India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 15 Dec 2016 10:12

Rand Paul has said he will block Bolton.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Dec 2016 10:28

Ok guys no need to bandwagon. Incorrect comparison was made and pointed out. Let's move on.

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 15 Dec 2016 10:36

Austin wrote:The standard production cost figure for every one , look at my quote above for energy minister it varied from $3 to $18 depending from where it is getting production , For Saudi , Iran and Iraq its $ 9-11

That's not the point. Whether you include ancillary costs or you don't, its still far lower than the market rate but it cannot pull down the prevailing rate unless they get into a war for market-share. And as long as they keep the price high (through cartelization), shale will survive albeit in reduced volumes.

Shale has always been loss making venture , that is why shale companies are going bankrupt
http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/16/investi ... ankruptcy/

This is a gross generalization. Its like somebody in the wake of the dotcom crash saying that software/IT has 'always been a loss making venture' and then pointing to a vast list of bankruptcies as evidence.

The ones who were invested in projects with high breakeven costs would naturally go bankrupt. The ones invested in lower cost projects, or capable of cutting costs sharply, will survive and even thrive as prices recover.

Shale unlike conventional oil is dominated not the majors but by nimble small/medium sized operators. Its the epitome of what Schumpeter described as 'creative destruction'. Bankruptcies are par for the course, they don't portend to some industry wide collapse.

Most Shale companies will only survive if the Oil price is around $80-100 and cheap credit is available , Critically the ecological and environmental damage for shale is an unknown entity reason it is banned in EU countries.

Like I said, only high cost producers are dependent on $80 oil for survivability. The slowest of the herd are culled first. The nimble survive.

U.S. shale output set to rise in January as OPEC pulls back

Goldman Sachs said on Sunday that U.S. shale production is on track to grow in the first quarter, with producers achieving 800,000 bpd of annual production growth at $55 a barrel.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 15 Dec 2016 12:17

WIKILEAKS BOMBSHELL: Assange ally says Clinton election hack was 'inside job' NOT Russia

Speaking to The Guardian, Mr Murray said: “I know who leaked them.

“I’ve met the person who leaked them, and they are certainly not Russian and it’s an insider. It’s a leak, not a hack; the two are different things.

“As Julian Assange has made crystal clear, the leaks did not come from the Russians. As I have explained countless times, they are not hacks, they are insider leaks – there is a major difference between the two."

He said: “And it should be said again and again, that if Hillary Clinton had not connived with the DNC to fix the primary schedule to disadvantage Bernie, if she had not received advance notice of live debate questions to use against Bernie, if she had not accepted massive donations to the Clinton foundation and family members in return for foreign policy influence, if she had not failed to distance herself from some very weird and troubling people, then none of this would have happened.”

Mr Assange had previously said WikiLeaks did not get e-mails related to Mrs Clinton’s campaign from a “state actor”.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 15 Dec 2016 12:18

CIA Releases Evidence of Putin Hacking into DNC Email

"Guys, I'm in."

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 15 Dec 2016 12:43

Outgoing US defence secy in Delhi with Trump’s ‘secret’ letter to Modi

Highly placed sources in the government said that Carter, who went and met Prime Minister Modi for a brief meeting on Thursday evening, handed over the secret letter from the president-elect. The government has kept Carter’s meeting with Modi under wraps. A senior official in the Prime Minister’s Office could confirm only that “Yes, Mr. Carter has sought an appointment with the prime minister,” without disclosing the timing of meeting.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 15 Dec 2016 13:28

Pak wary of India’s Trump card on NSG; says stronger nations pressurising others to back New Delhi

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 15 Dec 2016 14:28

A_Gupta wrote:The Russian concept of Reflexive Control
http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semp ... l-ttg.html

good find, and well worth a read and to reflect upon

Rishi Verma · Post by **Rishi Verma** » 15 Dec 2016 15:19

Mexico Wall issues, Islamic visa issues, ISIS support issues are less important as far as Trump benefits to India. Here is why we elected him: Trump has already spooked the Chinese to start battle cries against Formosa.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 15 Dec 2016 16:42

Donald Trump risks damaging intelligence agencies, warns former CIA chief

“Mike is going to have to act a bit differently from how he has during the campaign. Mike is tactically brilliant. He has been a very successful general officer at the tactical level. This is a strategic job, so it’s going to extend him,” Hayden said. “And especially for this president who has said some intemperate things on the campaign, I would like the national security adviser to be a calming influence and Mike in the campaign was at least as intemperate as the president.”

