India-US relations: News and Discussions III

krishna_krishna · Post by **krishna_krishna** » 01 Sep 2016 06:20

^^ And sell out too aka shar mal sheikh, Mumbai attacks no response to pakis at behest of uncle, the list goes on. Now he sits in lap of massa in publicly than previously he used to do it in dark. Got his kids GC's etc, at expense of national interest akk thoo. Gungadeen of lowest order

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 01 Sep 2016 07:49

krishna_krishna wrote:^^ And sell out too aka shar mal sheikh, Mumbai attacks no response to pakis at behest of uncle, the list goes on. Now he sits in lap of massa in publicly than previously he used to do it in dark. Got his kids GC's etc, at expense of national interest akk thoo. Gungadeen of lowest order

Who are you referring to?

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 01 Sep 2016 07:55

CRamS wrote:
krishna_krishna wrote:^^ And sell out too aka shar mal sheikh, Mumbai attacks no response to pakis at behest of uncle, the list goes on. Now he sits in lap of massa in publicly than previously he used to do it in dark. Got his kids GC's etc, at expense of national interest akk thoo. Gungadeen of lowest order
Who are you referring to?

Shiv Shankar Menon would be my guess. He was the Foreign Secretary at that time and responsible for drafting the S-e-S joint statement.

Although, some reports say that he was instructed to include the Baloch reference in the joint statement by MMS in the presence of Groper and when the shite hit the fan with the uproar that predictably followed, he was asked to claim responsibility citing a drafting error to shield MMS.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 01 Sep 2016 09:58

Why US-China rivalry is unsettling South Asia
http://www.dw.com/en/why-us-china-rival ... a-19516733
( Desi Ghee is in the trade which is more Important than Military cooperation)

US Secretary of State John Kerry, who is currently on a trip to India, has made it clear that Washington wants to see India in a more powerful role in the South Asian region. Not only is the US moving ahead on a nuclear deal with India, it is also aiming to increase the bilateral trade to around $500 billion (448 billion euros) annually."I'm very, very confident that we will continue to strengthen what President Obama has called the defining partnership of the 21st century," Kerry said in New Delhi, adding that cooperation on trade and security had "room to be able to further grow.""We also hope to see our civil nuclear cooperation take shape in the form of new reactors that will deliver reliable electricity to tens of millions of Indian households," Kerry said.The US is actively supporting New Delhi's bid for the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG), which has been opposed by India's archrivals China and Pakistan.Indian Foreign Minister Sushma Swaraj said the India-US military cooperation would also get a boost as her country wanted to build more sophisticated hardware at home with US cooperation."We want to take our expanding defense cooperation to the next stage of co-production and co-development," Swaraj said at a conference alongside Kerry.

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 01 Sep 2016 13:39

krishna_krishna wrote:^^ And sell out too aka shar mal sheikh, Mumbai attacks no response to pakis at behest of uncle, the list goes on. Now he sits in lap of massa in publicly than previously he used to do it in dark. Got his kids GC's etc, at expense of national interest akk thoo. Gungadeen of lowest order

Why blame US. They are doing things that suits best for them and their national interests. In some way US has done what Indian Establishment at that time wanted.

See how our ex-foreign secretary Nirupama Rao is behaving and how ex-foreign minister Salman Khurshid is behaving. Do you want US to antagonize Pakistan and India at once, and gain nothing. Now, we have a pro-Indic govt, things may change.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 01 Sep 2016 19:09

^^ I know Kurshit filth is just that, a filthy TSP RAPE sitting in India, but I am curious as what Nurapama Rao has been up to these days? Has she said or done anything inimical to Indian interests? Has she turned "South Asian"?

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 01 Sep 2016 21:03

Nirupama rao has been trying to undermine Modi for start. She gives statements against India/Modi as soon as they open mouth. Supports Pakis and criticized PM Baluchistan references and even supported China.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 01 Sep 2016 21:53

vijayk wrote:Nirupama rao has been trying to undermine Modi for start. She gives statements against India/Modi as soon as they open mouth. Supports Pakis and criticized PM Baluchistan references and even supported China.

