India-US relations: News and Discussions III

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 21 Feb 2017 13:52

sum wrote:Wonder what causes people to lose it like this?
Thousands declare 'I am Muslim too' at solidarity rally in US

Ummahs across globe are able to punch above their weight. This largely stems from the fact they vote for Democrats/Labour as block who in turn throw weight behind Ummahs.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Feb 2017 14:29

^^ its more than that. I think christians and jews in general are most comfortable with islam outside their faith, as islam is the younger offshoot of both. core concepts are not that different and share some common philosophy. islam too considers these two to be ;people of the book; and they only need to pay jaziya and be second class citizens and lie low , there is no injunction to forcibly convert or massacre them out of hand unlike zorastrians or hindus or buddhists.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 21 Feb 2017 14:36

i think that the primary driver at the moment is that muslims are in effect under the scanner in the west (lets leave aside the issue of oil droplets and the things we discuss on BRF) but it seems to me that a lot of ordinary people who happen to be muslim are becoming essentially 2nd class citizens (again i am not making any equal==equal with KSA, etc.) and therefore a large number of decent (but left leaning) people are willing to agitate against the (right wing) state to make a political point about inclusion and equality.

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 21 Feb 2017 15:56

Lalmohan wrote:i think that the primary driver at the moment is that muslims are in effect under the scanner in the west (lets leave aside the issue of oil droplets and the things we discuss on BRF) but it seems to me that a lot of ordinary people who happen to be muslim are becoming essentially 2nd class citizens (again i am not making any equal==equal with KSA, etc.) and therefore a large number of decent (but left leaning) people are willing to agitate against the (right wing) state to make a political point about inclusion and equality.

Precisely. Most of these solidarity movements involve liberals, progressives & libertarians and are primarily about individual rights. And those people in general tend to be irreligious.

Religious conservatives on the other hand are usually found in opposition. Of course, it helps that Christianity, predating Islam by a few centuries, has no concept of Ahl al-Kitab.

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 21 Feb 2017 17:14

IndraD wrote:
sum wrote:Wonder what causes people to lose it like this?
Thousands declare 'I am Muslim too' at solidarity rally in US
Ummahs across globe are able to punch above their weight. This largely stems from the fact they vote for Democrats/Labour as block who in turn throw weight behind Ummahs.

Much of it is anti-trump/anti-right wing and has little to do with the merits and demerits if Islam itself (which is what BRF members would be thinking about). Tomorrow if Trump bans Armadillos they would be declaring themselves to be Armadillos.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 21 Feb 2017 17:49

GCC is reaping benefits of having Sovereign funds and huge (quiet) stakes in major financial institutions, business houses and yes, publications/media. Very soon Soon Hollywood will make an inspirational movie about ISIS jihaids who risked their lives by raping children and cutting heads of prisoners without gloves.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 21 Feb 2017 18:29

sum wrote:Wonder what causes people to lose it like this?
Thousands declare 'I am Muslim too' at solidarity rally in US

It is a form of protest. Same thing that white non college voters did to protest economic stagnation/regression by voting for Trump - a billionaire with a history of dumping on contractors etc.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Feb 2017 21:14

Wondering when Trump gets brought in.
Gus last warning. Either you desist or leave us.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 21 Feb 2017 23:51

This really belongs in an Understanding USA thread, not in India-US relations. This is not "positive news about the USA" either.
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/arti ... t-century/

It turns out that the year 2000 marks a grim historical milestone of sorts for our nation. For whatever reasons, the Great American Escalator, which had lifted successive generations of Americans to ever higher standards of living and levels of social well-being, broke down around then—and broke down very badly.

Ever since 2000, basic indicators have offered oddly inconsistent readings on America’s economic performance and prospects. It is curious and highly uncharacteristic to find such measures so very far out of alignment with one another. We are witnessing an ominous and growing divergence between three trends that should ordinarily move in tandem: wealth, output, and employment. Depending upon which of these three indicators you choose, America looks to be heading up, down, or more or less nowhere.

Wealth --> up, output --> down, employment --> more or less nowhere.

Wealth:

Between early 2000 and late 2016, the estimated net worth of American households and nonprofit institutions more than doubled, from $44 trillion to $90 trillion.

Output:

As of late 2016, total value added to the U.S. economy was just 12 percent higher than in 2007. The situation is even more sobering if we consider per capita growth. It took America six and a half years—until mid-2014—to get back to its late 2007 per capita production levels. And in late 2016, per capita output was just 4 percent higher than in late 2007—nine years earlier. By this reckoning, the American economy looks to have suffered something close to a lost decade.

