Pathankot AFB terrorist Attack After Action Analysis-I

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Re: Pathankot AFB terrorist Attack After Action Analysis-I

Postby chetak » 19 Jan 2016 04:06

ramana wrote:chetak, Great catch. So what type of rounds were found: 51 mm or 40 mm. Former would be the 2" mortar round. I got the impression mortar recoil is horrendous.

Could be a jugad to fire 40mm grenades from an AK-47.

Also the two later terrorists were supposed to have melted as the explosives cooked off. Would their weapons survive that process?


saar, there is understandable suspicion all around. Direct questions will immediately dry up sources. I have put some feelers out. very few photos seemed to have escaped the clampdown.

I got the impression that more than six weapons were carried by them.

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Re: Pathankot AFB terrorist Attack After Action Analysis-I

Postby ramana » 19 Jan 2016 05:38

Looks like Dera Ismail Khan jugaad to AK-47.

Will see what we can find on modifications to AK-47 for UBGL fixes.

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Re: Pathankot AFB terrorist Attack After Action Analysis-I

Postby ramana » 19 Jan 2016 05:51

Chetak, Found it.

Its GP-30 series UBGL from the Russians. A version was used in Afghanistan. So could be a copy or original from that vintage.

Oddly wiki says India has it. So tight lips because it could be stolen from India?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GP-25

or see this:

http://www.arsenal-bg.com/defense_police/UBGL.htm

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Re: Pathankot AFB terrorist Attack After Action Analysis-I

Postby UlanBatori » 19 Jan 2016 06:55

So the whole operation was using Indian smuggler channels, corrupt polis, corrupt fellow(s) on base who turned the floodlights upward where they came across the fence... weapons stolen from India?

Best proof of top-level ISI/PA planning. Only someone at that level would have info on all these things. I am surprised they didn't come in first class on the Samjhauta Express to prove it was yindoo terrists. But man! sending 6 ppl to their deaths, just like that!

There must be a whole forest of lamposts in Houristan set up to hang all the "handlers" of the Paki terrists and the ISIS soosai-vest wearers. By the golas.

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Re: Pathankot AFB terrorist Attack After Action Analysis-I

Postby Sid » 19 Jan 2016 08:45

It is GP-25, not GP-30. GP-30 has sighting on the right on UBGL. That UBGL was standard for AK 47 series. If they had used American M203 UBGL then we could have called it a jugaad.

And it was intended to be used in mortar role, check out the diagram below.

Only jugaad seems to be that muzzle break, it's not a silencer.

http://sovposters.ru//2009/12/21/063701_gp25.jpg

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Re: Pathankot AFB terrorist Attack After Action Analysis-I

Postby ramana » 19 Jan 2016 09:22

Sid

Thanks. So GP-25 and used at an angle to give some mortar like quality. Was this new in India ?

Why were they surprised initially?

One of dead piglets pictures there is ammo on left side.

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Re: Pathankot AFB terrorist Attack After Action Analysis-I

Postby Sid » 19 Jan 2016 09:57

Noi idea sir ji. IA regularly come across this weapon, see below for eg. Not sure how this can confuse them.

Unless this pic shared by chetak ji is not from the op. Also in the pic where piglet was shown, his weapon's front section was blurred out hence cannot corroborate actual weapon type.

Image

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Re: Pathankot AFB terrorist Attack After Action Analysis-I

Postby Aditya G » 19 Jan 2016 18:30

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 633941.cms

Kozhikode: National Investigation Agency (NIA) that is probing the terrorist attack at Pathankot has taken into custody a Malayali hailing from Wayanad district. According to sources, Dineshan, alias Riyaz Rasheed, son of Ramachandran, Pilakkavu, Mananthavady, was picked up from a lodge at Musafar near Pathankot....


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Re: Pathankot AFB terrorist Attack After Action Analysis-I

Postby ArmenT » 19 Jan 2016 20:06

ramana wrote:Sid

Thanks. So GP-25 and used at an angle to give some mortar like quality. Was this new in India ?

