India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 24 Feb 2017 20:17

LokeshC wrote:This always was the US. Nothing changed dramatically on the ground, the political reality did change dramatically to reflect the ground reality.

of course...but I feel in recent years, the deluge of fake news poisons minds even more and pushes them over the edge.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 24 Feb 2017 20:20

Desis shopping on Oak Tree Road in Edison NJ are being asked by cops for their papers to check immigration status, I am told.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 24 Feb 2017 20:22

Best to keep a picture/pdf of your visa, ppt and i-94 in your phone local directory and also in your email.

Marten · Post by **Marten** » 24 Feb 2017 20:39

What papers will they need to verify identity? SSN? Passport? Passport with valid visa? Good fun onlee.

LokeshC · Post by **LokeshC** » 24 Feb 2017 21:48

Good luck if you are brown but born here in the US and dont have a license yet.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Feb 2017 21:57

A_Gupta wrote:Desis shopping on Oak Tree Road in Edison NJ are being asked by cops for their papers to check immigration status, I am told.

Wow. The last bastion is crumbling if oak tree is being shaken down. Big. I always thought some of the shop and food workers there were a bit iffy in terms of papers though not just desis but tspians

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Feb 2017 21:59

LokeshC wrote:Good luck if you are brown but born here in the US and dont have a license yet.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 24 Feb 2017 22:05

A_Gupta wrote:Desis shopping on Oak Tree Road in Edison NJ are being asked by cops for their papers to check immigration status, I am told.

If only we did this in India and weeded out Pakis and Banglas and other dirty creatures.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 24 Feb 2017 22:09

will folks react the same if they/kids are profiled/stopped-frisked/detained for lack of papers on person etc when they are hanging out in the mall or something? are people that blind with the 'won't happen to me' thing...

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 24 Feb 2017 22:13

A liberal is a conservative who has just been arrested. A conservative is a liberal who has just got mugged...

LokeshC · Post by **LokeshC** » 24 Feb 2017 23:00

^^^So True. And the reason why I dont get involved much in discussing massas politics these days with friends or family.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 24 Feb 2017 23:05

Told you so. There.

LokeshC · Post by **LokeshC** » 24 Feb 2017 23:07

^^^Welcome back

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 25 Feb 2017 00:31

http://www.frommers.com/tips/miscellane ... kf.twitter
"The Travel Press is Reporting the 'Trump Slump,' a Devastating Drop in Tourism to the United States"

Thus, the prestigious Travel Weekly magazine (as close to an “official” travel publication as they come) has set the decline in foreign tourism at 6.8%. And the fall-off is not limited to Muslim travelers, but also extends to all incoming foreign tourists. Apparently, an attack on one group of tourists is regarded as an assault on all.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 25 Feb 2017 01:17

Gus wrote:
TSJones wrote:in India, murder a Aussie and his two sons and get life in prison.
while what happened to that family is horrible, his situation of being willfully engaged in coerced conversions is different than this guy who was americanized to the point of watching college basketball at a bar.

oh yeah, the guy and his two sons deserved it while sleeping in their car.

forced conversions while his two young children were with him.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 25 Feb 2017 01:41

TSJones wrote:oh yeah, the guy and his two sons deserved it while sleeping in their car.

forced conversions while his two young children were with him.

Strawman argument with 'deserved'.

false equivalency with staines situation and srinivas.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 25 Feb 2017 01:49

TSJones wrote:
Gus wrote:
while what happened to that family is horrible, his situation of being willfully engaged in coerced conversions is different than this guy who was americanized to the point of watching college basketball at a bar.
oh yeah, the guy and his two sons deserved it while sleeping in their car.

forced conversions while his two young children were with him.

Reported TSJ's post as Evanjihadi baiting.
Hope the mods take note.

disha · Post by **disha** » 25 Feb 2017 02:11

Gus wrote:will folks react the same if they/kids are profiled/stopped-frisked/detained for lack of papers on person etc when they are hanging out in the mall or something? are people that blind with the 'won't happen to me' thing...

