India-US relations: News and Discussions III

habal · Post by **habal** » 06 Mar 2017 11:12

USA is a country full of fortune seekers, except for native american tribes, everyone else is basically immigrants who arrived to take a chance at hitting their pot of gold. So a fortune seeker while seeking a fortune himself also seeks to deny others their fortune so that he can maximise his bounty. This is the nature of treasure hunters. Once Indians are in this pool, they have to do what it takes to keep their fortunes. Else there will be many thieves and many who beget others fortune and law will not come to help either.

Indians should understand that the white man even when pretending to be sympathetic may have an agenda, so always double check and trust none. I have come across sinister posts on RW forums of USA that some white (anglo-american) folks are trying to instil a sense of fear in Indians by constantly feeding them bad news drip-by-drip. They already know that Indians scare easily. There needs to be a comprehensive strategy to fight this low-level racism and stop being easy targets. Walk around with body cams and hit perp before he hits. Do something, make a start.

OmkarC · Post by **OmkarC** » 06 Mar 2017 11:20

^^ they dont have to try hard to feed us bad news, its trickling all over. But agree w/ you that we shouldnt be spooked over attacks and fight back.

OmkarC · Post by **OmkarC** » 06 Mar 2017 11:32

Can HAF sue that SAITJ guy who posted pictures of Indian children & elderly playing in a Columbus park for invasion of privacy ? Is that even legal ? These guys need to be taken to task if they start attacking children. That hate website of SAITJ is also mocking the Kansas shootings as "Indian over-reaction" to some shootings. Racist sub-human ba$turds.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 06 Mar 2017 11:48

Yagnasri wrote:They say that DT is to blame. He may well be. But his voters/supporters did not become racists overnight. There are always there. It is the same voters that voted for Obomber.

Not the same voters. Both Republicans and Democrats overwhelmingly vote on party lines, by over 90%.
There is only a small overlap, generally these voters identify themselves as independents and are the swing voters in the swing states.

Roughly 4 million Obomber voters did not show up to vote for Hillary ( I might add due to complacency and laziness) .

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 06 Mar 2017 13:40

Steve Bannon - Most powerful man in Washington

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 06 Mar 2017 14:35

Mark Levin PROVES Obama Wiretapping on President Donald Trump

darshan · Post by **darshan** » 06 Mar 2017 17:39

If Trump's supporters wanted brown people dead then many of my family would have been long ago. They didn't need to wait for Trump to arrive. There are places in LA, AL, etc. where authorities would not even pretend to find a brown guy if disappeared. Let's not pretend that white Democrats are some what superior to recognizing fifty shades of brown. They would be more than happy to put you in jail legally for shoplifting or violating some rule or regulation and also discuss oppression of Muslims in Kashmir with you. However, California/NJ desis are more than welcome to join MSM and paint target on other desis in so called Trump states that point the guns towards them that they have been avoiding for long. Parallels to Jewish people continue. You don't want to be collateral damage to fight between Democrats and Republicans.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 06 Mar 2017 17:51

As I posted before, people in the West do not turn racists overnight. Winston Churchill and his kind are always there. We need not forget Dems were great racists earlier. So called Liberal have no problem when Obomber killed women and children in their dozens using drones. We are going totally out of OT here.

With India refusing to attend OROB meeting, we are almost committed to staying out of the China gang. Since China is either with me or against me type nation, we are now against them more openly. While it may not make any great difference in middle kingdom's treatment of our nation and its interest, it gives a signal to nations like the US. Interesting to see what Trumpazee does. There are no great hopes on him anyway.

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 06 Mar 2017 18:42

Arjun wrote: Ok, if we assume that there is an increase in killers targeting visibly brown and relatively well-off Asians - then random acts will likely yield mostly Indian American victims. Other communities are either not visibly brown, or not Asian looking, or not in sufficient demographics in the US or not as well-off as Indians.

At the end of the day after all the cursory, obligatory expression of profound sadness by the establishment, there is one element that will be missing in contrast to other groups by the powers that are.

For example, can one expect Garmin CEO to announce that beyond sadness and grief at the loss of an employee, that the position will be filled by another competent desi to drive home the point that they actually mean what they say when it comes to platitudes of diversity and openness? Also, what would be reaction by other workers and outsiders to that announcement? Well, that in and of itself will prove how much of closet racism and xenophobia that prevails towards desis will be apparent.

Contrast that, to
announcement by NASA administrator (Charles Bolden?) during Obama administration that one of the chief goals of NASA is to "highlight the aspects of Islamic contribution to science".