Never been a NR fan. Intellectual lightweight. However, I've not read anything from her that is critical of Modi or pro China. Judge for yourself:

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp ... 047512.ece

The usual MEA non-speak

arun · Post by **arun** » 01 Sep 2016 22:26

Transcript of Joint Press Interaction during the Second India-US Strategic and Commercial Dialogue in New Delhi :

MEA Transcript

chanakyaa · Post by **chanakyaa** » 02 Sep 2016 07:01

Making Business out of South China Sea Conflict -- What we are doing is putting India as the center of the supply base (F16s and such)

...
Lockheed is vying for a contract to sell fighter jets to India, part of Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s $150 billion plan to modernize the country’s armed forces. To sweeten the deal, Lockheed is willing to shift F-16 production to the country. “What we are doing is putting India as the center of the supply base,” says Randall Howard, director for aeronautics business development at Lockheed. Rivals Boeing and Saab have made similar offers to move production to India
...
India is the world’s largest arms importer, according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, and depends on imports for 60 percent of its defense requirements. During the Cold War, India was a reliable customer for Russian-made gear but is now more open to buying from the U.S. Lockheed already builds cabins for the company’s S-92 helicopter as well as tail sections for its C-130J transport aircraft in India. There should be more opportunities for U.S. contractors as Modi tries to modernize the military. “Quite a number of legacy systems are reaching their desperate sell-by date,” says Bernard Loo, a professor at the S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies at Singapore’s Nanyang Technological University.
...

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 02 Sep 2016 08:01

chanakyaa wrote:Making Business out of South China Sea Conflict -- What we are doing is putting India as the center of the supply base (F16s and such)

In a move that’s angered China, South Korea is deploying Lockheed’s Terminal High-Altitude Area Defense missiles. Beijing says the system’s radar can reach into China and threatens its security.

Yo, that is part of the plan, if feasible.

partha · Post by **partha** » 02 Sep 2016 09:56

John Kerry in his interview has said India and US see eye to eye on among other things, "Bay of Bengal". I am intrigued by the mention of BoB. What could have been the difference of opinion that India and US now see eye to eye regarding BoB? US was trying to set up some base in Bangladesh. Could it be related to that?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 02 Sep 2016 11:34

partha wrote:John Kerry in his interview has said India and US see eye to eye on among other things, "Bay of Bengal". I am intrigued by the mention of BoB. What could have been the difference of opinion that India and US now see eye to eye regarding BoB? US was trying to set up some base in Bangladesh. Could it be related to that?

Why did this bugger comment on FOE in India?? Is it his father's property or are they running such a perfect country themselves??

All these ill cultured creeps have no idea about the civilized behavior of guests in the home of their hosts.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 02 Sep 2016 11:35

chanakyaa wrote:Making Business out of South China Sea Conflict -- What we are doing is putting India as the center of the supply base (F16s and such)

...
Lockheed is vying for a contract to sell fighter jets to India, part of Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s $150 billion plan to modernize the country’s armed forces. To sweeten the deal, Lockheed is willing to shift F-16 production to the country. “What we are doing is putting India as the center of the supply base,” says Randall Howard, director for aeronautics business development at Lockheed. Rivals Boeing and Saab have made similar offers to move production to India
...
India is the world’s largest arms importer, according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, and depends on imports for 60 percent of its defense requirements. During the Cold War, India was a reliable customer for Russian-made gear but is now more open to buying from the U.S. Lockheed already builds cabins for the company’s S-92 helicopter as well as tail sections for its C-130J transport aircraft in India. There should be more opportunities for U.S. contractors as Modi tries to modernize the military. “Quite a number of legacy systems are reaching their desperate sell-by date,” says Bernard Loo, a professor at the S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies at Singapore’s Nanyang Technological University.
...

why not see if the Ford Model T plant is still available for relocation?? That may benefit us more in the long run.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 02 Sep 2016 12:17

Make in India F-16 and export to Pakistan

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 02 Sep 2016 14:52

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... -cash-ban/

We know that Amar Singh done some donations to her. Who else is there? Any gurus?