Been there done that. Yes - profiled, stopped and detained. This happened in good old days of Ombaba. But then nobody covered it! Now at the very least there will be coverage!!

disha · Post by **disha** » 25 Feb 2017 02:12

TSJones wrote: oh yeah, the guy and his two sons deserved it while sleeping in their car.

forced conversions while his two young children were with him.

TSJones., the aussie was more into 'forceful' conversions and not just forced conversions. If you get my drift. If not you can ask several of the Vatican Bishops or cardinals who have love issues with underage kids. Now do you support such exploitative charlatans?

Also just to let you know, the gates foundation shut shop in India. Can you guess why?

Have you heard of the Tuskegee experiment? What do you think should be done to the perpetrators of that experiment?

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 25 Feb 2017 02:18

disha wrote:Been there done that. Yes - profiled, stopped and detained. This happened in good old days of Ombaba. But then nobody covered it! Now at the very least there will be coverage!!

I am not one to claim it was honey and milk flowing in ombaba and now it is carnage under 'one who cannot be bashed' (I am fearful of uttering his name in this thread)- I just don't think making cops on the street do "random" immigration check and enforcement as a good idea anywhere - US or India for that matter

disha · Post by **disha** » 25 Feb 2017 02:25

kiranA wrote:Just a more extreme and violent version of many posters here who said Indians on h1 or l1 should go back to their own country and develop it.

Wrong attribution and wrong deductions. But then when one wants to live in a make-believe world., all that is said is useless.

Many posters here said that the *abuse* of L1 and H1 visa needs to be stopped. This abuse actually hurts genuine persons.

disha · Post by **disha** » 25 Feb 2017 02:31

Gus'ji now we differ on how best it could be implemented. Can beat cops be also given the charge to check out immigration papers? If yes, did they receive proper training?

I think the beat cop is the first line of contact and has to be trained on how to deal with varied situations. Like culture training etc. But it is not wrong to assume that they can take the role of immigration checks.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 25 Feb 2017 03:38

Gus wrote: 'one who cannot be bashed' (I am fearful of uttering his name in this thread)

voldemortullah?

saip · Post by **saip** » 25 Feb 2017 03:47

After 9/11 my son used to be singled out. He was in school and used to fly home frequently. Almost every time he was 'randomly selected' for security screening. Why? Probably right age (early 20's), brown, name common to Muslims and Hindus. He did not complain as most often he was sent to the head of the line for screening.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 25 Feb 2017 03:58

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... ySK6O.html
"US can’t ignore India: Nasscom on proposed H-1B visa curb"

Anurag · Post by **Anurag** » 25 Feb 2017 04:16

A_Gupta wrote:Desis shopping on Oak Tree Road in Edison NJ are being asked by cops for their papers to check immigration status, I am told.

Fake alerts of document checks spread in N.J. immigrant communities

http://www.nj.com/middlesex/index.ssf/2 ... _immi.html

disha · Post by **disha** » 25 Feb 2017 05:21

I hope at least those Desis facing discrimination because they look like Middle-Easterners will stop going to Bakistani restaurants - particularly when they advertise as 'Indian' or 'Indo-Bak' cuisine.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 25 Feb 2017 05:38

Actually the incident is likely to have EXACTLY the opposite effect.

Desis in the US will stop trying to fit in or hang around where goras are (e.g. going to all-American bar and grill type joints, like the one where Srinivas got murdered).

Instead, they will respond to the perceived danger by ghetto-izing. By willingly contracting their social circles to interact only with those who are ethnically similar.

And many, many of them will seek and find common cause with fellow "browns", even if they are Pakis. They will prefer to spend their free time and money at Shaan's Biryani Corner where desi music is playing and desi flavours are in the air, than "Austin's" type places rife with the possibility of a white bigot shooting them.

End result, many more Indians in the US will transform into uber-liberal Democrats with a strong sense of identification with Muslim victimology. This will almost certainly end up having influence on their ideas about Islam in general, India-Pak relations, J&K etc.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 25 Feb 2017 05:43

Meanwhile the "RW" geniuses on this thread are beginning to sound as if they are one communion wafer away from becoming the next Bobby Jindal

kiranA · Post by **kiranA** » 25 Feb 2017 05:44

Rudradev wrote:Actually the incident is likely to have EXACTLY the opposite effect.

