of the airplane and once and for all silence those who call it underpowered or overweight. But he did mention that ADA hasn't done a good job of countering the claims that the Tejas is underpowered- so we know that this who overweight/underpowered business was not completely true.

But the example of the Tejas twin seater (which should be slightly heavier than the single seater in empty weight, need to check that) being able to take off in less than expected distance with 2 pilots, 2 X 1000 lbs bombs and 2 X 1200 ltr fuel tanks plus its standard dummy R-73 rounds from the hot and high Leh airfield does give us a data point.


Yes. I had recorded the show last night and watched it this morning. This kind of validates what I have always been maintaining all along.

1. The Tejas will be able to outclimb and out turn the Gripen. How ? One, it has a higher wing area (ie, lighter wing loading and higher excess lift) . Now with Dr. Grish Deodhar's firm assertion that the Tejas is the most unstable aircraft flying out there today, it will definitely out turn the Gripen.

2. The Tejas is LIGHTER than an equally configured gripen and has an engine with a higher thrust (the IN 20). So it can power through turns and without a problem

3. The Gripen will probably have an edge in top speed and straight line acceleration because of it's smaller wing area and wing design.

Safe to ignore he semi literate ranting of the random Natashas and shills on this and that. This is a great plane.

Notice all this talk about a paper plane called Gripen NG. I am not sure why and how. Wait for the Navy version of MK2 to make it's first flight and this talk of NG etc will die immediately.

. And now since Swing Role capability is also confirmed, we must now tout it each time we mention the Tejas- just the way the French called the Rafale 'Omni Role'.

And they have also demonstrated hot refueling . So there is NOTHING that the Gripen can do even in terms of talking points against the Tejas. Plus with Gripen, you will have to buy an entirely new armaments inventory. Nothing from the current IAF lineup will work on it!

Pleased to hear Dr Girish Deodhare talk about the optimization that is being done right now with regard to the max G and angle of attack. So it is about flight testing and pushing it to its existing limits and then changing the FCS code and then re-validating that and eventually getting to the point where squadron pilots (not test pilots) can push the Tejas to its limits without worrying about departure from controlled flight (carefree handling)

Soon you will see the specs upgraded from 8g to 9g. This is a full 9G platform. It is still G limited by the FCS. When the final FCS versions are out and certified you will see the 9G on the spec display boards.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby SaiK » 08 Oct 2016 08:13

doh! not when seeker coupta says: "if it is standing (hanging) it is not stealth"! huh. :lol:

even stealth a/c can carry stealthy pylons

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Indranil » 08 Oct 2016 10:16

Sid wrote:
indranilroy wrote:


By tandem carriage we mean this, yes?
http://lh3.ggpht.com/-qKtynYtR_6k/UbhdP ... t-2013.jpg

Yes.

Kartik wrote:Also happy to hear about the tandem bombs having been tested - obviously a new pylon was developed and this will mean that upto 4 X 500 lbs or Spice 250 like bombs could be carried on the inboard pylons and 4 other pylons would be free to carry drop tanks or air to air missiles.

If the inboard pylons are used up for the tandem carriage (of 1000 lb bombs) or quad-racks (for Spice 250/SAAW like bombs), then the center pylon is only the plumbed station left for carrying drop tanks. It might be interesting to see if Mk1A/Mk2 will have the midboard station plumbed for carrying 800 ltr tanks. It was part of the original plan.
Image

My wish list for added flexibility is:
1. Twin racks for two laser guided 500 lb bombs on the midboard and centerline hardpoints.
Image
2. Twin racks for two BVRs on midboard pylon
3. Hybrid pylon to carry 800 ltr fuel tank and 1 BVR on the inboard pylon
4. Hybrid pylon to carry 1 LGB and 1 BVR on the midboard pylon.
5. Hybrid pylon for carrying SPJ + LGB or SPJ + BVR missile.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Dileep » 08 Oct 2016 10:20

Bhaskar_T wrote:2. Is the Radome painted differently than rest of the aircraft for better range OR may be the painting of Radome is matched later to the rest of the body paint of the aircraft ? (My understanding is that better range from radar is 95% due to the involved radar-technology, Radome metallurgy and not due to painting).

I have seen this plane up close the day before it flew. It was ready to fly then, waiting for some clearance. Some 20 people were standing around, waiting to lead it out from the hangar, and chief test pilot Air Commodore Muthanna was sitting behind a makeshift desk.

