India-US relations: News and Discussions III

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UlanBatori
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby UlanBatori » 25 Feb 2017 09:10

I'll say it again, if the crime that recently occurred in kansas had occurred in texas a death penalty would probably result.
the underhand shot at texas by the mongol was undeserved.


With deepest apologies to TSJi for the perceived slight to Texas, the Kansas killer does not qualify for the generously applied death penalty in Texas. The killer's race is severely discriminated against when it comes to being selected for execution. Pls check the statistics.

And this idiot is a Navy veteran. No way are they going to fry a Navy veteran "simply" for murdering an Asian in a bar brawl. In New Jersey this would be a misdemeanor. Again, pls check the records b4 rushing to take offence like some of the superbrains on this thread.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby arshyam » 25 Feb 2017 09:28

Some news reports for the record.

Good things happen in America, Indian engineer tells wife before death in Kansas shooting incident - TNIE
HOUSTON: The wife of Indian engineer Srinivas Kuchibhotla, who was shot dead in an apparent hate crime by a Navy veteran at a bar in Olathe city, has said that she had her doubts about staying in the US but was assured by her husband that "good things happen in America".

Speaking at a news conference organised by GPS-maker Garmin where Srinivas worked, Sunayana Dumala said reports of bias in the US make minorities afraid as she questioned "do we belong here". She said she now wonders what the US government will do to stop hate crimes against minorities.

Dumala said she was concerned about shootings incidents in America and had doubted whether they should stay in the country, but her husband said that assured her saying that "good things happen in America."

Consul General of India in Houston Anupam Ray is supervising the current situation and providing all possible help for the grieving family and the community in Olathe area of Kansas.

"Immediately when the incident occurred, Consulate rushed Deputy Consul R D Joshi and Vice Consul H Singh to Kansas to be with the family of Srinivas at this trying moment," Ray told PTI. Ever since, they have been with the family of Srinivas and have assured Sunayna of all possible support and help at this grieving moment, he said.

Consul Joshi also met the shocked and frightened Indian community in Olathe and Alok Madasani injured in the shooting on Wednesday night. Madasani is now stable and has been discharged from the hospital.

A third person, an American man identified as Ian Grillot, 24, who tried to intervene also received injuries in the firing at Austins Bar and Grill in Olathe in Kansas City in the US state of Missouri. A University of Kansas Hospital spokeswoman said he is in fair condition. The incident evoked outrage from in the US and India with External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj expressing shock over the incident. "I am shocked at the shooting incident in Kansas in which Srinivas Kuchibhotla has been killed. My heartfelt condolences to bereaved family," she said in a tweet yesterday.

The shooter, Adam Purinton, reportedly got into an argument with the victims in the terms of racism, and shouted "get out of my country", "terrorist" before shooting them. He reportedly provoked them into an argument asking about their presence and work in his country, and how they are better than him.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby arshyam » 25 Feb 2017 09:31

The Kansas killing has apparently brought out two different faces of America - TNIE
HYDERABAD: The Kansas shooting incident killing one Telugu engineer and injuring another, both from Hyderabad, has sent ripples across the Indian community in the United States.
While racist hate attacks are not new in that country, some from the Indian diaspora believe that accession of Donald Trump to the presidency has boosted the confidence of racist elements in society which might cause occurrence of such incidents.

It is well known that David Duke, former head of Ku Klux Klan and French far right Presidential candidate, Marine Le Pen are some of President Trump’s admirers, many of them point out.
Priya V, a Minnesota state resident says, “Donald Trump’s hasty comments and decisions are definitely provoking Americans to turn against immigrants. I am now living in Minneapolis. The city’s downtown has a lot of night clubs including gay clubs. I fear that these clubs might become a target anytime just like it happened in Orlando. I am avoiding such crowded places these days.”

She further said, “While such attacks have occurred earlier also, the present political atmosphere in the country is one which fortifies the confidence of people whose views are anti-immigrant.”
Unlike the Milpitas homicide incident in which an Indian student from Telangana was killed, the racial hate attack of Kansas, killing a Hyderabadi engineer and injuring another, garnered lot of buzz on social media.

Social media messages were directed at United States President Donald Trump for spreading xenophobia. Tweet by one Naveen from the US on the Kansas incident went, “Absolutely despicable! This is what happens when you normalize racism and hatred by calling it *political incorrectness*.”
Social media users also attacked Indians, NRIs and Hindu nationalist groups in India and the US who supported Donald Trump’s presidency.

Speaking to some Indians staying in the US revealed that not all are angry and afraid.
An engineer from Hyderabad working in Michigan said, “Such incidents have occurred during former President Barack Obama’s regime as well. There has always been an anti-immigration rhetoric in the US. Nothing new in it but just that it has been getting excessive media coverage now. There are some instances where people comment on the internet on immigrants, which is hurtful but such people are few. Nationalistic fervour is now running high across many countries in the world. At the end of day I am an immigrant and I have to respect laws of this country.”