Desis in the US will stop trying to fit in or hang around where goras are (e.g. going to all-American bar and grill type joints, like the one where Srinivas got murdered). They will ghetto-ize instead, willingly contracting their social circles to interact only with those who are ethnically similar. And many, many of them will seek and find common cause with fellow "browns", even if they are Pakis. They will prefer to spend their free time at Shaan's Biryani Corner where desi music is playing and desi flavours are in the air, than "Austin's" type places rife with the possibility of a white bigot shooting them.

End result, many more Indians in the US will transform into uber-liberal Democrats with a strong sense of identification with Muslim victimology. This will almost certainly end up having influence on their ideas about Islam in general, India-Pak relations, J&K etc.

What is at play is white racism against Indians - something that was there for last four hundred years ? but the worry seems to be whether Muslims benefit.

kiranA · Post by **kiranA** » 25 Feb 2017 05:46

Anurag wrote:
A_Gupta wrote:Desis shopping on Oak Tree Road in Edison NJ are being asked by cops for their papers to check immigration status, I am told.
Fake alerts of document checks spread in N.J. immigrant communities

http://www.nj.com/middlesex/index.ssf/2 ... _immi.html

I do hope they are fake. But the assurances that they are not fake seems to be given by a show owner whose business will be devastated if people think these rumours are credible. The chinese guys actually seems to be willing to believe they are true.

kiranA · Post by **kiranA** » 25 Feb 2017 05:47

disha wrote:
kiranA wrote:Just a more extreme and violent version of many posters here who said Indians on h1 or l1 should go back to their own country and develop it.
Wrong attribution and wrong deductions. But then when one wants to live in a make-believe world., all that is said is useless.

Many posters here said that the *abuse* of L1 and H1 visa needs to be stopped. This abuse actually hurts genuine persons.

Are you sure ? they are plenty of posts celebrating retrictions on h1 with a smug "good for India IMO" followed by some annoying emoticon.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Feb 2017 06:06

It a tragedy that young man was killed. No need to self flagellate.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 25 Feb 2017 06:18

Rudradev wrote:Actually the incident is likely to have EXACTLY the opposite effect. ..

I have been in the US long enough to remember that I felt more fear in 1970 when George Wallace, Lester Maddox and Spiro Agnew were in full swing. It was less than six years after the 1964 civil rights act, 2 years after Bill Cosby became the first Black lead on TV in I Spy, two years after MLK and JFK were assassinated. It was kind of strange being different then compared to now.

Back then, nativism as in "go back etc." stung. Not any more. Not If it comes my way (and it hasn't yet after Trump). I would not slink away, hide with my 'own', make common cause with Muslims, dissolve in ghettos etc. Trump (I have met him him way back in the 1980s) is not a racist per se. But he is an arrogant S*B who does not realize the the consequences of his rhetoric that while useful in whipping the corporate slaves to improve morale, has no place in public governance.

The US is going to spend the next 4 years convulsing over a dysfunctional administration that will achieve nothing and the Republicans will be given the boot much like the Democrats were during the Obama I mid terms.

The only people who can save Donald Trump are Keith Ellison and his ilk. If they succeed in getting the levers of power, it a second Trump term.

IMVVHO, if Joe Biden had run, he'd have won by a landslide. HRC and Obama made DT happen.

The Indian Consulate like the Mexicans' has to start tracking Indian citizens in the US and making them aware of rights and facilitating access to legal and support services.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 25 Feb 2017 06:55

Have you heard of the Tuskegee experiment? What do you think should be done to the perpetrators of that experiment?

there were a number of these experiments. which ones do we prosecute?

a radiation experiment on a hill billy kid with lukemia at Qak Ridge, Tn.

an oxygen experiment on premature babies resulting in blindness in the control group Chicago, Il.

1000's of children dying of cancer in Nevada and Utah from fallout tests.

US troops ordered to do manuevers next to atomic bomb explosions in Nevada.

the list goes on.

what about lynchings?

a third of the lynchings that occurred were white guys, they were in jail and a mob broke them out and hanged them.

so which ones do you want to go back and prosecute.