There is a huge power struggle going on and desis are despised by entrenched overtly as well as covertly. Most of financial sector, and media is completely under control,but is being threatened. The power dynamics due to economic well being, is driven by technology and that is largely not controlled by the entrenched group. This is cause for angst among the entrenched. The muslims are well integrated into power dynamics of one party and subservient to the entrenched groups interests. On republican side too the entrenched groups interests are largely intact. This cozy relationship is being challenged.

While white islamists are tolerated, it is racial superiority that matters at the end of the day. Even Boston bomber, in the psyche of US, at the end of the day gets a more sympathetic view because of skin color. Racism is present to the advantage of entrenched, and control the outcome. This control is now slipping, and democrats have a way to deal with that and republicans are also trying to do that.

Bottomline, more derision is reserved for skin color, than an islamist or an islamist apologist of white color, across white dominated countries from Europe to US.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 06 Mar 2017 18:44

Austin wrote:Mark Levin PROVES Obama Wiretapping on President Donald Trump

oh, he PROVED it. Phew..I thought Obama would get away with this sort of illegal abuse of power and unconstitutional acts etc ...*lock him up* *lock him up*...

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Mar 2017 19:16

the intolerance continues...two PIO men get abused and heckled in new zealand

http://www.news18.com/news/world/indian ... 56851.html

GShankar · Post by **GShankar** » 06 Mar 2017 19:41

Yagnasri wrote:As I posted before, people in the West do not turn racists overnight. Winston Churchill and his kind are always there. We need not forget Dems were great racists earlier. So called Liberal have no problem when Obomber killed women and children in their dozens using drones. We are going totally out of OT here.

With India refusing to attend OROB meeting, we are almost committed to staying out of the China gang. Since China is either with me or against me type nation, we are now against them more openly. While it may not make any great difference in middle kingdom's treatment of our nation and its interest, it gives a signal to nations like the US. Interesting to see what Trumpazee does. There are no great hopes on him anyway.

From our anti-obor stand, we knowingly or unknowingly have given a card to massa to play with china.

And from what I have seen so far in DTA, Mattis (also) seems to have some influence or say freedom in his field. He operates like an independent operator and brings DT onboard. So GoI could build better defense relationships through DSOTUS.

But haven't seen anything about Tillerson w.r.t him being an independent operator.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 06 Mar 2017 20:01

Opinion piece:
http://blogs.cfr.org/asia/2017/03/04/ka ... -view-u-s/
The Kansas City Shooting Is Quickly Changing How Indians View The U.S.

Has any cold-blooded murderer ever before scoped out targets by asking about their visa status? In Kansas City, Adam Purinton did just that, asking Kuchibhotla and Madasani what type of visa they held before later yelling at them to “get out of my country.” The two were both legally employed in the United States, had studied in American universities, and should have been seen as law-abiding, productive contributors to the American economy and American life.

The changed perception of the United States is even more significant coming from residents of Hyderabad. The city has long sent many of its youth to the United States for higher education as well as employment, disproportionately so compared with other parts of India. In a speech delivered in Hyderabad in July 2016, former U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for Consular Affairs Michele Bond stated that the fifth-highest number of student visas for the United States worldwide were issued in Hyderabad. Within India, it topped the list.

The city on its own accounted for around fifteen percent of the H-1B visas issued in India last fiscal year, according to the San Francisco Chronicle. Hyderabadis are so focused on going abroad that their city even has a temple devoted to Balaji, the Hindu god of visas.

But the Kansas City shooting has ruptured the Hyderabadi American dream. During Mr. Kuchibhotla’s funeral in Hyderabad, some attendees showed up with signs saying “#Down With Trump” and “#Down With Racism.” It’s a far cry from the eagerness only recently felt for the United States. In fact, as I flew from Hyderabad to Delhi on my way home the same night Indian papers were filled with details of the Kansas City attack, a young man seated in my row heard that I was from the United States. He turned to me and asked, “Is it true what they are saying about America now with Trump?”

I wished I could say that it weren’t.

komal · Post by **komal** » 06 Mar 2017 20:07

Yagnasri wrote:As I posted before, people in the West do not turn racists overnight. Winston Churchill and his kind are always there. We need not forget Dems were great racists earlier. So called Liberal have no problem when Obomber killed women and children in their dozens using drones. We are going totally out of OT here.

With India refusing to attend OROB meeting, we are almost committed to staying out of the China gang. Since China is either with me or against me type nation, we are now against them more openly. While it may not make any great difference in middle kingdom's treatment of our nation and its interest, it gives a signal to nations like the US. Interesting to see what Trumpazee does. There are no great hopes on him anyway.