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 02 Sep 2016 21:25

But why is the Modi government so keen to make common cause with the US? Perhaps because such a policy is popular and is an easier, less risky option than committing the country to containing China all by itself, which requires the gumption missing in New Delhi. Would any Indian government have the guts, for instance, to arm Vietnam with nuclear missiles as a belated tit-for-tat response to Beijing’s nuclear-missile arming Pakistan and, in one fell swoop, achieve situational parity with China? Or, permanently deploy aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya to the South-China Sea with periodic base-switching between Na Thrang on the central Vietnamese coast and Subic Bay, which Manila will gladly permit? New Delhi hasn’t even had the nerve to speed up transfer of the Brahmos supersonic cruise missile to Hanoi to bottle up the secret Chinese “Fourth Fleet” meant for IOR missions.

More give than take in tie-up with US -- Bharat Karnad

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 02 Sep 2016 21:34

China is not upset because India got *access* to all US bases worldwide but because US got access to all Indian bases. That logistic support agreement favors America is given in that sense.

Do we have any aircraft carrier to spare on *permanent* deployment to SCS? I am no expert but it will perhaps need 2, one deployed and one in transit or repairs. Karnard saab needs to calm down.

Btw, if we are able to spare some carriers or ships for *permanent* deployment in the SCS the logistic support agreement will become much more balanced as we will be able to use all their base in that region in our support.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 02 Sep 2016 21:47

ShauryaT wrote:
But why is the Modi government so keen to make common cause with the US? Perhaps because such a policy is popular and is an easier, less risky option than committing the country to containing China all by itself, which requires the gumption missing in New Delhi. Would any Indian government have the guts, for instance, to arm Vietnam with nuclear missiles as a belated tit-for-tat response to Beijing’s nuclear-missile arming Pakistan and, in one fell swoop, achieve situational parity with China? Or, permanently deploy aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya to the South-China Sea with periodic base-switching between Na Thrang on the central Vietnamese coast and Subic Bay, which Manila will gladly permit? New Delhi hasn’t even had the nerve to speed up transfer of the Brahmos supersonic cruise missile to Hanoi to bottle up the secret Chinese “Fourth Fleet” meant for IOR missions.
More give than take in tie-up with US -- Bharat Karnad

So how long will be this fiction of "China" arming pakis with nukes be peddled ?
Pakis were & will always be a munna for the Anglo-saxon combine of UQ-Massa.They were created for that purpose. If they are armed it with nukes - its because massa wanted to balance India in the subcontinent with the nuke threat.

The paki nukes may be of Chinese design & origin but they were without doubt proliferated into paki hands by AlCIAda types , Chinese are easily goaded as they were Massa's strategic covert munna during the cold war .

In the end pakis themselves may be effectively nuke nude - the confidence massa displays in the safety of pakistani nukes means they are the ones who control the codes & integration .

If there is a nuke strike by pakis on India it is actually a nuke strike by massa on India.

As far as nukes supply to vietnam, massa can find some other gungadin to fetch the nukes to their new munna Vietnam - as and when they feel China is acting with more independence . India need not volunteer.

Vietnam figures big in the plans of massa in impending offshoring of manufacturing from China by MNC's .
Just as China is supposed to be struck in the middle income trap, India per design will not get much offshoring from China (much will go to key TPP partners like Vietnam ) - we are supposed to be struck in the low income trap as per massa planning.

Only national led growth (independent of massa origin sources of FDI, and leveraging other diverse sources intenally and externally) can allow India to reach the middle income stage.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 02 Sep 2016 21:59

Yagnasri wrote:http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... -cash-ban/

We know that Amar Singh done some donations to her. Who else is there? Any gurus?

That is breitbart reporting.