The reason for different color is that the composite 'body' is pre-painted when it is delivered by the subcontrator (L&T I think), and months of grease, finger print, grime, sweat and blood gets accumulated on the surface, as the operators wiggle themselves around, trying to put stuff in, making it even darker. This is an incredibly small frame with incredibly complex innards, so you should be a yoga adept to put your hands and head into the gaps and work inside. Then the radome that is made at a totally different time at a totally different place gets mounted last. Obviously, the colors are different.

The skin of the LSPs are in a really dirty state, after all the 'put something in - take something out' operations over long periods. They never re-paint the body apparently. Why waste time and add weight?

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Philip » 08 Oct 2016 12:40

Happy BDay IAF! It was good to see the Tejas showing off at the end of the flypast/aerial display.MKI's climb rate still evokes awe.
HAL should outsource Tejas production to another pvt. entity for a second line along with key components.The rate of 8/yr is simply unacceptable.if we are to get only 120 aircraft even with a push after a decade,the obsolescence factor will have set in Production has to rise to 24/yr at least from two units combined,one a month,to more later on.200+ Tejas at between $30-35M an aircraft will allow us to buy/build more FGFA,Rafales,whatever.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Indranil » 08 Oct 2016 12:51

Dileep wrote:The skin of the LSPs are in a really dirty state, after all the 'put something in - take something out' operations over long periods. They never re-paint the body apparently. Why waste time and add weight?

This is true of most operational planes. None of them are "cleaned" unless they are being put up for display.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Bhaskar_T » 08 Oct 2016 13:43

This is where I find not so good clarity. Is it that intent for 120 fighters has been expressed or a firm contractual order (including all finances, agreement, money) has been placed by IAF? (I understand that for 20MK1 IOC, 20MK1 FOC - a firm order has been placed).

IAF upgrading security apparatus at all bases: ACM Arup Raha
Anantha Krishnan,

http://english.mathrubhumi.com/news/india/iaf-upgrading-security-apparatus-at-all-bases-acm-arup-raha-indian-air-force-air-force-parade-hindon-1.1413167

“We have placed an order for 120 Tejas. The induction of Light Combat Helicopter (LCH), Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) system, Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) system, Hindustan Turbo Trainer (HTT-40) are also being planned,” the IAF Chief said.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Bhaskar_T » 08 Oct 2016 13:51

Great to hear that Tejas started the party. I think it also hints IAF's beginning to like the aircraft.

✈Anantha Krishnan M ✈ ‏@writetake 3h3 hours ago - And, #Tejas begins the sky-party in Hindon. #IAFDay

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby asinh » 08 Oct 2016 22:18

Just read a tweet saying IAF has requested some western manufacturers for single engine fighter aircraft. Surely such a need requires some elucidation?

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby asinh » 08 Oct 2016 22:20

http://wap.business-standard.com/articl ... 638_1.html. This is the link. Sorry if its already been posted elsewhere.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Marten » 08 Oct 2016 23:21

Anything that Shukla posts would represent the interests of some lobby or the other. Better to wait until MoD gives a go ahead. A trial balloon to see how folks react. In my opinion, that window must be closed right away before this farce continues. We're unwilling to invest in expanding aviation supply chains in India but will consider funding 10 different lines in other countries tries on the pretext of Assemble in India.

If Tejas divn needs to be hired off from HAL, so be it. Do what it takes for Ada to deliver on Mk2. And for HAL to deliver 1A. But in my opinion, by going for another MRCA jamboree, we're attempting to shutter our ability to develop fixed wing aircraft.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Gyan » 09 Oct 2016 00:31

We should offer US$ 50 Billion for 200 + 50 LCA MK-2 (including maintenance support for 30 years) for IAF and Navy and let the Pvt Sector bid by decreasing the amont.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Gagan » 09 Oct 2016 00:42

asinh wrote:Just read a tweet saying IAF has requested some western manufacturers for single engine fighter aircraft. Surely such a need requires some elucidation?

Asinh
The IAF chief stated about 4 days ago that there are "Unsolicited" offers from manufacturers of F-16, FA-18, and JAS Grippen.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Kartik » 09 Oct 2016 06:18

And the Tejas stole the show at Air Force Day celebrations ! :D

Tejas stands out at Air Force day parade

The hero of the show remained the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft Tejas, which made its debut at the Air Force Day after being inducted into the IAF in July.


Of the two Tejas fighters inducted, one was placed in the centre of the parade ground, while the other took to the sky flown by Group Captain Madhav Rangachari.