Winston Churchill is revered by the GOP. Almost a form of idol worship with regard to his statues.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 06 Mar 2017 21:08

komal wrote: Winston Churchill is revered by the GOP. Almost a form of idol worship with regard to his statues.

There was a lot of wailing when ombaba moved his bust out of oval office to someplace else. Trump moved it back on day one or something..

kiranA · Post by **kiranA** » 06 Mar 2017 21:19

darshan wrote:If Trump's supporters wanted brown people dead then many of my family would have been long ago. They didn't need to wait for Trump to arrive. There are places in LA, AL, etc. where authorities would not even pretend to find a brown guy if disappeared. Let's not pretend that white Democrats are some what superior to recognizing fifty shades of brown. They would be more than happy to put you in jail legally for shoplifting or violating some rule or regulation and also discuss oppression of Muslims in Kashmir with you. However, California/NJ desis are more than welcome to join MSM and paint target on other desis in so called Trump states that point the guns towards them that they have been avoiding for long. Parallels to Jewish people continue. You don't want to be collateral damage to fight between Democrats and Republicans.

This is truly tragic. If young indian american chooses to work for democratic party or young indian slogs off for american corporate on h1 means a target is painted on an indian doctor working for years in alabama ? Are Indians meant to constantly feel guilty because someone unrelated to them aspire for something legitmate and legal but not favoured by their local neighborhood ? This is unbeleivable I heard of racism but not this bad. I can atleast understand if indians are indulging in crime but this ?

Darshan, UB, Ramana et el. Please understand we cant control the narrative of Indian community by asking some american girl of indian origin not to support for an american party or asking an indian boy to kill his aspiration for job in USA so already established indians can feel safe in their neighbourhood. They are legitimate aspirations.

GShankar · Post by **GShankar** » 06 Mar 2017 21:28

^^ Indians don't seem to be feeling guilty. They seem to be feeling fear especially when situations are like this.

I had a conversation with a neighboring businessman (gujju uncle operating a gas station) - he told me that within his community/group they have all decided to lay low and try to run from any confrontational situations if they arise either in his business or anywhere else until things improve.

For a moment I thought, typical sdre mentality. But then he feels that is the best decision for him and his family so didn't argue with him. However I am of the opinion that something needs to be done. We need an organization to help, inform and provide support in situations like this.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Mar 2017 22:43

KiranA, The H1B issue is complicated.
It has two streams: F1 students transitioning to Green Card using H1B visa. This process gets delayed due to the quota system for green cards.
Second stream is IT outsourcing by software companies from India. This causes most visible heart burn and leads to H1B visa clampdown.

I think the demand for the second stream will reduce with BPO, Cloud storage and better Internet access in India.

Nadella is pushing for cloud storage in India.

Your point about NRI/PIO second generation taking part in political process is quite correct. I had pushed for that even among first generation PIOs. Most NRI support democrats as PEW survey was showing.

In fact 2016 elections paid of with largest contingent of Indian Americans in Congress. In fact @RoKhanna was tweeting Congress cafeteria food with Indian vegetarian menu items. So change is underway.

At local elections I suggest supporting Mayor races as the Chief of Police is appointed by the mayors.
The next path should be to run for local school boards to leverage the image of high education achievers for Indians.
And then higher office in that order.

As Tip O'Neill used to say all politics is local.

John Chiang is running as Democrat for Governor of California. Could be viable candidate on many counts.

Some NRIs are already supporting him in North California.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 06 Mar 2017 22:54

OmkarC wrote:Can HAF sue that SAITJ guy who posted pictures of Indian children & elderly playing in a Columbus park for invasion of privacy ? Is that even legal ? These guys need to be taken to task if they start attacking children. That hate website of SAITJ is also mocking the Kansas shootings as "Indian over-reaction" to some shootings. Racist sub-human ba$turds.

That was a very stupid thing for this man to do, he can be on the receiving end of the same approach with his life documented 24/7 and broadcast to all and sundry. That would be sufficient to give anyone the willies. One needs to be sensible even with one's grievances.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 06 Mar 2017 23:21

ramana wrote:It has two streams: F1 students transitioning to Green Card using H1B visa. This process gets delayed due to the quota system for green cards.
Second stream is IT outsourcing by software companies from India. This causes most visible heart burn and leads to H1B visa clampdown.

I don't see why F1-H1, H1, L1 all needs separate pipelines and treatments. They all merge after a while and are inseparable.

According to massa's own policies, F1 is non-immigrant. So setting them up separately for immigration does not make sense. I say this as somebody who has benefited from the 20K quota.

The only reason why F1-H1 is not singled out for heartburn/hate is because there is really no identifying them separately.