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 02 Sep 2016 22:02

pankajs wrote:China is not upset because India got *access* to all US bases worldwide but because US got access to all Indian bases. That logistic support agreement favors America is given in that sense.

Do we have any aircraft carrier to spare on *permanent* deployment to SCS? I am no expert but it will perhaps need 2, one deployed and one in transit or repairs. Karnard saab needs to calm down.

Btw, if we are able to spare some carriers or ships for *permanent* deployment in the SCS the logistic support agreement will become much more balanced as we will be able to use all their base in that region in our support.

Thank god for Karnad's rants. At least there is someone who can speak up for Indian interests without giving a damn for the politics and preferences of MEA. So, let him speak, it becomes part of the historical record. If he is wrong then history will judge him so and discard his views. However, if he is right, the nation was warned at the time. Only passing time will tell. So far, he has been more right than wrong.

By letting the IAF take care of the western flank, IN aircraft carriers are free to engage in the far east exclusively. There are multiple ways to skin a cat. The point is to send a message. My favored program is to build a rail and road link to Hanoi.

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 02 Sep 2016 23:59

ShauryaT wrote:
But why is the Modi government so keen to make common cause with the US? Perhaps because such a policy is popular and is an easier, less risky option than committing the country to containing China all by itself, which requires the gumption missing in New Delhi. Would any Indian government have the guts, for instance, to arm Vietnam with nuclear missiles as a belated tit-for-tat response to Beijing’s nuclear-missile arming Pakistan and, in one fell swoop, achieve situational parity with China? Or, permanently deploy aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya to the South-China Sea with periodic base-switching between Na Thrang on the central Vietnamese coast and Subic Bay, which Manila will gladly permit? New Delhi hasn’t even had the nerve to speed up transfer of the Brahmos supersonic cruise missile to Hanoi to bottle up the secret Chinese “Fourth Fleet” meant for IOR missions.
More give than take in tie-up with US -- Bharat Karnad

What India has to gain by aligning with US? Lets see...
- Support for Balochistan, Sindhudesh and GB. Reduced support to Hurrirats.
- A seat in the table in Afghanistan to play out the end game.
- Better access to US mil tech, which while expensive is better than what Russia can deliver in the near to medium future.
- Veto support in UNSC... With Russia more and more economically dependent on China, it makes sense to have another ally with veto power.
- Access to restricted groups like Australia Group, Wassenaer group, MTCR (already happened), etc.
- better intel sharing against pigs and cheens.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 03 Sep 2016 00:50

pankajs wrote:China is not upset because India got *access* to all US bases worldwide but because US got access to all Indian bases. That logistic support agreement favors America is given in that sense.

Does it (favor the US)?

Parrikar at Singapore a few months ago wrote: We have traditional links with the countries in the South China Sea. More than half our trade passes through its waters.

China talks of protecting her interests in IOR and we all seem to accept it. Indians do not even seem to realize what is at stake in the SCS? That the IN has projected area of interest all the way to Alaska, US, is totally lost on people?

And, just to make it short, IN cannot deal with China alone. Not even thinkable. On board games, it is fine. Move ships from here to there, etc. Just to be clear - under DTTI, the US had proposed very mundane projects (a worthless handheld drone, some research of battle dress/suite/whatever, and roll-on/roll-off stuff for the C-130Js). It was India that requested the assistance on the carrier (outside EMALS) and the help on Jet Engine for the AMCA.

Do we have any aircraft carrier to spare on *permanent* deployment to SCS? I am no expert but it will perhaps need 2, one deployed and one in transit or repairs. Karnard saab needs to calm down.

Or team up. It is a matter of managing threats. That is what China is doing. China hardly lifts a bat, but send Pakis, etc to bat. Same here. team up. China understands that very well - which is why they have ready-made responses (India joining US may irk China, Pakistan and even Russia - came from the Chinese mouth piece).