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby arshyam » 25 Feb 2017 09:33

Today's Express (TNIE) paper made me think I was reading the NYT or WaPo about some incident that happened in India. Would say more, but won't out of respect to the departed.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Mort Walker » 25 Feb 2017 09:37

Rudradev wrote:Actually the incident is likely to have EXACTLY the opposite effect.

Desis in the US will stop trying to fit in or hang around where goras are (e.g. going to all-American bar and grill type joints, like the one where Srinivas got murdered).

Instead, they will respond to the perceived danger by ghetto-izing. By willingly contracting their social circles to interact only with those who are ethnically similar.

And many, many of them will seek and find common cause with fellow "browns", even if they are Pakis. They will prefer to spend their free time and money at Shaan's Biryani Corner where desi music is playing and desi flavours are in the air, than "Austin's" type places rife with the possibility of a white bigot shooting them.

End result, many more Indians in the US will transform into uber-liberal Democrats with a strong sense of identification with Muslim victimology. This will almost certainly end up having influence on their ideas about Islam in general, India-Pak relations, J&K etc.


You're really grasping at straws. In places like KC there aren't that many Briyani joints and Indians don't live or congregate in ghettos. There won't be identification with Muslim victimology as Indians will continue to be murdered by Muslims in India as well. After 9/11 and at the time of the Iranian hostage crisis of 1979-1981, Indians were on the short end of the stick because they look dark and foreign. This time we see it again.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Melwyn » 25 Feb 2017 10:23

The news of Indian engineer being killed has hardly got any coverage from bastions of left loonies like NYTimes, CNN and CBS. Compare it with the mass hysteria when Muslim Ban was in effect or illegal immigrants were being deported.

Heck compare it with the "xtians under attack" narrative peddled by our own MSM when Modi came to power in 2014.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Rudradev » 25 Feb 2017 10:35

You have to resort to arguments like "in places like KC there aren't that many Biryani joints", and I'M the one grasping at straws? :D

KC per se doesn't matter because the total number of Indians in places like KC is negligible. The effect of this incident will lead to greater ghetto-ization everywhere that there ARE significant Indian immigrant populations. And if you have ever been to a neighbourhood where Indians have their businesses clustered together... be it Devon St. or Oak Tree Road or Jackson Heights or Fremont... you will have seen that the Pakis and BDs are RIGHT there alongside with their businesses and eateries and mosques.

There is no question in my mind that such incidents will provoke a furious backlash amongst large sections of US based Indians against the Trump administration, and an identification of all those who have supported its political rise with the racist shooter in this case. Rightly or wrongly, that is what is happening right now. The emotional resonance of Srinivas' murder has gone far beyond the capacity of any reasoned political argument to mitigate.

The inescapable corollary is that more Indians will buy into the Dem's worldview simply as a result of fear and loathing against Trump and the sections of US population who support him. That worldview includes limitless apologism, endless latitude and infinite excuse-making for Islam and Islamism.

Given the current climate in the US, arguments about Muslims continuing to kill Hindus in India will mean precisely nothing to the vast majority of Desis in the US. That dynamic is completely abstracted by distance and time, and far removed from the everyday reality of the American Desi experience.

When confronted with the local, immediate spectre of (Hindu) brown guys being called "terrorists" and killed by a member of the American White Bigot Class, it becomes extraordinarily easy for most US Hindus to lay Hindu-Muslim animosity aside and, in fact, identify with brown Muslims who also claim to be persecuted as "terrorists" by the same White Bigot Class.

This in fact DID happen after 9/11. A sad irony... just as Pakistani terrorism against India was at its peak (Parliament Attack, Kaluchak etc.) the vast majority of ordinary, apolitical US desis were expressing solidarity with supposedly-victimized Muslims (a result, in part, of hatecrimes that victimized Sikhs).

Net net, this is just one more way in which the Trump phenomenon has proved detrimental to the consolidation of a global Hindu political identity.

You may not want to acknowledge that, but hey... Sean Spicer doesn't want to acknowledge that there is ANY element of racial hatred involved with the murder of Srinivas. Doesn't make it any less true :mrgreen:
Last edited by Rudradev on 25 Feb 2017 10:41, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby LokeshC » 25 Feb 2017 10:38

amitkv wrote:The news of Indian engineer being killed has hardly got any coverage from bastions of left loonies like NYTimes, CNN and CBS. Compare it with the mass hysteria when Muslim Ban was in effect or illegal immigrants were being deported.

Heck compare it with the "xtians under attack" narrative peddled by our own MSM when Modi came to power in 2014.


You have two choices in the hands of the massa, get treated by the liberal latent racists, or get treated by the right wing (mostly) open racists.

Pick your poison.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Lilo » 25 Feb 2017 12:13

Klan has deep roots in Kansas .East Kansas(Kansas city et al) being its birth place.
In the recent shooting of Indian Hindu techies in Kansas city, instead of an Indian specific org like HAF , massa leftie MSM parachuted CAIR (with its well established Kansas chapter) apparently to capitalize on the imminent outrage.