But there was clearly trouble brewing in America’s macro-economy well before the 2008 crash, too. Between late 2000 and late 2007, per capita GDP growth averaged less than 1.5 percent per annum. That compares with the nation’s long-term postwar 1948–2000 per capita growth rate of almost 2.3 percent, which in turn can be compared to the “snap back” tempo of 1.1 percent per annum since per capita GDP bottomed out in 2009. Between 2000 and 2016, per capita growth in America has averaged less than 1 percent a year. To state it plainly: With postwar, pre-21st-century rates for the years 2000–2016, per capita GDP in America would be more than 20 percent higher than it is today.

Employment:

Then there is the employment situation. If 21st-century America’s GDP trends have been disappointing, labor-force trends have been utterly dismal. Work rates have fallen off a cliff since the year 2000 and are at their lowest levels in decades. We can see this by looking at the estimates by the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) for the civilian employment rate, the jobs-to-population ratio for adult civilian men and women. Between early 2000 and late 2016, America’s overall work rate for Americans age 20 and older underwent a drastic decline. It plunged by almost 5 percentage points (from 64.6 to 59.7). Unless you are a labor economist, you may not appreciate just how severe a falloff in employment such numbers attest to. Postwar America never experienced anything comparable.

...U.S. adult work rates never recovered entirely from the recession of 2001—much less the crash of ’08. And the work rates being measured here include people who are engaged in any paid employment—any job, at any wage, for any number of hours of work at all.

There is no way to sugarcoat these awful numbers. They are not a statistical artifact that can be explained away by population aging, or by increased educational enrollment for adult students, or by any other genuine change in contemporary American society. The plain fact is that 21st-century America has witnessed a dreadful collapse of work.

It is not only that work rates for prime-age males have fallen since the year 2000—they have, but the collapse of work for American men is a tale that goes back at least half a century. (I wrote a short book last year about this sad saga.2) What is perhaps more startling is the unexpected and largely unnoticed fall-off in work rates for prime-age women. In the U.S. and all other Western societies, postwar labor markets underwent an epochal transformation. After World War II, work rates for prime women surged, and continued to rise—until the year 2000. Since then, they too have declined. Current work rates for prime-age women are back to where they were a generation ago, in the late 1980s. The 21st-century U.S. economy has been brutal for male and female laborers alike—and the wreckage in the labor market has been sufficiently powerful to cancel, and even reverse, one of our society’s most distinctive postwar trends: the rise of paid work for women outside the household.

Conclusion:

The abstraction of “inequality” doesn’t matter a lot to ordinary Americans. The reality of economic insecurity does. The Great American Escalator is broken—and it badly needs to be fixed.

With the election of 2016, Americans within the bubble finally learned that the 21st century has gotten off to a very bad start in America. Welcome to the reality. We have a lot of work to do together to turn this around.

Yayavar · Post by **Yayavar** » 22 Feb 2017 04:30

^how much of this is due to collective greed and wanting more for doing nothing? Like some blaming H1s for not earning high themselves.

The dot-com bomb was due to the visions of get rich quick on nothing but flashy websites. People and banks pumped in their resources into those stocks. It had to collapse and did effecting lots of people and jobs. Real companies stocks and bottom line also went down and they had to go in for cuts; and since then it has been race to the least cost. Parallel to it in general there is the impact of gloabalisation - low cost manufacturing or backoffice work off to other shores. Not everyone can reskill in time and look to easy rich schemes like dot.com.

And by the time that had sunk in came the housing bubble and cheating by banks. OF course the ordinary american was not immune to the greed - went in hand over fist for the low interest rates, buying stuff they could not afford, taking loans or mortgages to buy boats and new cars and trucks and vacations etc. till it collapsed. Taking big banks, individual assets and industry down with it.

The unnecessary wars in ME didnt help with multiple wounded returning to middle america needing medical help which is also plagued by greed of insurance companies. The same medical companies who tout painkillers for simple aches and pains leading to multiple overdose of opiods. And I suppose the war did not help the oil prices amongst other factors leading to further collapse of automobile industry. All nicely culminating in 2008/9.

Somewhere in there is also the fallout of entitlement - not wanting to work but wanting good things, better work life balance without compromising on salary. Not all elements can be satisfied. JD VAnce in his hillbilly elegy describes coworkers or family members willing to drop honest work even when they needed the money because...well they had other plans or higher ego. (Not that i found the book all the explanatory on why middle america voted the way it did - other than my assessment that it is based on hope that a change will be good. Just like Dilli guys did in 2014).