Added later: are you trying to say that an F1 student - because he spends 2 years in US and paid money for that, is now more acceptable to take american jobs and doesnt cause heartburn?

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 06 Mar 2017 23:46

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 Mar 2017 00:29

Gus you can read whatever you want as one cant wake up some one who doesn't want to.

Besides I am talking to KiranA.

Also you can happily vote for any party you want but don't come and critique others choices.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 07 Mar 2017 01:25

Ramana - please don't keep trying to make everything I say as either "trump bashing" or about elections. I merely asked for what's the idea behind separating F1-H1s and H1s. Saying that I am not understanding, without bothering to explain it and passing it off as I am not willing to understand is not what one expects from a person like you. Oh and I don't have a vote in US.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 Mar 2017 02:02

Currently despite the label of H1B there are two streams as I pointed out.

The US companies want the first F1->H1B-> GC path for their high potential employees they cant seem to hire from US citizens.
There is no push back here.

They also want the second path to off shore their high cost employees to reduce operating costs. E.g. the UCSF hospital IT employees et al.
The US employee push back is coming from this second path.

I am saying even this will be moot as cloud computing will lead to multiple offshoring locations all over the globe.

shravanp · Post by **shravanp** » 07 Mar 2017 02:28

ramana wrote: The US companies want the first F1->H1B-> GC path for their high potential employees they cant seem to hire from US citizens.
There is no push back here.

There's another reason why there's little or no pushback over in this stream. By the time F1s graduate, they have sort of merged with the mainstream and have adopted Amreican lifestyle, and the alien quotient is much lesser than hiring H1's directly from Andhra.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 07 Mar 2017 02:34

There is a constant theme that H1s were of 'higher quality' before and now of 'lower quality'. You are substituting with a more euphemistic "high potential"

. FYI, my first job out of F1 was a body shopper.

Once you join the H1 pool, there really should not be any artificially constructed separation of the origin pipeline of F1-H1 and direct H1. It makes no sense for a company to treat its employees differently (from a pov of GC sponsorship etc)..it is just setting up for a lot more issues that is not thought through here.

Besides, who says F1 are of 'higher quality'/'potential' ? The drawing pool from India is more or less the same these days. Actually many F1s change their focus in MS different than UG and go into OPT and learn on the job for months before getting into a level of a direct H1 FOB in US.

OmkarC · Post by **OmkarC** » 07 Mar 2017 02:35

^^ you wish.. as long as you speak w/ an accent and don't have the right skin color, you are always a fair game for racists. Reminds me of that Indian PhD grad student who was beaten w/ baseball bats post 9-11 while going home at night. These people are not fair. There will be pushback against all BROWN & BLACK immigration fortified by legal legislations in the coming times.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 07 Mar 2017 02:37

shravanp wrote:There's another reason why there's little or no pushback over in this stream. By the time F1s graduate, they have sort of merged with the mainstream and have adopted Amreican lifestyle, and the alien quotient is much lesser than hiring H1's directly from Andhra.

There are some markers that can be used to identify F1-H1s and H1 FOBs. But don't they converge after a few years? And F1-H1 moves closer to H1 gangs after having kids and direct H1s also assimilate more into 'mainstream american lifestyle' as they become wealthy etc...

these things are not set in stone and imo it is quite dangerous to set policies based on such thoughts..

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 Mar 2017 02:41

Gus, I don't know why you want to fight with me.
I wrote what it is seen by the US IT labor that is hit by the outsourcing H1Bs.
They don't see the H1 as one pool as you want to see it.
The student H1Bs are not threatening the labor pool here.
This objection and angst was there even in 2008 elections.

Anyway you continue to misrepresent my views.

shravanp · Post by **shravanp** » 07 Mar 2017 02:51

Gus wrote:these things are not set in stone and imo it is quite dangerous to set policies based on such thoughts..

Who says it's set in stone. It's all about degrees in likelihoods.

pravula · Post by **pravula** » 07 Mar 2017 03:00

OmkarC wrote:Can HAF sue that SAITJ guy who posted pictures of Indian children & elderly playing in a Columbus park for invasion of privacy ? Is that even legal ? These guys need to be taken to task if they start attacking children. That hate website of SAITJ is also mocking the Kansas shootings as "Indian over-reaction" to some shootings. Racist sub-human ba$turds.

There is no expectation of privacy in public.

GShankar · Post by **GShankar** » 07 Mar 2017 03:03

From a procedural standpoint, 65k cap does not include the F1-H1-b folks. They have a separate 20k cap. So, I agree with Ramana that there are two paths and the perception is also such. The folks who file under the 65k cap were/are/will be getting the most scrutiny.