So now the incident is picturized as just another crime against a ME(probably muslim) brownie in massa mainstream consciousness and not specifically as a hate crime against Indian Hindus .

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby EswarPrakash » 25 Feb 2017 12:33

arshyam wrote:" At the end of day I am an immigrant and I have to respect laws of this country.”


The guy who said this: What a moron? What law was Srinivas not following when he was killed? Self loathing and a desire to justify everything in the US as good or maybe purchase bias (like one buys a TV and tries to justify that purchase by belittling other TVs) is just unbelievable in some desis in the US.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby amritk » 25 Feb 2017 12:37

Logical and almost inevitable, Rudradev.

Meanwhile, trouble even in the blue bubble of NorCal, where so many Indians live. Few know that Homeland Security has police powers within 100 mi of all US borders, which is where most of the population lives.
http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/02/23/santa-cruz-police-homeland-security-raids-immigration-status-not-gang-related/

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby LokeshC » 25 Feb 2017 12:42

100 mile within US borders is also a constitution free zone, you can be detained perpetually without any rights granted.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Singha » 25 Feb 2017 12:45

Way back in 1999 travelling in rental car northbound from san diego, border police had slowed traffic to 1 lane and were checking the look of occupants. They let us through without a search. Same thing southbound on i93 in new hampshire during franconia bike week in 2002. This time they wanted to see papers. We had none but car papers. Were let go with a warning to always keep copies with us.

Border police have their own military style logistics and a lot of teeth there. Not beholden to the local cops. They had setup a huge tent beside i93 with mushroom of radio antennas and tactical vehicles.

Any agency in massa has moved up the militarization scale by now. Pd have got lot of surplus army weapons too.

Intimidation is name of game.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Singha » 25 Feb 2017 12:53

I auppose pio might well advised to keep copy of eagle passport ready too

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby habal » 25 Feb 2017 13:06

I think each time USA launches an expeditionary force outside it's borders and manages to neutralize important non-western leaders like Saddam, Gaddaffi and the moves to capture territories like Syria, Iraq, Sudan, Somalia. then immidiately it is the outlier/hand-to-mouth whites in red states that get a boost, because it means that they have defeated another non-western symbol and they have that much more leverage against non-whites in USA, who have no one to stand up for them now.

If you think this is make-believe connection then check out how there is a spurt of white against non-white violence each time USA has a victory abroad. Even american white cops in poorer states feel that they can safely go after thr brown-blacks now that they have no icons on their side and all their proud symbols are destroyed. After Saddam was hanged, white cops in USA suddenly went on a rampage against blacks. These american whites are subconsciously making that connection that blacks-brown are safer to prey on after each symbolic victory. This time obviously they are linking Trump victory as a great defeat of non-whites.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby OmkarC » 25 Feb 2017 13:15

The loathing and hatred that even educated whites latently have for Indians comes out when they are drunk to the boot.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Singha » 25 Feb 2017 14:20

https://www.rt.com/usa/378565-cbp-jfk-flight-1583-ids/

travelers entering New York City after a cross-country flight were met by border agents who insisted everyone show them official identification. They were seeking to serve a deportation order on an illegal immigrant.
On Wednesday, Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) alerted Customs and Border Protection (CBP) at John F. Kennedy International Airport in New York City that an undocumented immigrant was suspected to be arriving on Delta flight 1583 from San Francisco.

CBP officers were at the gate to check every deplaning passenger's ID, until they identified the person ordered to be deported by an immigration judge.

Officials say the suspect, who was convicted for domestic assault, driving while impaired, and violating an order of protection, was not found on the plane.

Image

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Singha » 25 Feb 2017 14:33

WASHINGTON, UNITED STATES: Son of boxing legend Muhammad Ali was held for questioning for two hours at a Florida airport upon returning from Jamaica because of his Arabic-sounding name, US media reported late on Friday.

Muhammad Ali Junior, 44, who was born in Philadelphia and has a US passport, was traveling with his mother Khalilah Camacho-Ali, the late sports icon's second wife, friend and lawyer Chris Mancini told the Louisville Courier-Journal.

The lawyer told the newspaper that both were held for questioning on the Fort Lauderdale International Airport on February 7 because of their Arabic-sounding names.

Ms Camacho-Ali, however, was released after she showed US Customs agents a photo of herself with her ex-husband.

Mr Ali Jr. however had no such photo, and according to the lawyer was held for nearly two hours and repeatedly asked, "Where did you get your name from?" and "Are you Muslim?"

When he said that he, like his father, was a Muslim, the agents asked further probing questions.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Primus » 25 Feb 2017 18:12

Singha wrote:I auppose pio might well advised to keep copy of eagle passport ready too



I don't know about the passport but GC holders are actually required by law to keep a copy of the card on their person at all times. I used to carry a copy of it in my wallet for years (even though a photocopy is supposedly not acceptable).