In effect the data from the previous post shows the collapse but am one major contributor is generic greed in society -of both, those in bubble and the 'ordinary' non-bubble people. The escalator is broken because people wanted to ride it faster than it could move - through speculation on wall street, through speculation in housing market combined with lack of discipline in spending - unnecessary war, personal finance, health (as in addiction). Maybe being harsh ..

Added later: Read the article linked above beyond the excerpts included in previous post. It is quite detailed, and explains a lot more.

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 23 Feb 2017 02:03

The man angling to become the U.S. envoy to India shares Trump’s love of the limelight

NEW DELHI — Chicago industrialist Shalabh “Shalli” Kumar kept the Delhi press corps waiting for over an hour before he finally showed up with a Bollywood starlet in tow — a woman he euphemistically refers to as his “daughter.”Kumar, 68, was there to discuss his role as “chief architect” of the Trump campaign’s outreach to the Indian American community, but first things first: “You can clap now,” he instructed.The Indian-born Kumar — one of Trump’s major donors and a tireless surrogate — may be an unconventional choice for a U.S. ambassador, but countries around the world are dealing with rumors of unconventional American ambassadors heading their way. The notion that Sarah Palin would go to Ottawa was in the Canadian air until the Trump administration knocked it down, and officials from the European Union were aghast to hear that an anti-E.U. professor might be named to the U.S. post in Brussels.

Kumar, intent on being more than a rumor, has been quietly waging a behind-the-scenes campaign to be America’s envoy to New Delhi, although, publicly, he says he would “have to think about it” if asked.He has made trips to India, given high-profile media interviews and scored a coup last week, when he hosted U.S. Chargé d’Affaires MaryKay L. Carlson for tea at his vacation “palace” in southern India. He quickly posted photos on Twitter, cc’ing Trump insiders Jared Kushner and Stephen K. Bannon.“They think that to get into Trump’s head they need to understand me,” Kumar said of the sudden, intense interest in him here.

Indian officials and diplomats — who prefer their U.S. ambassadors to be statesmen — are dismayed that Kumar is on Trump’s short list. But as one of the few Indian Americans arguably close to Trump, Kumar has to be taken seriously, they say.“He clicks well with Trump; that’s what matters,” said Robinder Sachdev of the Reston, Va.-based U.S. India Political Action Committee. “He’s quite an outgoing personality, and whatever he does, he tries to do it with a lot of flair.”

The Indian media have called Kumar and Mamgai “the father and daughter with a direct line to Donald Trump” and likened them to the “power duo” of Trump and daughter Ivanka.

But he has gotten in trouble for pushing the boundaries of these relationships. In 2013, he was sent a “cease and desist” note by the House Republican Conference for misusing its seal and insignia for political purposes on his stationery, a former staffer confirmed last week.He still gives out business cards with an official-looking seal that identify him by this old title — “chairman, Indian American Advisory Council, House Republican Conference.” A leadership aide from the conference said Friday that there is no such council.Kumar denied receiving a “cease and desist” notice and said the council still exists.

It is important to have a person in this job, who is "close to Trump"; if he is a "career diplomat", so much better !

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 23 Feb 2017 02:34

Falijee wrote:The man angling to become the U.S. envoy to India shares Trump’s love of the limelight
...

The venomous, leering, smut-fishing tone of that article needs to be read to be believed.

Just look at the number of lewd barbs that the Washington Post's so-called "reporter", Annie Gowen, scatters throughout her column regarding the relationship between Mr. Kumar and Ms. Manasvi Mamgai. According to Gowen, Kumar "euphemistically refers to" Ms. Mamgai as his daughter.

When considered from the viewpoint of shrill, intellectually bankrupt, knee-jerk Western Feminism... the motive behind casting these snide aspersions is clear. Set up a not-so-subtle dog whistle alleging an "inappropriate" relationship between Mr. Kumar and Ms. Mamgai. You can see in the comments section that some rabidly anti-Trump readers have picked right up on what Gowen does not overtly say, and have dutifully begun calling Mr. Kumar a "dirty old man".

Now how would these Feminists react if we "euphemistically referred" to Ms. Annie Gowen's triple-chinned, piggy-eyed, 5-foot/120-kilo frame as "Full-Figured"?

Third-rate closet-racist Western-supremacist piece of $hit.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 23 Feb 2017 09:12

I am not sure he will be US ambassador to India. What is the reason for him to want that job? He is said to be quite a wealthy man and must he loving the limelight he has in the US at present, and why come here and be out of the limelight? My view is that there will be some serious EJ fellow who will be given that post.