Umm, the only use of a grenade launcher is to lob grenades. It was being used exactly as it was designed for, no jugaad here. They are normally shot at an angle, so that the grenade flies over and behind an obstacle, that is the standard use-case.

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Re: Pathankot AFB terrorist Attack After Action Analysis-I

Postby ArmenT » 19 Jan 2016 20:14

By the way, has anyone else noticed the inscribed rectangles decorations in the handguards of the AKs in the previous page. I wonder what the deal is with that, as all of them seem to have it. Signature of some Paki gunsmith perhaps?

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Re: Pathankot AFB terrorist Attack After Action Analysis-I

Postby ramana » 19 Jan 2016 21:48

chetak and sid, Most likely the 'sources' who informed the press didn't know about the GP-25 and claimed 2" mortar etc.

Again shows the need to have one spokesperson after such ops and clamp down an all leakers with ego problems.

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Re: Pathankot AFB terrorist Attack After Action Analysis-I

Postby ramana » 20 Jan 2016 05:04

UlanBatori wrote:So the whole operation was using Indian smuggler channels, corrupt polis, corrupt fellow(s) on base who turned the floodlights upward where they came across the fence... weapons stolen from India?

Best proof of top-level ISI/PA planning. Only someone at that level would have info on all these things. I am surprised they didn't come in first class on the Samjhauta Express to prove it was yindoo terrists.
But man! sending 6 ppl to their deaths, just like that!

There must be a whole forest of lamposts in Houristan set up to hang all the "handlers" of the Paki terrists and the ISIS soosai-vest wearers. By the golas.


UB Looks like even two of the terrorists were also insiders!!!!

Economic Times:


Two fo the six attackers may be insiders says NIA

NEW DELHI: Two of the six terrorists killed by security forces at the Pathankot airbase could have been "insiders", top officials of the National Investigation Agency (NIA) told ET. These officials did not want to be identified.

The forensic report due next week, examination of call logs of phones recovered from the attack sites in the airbase and a close scrutiny of personnel at the air force station will help determine the identity of the "insiders", NIA officials said.
Government statements after the January 2-3 terrorist strike on the Pathankot airbase had mentioned six intruders, but only four of them were identified as having been outsiders who crossed the Punjab border with Pakistan.

NIA officials said the possibility that two of those killed by security forces could be insiders is strengthened by the recovery of only four AK-47 guns. The black corner notice to be issued by Interpol is also against only four suspects killed by Indian forces.


NIA officials said that to establish the identity of the two insiders they were looking at all personnel present at the airbase, as well as locals. There were around 3,500 people, including family members of those employed, at the Pathankot airbase during the attack.

Close scrutiny is on to identify the two people who may not be JEM terrorists. Clearer answers will be available after the agency receives the forensic report next week. The Central Forensic Science Laboratory is preparing the forensic report. NIA officials said the report will also help nail the exact number of attackers. NIA Director-General Sharad Kumar told ET, "So far, we have recovered only four weapons and forensic reports of samples are awaited."

SAMPLES FROM DEBRIS NIA has collected these samples from the debris of the airbase building that was blasted to kill two suspected terrorists. The agency also established that the four militants entered the airbase on the morning of January 1 by scaling the 11 feet wall and cutting the concertina wire. Investigators say the JEM terrorists had booby-trapped the part of the airbase they were hiding in. The call by one of the terrorists to his mother in Pakistan was made from inside the airbase.

NIA officials also said the four terrorists inside the airbase may have panicked after the Indian Air Force conducted an aerial survey following an alert from Punjab Superintendent of Police Salwinder Singh. Singh had been abducted by the JEM terrorists on their way to the airbase, but he was let go before the terror group reached their target area.

Salwinder underwent lie detection test on Tuesday and the procedure will continue on Wednesday. NIA D-G Kumar said: "He (Singh) has been interrogated many times. He is also a suspect. We are conducting a polygraph test on him." There will also be other tests, including one that helps establish Singh's personality profile.

Polygraph tests will also likely be conducted on Singh's cook Madan Gopal and the caretaker of the Somraj shrine, which is near the airbase. Salwinder's jeweller friend Rajesh Verma will be interrogated immediately after he is discharged from hospital, NIA officials said.