A steep pull right after the takeoff demonstrated the aircraft's ability to climb rapidly to desired altitude, with the aircraft standing vertical in air to the awe of the spectators.

The pilot then performed a loop, took a fast turn at a rate of approximately 20 degrees per second, and took turn at a speed as low as 160 knots.
..

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby rohiths » 09 Oct 2016 06:56

Gagan wrote:
asinh wrote:Just read a tweet saying IAF has requested some western manufacturers for single engine fighter aircraft. Surely such a need requires some elucidation?

Asinh
The IAF chief stated about 4 days ago that there are "Unsolicited" offers from manufacturers of F-16, FA-18, and JAS Grippen.

The air force or the powers to be are trying it's best to get F16. They will ensure Grippen is in play to ensure there are atleast 2 bids to prevent allegations of corruption. However the F16 will be inducted and the Tejas will be killed and the Indian armed forces will be in the firm grip of USA. In earlier times the incompetence of the govt would have saved us as it would take 10 years between RFI and induction and Tejas would have been produced in significant numbers but with this govt they may end up pulling this stuff quickly.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby arsimovich » 09 Oct 2016 08:13

asinh wrote:http://wap.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/iaf-kicks-off-contest-to-make-single-engine-fighters-in-india-116100800638_1.html. This is the link. Sorry if its already been posted elsewhere.

I might be making a super noob observation but Shukla seems to be wildly speculative in saying that US will offer F 35 as India may have negative "sentiment" around F 16. I don't believe the US has any intention of offering the F 35 to anyone outside the NATO block. And notwithstanding all other arguments, it is highly improbable that India would be inducting F 35 as replacement for MiG 21. Methinks, Shukla is on thin ice here.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Gagan » 09 Oct 2016 08:46

Shooklaw seems to maybe, perhaps doing the type of journalism that he's doing on someone's instructions.
It is possible he is being fed reports to drop hints and to test the waters that way.
Shiv Aroor seems to be jetsetting to see the Gripen launch, and now is in DC.
So the def journalists are being given sound bytes by the def manufacturers.
Rohits I have a suspicion u might be right.
But if true, this will be a deal that the new POTUS & GOTUS will have to earn from GoI

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby sudeepj » 09 Oct 2016 08:49

Wont LCA MK2 be a better choice than an F16? We do need 4/4.5 gen planes to counter the J10s and the Su27 clones. An F16 Block 70 will provide a definitive edge against these planes and the MK2 will likely hold its own too, the question is, will an MK2 will put the Indian aero complex on firmer footing?

I think, with the MK1 and the MK1A have placed the Indian aero complex on a very good footing as far as structures, control laws and electronics go. What is missing is the engine and the MK2 by itself wont fix that problem.

Unless the new line brings the engine, its probably not worth it. On the other hand, if the new line does bring the engine, the MK2 itself will be on a much firmer footing and will be the final piece of the jigsaw.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby ashbhee » 09 Oct 2016 09:14

If they setup a F16 or Griphen asmbly line here won't that dampen Tejas's future with IAF?

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby GShankar » 09 Oct 2016 09:21

Just to add a contrary note:

So many (almost all in brf) were happy about 'surgical' strikes.

And if we need to be ready for all such future missions, we need to equip ourselves properly. The govt. we (atleast some) 'trust', may have to do certain things that we may not like. In the larger scheme of things, may be this needs to be done if that be the case.

For 'some' qualified and/or unqualified reasons we MAY have to purchase a newer aircraft. However, it may all be just rumours. Let's wait for a while.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Sid » 09 Oct 2016 11:29

Click to view complete active inventory of IAF. Image courtesy Prasar Bharati
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CuO9deDWYAA ... name=large

Out of this Su is the current backbone of IAF. Rafael, Mig 29, & Mirage are limited in numbers so some strange known reason.

After Su, LCA will be the next fighter to be added in numbers. But to augment that with another fighter is completely asinine.

We must look back at Su 30 program and see that it took us more then 18 yrs to induct 200+ aircrafts while we want LCA to be produced at 20 per year.

Jeez what's the hurry, we got nukes!!!

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby jamwal » 09 Oct 2016 11:43

Image

Is this full vertical climb ?

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby shiv » 09 Oct 2016 11:54

ashbhee wrote:If they setup a F16 or Griphen asmbly line here won't that dampen Tejas's future with IAF?