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 15 Dec 2016 18:09

N.Y. police say Muslim teen made up story about being harassed by Trump supporters

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... arassed-b/

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 15 Dec 2016 19:03

This drama is classic intolerance drama which ford foundation etc done in India. Is anyone doubting that the same forces are not behind both?

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 15 Dec 2016 19:23

Yagnasri wrote:This drama is classic intolerance drama which ford foundation etc done in India. Is anyone doubting that the same forces are not behind both?

What sort of logic is this?

Same weapons being used does not mean the same hands are using the weapons in each and every case.

Tactics of propaganda war in the information age follow common doctrines and practices the world over. This does not imply that all strategies, intentions, or actors behind every propaganda effort are the same, does it?

Otherwise we would have to conclude Rama == Indrajit, Arjuna == Karna because all of them used bow and arrows!

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 15 Dec 2016 19:24

Some American history:
(excerpt from:
https://thinkprogress.org/rev-barber-mo ... .a9qvbbbnm )

We faced it during Reconstruction, in the shadow of slavery and amid the wreckage of the Civil War. African Americans joined hands with whites in the North and in the South who were willing to see one another as allies. Within four years after the end of the Civil War, white and black alliances controlled every state house in the South. Together, they elected new leaders. Almost all of the southern legislatures were controlled by either a predominantly black alliance or a strong interracial fusion coalition. They hammered out new constitutions from a deeply moral perspective.

These fusion coalitions 150 years ago also built the first public schools and in state constitutions gave all persons a constitutional right to public education — something that to this day has not been done in the federal constitution. In the state constitution of North Carolina they stated that “beneficent provision for the poor, the unfortunate, and the orphan is one of the first duties of a civilized and a Christian state.” They included labor rights and the right to “enjoyment of the fruit of your own labor” in 1868, long before the Knights of Labor came south with their first southern campaign. They knew then — black and white together — from a moral fusion perspective, that labor without living wages is just a different form of slavery. They expanded access to the ballot and wrote a new fairness into criminal justice.

But in four years, the experiment of the First Reconstruction faced powerful and immoral opposition. And we must understand that opposition then to understand America right now.

Many former Confederates saw black citizenship and interracial alliances — fusion coalitions — as inherently illegitimate. They organized the Ku Klux Klan to terrorize white fusionists whom they viewed as race traitors. They attacked black leaders.

.....

Conservatives began to wail against taxes. The cry about cutting taxes was an effort to end the First Reconstruction by keeping the state governments unable to fulfill the promises of the post-slavery economy and to lift up the former slaves. They wanted to keep the fusion coalition from expanding opportunity and enlarging democracy and supporting public education.

Why were they doing all of this — rolling back voting rights, taking away criminal justice reform, and undoing equal protection under law? They said they wanted to “take back America.” They said “we came to redeem America.” Look at that word “redeem” — they used moral messages for immoral activity. And by the turn of the century, all of the gains of the First Reconstruction had been overturned.

This same pattern of progress and backlash repeated itself during America’s Second Reconstruction — what we often remember as “the Civil Rights movement.”

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 15 Dec 2016 19:29

Trump said and used words which were poorly chosen and inconsiderate. There is absolutely no comparison with Modi who conducted himself like a statesman and was very inclusive in how he portrayed Indian Muslims.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 15 Dec 2016 20:07

Austin wrote:CIA Releases Evidence of Putin Hacking into DNC Email

What I find astonishing is that this claim, just put out by US deep state, is swallowed hook, line, and sinker by everybody in the world. Such is the information power of the sole super power. Putin was personally involved in the hacking. My bloody foot. Yes, last night I also saw aliens flying over my house on a flying saucer.

Yet, in India's case, which is under a relentless terrorist assault by TSP, with mountains of evidence if any is needed, it is customary to declare,"India alleges, TSP denies"; and this filth is the standard mantra of powerful newspapers like NYT, WP, Economist etc

GShankar · Post by **GShankar** » 15 Dec 2016 20:48

Rishi Verma wrote:Mexico Wall issues, Islamic visa issues, ISIS support issues are less important as far as Trump benefits to India. Here is why we elected him: Trump has already spooked the Chinese to start battle cries against Formosa.