No wonder higher command is under scrutiny at PAFB per tweets posted by chetak.

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Re: Pathankot AFB terrorist Attack After Action Analysis-I

Postby Singha » 20 Jan 2016 07:25

um cant they just look at the personnel records and photos at the base to id who is missing!? its been 2 weeks now and surely anyone not reporting for work is noticed ?

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Re: Pathankot AFB terrorist Attack After Action Analysis-I

Postby Singha » 20 Jan 2016 07:29

is that aluminium type "silencer" a flash hider rather than a muzzle brake for night ops?

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Re: Pathankot AFB terrorist Attack After Action Analysis-I

Postby Shameek » 20 Jan 2016 08:05

Anyone have news on how the injured soldiers are doing?

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Re: Pathankot AFB terrorist Attack After Action Analysis-I

Postby chetak » 20 Jan 2016 08:41

Sid wrote:It is GP-25, not GP-30. GP-30 has sighting on the right on UBGL. That UBGL was standard for AK 47 series. If they had used American M203 UBGL then we could have called it a jugaad.

And it was intended to be used in mortar role, check out the diagram below.

Only jugaad seems to be that muzzle break, it's not a silencer.

http://sovposters.ru//2009/12/21/063701_gp25.jpg


muzzle brake seem to be an over kill for such a medium caliber weapon.

muzzle brake needs discharge ports to help reduce/counteract recoil. this doodah does not seem to have such ports

It looks more like a flash suppressor.

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Re: Pathankot AFB terrorist Attack After Action Analysis-I

Postby SaiK » 20 Jan 2016 08:50

so, this is more than massan fort hood shooting in terms of infiltration! there should be hidden proxies now gone deeper as sleeper moles.

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Re: Pathankot AFB terrorist Attack After Action Analysis-I

Postby chetak » 20 Jan 2016 08:55

Singha wrote:um cant they just look at the personnel records and photos at the base to id who is missing!? its been 2 weeks now and surely anyone not reporting for work is noticed ?


lots of families, both civilian and military are staying on the base. Inside job does not necessarily mean uniformed or even govt employed folks. Could be guests or relatives or even visitors who came and after the visit politely took leave and thereafter simply blended into the woods, as it were.

In most bases, there are usually a number of minorities, ostensibly performing "menial" or low level jobs. They order their behavior in such a way that they become "trusted" servants staying for decades in the servant's quarters and gaining the confidence of their employers and the memshahibs become totally dependent on them, often passing these servants on to their favored "friends" when they are transferred.

many families are very often indiscreet in their conversations because the servants are invisible to them.

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Re: Pathankot AFB terrorist Attack After Action Analyisis-I

Postby SaiK » 20 Jan 2016 09:22

deejay wrote:Do we need something like this on the IB at Punjab and other places next to Pakistan.

If you do that, then we need to see what is happening on the other side of the wall too. that means more gizmos and installations.

better to go for infrared, ultrasonic, doppler having the wired fence as free optical view... of course this may be a need for special purpose protections.

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Re: Pathankot AFB terrorist Attack After Action Analysis-I

Postby Sachin » 20 Jan 2016 09:35

Reporting...
Pathankot: Malayali youth arrested
he National Investigation Agency (NIA) arrested a Malayali youth in connection with the Pathankot terror attack. The NIA arrested Riyaz, a native of Mananthavadi in Wayanad, and was found to be living in Pathankot after changing his name from Dinesan to Riyaz.
Terror strike: Malayali held near Pathankot
The detained man, Dineshan alias Riyaz Rasheed, son of Ramachandran of Pilakkavu at Mananthavady in Wayanad, left the state in 2000, after he was reportedly involved in an excise case.

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Re: Pathankot AFB terrorist Attack After Action Analysis-I

Postby Sid » 20 Jan 2016 09:40

All these unmanned sensors, and their maintenance, are such a huge burden on our economy. And crossing IB and attacking is an act of war, why we have to go on defensive.