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby UlanBatori » 25 Feb 2017 18:13

Consulate rushed Deputy Consul xxxxxx and Vice Consul yyyyy to Timbuctoo. IQ of two towns went up simultaneously as a result


After doing all sashtang pranam for PC-ness, let me carefully and respectfully point out one big issue with Indian representation abroad. There is a reason why they usually have to send TWO Deputy CGIs. It is very simple, and as everyone knows, we Ulan Batoris are always Positively Nuance.

One of them is excellent, competent, literate, energetic, actually believes in doing a days work for a day's pay.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby UlanBatori » 25 Feb 2017 18:20

Singha wrote:I auppose pio might well advised to keep copy of eagle passport ready too


Hmm! Back in 2013 my Evil 6th cousin had to drive across, returning from Dera Mullah Diego Khan to Dera Feenix Khan. Road runs fairly close to border. Stopped on Hwy and asked to see ID (E6C don't recall if they actually asked to see passport, but he probably had it in his Bak Pak). BTW, I think the info for that state/that road actually says that one better carry passport. Also asked when became citjen and where. So yes, anywhere in southern state, northern states, western stages and eastern states, good idea to have documents. Remember, Arizona has strange laws, so one is always advised to carry passport entering Arizona. GS-holders are actually SUPPOSED by law to carry documents (just like phoriners in desh), but it is rather silly to carry ORIGINAL GC with one all the time - if one loses that it can be a nightmare to get a new one, given the pakiness of CIS. But at least copies, so that number, dates, mugshot etc can be seen immediately. Carry copies. Plus phone number of a good immigration lawyer.

In central states, maybe helmet and Kevlar vest given current news.
Last edited by UlanBatori on 25 Feb 2017 18:46, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby chola » 25 Feb 2017 18:35

For every tech engineer murdered by a white racist, there are scores if not hundreds of desi shopkeepers, taxi drivers, gas station operators and other small business owners/workers murdered by black and hispanic criminals over the years.

And half of the racist attacks are because some white idiot bigot mistake us for some f--king muslim. Still feel safer in the US than the Gulf States where thousands die from mistreatment with nary a news story.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby TSJones » 25 Feb 2017 18:58

UlanBatori wrote:
I'll say it again, if the crime that recently occurred in kansas had occurred in texas a death penalty would probably result.
the underhand shot at texas by the mongol was undeserved.


With deepest apologies to TSJi for the perceived slight to Texas, the Kansas killer does not qualify for the generously applied death penalty in Texas. The killer's race is severely discriminated against when it comes to being selected for execution. Pls check the statistics.

And this idiot is a Navy veteran. No way are they going to fry a Navy veteran "simply" for murdering an Asian in a bar brawl. In New Jersey this would be a misdemeanor. Again, pls check the records b4 rushing to take offence like some of the superbrains on this thread.


Texas faces of death row

https://apps.texastribune.org/death-row/

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby UlanBatori » 25 Feb 2017 19:18

I thought you might say that - I haven't looked at the link you posted (not my favorite activity, looking at murderers' mugshots). But I am guessing that it will say that 225 of those on Death Row are white vs. only 224.999 black. Clincher! Except that the Texas population is majority white, and about 30% or less black. Not that one should UNIFORMLY pick people to be executed to match demographic proportions, but it does appear likely that juries (and judges) are majority white, and tend not to send whites to the early Houristan option as readily as they send blacks. Watching Boston Legal these days....

Again, my point is not really that white people are not executed in Texas, but that a white Navy veteran is not likely to be executed for killing a non-white. Watch 'em wrap the murderer in Old Glory. Who knows, he may also be Bawn Agin. Any defense lawyer who can't get him off a death sentence or even life in prison, should be disbarred.

Added later: This sh1t is only age 51? I don't think ppl look their best when arrested for murder, but he looks about 85.
Last edited by UlanBatori on 25 Feb 2017 19:33, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby komal » 25 Feb 2017 19:27

Foreign delegations often visit the Cook County Jail. It is supposed to a a model correctional facility as well as a holding place for those who would be called 'undertrials' in India.

The delegations are given a tour of the cell blocks, allowed to meet with prisoners, etc.

The first question from most delegations is "Where do you keep the white inmates"


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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby A_Gupta » 25 Feb 2017 20:05

chola wrote:For every tech engineer murdered by a white racist, there are scores if not hundreds of desi shopkeepers, taxi drivers, gas station operators and other small business owners/workers murdered by black and hispanic criminals over the years.


And that is why we shouldn't worry about terrorism in India, because regular criminals, political criminals, etc., kill so many more Indians than terrorists do. Heck, even drunk drivers kill more Indians than terrorists do. Yet BRF has thread after thread devoted to terrorism, I wonder why.

Hint: for some stupid reason, we tend to think that the motive/intent matters.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Primus » 25 Feb 2017 20:17



"American History X" anyone?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby LokeshC » 25 Feb 2017 20:21

OmkarC wrote:The loathing and hatred that even educated whites latently have for Indians comes out when they are drunk to the boot.


Indeed.

In one of my old companies there were rumors of layoffs and thanks to that I got to understand where I stood with my coworkers. After a few of them got drunk at a nearby sports bar they started on a rather loud discussion along expected lines.