Did we really elect him? Unless you mean the brf american election?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Dec 2016 22:57

G.Shankar, He means the collective we the people of US.
No need to nitpick. It will lead to flaming.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 15 Dec 2016 23:26

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/us-e ... 250023.cms
Watch for EJ to exploit the DT govt and start acting funny

India-born preacher bats for Republican nominee Donald Trump

GShankar · Post by **GShankar** » 16 Dec 2016 04:31

ramana wrote:G.Shankar, He means the collective we the people of US.
No need to nitpick. It will lead to flaming.

Didn't mean to nitpick. Just mentioned in a funny way. My last on this.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Dec 2016 04:38

Sure. No offence taken

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 16 Dec 2016 09:21

Jullian Assange on US Election Hack & Wikileaks

Sean Hannity FULL Interview with Julian Assange 12/15/16

Hitesh · Post by **Hitesh** » 16 Dec 2016 13:54

schinnas wrote:Trump said and used words which were poorly chosen and inconsiderate. There is absolutely no comparison with Modi who conducted himself like a statesman and was very inclusive in how he portrayed Indian Muslims.

Exactly. I am sick of people comparing Trump to Modi. Face it. Trump is no Modi and will never be the likes of Modi. He does not have the keen intellect or stature of Modi. To compare Trump to Modi is an insult to Modi and his supporters.

Hitesh · Post by **Hitesh** » 16 Dec 2016 13:56

Austin wrote:WIKILEAKS BOMBSHELL: Assange ally says Clinton election hack was 'inside job' NOT Russia

Speaking to The Guardian, Mr Murray said: “I know who leaked them.

“I’ve met the person who leaked them, and they are certainly not Russian and it’s an insider. It’s a leak, not a hack; the two are different things.

“As Julian Assange has made crystal clear, the leaks did not come from the Russians. As I have explained countless times, they are not hacks, they are insider leaks – there is a major difference between the two."

He said: “And it should be said again and again, that if Hillary Clinton had not connived with the DNC to fix the primary schedule to disadvantage Bernie, if she had not received advance notice of live debate questions to use against Bernie, if she had not accepted massive donations to the Clinton foundation and family members in return for foreign policy influence, if she had not failed to distance herself from some very weird and troubling people, then none of this would have happened.”

Mr Assange had previously said WikiLeaks did not get e-mails related to Mrs Clinton’s campaign from a “state actor”.

I don't buy Assange's argument. He has a very big ax to grind against Obama administration and his officials because the Obama administration hounded him for the Brady Manning's leaks and he blames them for his current situation, a situation created entirely of his own doing.

Hitesh · Post by **Hitesh** » 16 Dec 2016 14:01

Rudradev wrote:
chetak wrote:
Trump won against ALL opposition, both within and without his party. Somewhat like Modi did and a right wing tsunami is sweeping across many countries and Trump may just have tapped into that wave.
I think we have to be extraordinarily careful about this kind of generalization.

There is really no comparison between Trump's election and what Modi managed to achieve.

Over the 2010-2016 period the Tea Party movement had already created, through pursuit of deliberate strategies, the kind of electoral climate that paved the way for someone like DT to come into power. For six-plus years they had been relentlessly running messaging campaigns that tapped into white blue-collar resentment against the cultural siege posed by nonwhite immigration and political correctness, anger against the economic doldrums resulting from QE2 and the bank bailout, frustration of fighting two unwinnable wars etc.

It is certainly to DT's credit that he recognized the shifting mood of a significant section of the US electorate, and tailored his own campaign accordingly. However, the ground for him had been very well prepared beforehand. The more conventional GOP candidates didn't see it... except perhaps Ted Cruz to some extent... and they missed the bus. But DT was not the author of his own electoral strategy; he simply piggybacked on that of the Tea Party and its organs.