Bheeshma · Post by **Bheeshma** » 23 Feb 2017 09:43

Then that EJ fellow will be ignored and shunted aside by New Delhi. No I am expecting a career diplomat but desi origin.

nvishal · Post by **nvishal** » 24 Feb 2017 00:02

A firangi ambassador is much tolerated than a brown guy in new delhi. My predictions are that it'll be a white guy.

Either way, the primary purpose of US ambassadors to india these few years has been to sell outdated military hardware to india, the proceeds from which they(the americans) use to arm up pakistan. In a way, the pakistani teeth is financed by india to some degree.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 24 Feb 2017 03:28

Gyan wrote:GCC is reaping benefits of having Sovereign funds and huge (quiet) stakes in major financial institutions, business houses and yes, publications/media. Very soon Soon Hollywood will make an inspirational movie about ISIS jihaids who risked their lives by raping children and cutting heads of prisoners without gloves.

that's exactly why these mullahs are greedily sniffing around India treating Modi grandly.

They need a safe haven for their sovereign funds and India is one of the very few buoyant markets and economies to be able to give them returns as also the mullah influence on the local populace.

Sort of two birds with one stone thingee.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 24 Feb 2017 03:30

nvishal wrote:A firangi ambassador is much tolerated than a brown guy in new delhi. My predictions are that it'll be a white guy.

Either way, the primary purpose of US ambassadors to india these few years has been to sell outdated military hardware to india, the proceeds from which they(the americans) use to arm up pakistan. In a way, the pakistani teeth is financed by india to some degree.

Name some examples of outdated military hardware sold in the last few years? If that is the case then the Russians have been selling muskets and cannons to India.

India does not finance military sales to Pakistan either directly or indirectly.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 24 Feb 2017 04:53

Not the right thread to post this, but where else?
http://nj1015.com/missing-nj-man-was-ki ... hore-park/

The body of 29-year-old Trupal Patel was discovered Wednesday morning by a Monmouth County Park Ranger.

Read More: Missing NJ man was killed and his body dumped in Jersey Shore park | http://nj1015.com/missing-nj-man-was-ki ... ck=tsmclip

bhalluka · Post by **bhalluka** » 24 Feb 2017 05:39

The convulsions are beginning again. Feel for Srinivas and his family. Glad at least one person stood up for him.

http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/cr ... 59444.html

Gives good background information on the racist shooter. The comments are informative as well.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 24 Feb 2017 06:36

Public records show Adam Wade Purinton, 51, owns a house in the 17600 block of West 155th Terrace in Olathe and previously lived in Wichita.

There are no federal or Missouri criminal records on Purinton.

Records indicate Purinton has an inactive pilot’s license and air traffic controller certificate.

A U.S. Navy spokeswoman confirmed that Purinton served in the Navy but said no further details were readily available because the records were being retrieved from the archives.
---
Not the average white trash/redneck/hillbilly.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 24 Feb 2017 08:18

Navy veteran, IT specialist, former pilot and air traffic controller
Insanity and PTSD defense, wrapped in Da Flag. ~~Texas.~~ Kansas, hmmm! Not guilty.

ramki · Post by **ramki** » 24 Feb 2017 08:41

There is lot of prejudice and hatred coming out in the open. In my office we have a table where they keep tge days news paper. Today's paper says "Millions would be deported from the us" and the comments written on the paper are disgusting, hard to believe as the americans working in the office are educated and do see lot of diverse people.

kiranA · Post by **kiranA** » 24 Feb 2017 09:21

Just a more extreme and violent version of many posters here who said Indians on h1 or l1 should go back to their own country and develop it.

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 24 Feb 2017 09:58

ramki wrote:There is lot of prejudice and hatred coming out in the open. In my office we have a table where they keep tge days news paper. Today's paper says "Millions would be deported from the us" and the comments written on the paper are disgusting, hard to believe as the americans working in the office are educated and do see lot of diverse people.

Which state? could be just one person trying to be mischievous.. You should file a harassment complaint. This will establish a paper/email trail so legal action could be taken later in case management does nothing.

The US is unique and great, in that it accords all the worker rights it accords to citizens to guest workers also. You have rights. Exercise them.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 24 Feb 2017 10:43

Is it time for the MEA to issue a travel warning to Indians in the US to avoid common public places? Dangerous ultra-nationalist terrorists with guns shooting any brown looking people?

LokeshC · Post by **LokeshC** » 24 Feb 2017 11:05

Social status has nothing to do with bigotry, racism, cognitive biases and the probability that someone would go apesheet.

ISIS recruiting is proof of that.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Feb 2017 13:18

This statement is meaningless imo. What should gotus or goi do? They can do nothing. Even if goi issues a travel warning does anyone think desis will lose the lure of land of milk and honey? Nobody forces people to go there .
The police have caught the guy promptly and done their job dutifully. Fbi will poke around and then leave.