One of those "OMG" moments. After that day the feeling was :- "I work with these jackasses who spit on me behind my back????!!!!!!"

When the going gets tough, we need a scapegoat :- and that is someone who is unlike us (zee brown / black guy usually)
Last edited by LokeshC on 25 Feb 2017 20:24, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Lalmohan » 25 Feb 2017 20:22

disha wrote:I hope at least those Desis facing discrimination because they look like Middle-Easterners ...


and you think that the gora, even an educated gora, can actually tell the difference?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Primus » 25 Feb 2017 20:40

A_Gupta wrote:
chola wrote:For every tech engineer murdered by a white racist, there are scores if not hundreds of desi shopkeepers, taxi drivers, gas station operators and other small business owners/workers murdered by black and hispanic criminals over the years.


And that is why we shouldn't worry about terrorism in India, because regular criminals, political criminals, etc., kill so many more Indians than terrorists do. Heck, even drunk drivers kill more Indians than terrorists do. Yet BRF has thread after thread devoted to terrorism, I wonder why.

Hint: for some stupid reason, we tend to think that the motive/intent matters.


Wariness of people who are 'different' from us is hard-wired into the human brain, no getting away from it. It is societal and other restraints, often self-imposed that prevent people from acting out their impulses.

People confuse racism with prejudice. Everyone is prejudiced, heck there is even a museum dedicated to how intolerant our society is - but of course detractors will complain it is a Jewish mouthpiece.

Racism is when the Redneck believes he belongs to a unique and exclusive club of superior beings - in the immortal words of Thurgood Marshall 'I can't read, I can't write, but I'm better than a nigger because I am white'. Prejudice is when desis believe all Blacks are criminals.

The tragedy is that the desis killed by Black/Latino criminals (for that's all they were) were killed because they got in the way of a crime in progress and so their race/religion was not in the equation at all; OTOH, the people of color killed by trigger-happy White yahoos were killed precisely because they were not White.

That is the difference folks.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby KJo » 25 Feb 2017 20:42

LokeshC wrote:
OmkarC wrote:The loathing and hatred that even educated whites latently have for Indians comes out when they are drunk to the boot.


Indeed.

In one of my old companies there were rumors of layoffs and thanks to that I got to understand where I stood with my coworkers. After a few of them got drunk at a nearby sports bar they started on a rather loud discussion along expected lines.

One of those "OMG" moments. After that day the feeling was :- "I work with these jackasses who spit on me behind my back????!!!!!!"

When the going gets tough, we need a scapegoat :- and that is someone who is unlike us (zee brown / black guy usually)


Well, I think they all loath each other. Whites don't usually have the kind of feelings that desis have. It shows up in their personal lives also.

1. The ex-CEO of a previous company of mine just died in an accident. I texted my former manager asking for reference and mentioned this because I just heard it. She said yes, too bad, and then immediately moved on to other topics. Not a moment to talk about the man who promoted her, gave her raises etc.
2. Our EVP in the same company promoted all these goras way about their skill level. The desis (me included) he did not but said he will. Then layoffs hit and re-org and the EVP's was moved from Product to Development head. The goras he earlier promoted started backstabbing him and eventually got him fired to save their own asses.
3. In almost all companies I have been in, when a person (higher up) is there, they kiss his ass, and when they leave, they talk crap about him and how he was incompetent.
I don't trust most of them.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Mort Walker » 25 Feb 2017 21:00

Rudradev wrote:You have to resort to arguments like "in places like KC there aren't that many Biryani joints", and I'M the one grasping at straws? :D

KC per se doesn't matter because the total number of Indians in places like KC is negligible. The effect of this incident will lead to greater ghetto-ization everywhere that there ARE significant Indian immigrant populations. And if you have ever been to a neighbourhood where Indians have their businesses clustered together... be it Devon St. or Oak Tree Road or Jackson Heights or Fremont... you will have seen that the Pakis and BDs are RIGHT there alongside with their businesses and eateries and mosques.

There is no question in my mind that such incidents will provoke a furious backlash amongst large sections of US based Indians against the Trump administration, and an identification of all those who have supported its political rise with the racist shooter in this case. Rightly or wrongly, that is what is happening right now. The emotional resonance of Srinivas' murder has gone far beyond the capacity of any reasoned political argument to mitigate.

The inescapable corollary is that more Indians will buy into the Dem's worldview simply as a result of fear and loathing against Trump and the sections of US population who support him. That worldview includes limitless apologism, endless latitude and infinite excuse-making for Islam and Islamism.

Given the current climate in the US, arguments about Muslims continuing to kill Hindus in India will mean precisely nothing to the vast majority of Desis in the US. That dynamic is completely abstracted by distance and time, and far removed from the everyday reality of the American Desi experience.

When confronted with the local, immediate spectre of (Hindu) brown guys being called "terrorists" and killed by a member of the American White Bigot Class, it becomes extraordinarily easy for most US Hindus to lay Hindu-Muslim animosity aside and, in fact, identify with brown Muslims who also claim to be persecuted as "terrorists" by the same White Bigot Class.