It's not that we are trying stop independent & organized Columbian/Mexican drug cartels, these are damn terrorists doing attacks with proper planning and support from state. They admit it on state television that they actively support it.

After initial euphoria this nation goes numb and its business as usual.

Mr. Parrikar, I hope you stand by your words in delivering appropriate response in due time.

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Re: Pathankot AFB terrorist Attack After Action Analysis-I

Postby member_27581 » 20 Jan 2016 15:31

Dont you guys see that Pakistani's are "also victims of terrorism". Look these evil terrorists attacked their budding Nobel Laureates at their "Bacha Khan" university.
Just realized Bacha Khan is our old "Frontier Gandhi". The same person who did not support Partition of India and told Congress "you have thrown us to the wolves."

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Re: Pathankot AFB terrorist Attack After Action Analysis-I

Postby Yagnasri » 20 Jan 2016 16:33

The same person. Khan Abdul Gaffar Khan. As per the initial reports 60-70 "students" killed with a shot to their heads by TeP. Now CNN reported 7 dead and 20 injured.

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Re: Pathankot AFB terrorist Attack After Action Analysis-I

Postby SaiK » 20 Jan 2016 17:02

appropriate response is some massive disturbance in baluch and sindh.

sachin, malayali kolayali aayi?

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Re: Pathankot AFB terrorist Attack After Action Analysis-I

Postby Kashi » 20 Jan 2016 18:43

SaiK wrote:appropriate response is some massive disturbance in baluch and sindh.

sachin, malayali kolayali aayi?


That'll be the icing on the cake that is destabilisation of Pakjab. Unlike the other two places, terroristani fauj cannot and will not go with a scorched earth policy in Central and Upper Pakjab.

Of course keeping Karachi on the boil means that Pakjabi access to the coast is curtailed..

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Re: Pathankot AFB terrorist Attack After Action Analysis-I

Postby ramana » 20 Jan 2016 20:29

If as the NIA says the two terrorists were insiders who didn't have guns, then what was their plan?
Blow themselves up? Initially reports said that their bodies were burnt up as the explosives cooked off. Means deflagration. A lot of heat would be need to get there.

Also if they were insiders they didn't appear to know the IAF airmen were in that building.

I now think they were radicalized IM who were on the base via connections. For argument sake lets postulate a group got radicalized and went over to TSP got trained and infiltrated the base via connections. So they are agents in place.

The arrest of Malayali accused is a pointer.


More and more it looks like Pak intelligence operation that went wrong.

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Re: Pathankot AFB terrorist Attack After Action Analysis-I

Postby shiv » 20 Jan 2016 20:40

ramana wrote:If as the NIA says the two terrorists were insiders who didn't have guns, then what was their plan?
Blow themselves up? Initially reports said that their bodies were burnt up as the explosives cooked off. Means deflagration. A lot of heat would be need to get there.

Also if they were insiders they didn't appear to know the IAF airmen were in that building.

I now think they were radicalized IM who were on the base via connections. For argument sake lets postulate a group got radicalized and went over to TSP got trained and infiltrated the base via connections. So they are agents in place.

The arrest of Malayali accused is a pointer.


More and more it looks like Pak intelligence operation that went wrong.


Ramana I suspect the BMPs used to hit the building after evacuating the airmen must have used incendiary rounds. Bam Bam Bam and the thing would have gone up

Question is how did they evacuate the airmen from the 1st floor if the oiseaules were in the ground floor

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Re: Pathankot AFB terrorist Attack After Action Analysis-I

Postby Baikul » 20 Jan 2016 20:48

ramana wrote:If as the NIA says the two terrorists were insiders who didn't have guns, then what was their plan?
Blow themselves up? Initially reports said that their bodies were burnt up as the explosives cooked off. Means deflagration. A lot of heat would be need to get there.

Also if they were insiders they didn't appear to know the IAF airmen were in that building.

I now think they were radicalized IM who were on the base via connections. For argument sake lets postulate a group got radicalized and went over to TSP got trained and infiltrated the base via connections. So they are agents in place.

The arrest of Malayali accused is a pointer.