However imo while going for the first renewal, all these paths merge and one is looked as just another h1-b fella - "american dreams killer". But idk whether the US agencies like labor dept, dhs, uscis take a nuanced approach while looking at an h1-b applicant's profile during h1-b renewals, perm, I-140, I-485, EAD, etc.

shravanp · Post by **shravanp** » 07 Mar 2017 03:28

GShankar wrote:But idk whether the US agencies like labor dept, dhs, uscis take a nuanced approach while looking at an h1-b applicant's profile during h1-b renewals, perm, I-140, I-485, EAD, etc.

Idk how it is now, but back in time around 2004, every 140 filer had to submit his university degree evaluation done by local USCIS accredited educator agencies. RFE's in 140-stage were common for H1 applicant engineers from India, and that too if they would hail from mechanical engineering or non-IT subject. Compare that with F1-H1s, this particular step used to breeze cuz there's no checking or evaluation involved. Less hostile atitude as well. At the end, there are babooze here as well...and they too have mind of their own.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 07 Mar 2017 04:13

ramana wrote:Gus, I don't know why you want to fight with me.
I wrote what it is seen by the US IT labor that is hit by the outsourcing H1Bs.
They don't see the H1 as one pool as you want to see it.
The student H1Bs are not threatening the labor pool here.
This objection and angst was there even in 2008 elections.

Anyway you continue to misrepresent my views.

I am not fighting you. I am merely questioning your assumptions and offering my views. Please explain yourself if you care, or just say "this is what I think, I don't have time for you". I can accept that at some level, but please do not keep alluding to some motive and keep linking everything to that motive.

A candidate for H1 application should be evaluated on its own merits and does it fit requirements and are there no suitable local candidate etc. What is this artificial creation of a quasi-local candidate of foreign F1 student? Is this a sort of caste system where citizen desi on top, GC desi below, F1 desi after that and H1 desi being the punching bag for all...

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 Mar 2017 04:44

Gus, You leave me no option but to issue a warning to you.

Look at your own post. You bring in all sorts of unnecessary things to the discussion.

saip · Post by **saip** » 07 Mar 2017 04:55

Now it looks like FBI Director Comey may get the axe. Watergate redux?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 Mar 2017 04:58

ShyamSP wrote:
habal wrote:the reason why AP managed to get so many visas to USA is due to the evangelical connection.
You're wrong on this aspect.

Large AP people is because of NTR's education reforms in early days of TDP when he started party. It is only that people from AP hit the sweet spot of the immigration - Higher supply of engineers and less jobs in AP and every one jumped going to the US. It was very easier to get F1 and some times with scholarships than getting into MS in India through GATE in 80s and 90s and then with H1 boom rest that stayed could jump in the bandwagon.

There is also caste competition between Kammas, Reddies, Kapus, and Brahmins to jump in the bandwagon. You can see 80-90% of immigrant AP people, mostly Hindus, from those castes.

And Chilkalur Balaji Temple is in AP.

But honestly the drive was from late 60s.

My friend's sister married a doctor settled in US and that was a big deal for us then.
1970s saw a huge spate of students from Osmania and REC Warangal heading to US utys. (Texas A&M, Auburn, Villanova, Iowa etc)
Texas A&M had a policy of giving admissions for OU students with aid.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 Mar 2017 05:07

saip wrote:Now it looks like FBI Director Comey may get the axe. Watergate redux?

Any Links?

GShankar · Post by **GShankar** » 07 Mar 2017 05:28

shravanp wrote:
GShankar wrote:But idk whether the US agencies like labor dept, dhs, uscis take a nuanced approach while looking at an h1-b applicant's profile during h1-b renewals, perm, I-140, I-485, EAD, etc.
Idk how it is now, but back in time around 2004, every 140 filer had to submit his university degree evaluation done by local USCIS accredited educator agencies. RFE's in 140-stage were common for H1 applicant engineers from India, and that too if they would hail from mechanical engineering or non-IT subject. Compare that with F1-H1s, this particular step used to breeze cuz there's no checking or evaluation involved. Less hostile atitude as well. At the end, there are babooze here as well...and they too have mind of their own.

As recently as Jan 2017, I extended my h1-b. And the immigration attorney advised that I send my educational evaluation as part of h1-b application. However my understanding is that educational evaluation by someone qualified in US saying on record that the h1-b applicant's foreign education is comparable to 4 year Bachelor degree in US is merely to certify that particular h1-b requirement. I don't think that has any benefit in the green card process because the evaluation does an == with local BS. And MS per se does not have any benefit for green card. But pHD does I think.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 Mar 2017 06:03

Good luck.