This in fact DID happen after 9/11. A sad irony... just as Pakistani terrorism against India was at its peak (Parliament Attack, Kaluchak etc.) the vast majority of ordinary, apolitical US desis were expressing solidarity with supposedly-victimized Muslims (a result, in part, of hatecrimes that victimized Sikhs).

Net net, this is just one more way in which the Trump phenomenon has proved detrimental to the consolidation of a global Hindu political identity.

You may not want to acknowledge that, but hey... Sean Spicer doesn't want to acknowledge that there is ANY element of racial hatred involved with the murder of Srinivas. Doesn't make it any less true :mrgreen:


There is no corollary to what I said from Spicer.
Yes. There will be fear among Indians, but to say they will associate or sympathize more with Muslims from the subcontinent is an unfounded extrapolation. If anything Indians will stay home and double down on work and education.

Let's see if the US DoJ prosecutes this as a hate crime. That will be the real test of this administration.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby chanakyaa » 25 Feb 2017 21:30

International Students in U.S. Top One Million for the First Time (25% growth from India)
New York, NY—An increasing number of students are crossing the globe to gain practical, international experience that they can apply in their careers and life in a global society.

According to the 2016 Open Doors Report on International Educational Exchange data released today by the Institute of International Education (IIE) in partnership with the U.S. Department of State's Bureau of Educational and Cultural Affairs, the number of international students at U.S. colleges and universities surpassed one million for the first time during the 2015-16 academic year—an increase of seven percent from the previous year to a new high of nearly 1,044,000, representing five percent of the total student population at U.S. institutions. More than a third of these international students studied engineering, math or computer science, and 14 percent engaged in Optional Practical Training (OPT), including many in science, technology, engineering or math (STEM) professions. The growth in international STEM students is likely connected to the 25 percent increase in students from India, more than three quarters of who study in these fields.

Open Doors also reports that more than 313,000 U.S. students received credit last year for study abroad during 2014-15, an increase of nearly three percent over the previous year. Approximately a quarter of these students majored in STEM fields. The Open Doors findings reflect that students study abroad in part to gain international experience that can be applied in their careers, and data also show that an increasing number of U.S. students—over 22,000 in 2014-15—participated in non-credit work, internships and volunteering abroad through which they can gain practical skills.

“We need to empower more of America’s future leaders to experience the world beyond our borders,” said Evan Ryan, Assistant Secretary of State for Educational and Cultural Affairs at the U.S. Department of State. “International education helps people develop the knowledge and skills needed to succeed in today’s global economy, and creates networks across borders that improve international understanding and strengthen the national security of the United States.”

“The Open Doors findings show that international students value the quality, diversity and strong reputation of U.S. institutions and recognize that these institutions will give them opportunities that can help them not only in their education but also in their careers,” said IIE President Allan Goodman. “At the Institute of International Education, we believe American colleges and universities offer a premiere education and valuable training to students from around the globe and that students from other nations also teach us a lot about the world we share. The more we can open doors to other cultures for our students, the better off our country and our world will be.”

Despite the overall rise in the international student population in the U.S. and the shrinking gender gap over the past few decades, Open Doors shows that the gender gap among international students has widened slightly over the past two years: only 43 percent of students who came to the U.S. to study during the 2015-16 academic year were women, down from 45 percent five years ago, likely because fewer women tend to study in STEM fields worldwide.

For the U.S. students studying abroad, women continue to make up 67 percent of the study abroad population. The racial and ethnic diversity has improved modestly each year since 2004-05, with 27 percent of U.S. students who studied abroad in 2014-15 identified as racial or ethnic minorities, up from 17 percent a decade ago. Open Doors reports that about 5 percent of those who studied abroad were people with disabilities.

“Studying abroad is one of the best ways to prepare to enter and succeed in the interconnected, globalized workforce, yet 90 percent of American college students do not study or intern outside of the United States. We owe it to the next generation of Americans to find ways to make it more accessible to a wider range of students,” said IIE’s President, Dr. Allan E. Goodman. “Some U.S. students studying in STEM fields had found it challenging to study abroad. But this is changing, and global experience is increasingly crucial to success in all fields.”

Europe continues to host more than half of all for U.S. students going abroad, with about a third of all U.S. students choosing the United Kingdom, Italy, or Spain in the 2014-15 academic year. However, students were increasingly drawn to countries that offer an up-close look at how our world is changing, such as Cuba and Mexico, as well as Greece, which experienced the highest rate of growth among top study abroad destinations with an 18 percent increase. Open Doors data indicate the Ebola crisis likely deterred U.S. students from traveling to sub-Saharan Africa, as the number of U.S. students in that region fell by 20 percent.

Other key findings from the Open Doors data include the following:

While students from China and India remained the leading countries of origin and accounted for 84 percent of the growth in international students in 2015-16, Saudi Arabia’s government-sponsored international scholarship program helped drive that country to surpass South Korea to become the third largest sender of international students to the United States.