More and more it looks like Pak intelligence operation that went wrong.


A bit far fetched but could the two dead locals part of the smuggling ring, who let in the four thinking this was a standard drug deal, and had their "Oh $hit I'm wrong" moment before being halaled by the Pakis? Do we know how the locals died?

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Re: Pathankot AFB terrorist Attack After Action Analysis-I

Postby Raja Bose » 20 Jan 2016 21:35

shiv, NSG rappeled down from the roof top and got the IAF men trapped on the first floor out. It's one of their well known drills that is demonstrated on their raising day.

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Re: Pathankot AFB terrorist Attack After Action Analysis-I

Postby ramana » 20 Jan 2016 21:39

Baikul, The two terrorists/insiders got fried with the explosives they accrued cooked off due to heat from the BMP rounds. so they were active participants in the attack.

Shiv, The IAF airmen were evacuated from the roof.

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Re: Pathankot AFB terrorist Attack After Action Analysis-I

Postby shiv » 21 Jan 2016 10:15

Image

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Re: Pathankot AFB terrorist Attack After Action Analysis-I

Postby Yagnasri » 21 Jan 2016 10:19

BSF has just now gunned down one suspect in Patankhote. 3 people tried to enter India.

In the meanwhile NIA just now conducted raids on SP and other peoples.

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Re: Pathankot AFB terrorist Attack After Action Analysis-I

Postby member_29282 » 21 Jan 2016 15:24

shiv wrote:Image

These omniscient media darlings will continue their blabber. All their reporting is based one "he said that she said that someone was whispering.." variety. Why is Saggy Ghose even commenting on Doval's tactic? She has never betrayed any signs of any knowledge in defense/security matters, why the sudden urge to chirp? Less said about that abomination called Rana Ayyub the better, worse than even Mr. Street-Thug. Beyond histrionics and chest-thumping, these rascals add little value to the discourse.

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Re: Pathankot AFB terrorist Attack After Action Analysis-I

Postby manjgu » 21 Jan 2016 17:08

if SP's role was suspected..his house should have been raided on day 1 ..not 2 weeks after the attack?

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Re: Pathankot AFB terrorist Attack After Action Analysis-I

Postby chetak » 21 Jan 2016 17:11

manjgu wrote:if SP's role was suspected..his house should have been raided on day 1 ..not 2 weeks after the attack?



the shady bugger would have hidden the payment by diamonds securely by now and / or paid off someone for sure.

no other reason for the jeweler "friend" to be present at the scene and in the SP's car except to authenticate the diamonds

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Re: Pathankot AFB terrorist Attack After Action Analysis-I

Postby manjgu » 21 Jan 2016 17:40

the jeweller has to slapped once..and he will spill the beans...

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Re: Pathankot AFB terrorist Attack After Action Analysis-I

Postby ramana » 23 Jan 2016 21:34

NIA raids six places related places belomging to SP & friends.

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Re: Pathankot AFB terrorist Attack After Action Analysis-I

Postby Rudradev » 27 Jan 2016 03:07

Not much time so will be brief.

Indian armed forces acquitted themselves with excellence, as always, in routing out the pigs from the AFB.

The ISI/JeM decision to launch the assault seems to have been reactive (to the surprise Slumbad visit of Modi) rather than geared proactively towards any considered military or political objective (however tactically brilliant). This separates the current situation from any number of others, from IC814 to Parliament Attack to Kaluchak to 26/11 where the initiative was clearly seized by the Pakis and we were forced to shape our policies reactively. In this case, the ISI played a large number of valuable cards... well-trained, well-equipped and motivated terrorists, a wide network of now-compromised assets that facilitated ingress and infiltration, a number of operational techniques that have now lost their power of initial surprise. All for what? They failed to achieve any spectacularly high death-toll, or to rattle public insecurities, or even to destroy any serious IAF hardware for the photo-op value. This seems to have been almost a panic move on the JeM/ISI's part... "use it or lose it" no matter how small the "gains", because we have to squeak in protest at the Badmash/Modi talks in whatever ineffective manner we can manage.