He played the race card and gambled on it and won big with it. He was the owner and leader of the birther movement and with that cemented in his background, he played into 9% of the Republican voters' fears who gave him the nomination. It was Clinton's to win but the 3rd parties entrant and the FBI letter spoiled Clinton's chances. There were several states that Trump won with a margin less than the number of votes by either one of the 3rd party nominees. In Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennslyvania, Jill Stein had more votes than the margin that Trump had and in Florida, Gary Johnson had more votes than the margin Trump had. And I recall there were two other red states that Trump won closely and the margin was less than the 3rd party entrants.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 16 Dec 2016 20:12

Animation showing changes in climatic zones used by gardeners in the USA:
https://www.arborday.org/media/mapchanges.cfm

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 16 Dec 2016 20:29

Hitesh wrote: Exactly. I am sick of people comparing Trump to Modi. Face it. Trump is no Modi and will never be the likes of Modi. He does not have the keen intellect or stature of Modi. To compare Trump to Modi is an insult to Modi and his supporters.

++1001^1001. Trump is no ModiJi. Trump just rode the white Christian nationalist wave, which started as RudraJi pointed out, the day Obama was elected president in 2008 led by Fox news peddling conspiracy theory zombies like Glen Beck etc. But RudraJi, I respectfully disagree that there is any economic factor in the voting patterns of blue collar and many educated whites. In fact, Paul Krugman in the NYT pointed out that incomes had actually gone up, and some of their genuine grievances were in fact better addressed by HRC's platform. It was just just blind racist xenophobia against the appearance of a few non-whites led by Obama in the halls of power in DC. This crap, make 'America great again", was the racist slogan that propelled Trump after Fox news set the stage. He has no intellect, he is just a rabid thug and good business man that knew how to use the US system to be successful (some even doubt that) and sleep with a lot of hot chics.

ModiJi on the other hand is a supreme intellectual coming up from humble background. He is a proud simple living high thinking Hindu. One just needs to go back and listen to his youtube speeches to realize his genius. Indians must have done some good Karma in their past lives to deserve someone like him. My only criticism of him is his flip flops on his TSP policy, that bear hugging of gaanja was a complete disaster.

But coming back to India US relations, last night I saw an interview with bahadur Steve Coll who is now dean in Columbia univ. I am not Trump supporter, but the pomposity of elite like Coll gets my goat. He was critical of Trump for his relations with Putin, his cabinet picks etc. Seems like Putin is the latest fall guy for all and sundry among the liberal elite. Coll was vociferous in attacking Trump. Why? Because his picks don't reflect "American values", he won't advance democracy and "liberal values". I wanted to scream and say f!ck you. In the Indian subcontinent US has been in bed and funding a terrorist abomination in TSP for 70+ years, perpetuating equal equal between a terrorist abomination and the world's largest democracy, and these liberal toadies sit there and talk about "advancing democracy". My bloody foot. US even threatened to nuke India and supporting TSP when TSPA was committing genocide in Bangladesh.

If for a change, Trump sheds US's pomposity and sophistry about "liberal values" and "spreading democracy" and moralistic crap like that, it will be a welcome change to the world at large. I mean US should just stick to transactional relationships, and not masquerade its real intentions with "human rights" and "spreading democracy BS".

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 16 Dec 2016 23:49

http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/disney-s ... ns-1638150
Indians Took Our Jobs, Given 'Special Treatment' Say Techies Suing Disney
A group of information technology workers laid off by Walt Disney World have sued the company after they were fired and replaced by contractors from India in 2014.
The group of 30 former IT workers sued Walt Disney Parks and Resorts on Monday in an Orlando federal court, alleging they were dismissed "based solely on their national origin and race" and were replaced with Indians who received "special treatment".
They have told the court that each of them was replaced by an Indian who was either brought in from overseas or H-1B visas, or was assigned overseas to handle the job remotely.
The workers felt even more insulted by being forced to train their replacements, the suit says.
.....

Gautam

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 17 Dec 2016 01:09

US-India ties likely to remain strong under Trump, experts say

Supporters of a plan to build F-16 fighters in India hope that improved relations with a country once close to the Soviet Union will overcome President-elect Donald Trump’s opposition to sending U.S. manufacturing jobs abroad.

Lockheed Martin — competing with Boeing’s F/A-18 and Sweden’s Gripen fighter to replace India’s aging fleet of Russian jets — has offered to shift F-16 production from Fort Worth, Texas, to India if it wins the contract.

But Trump has threatened to punish firms that move factories overseas.

“What will be the U.S. policy posture now that the new president-elect is in the mix?” an official at a U.S. defense contractor in India told The Washington Post. “Is he going to continue the policy of engaging in India on co-production and co-development?”