Ibn

It is a very troublesome situation. It has become a big question whether we should send our children to US or not. We want our government to raise this issue in the international platform. It is unfortunate that the US government is not serious about taking care of these issues. Also, our government also has not taken any steps to stop such situations," Telangana NRI Parents Association, Dr Rajkumar.

Zynda · Post by **Zynda** » 24 Feb 2017 13:56

Telangana NRI Parents Association?

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 24 Feb 2017 14:12

what is the 'background rate' of murders/hate crimes against PIO's in the US?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Feb 2017 14:59

A_Gupta wrote:Not the right thread to post this, but where else?
http://nj1015.com/missing-nj-man-was-ki ... hore-park/
The body of 29-year-old Trupal Patel was discovered Wednesday morning by a Monmouth County Park Ranger.

Read More: Missing NJ man was killed and his body dumped in Jersey Shore park | http://nj1015.com/missing-nj-man-was-ki ... ck=tsmclip

he was a drug dealer who was arrested in may 2016 with two others in the same area. used to drive a jaguar. out on a $150k bail. some deal must have gone wrong and a gang took him out.
http://wobm.com/marijuana-hallucinogens ... -pleasant/

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 24 Feb 2017 16:11

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 24 Feb 2017 17:27

As I read about the news of the slaughter of an Indian guy in Kansas, and another critical injured battling for his life, by a white Nazi; and at the same time, watching DDM and asosrted elite in India go berserk on the "freedom of speech" of traitors like Umar Khalid and Sheila Rashiid while accusing their detractors as "hyper nationalists"; the contrasting nationalism narratives are stark. In US, this slaughter will hardly make mainstream news; I doubt Nazi news networks like Fox will even talk about it, while so called "liberal" media like NYT will make a passing mention.

LokeshC · Post by **LokeshC** » 24 Feb 2017 17:33

This always was the US. Nothing changed dramatically on the ground, the political reality did change dramatically to reflect the ground reality.

That's all folks. No offence meant to my late fellow Indic who never deserved a death like that.

Rishi Verma · Post by **Rishi Verma** » 24 Feb 2017 17:46

He said something about arabs...

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 24 Feb 2017 18:30

"Shot two Middle Easterners". AKA "Sand ****ahs". Question to poke, if there are good desi lawyers in Kansas, is how much blame should attach on his "friends and neighbors" - and then sue the pants off all of them. (sigh! if there were good desi lawyers willing to do that, would the KKK in Ulan Bator deny a permit for a local temple in 2017? Would California Bored of Bigotry & Illiteracy diss the suggested changes in their racist bigot textbooks?) Must have done this because it was approved as the 'right' thing to do per his bar buddies and religious congregation, besides the local politics. Surprised he didn't "think" his victims were Russians.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 24 Feb 2017 18:38

UlanBatori wrote:Navy veteran, IT specialist, former pilot and air traffic controller
Insanity and PTSD defense, wrapped in Da Flag. ~~Texas.~~ Kansas, hmmm! Not guilty.

\
cheap shot at texas, eh?

if it happened in texas, the killer would probably be put on death row and executed with a dirt nap cocktail..

in India, murder a Aussie and his two sons and get life in prison.

Anurag · Post by **Anurag** » 24 Feb 2017 19:12

There is a reason this will never make national news. Look at the data on the CDC website and try and infer.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm

Firearm homicides
Number of deaths: 10,945
Deaths per 100,000 population: 3.4

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 24 Feb 2017 20:02

TSJones wrote:in India, murder a Aussie and his two sons and get life in prison.

while what happened to that family is horrible, his situation of being willfully engaged in coerced conversions is different than this guy who was americanized to the point of watching college basketball at a bar.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 24 Feb 2017 20:09

from a comment at kansas city star,

I worked with Adam years ago and he treated me with respect, kindness and compassion knowing that I am Arab and Muslim. I can't say that I am shocked by his actions as nothing surprises me anymore but I am sad, disappointed and angry. So many lives are now destroyed due to the racist views of one person who has no self-control or understanding of the value of a life. I pray for the victims families and for Adam's family. To know that your son/nephew/uncle is a racist and a murderer is heartbreaking.

few other comments there from people who claimed to know him / worked with him..

shravanp · Post by **shravanp** » 24 Feb 2017 20:13

Mort Walker wrote:Is it time for the MEA to issue a travel warning to Indians in the US to avoid common public places? Dangerous ultra-nationalist terrorists with guns shooting any brown looking people?

Especially southern-states bound, they certainly need be travel warning to Indians.