Easy to give a smart aleck answer but I don't mean this is a nasty/facetious sense

Did the setting up of production lines for Toyota and other motor vehicles in India dampen Maruti's future? Provided there is enough demand, and the price is right it may not happen.

Let me do some math
45 squadrons = 45 x 16 = 720 aircraft
33 squadrons = 33 x 16 = 528 aircraft
Retire 200 MiG 21s and you get 528-200 = 328 aircraft

328 + 100 tejas + 36 Rafale = 464 aircraft.
We will still be 200 aircraft short

We will not have 100 tejas before 2021
We will not have 36 Rafale before 2021
We will retire MiG 21 by 2021

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Kakarat » 09 Oct 2016 12:45

Sid wrote:Click to view complete active inventory of IAF. Image courtesy Prasar Bharati
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CuO9deDWYAA ... name=large


LCA Tejas & ALH are missing

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby JayS » 09 Oct 2016 12:46

shiv wrote:Easy to give a smart aleck answer but I don't mean this is a nasty/facetious sense

Did the setting up of production lines for Toyota and other motor vehicles in India dampen Maruti's future? Provided there is enough demand, and the price is right it may not happen.

Let me do some math
45 squadrons = 45 x 16 = 720 aircraft
33 squadrons = 33 x 16 = 528 aircraft
Retire 200 MiG 21s and you get 528-200 = 328 aircraft

328 + 100 tejas + 36 Rafale = 464 aircraft.
We will still be 200 aircraft short

We will not have 100 tejas before 2021
We will not have 36 Rafale before 2021
We will retire MiG 21 by 2021


Come on Shiv, example of Toyota is so irrelevant here. Do we have requirement of thousands of aircrafts that every MNC in the world will find a place in the market??

Also this new single engine aircraft will not be coming before 2021 in India, if we go by the tendering and price negotiation procedures we typically have. Then why not just boost the Mk1A production to 24/yr by allowing HAL to bump up production to 16/yr and starting another line in pvt sector for 8/yr?? Let the pvt sector handle any export order and go beyond 8/yr if they can. We still have 4-5 yrs. Its doable given IAF/GOI extend the same curtsey that they do to foreign companies and sign contact with firm number with HAL and put money on the table right away.

We could have 300 Tejas instead of 120 in same number of years. There would be hardly much opportunity cost in terms of number of years in getting required 300 total nos, plus we will maintain commonality and instead of the zoo of an aircrafts we have in IAF we will have only 3-4 types of airctafts in our inventory by 2030. And the biggest advantage will be we will have a MIC ready to take up AMCA production after that. And guess what it would cost a whole lot less money too.

We could wait 15yrs yrs for Rafale saying no plan B and finally bought only 36, But we cannot commit fully for our own desi jet and take 2-3yrs of opportunity cost as a hit for so many possible strategic gains??

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Zynda » 09 Oct 2016 13:17

^^ +100. In my view, ADA should continue to develop Tejas in to variants beyond Mk.1A.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby saumitra_j » 09 Oct 2016 13:28

Given our current industrial strength, have we explored if another line for Tejas is practically possible at all? It is all very well to say that we have a second line for Tejas, increase the numbers to 200 et al ...but do we have the industrial eco system for that? The other question is if we were to take the F 16/18/Gripen/what ever, will the eco system required for producing them in numbers be taken care of purely through imports? I can possibly understand why Tejas can't be produced in numbers because of lack capacity but how making the F-teens in India suddenly solve this problem?? Or are they talking purely in terms of imports for this new tender? Or is their some "strategic" angle that we do not fully understand?

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby williams » 09 Oct 2016 13:48

You need to build the same industrial eco system if you ask Lockheed to setup shop here. I think if you put money on the table, HAL can setup more assembly lines. That will happen faster than trying to get a foreign company to setup shop. Question is what other critical technologies can f16/Gripen/18 is bringing to the table. Will they ask GE to manufacture engines here? Can they setup flow-to-takt manufacturing system that they use for F35 in here? These are important questions. If they are bringing in these new manufacturing technologies, then I think it is a good investment.

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Bhaskar_T » 09 Oct 2016 14:10

Shiv - Good maths which suggests we will be short of 200 aircraft. JayS proposed 200 more Tejas orders rather than another fighter built up locally but I think we are missing PAKFA. So, these 200 shortfall can be divided into 100 Tejas Mk1A/MK2 + 100 PAKFA. (While typing this, I am wondering where does AMCA go :(( )

PS - I am truly an arm-chair general :lol: . Apologies in advance.

shiv wrote:
ashbhee wrote:If they setup a F16 or Griphen asmbly line here won't that dampen Tejas's future with IAF?