The countries have been hammering out details for how they can engage in joint research, investment and production of military equipment, U.S. Ambassador to India Richard Verma said in an interview shortly before the election. “We are north of $15 billion in defense sales (annually),” said the former Air Force legal officer, whose parents were born in India.

India, the world’s No. 1 arms importer, could be a huge market for U.S. defense firms. A number of projects for joint manufacture of U.S. weapons are being looked at under a recent bilateral Defense Technology and Trade Initiative.

‘Still resistance’

In India, there has been debate over whether the warmer relationship with the U.S. constitutes an alliance, with some concerned the country could be drawn into U.S.-led wars, Hathaway said.

“There is still resistance to working too closely with the U.S., but if you look at it in a historical context, it is a closer relationship than it has ever been,” he said.

Modi and Trump share similar views on terrorism, and there’s no evidence the president-elect wants to improve ties with Pakistan, a hotbed of Islamic extremism that India has fought four wars against since the subcontinent was partitioned in 1947.

“Clearly, Modi and Trump share similar views on terrorism,” Hathaway said. “That’s another reason to work together.”

Indians will pay keen attention to what happens in Afghanistan next year, he said.

“Trump has shown no interest in Afghanistan. He thinks we need to refocus resources on rebuilding domestically and will be more anxious than (President Barack) Obama to terminate the U.S. military presence,” Hathaway said. “That will lead to regeneration of the Taliban and anxiety in (New) Delhi.”

It’s also unclear how Trump will approach India’s chief rival, China. He has promised to confront the communist nation on economic issues but doesn’t seem interested in defending human rights and democracy in the Far East and expects U.S. friends and allies in the region to do more for themselves, Hathaway said.

“Indians don’t want to be a junior partner in a U.S.-led anti-China group … but they will be happy if Trump stands up to China,” he said.

Yayavar · Post by **Yayavar** » 17 Dec 2016 01:18

Hitesh wrote:
Austin wrote:WIKILEAKS BOMBSHELL: Assange ally says Clinton election hack was 'inside job' NOT Russia

I don't buy Assange's argument. He has a very big ax to grind against Obama administration and his officials because the Obama administration hounded him for the Brady Manning's leaks and he blames them for his current situation, a situation created entirely of his own doing.

Looks like there is a choice to believe - GOTUS or Wikileaks

disha · Post by **disha** » 17 Dec 2016 03:21

Hitesh wrote: I don't buy Assange's argument. He has a very big ax to grind against Obama administration and his officials because the Obama administration hounded him for the Brady Manning's leaks and he blames them for his current situation, a situation created entirely of his own doing.

Wait - what does a NFL star has to do with grinding axes against Obama?

Oh I see - you mean Bradley [Chelsea] Manning. The poor bloke (or blokini) got a 25 year jail term., part of it was for leaking videos of Baghdad Air Strikes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_12,_ ... _airstrike which was a Bush era incident which Obama could have come through cleanly as part of nobull-peace-price and as an effort towards perestroika and glasnost.

Instead., Obama doubled down and made sure that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granai_airstrike where 93 children were killed does not see the light of the day.

So why is nobull-peace-prize winner Obama hounding a whistle-blower?

Interestingly if Obama is such a human rights giant - why does not he pardon both Assange and Chelsea Manning? At the very least reduce the sentence of the later who sometimes spends "time" in solitary confinement (know to shred the sanity of one) and Assange himself is under a 'house arrest'.

But nah - Obama rather talks about Cashmere and human rights violations against jihadis rather than looking at his own lilliput of a shadow.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 17 Dec 2016 03:29

Yayavar wrote:
Hitesh wrote:

I don't buy Assange's argument. He has a very big ax to grind against Obama administration and his officials because the Obama administration hounded him for the Brady Manning's leaks and he blames them for his current situation, a situation created entirely of his own doing.
Looks like there is a choice to believe - GOTUS or Wikileaks

Or none. More than likely.

disha · Post by **disha** » 17 Dec 2016 04:03

Obama - The 'whiner' in chief...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... on-hacking

This takes the whine cake:

Blaming Moscow for hacking the Democratic National Committee and the email account of Clinton campaign chief John Podesta, he said he wanted the report he has ordered into the affair out before he leaves office on 20 January.

He dodged whether Putin personally directed the operations but pointedly noted “not much happens in Russia without Vladimir Putin”.