This is a sea change. THEY were reactive, this time, instead of us as usual. If we play our cards right (and I have little doubt that MAD will), this allows us to gain control of both retaliatory escalation and the bigger narrative.

The single most alarming thing about the Pathankot attack was the method of terrorist infiltration and ingress into the staging area, and the implied cooperation of nexuses involving the drug trade, corrupt officials (including police), and without a doubt local political patronage. Combined with the near-certainty that Kerjiwal/AAP is making a serious bid in the next Punjab state elections, very likely in alliance with politico-criminal networks that have used the Khalistan movement as cover for their violent and illegal activities, this for me is the most serious red flag to emerge from the entire incident.

Unfortunately, there seems to be little hope for this extremely vulnerable and volatile border state, because the main contenders in the upcoming elections are likely to be Congress (who are part and parcel of any politico-criminal nexus anywhere), the SAD (who have allowed such nexuses to fester over the years, possibly in lieu of extracting their own share of drug-trafficking profits), and AAP (who will certainly exacerbate the problem by adding in a virulent ingredient of anti-national Khalistani separatism in perfect accordance with the wishes of all their foreign masters).

THIS is what needs to be dealt with. By any means necessary.

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Re: Pathankot AFB terrorist Attack After Action Analysis-I

Postby kenop » 27 Jan 2016 07:27

NDTV is reporting about "Pathankot Assessment Report"
Quotes "Foreign cadet ran out in panic, had to be rescued". Looks like Pakistan's friends from across the Durand line were getting familiar with the toys.
The objective was to interrupt cooperation one way or the other. They did choose the most stupid of the options.

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Re: Pathankot AFB terrorist Attack After Action Analysis-I

Postby Aditya G » 27 Jan 2016 14:56

What caused Lt Col Niranjan's death?

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 710715.cms

...

"The suit which weighs several tons cannot be worn for more than 40 minutes and at Pathankot, the BDS team used these suits while dragging the body through a rope," said a top NSG official who was part of the contingent.

According to officials familiar with the operation, Niranjan discovered the ammunition pouch on the body of the dead militant at 9.30 am on January 3. A trained member of BDS, Niranjan is learnt to have noticed the grenade in the ammunition pouch while searching the body.

"The moment he took it out of the ammunition pouch, he seems to have realized that the pin that locks the grenade is out but by that time it was too late. The grenade seems to have exploded in his right hand," said a senior NSG official.

....


LTC Niranjan was an expert and he died in the line of duty. He followed SOP. It was an accident as much as Gurusewak's death was an accident.

Military's official report submitted to GOI:

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-pa ... rt-2170657

The military has reconstructed the details of the attack in a report submitted to the Centre.
NSG's martyred Lt Col Niranjan Kumar did not breach protocol by not wearing a bomb disposal suit, as per a military report, says NDTV.

...

The military has now reconstructed the details of the attack and according to them, owing to the uneven terrain at the base which is covered by elephant grass, Kumar could not wear the suit. "The bomb suit weighs about 60 kg, the terrain was undulating and covered by elephant grass, it was not possible to wear the suit, Lieutenant Colonel Niranjan didn't violate any procedure. He was an expert," a senior official told NDTV.

As per the military's report which was given to the Centre, the militants came in two groups. The first group of two terrorists who came on January 1 were able to breach the base without being detected. The second group of four terrorists climbed the 10-foot high wall lined with barbed wire. They were detected by the thermal surveillance of the aircraft on January 3, a day after they broke into the base. The report says that the thermal devices confirm they operated in two groups in the entire operation.

The group of two was supposed to be a guide for the rest. They were supposed to lead the others to the technical area where fighter jets and helicopters were parked. They did not have machine guns, but had Improvised Explosive Devices or IEDs, highly flammable incendiary gels, and ammonium nitrate to blow up military assets.


However, the second group could not move to the technical area and blew up motorcycles and parked cars in the residential area instead.

The group of two terrorists took shelter in the ground floor. There were at least five officers on the first floor who had to be rescued by NSG commandos before the forces could neutralise the terrorists



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