If each student take approx. $2,500 in student loan, that equates to approx. $2.6 billion in loan growth in US banks and $100 million in interest income each year, and not counting demand for more private universities. Now imagine what happens if these students see no hope of their F-1/J-1 visa converting to H1B or some equivalent for job.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Karthik S » 25 Feb 2017 21:41

chanakyaa wrote:International Students in U.S. Top One Million for the First Time (25% growth from India)
New York, NY—An increasing number of students are crossing the globe to gain practical, international experience that they can apply in their careers and life in a global society.

According to the 2016 Open Doors Report on International Educational Exchange data released today by the Institute of International Education (IIE) in partnership with the U.S. Department of State's Bureau of Educational and Cultural Affairs, the number of international students at U.S. colleges and universities surpassed one million for the first time during the 2015-16 academic year—an increase of seven percent from the previous year to a new high of nearly 1,044,000, representing five percent of the total student population at U.S. institutions. More than a third of these international students studied engineering, math or computer science, and 14 percent engaged in Optional Practical Training (OPT), including many in science, technology, engineering or math (STEM) professions. The growth in international STEM students is likely connected to the 25 percent increase in students from India, more than three quarters of who study in these fields.

Open Doors also reports that more than 313,000 U.S. students received credit last year for study abroad during 2014-15, an increase of nearly three percent over the previous year. Approximately a quarter of these students majored in STEM fields. The Open Doors findings reflect that students study abroad in part to gain international experience that can be applied in their careers, and data also show that an increasing number of U.S. students—over 22,000 in 2014-15—participated in non-credit work, internships and volunteering abroad through which they can gain practical skills.

“We need to empower more of America’s future leaders to experience the world beyond our borders,” said Evan Ryan, Assistant Secretary of State for Educational and Cultural Affairs at the U.S. Department of State. “International education helps people develop the knowledge and skills needed to succeed in today’s global economy, and creates networks across borders that improve international understanding and strengthen the national security of the United States.”

“The Open Doors findings show that international students value the quality, diversity and strong reputation of U.S. institutions and recognize that these institutions will give them opportunities that can help them not only in their education but also in their careers,” said IIE President Allan Goodman. “At the Institute of International Education, we believe American colleges and universities offer a premiere education and valuable training to students from around the globe and that students from other nations also teach us a lot about the world we share. The more we can open doors to other cultures for our students, the better off our country and our world will be.”

Despite the overall rise in the international student population in the U.S. and the shrinking gender gap over the past few decades, Open Doors shows that the gender gap among international students has widened slightly over the past two years: only 43 percent of students who came to the U.S. to study during the 2015-16 academic year were women, down from 45 percent five years ago, likely because fewer women tend to study in STEM fields worldwide.

For the U.S. students studying abroad, women continue to make up 67 percent of the study abroad population. The racial and ethnic diversity has improved modestly each year since 2004-05, with 27 percent of U.S. students who studied abroad in 2014-15 identified as racial or ethnic minorities, up from 17 percent a decade ago. Open Doors reports that about 5 percent of those who studied abroad were people with disabilities.

“Studying abroad is one of the best ways to prepare to enter and succeed in the interconnected, globalized workforce, yet 90 percent of American college students do not study or intern outside of the United States. We owe it to the next generation of Americans to find ways to make it more accessible to a wider range of students,” said IIE’s President, Dr. Allan E. Goodman. “Some U.S. students studying in STEM fields had found it challenging to study abroad. But this is changing, and global experience is increasingly crucial to success in all fields.”

Europe continues to host more than half of all for U.S. students going abroad, with about a third of all U.S. students choosing the United Kingdom, Italy, or Spain in the 2014-15 academic year. However, students were increasingly drawn to countries that offer an up-close look at how our world is changing, such as Cuba and Mexico, as well as Greece, which experienced the highest rate of growth among top study abroad destinations with an 18 percent increase. Open Doors data indicate the Ebola crisis likely deterred U.S. students from traveling to sub-Saharan Africa, as the number of U.S. students in that region fell by 20 percent.

Other key findings from the Open Doors data include the following:

While students from China and India remained the leading countries of origin and accounted for 84 percent of the growth in international students in 2015-16, Saudi Arabia’s government-sponsored international scholarship program helped drive that country to surpass South Korea to become the third largest sender of international students to the United States.


If each student take approx. $2,500 in student loan, that equates to approx. $2.6 billion in loan growth in US banks and $100 million in interest income each year, and not counting demand for more private universities. Now imagine what happens if these students see no hope of their F-1/J-1 visa converting to H1B or some equivalent for job.


Saw a news program wherein it was mentioned international students bring in $30B to university system.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby chanakyaa » 25 Feb 2017 21:53

disha wrote:...
Also just to let you know, the gates foundation shut shop in India. Can you guess why?

Have you heard of the Tuskegee experiment? What do you think should be done to the perpetrators of that experiment?


Interesting. Following is an old story but missed completely. If you have young children in the US, very likely your doctor recommended HPV (Human Papillomavirus) Vaccine at some stage.

Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation -- Merck's Illegal Gardasil Cervical Cancer Vaccine Trial in India and Death of Young Children
Judges in India's Supreme Court have demanded answers after children died during a controversial cervical cancer vaccine trial.
Young tribal girls received shots of pharmaceutical company Merck's Gardasil vaccine and Cervarix, manufactured by GlaxoSmithKline.
The vaccines are given to girls as young as nine in many countries - including the UK and the US - to protect against the human papilloma virus, one of the major causes of cervical cancer.
But the Indian court yesterday heard a challenge by campaigners who claim the study - funded by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation - failed to obtain the informed consent of the children or their parents.
They say that a 'study' carried out for the foundation by a US organisation was in fact an illegal drugs trial.
...
Gardasil 9, which is expected to be worth £1.2 billion a year in sales, has already been approved for use in the US and could be available in the UK later in the year.


Wonder how many such things are going on today under the radar, away from public eye. Now it makes sense why dramebazies like Ebola and other media sponsored controversies were created. It is very likely that such illegal trials are now being carried out in Africa. In the western countries it may take anywhere from 8 -15 years to carry out various stages of clinical trials before drugs are officially approved.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Rudradev » 25 Feb 2017 22:18

chola wrote:For every tech engineer murdered by a white racist, there are scores if not hundreds of desi shopkeepers, taxi drivers, gas station operators and other small business owners/workers murdered by black and hispanic criminals over the years.

Thanks, Captain Obvious. Brilliant job missing the point as usual.

In fact, a comparison of numerical body counts by race of attacker is entirely meaningless because the emotional resonance of circumstantial killings... the vast majority of those involving non-white perpetrators... is invariably tempered by the circumstances involved. It can be summarized as: "very sad that a life was lost, how unfortunate that he/she had to operate a gas station or a cab in a neighbourhood where so many such things happen." The exigency of a robbery going wrong is almost assumed as a sort of force majeure in certain conditions.

The outrage experienced is negligible compared to that when deliberate, racially motivated murder of an Indian takes place: one which isn't attributable to any other exigency.

There was no need whatsoever for Purinton to have engaged with or shot those two Indians... no mugging, no carjacking, no uncooperative response to a holdup.

There is only one explanation, and it's inescapable: the overwhelming racial antagonism and religio-cultural hatred of White Americans for brown Indians. Combined with a socio-economic grievance born of knowing that they, and their children, must actually compete with the likes of us on an even playing field. This may seldom come out of the barrel of a gun, but there is NO Desi in the US who hasn't experienced it, in glances, in tones of voice, in social settings, in the professional world (where decisions get taken that sideline us, and for which a false consensus based on some other, inadequate, but non-race-based explanation is invariably manufactured).

We know what the truth is. It matters not at all that there was only one Adam Purinton this month, and maybe five or more Miguels or Tyreses who attacked Indians in mugging attempts somewhere else. Purinton is the one who matters. The Western MSM will unite to portray him as a lone anomaly, a singularly unhinged fanatic. But in our bones, we Desis know that Putinton is only an active demonstrator of what the entire White Bigot Class, deep down inside, really thinks. We recognize him as the tip of an iceberg of white hatred and resentment that happened to break the surface this month. And we know the rest of the iceberg lurks in wait.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Primus » 25 Feb 2017 22:20

disha wrote:
TSJones wrote:oh yeah, the guy and his two sons deserved it while sleeping in their car.

forced conversions while his two young children were with him.


TSJones., the aussie was more into 'forceful' conversions and not just forced conversions. If you get my drift. If not you can ask several of the Vatican Bishops or cardinals who have love issues with underage kids. Now do you support such exploitative charlatans?

Also just to let you know, the gates foundation shut shop in India. Can you guess why?

Have you heard of the Tuskegee experiment? What do you think should be done to the perpetrators of that experiment?


The typical Yahoo will defend their abysmal record on human rights around the world by presenting you with a straw man, with obfuscation and with the usual rhetoric. The truth is that the White man has nothing but squatter's rights on the lands which he has occupied, enforced with brutality, with enslavement of one people and near-extermination of another. He has no arguments and no defense because it is indefensible and yet you will hear the usual fly-open/shirt-torn false equivalence.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Suresh S » 25 Feb 2017 22:44

RD no need for me to comment. Mere muhn se word chura liye. Good analysis.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Arjun » 25 Feb 2017 22:50

chola wrote:For every tech engineer murdered by a white racist, there are scores if not hundreds of desi shopkeepers, taxi drivers, gas station operators and other small business owners/workers murdered by black and hispanic criminals over the years.

And half of the racist attacks are because some white idiot bigot mistake us for some f--king muslim. Still feel safer in the US than the Gulf States where thousands die from mistreatment with nary a news story.

The dotbuster gang in NJ in late eighties was Hispanic if I am not wrong...

Also this hate attack that resulted in death of an Indian man was committed by a Hispanic: https://www.rt.com/usa/new-york-man-train-145/


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