Easy to give a smart aleck answer but I don't mean this is a nasty/facetious sense

Did the setting up of production lines for Toyota and other motor vehicles in India dampen Maruti's future? Provided there is enough demand, and the price is right it may not happen.

Let me do some math
45 squadrons = 45 x 16 = 720 aircraft
33 squadrons = 33 x 16 = 528 aircraft
Retire 200 MiG 21s and you get 528-200 = 328 aircraft

328 + 100 tejas + 36 Rafale = 464 aircraft.
We will still be 200 aircraft short

We will not have 100 tejas before 2021
We will not have 36 Rafale before 2021
We will retire MiG 21 by 2021

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby chiru » 09 Oct 2016 14:16

JayS wrote:Also I found it funny how ADA guys call AMCA "Aamka". I never knew this one. :D

Saar ADA itself is pronounced -adaa. :-?

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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby sankum » 09 Oct 2016 14:24

By 2032 the following squadrons will be in service in IAF.

14sq Su30+ 2sq Mirage+ 4sq Jaguar+ 2sq Rafale+ 6sq LCA mk1 =28sq

There will still be a shortfall of 14sq for 42sq sanctioned force which can be made up by

Plan A= 2sq su30 (40nos)+ 4sq Rafale (80nos)+ 4sq LCA mk2(80nos)+ 4sq FGFA (80nos)=14sq(280nos)

Plan B= 6sq Gripen (120nos) + 4sq Rafale (80nos)+ 4sq FGFA (80nos)=14sq(280nos)

Plan C= 6sq Gripen (120nos) + 4sq LCA mk2 (80nos)+ 4sq FGFA (80nos)=14sq(280nos)

Rafale produced in 2022-32 @8/year for 80nos in make in India after delivery of 36nos.

Gripen produced in 2020-30 @12/year for 120 nos in make in India after Su 30 production is closed in 2020 after 272nos.

FGFA produced after 2025 @12/year.

My choice is plan A while it seems IAF in gung ho on Plan B seeing the interest by ACM for Gripen as second choice after Rafale.
Last edited by sankum on 09 Oct 2016 14:28, edited 1 time in total.

Indranil
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby Indranil » 09 Oct 2016 14:28

saumitra_j wrote:Given our current industrial strength, have we explored if another line for Tejas is practically possible at all? It is all very well to say that we have a second line for Tejas, increase the numbers to 200 et al ...but do we have the industrial eco system for that? The other question is if we were to take the F 16/18/Gripen/what ever, will the eco system required for producing them in numbers be taken care of purely through imports? I can possibly understand why Tejas can't be produced in numbers because of lack capacity but how making the F-teens in India suddenly solve this problem?? Or are they talking purely in terms of imports for this new tender? Or is their some "strategic" angle that we do not fully understand?

Only one of the two conditions can be true.
1. An ecosystem can be developed within India. If this is true, it can be done for the LCA as easily or with as much difficulty as an imported fighter.
2. An ecosystem cannot be developed within India. If this is true, we are back to screwdrivergiri.

The truth is 1. is true and necessary. But, it needs expenditure. The real question is will we as a nation throw away our bean counting mentality and pay the upfront cost of this necessary development.

shiv
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Re: LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

Postby shiv » 09 Oct 2016 14:41

JayS wrote: Do we have requirement of thousands of aircrafts that every MNC in the world will find a place in the market??

We (IAF alone) need 200 plus in the next five years or at most a decade. I would start with that figure and not worry about thousands. Cars are made in hundreds of thousands or millions. Most fighters are made in 100s - a few hit thousands

JayS wrote:We could have 300 Tejas instead of 120 in same number of years.

I presume you saw the video interview with the HAL MD who stated that in one year HAL can ramp up production to 8 aircraft a year and a year after that they can go 16 aircraft a year. The MD of HAL stated that they cannot ramp it up any higher.

If we take his word and assume that all goes well we will have
9 Tejas by 2019
25 by 2020
41 by 2021
57 by 2022

By then we would have our Air Force depleted by 12 MiG 21 squadrons leaving a 140 aircraft net depletion
By adding Rafales we still have a net depletion of 100+ aircraft below what we have today, let alone a future requirement of 45 squadrons


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