I'll say it again, if the crime that recently occurred in kansas had occurred in texas a death penalty would probably result.

the underhand shot at texas by the mongol was undeserved.

kiranA · Post by **kiranA** » 25 Feb 2017 07:09

TSJones wrote:
UlanBatori wrote:Navy veteran, IT specialist, former pilot and air traffic controller
Insanity and PTSD defense, wrapped in Da Flag. ~~Texas.~~ Kansas, hmmm! Not guilty.
\
cheap shot at texas, eh?

if it happened in texas, the killer would probably be put on death row and executed with a dirt nap cocktail..

in India, murder a Aussie and his two sons and get life in prison.

Still whining about justice done 17 years ago in a country with generally piss poor law enforcement and a culture of extremely low death penalty ? And its quiet likely you will be quick to accuse minorities in usa as "sensitive".

Atmavik · Post by **Atmavik** » 25 Feb 2017 07:42

Rudradev wrote:Actually the incident is likely to have EXACTLY the opposite effect.

Desis in the US will stop trying to fit in or hang around where goras are (e.g. going to all-American bar and grill type joints, like the one where Srinivas got murdered).

Instead, they will respond to the perceived danger by ghetto-izing. By willingly contracting their social circles to interact only with those who are ethnically similar.

And many, many of them will seek and find common cause with fellow "browns", even if they are Pakis. They will prefer to spend their free time and money at Shaan's Biryani Corner where desi music is playing and desi flavours are in the air, than "Austin's" type places rife with the possibility of a white bigot shooting them.

End result, many more Indians in the US will transform into uber-liberal Democrats with a strong sense of identification with Muslim victimology. This will almost certainly end up having influence on their ideas about Islam in general, India-Pak relations, J&K etc.

RD ji,

desi's in Suburbia are already ghetto-ized but these are all upscale/Upper middle class communities. i can easily travel 15 miles further and pay 1/4 th for housing but i dont and neither do my friends as these places are not good for desis for a variety of reasons like schools, grocery store, cinema halls etc.

but we are taking a few precautions of not visiting White collar areas. there is an elderly Sardarji in my community who walks 5 miles a day. he has been advised to take a break.

Atmavik · Post by **Atmavik** » 25 Feb 2017 07:46

Singha wrote:
A_Gupta wrote:Desis shopping on Oak Tree Road in Edison NJ are being asked by cops for their papers to check immigration status, I am told.
Wow. The last bastion is crumbling if oak tree is being shaken down. Big. I always thought some of the shop and food workers there were a bit iffy in terms of papers though not just desis but tspians

i was there last weekend no sign of any trouble.

habal · Post by **habal** » 25 Feb 2017 07:54

Mort Walker wrote:Is it time for the MEA to issue a travel warning to Indians in the US to avoid common public places? Dangerous ultra-nationalist terrorists with guns shooting any brown looking people?

As leader of the free world I think we should do this.

USA is self-proclaimed leader of the western-anglo-euro free world. The rest don't consider them as leader or side-kick. That is where India comes into picture. We are leaders of the rest.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 25 Feb 2017 08:36

[quote="Rudradev"]Actually the incident is likely to have EXACTLY the opposite effect.

Desis in the US will stop trying to fit in or hang around where goras are (e.g. going to all-American bar and grill type joints, like the one where Srinivas got murdered).

Instead, they will respond to the perceived danger by ghetto-izing. By willingly contracting their social circles to interact only with those who are ethnically similar.

And many, many of them will seek and find common cause with fellow "browns", even if they are Pakis. They will prefer to spend their free time and "

The first course of Indians stopping their visits to all-American bar and grill joints, is possible, though it won't be universal. It will depend on things like degree of comfort and acceptance at those places. For the second scenario of desis identifying with Moslems, what's needed is a combination of mental strength and perspicacity. They should be able to distinguish between blatant, and violent, racism against browns( such as in Kansas) and support for Islamism and Islamic separatism in India, particularly Kashmir. The mentally strong ones will be able to make that distinction, and not fall for accepting everything just because it comes with "Moslem" attached to it. The weaker or less thoughtful Desis will lump everything together and swallow the idea that supporting Moslems is the same as opposing racism schtick.