The president said that he had told his Russian counterpart in person in September “to cut it out” with regard to hacks to influence the election and added “there were going to be some serious consequences if he did not”.

Obama thought that this intervention was at least somewhat successful as “we did not see further tampering of the election process. But the leaks through Wikileaks had already occurred”.

For first bolded part., are we to assume that Hillary's private email server was FIPS-140-2 Level 4 certified? - and - for the second part Obama threatened to do what?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Dec 2016 10:37

If the hacks were real, the contents of Podesta emails are also real? All the comments, pizzas.....
Also BO is still President. He should fire the DNI, NSA etc....

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 17 Dec 2016 10:57

Hitesh wrote:I don't buy Assange's argument. He has a very big ax to grind against Obama administration and his officials because the Obama administration hounded him for the Brady Manning's leaks and he blames them for his current situation, a situation created entirely of his own doing.

He may or may not have an axe to grind , but what the wikileaks has put up in terms of Brady Manning Leaks , NSA Leaks and DNC/Podesta emails has not been disputed in terms of contents and authenticity.

Obama reaction has been to blame the messenger than address the facts.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 17 Dec 2016 11:03

disha wrote:For first bolded part., are we to assume that Hillary's private email server was FIPS-140-2 Level 4 certified? - and - for the second part Obama threatened to do what?

He has blamed the loss of HRC to first FBI Chief Comey and then Russian hacking , That has been his sum and substance of his defense and thats what weak and incompetent people do Blame their Loss on Others

He was suppose to lead HRC to Victory and HRC was suppose to carry BO legacy in what was to be BO 3.0 ..... Since he couldnt save his "legacy" or got HRC elected in what was suppose to be the most qualified candidate , he needs some one to blame for that and neither BO or HRC are honest enough to take that blame on themself or much less accept the fraud DNC committed on Bernie ....Comey and Russia are the scapegoats.

Meanwhile

Bernie Sanders: Dem leadership 'has failed'

Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders said Wednesday night that the Democrats' incredible loss against "an extreme right-wing party that is so out of touch" shows that Democratic leadership is broken and needs to be replaced.

"Clearly, whatever the leadership of the Democratic Party has been doing, over the last many years, has failed," Sanders said.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 17 Dec 2016 11:22

Rep. Mulvaney great OMB choice.True fiscal conservative. Didn't support Boehner budget betrayals.

https://twitter.com/DA_Stockman/status/ ... 3735864320

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 17 Dec 2016 20:36

Obama's statement about Comey Factor and Russian hacking should be seen in the context of closeness of the outcome. HRC lost Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania by a combined total of about 75,000 votes, meaning she needed only 38,000 of those to win! When margin of loss/win is this close, a mere negative sneeze could be the cause. Before Comey's October's surprise Hillary was comfortably ahead in polls by an average of 7%, which roughly translates into 7 million votes ( 1% lead in poll ~= 1 million popular votes). Post Comey her winning chances dropped from 93% to 64% and her lead in the polls dropped from 7% to 2.9%. Hillary will finish with 2.9 million more votes than DT (HRC 65,844,594; DT 62,979,616), meaning Comey's factor cost her close to 4 million votes and the election.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 17 Dec 2016 21:17

Comey didn't tell Billary to rely on minorities and women to get elected or to ignore working class white males in rust belt states. She is a lousy politician who mistakenly relied on idenity and gender politics. therefore she lost. all she had to do was to tell working class males, convincingly, that their problems were important to her and occupied her thoughts every day. she needed to visit factories, mines, construction sites and state unemployment offices and start hugging and serving coffee and sandwiches.

but she couldn't do it, because she didn't really feel that way.

and she lost the election because of it.

not Comey, not Russians, SHE LOST IT. ALL ON HER OWN.

addendum:

If somebody wants to be a liberal democratic president of the US, you must love PEOPLE. all of them. you MUST CONVINCE them that their problems are your problems to solve.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 17 Dec 2016 21:44

but she couldn't do it, because she didn't really feel that way.

Have a heart. She COULDN'T is right. Apparently, per the presentation I saw today, she's been on some nano-particle medications that in small doses make people look younger, keep a good layer of makeup attached, etc. But in larger doses, it is fatal. So she was really walking the razor wire there. Try visiting shop floors in that condition... what if the makeup layers started falling off?

Anyway, the 38000 margin sounds very encouraging. I think that was all BRF types.