On the latest article by Mr. Karnard:

1) Again, nothing new, exception the despicable picture his paper has attached

2) He needs to do some serious research on the matter of US servicemen in India. The US has been using Indian facilities for about 15 years. GoI or local govs (Kerala) should have some stats on the matter. Such stats are what Mr. Karnard must use, not ones from Okinawa/Subic Bay

3) Okinawa and Subic Bay were both bases. LEMOA allows the US to use Indian facilities and NOT base anything at such facilities. To that extent Mr. Karnard seems to have backpedaled:

Karnad wrote:The statement by the Ministry of Defence (MoD) sought to be reassuring on this count, saying, “The Agreement does not create any obligations on either Party to carry out any joint activity. It does not provide for the establishment of any bases or basing arrangements.”

BR, where tomorrow comes today. Mr. Karnard took so many months to realize what we did some time back!!

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 03 Sep 2016 01:50

Meh. What can the US do to India now?

We are a nuclear power and we're entering the high tech era in a big way.

China-Pakistan axis will have to be checkmated.

We can't do it alone.

We will be partnering w/ Japan and the US to achieve our regional and global objectives.

Karnad has been right about certain things but he tends to go overboard.

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 03 Sep 2016 02:16

^ Agree.

Karnad is ignoring the quid pro quo that is not captured in the deal. He is also wrong in equating LEMOA to NOT acting against China. We can and should be doing both. Arming Vietnam or other SE nations is no brainer, given that China has armed TSP with fighters, ships, missiles and more.

V_Raman · Post by **V_Raman** » 03 Sep 2016 04:05

I can't understand one thing. CPEC must have gotten the nod from India before. What has changed now? China's behavior w.r.t our NSG membership? What else?

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 03 Sep 2016 04:22

CPEC could not have got Indian OK. In fact, it was China - cannot recall how long back - had resolved that for China to help Pakistan in PoK that Pakistan had to resolve the issues with India. India has always relied on that position by CHina.

BTW, the Pakis, in their infinite wisdom, are blaming the Obama Pivot for CPEC and thus aggravating India - which some there claim resulted in the Balouch statement by Modi.

This new "invite" for India to the US-Afghan table should send shivers through the Pakis. Waiting to see how China reacts. Must be fun times in ND.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 03 Sep 2016 05:42

It's a complex web of interests that PMO will have to carefully navigate through.

The US ideally would like to turn us into Japan/SoKo.

Won't happen though.

Notice how the Pakistani's have made a second overture for bilateral test ban treaty.

The Chinese want us to sign CTBT/NPT before we hard lobby for NSG membership in the coming months.

They will try to get their pet dog to wag its tail at us and bark when it suits them.

IMO, we will be signing a CISMOA and BECA like agreement if the Chinese continue escalation over an imploding Pakistan.

Once we get NSG membership, I would do 7-10 tests 200kt-1mt and sign the dotted line on both CTBT and NPT.

We can easily use the deteriorating bilateral relationship w/ both China and Pakistan as justification.

They'll hit us w/ sanctions but they won't do much. We have everything we need now to make it big.

This will make next POTUS sit up and give them a chew toy to slobber over in front of non proliferation lobby.

V_Raman · Post by **V_Raman** » 03 Sep 2016 10:52

The last time India got opportunity to dismember Pak, we did it by executing a friendship treaty. We again have that opportunity in the next decade. This is prompting the alphabet soup urgency with USA. IMO that is the real non-negotiable for India which is prompting this behavior. One terror attack now will see the full wrath of India. China is playing with fire.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 03 Sep 2016 20:38

RoyG wrote:It's a complex web of interests that PMO will have to carefully navigate through.

The US ideally would like to turn us into Japan/SoKo.

Actually they want to turn us into the next UK and don't want us to become another France.

All P5s are facing reliability concerns for stockpiles. They will find a way to test. A 1996 type final/final test series or a new set using laser ignition techniques. Note UK wants to cooperate with France on this and we perhaps could too if we paid them enough.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 03 Sep 2016 20:42

schinnas wrote:
What India has to gain by aligning with US? Lets see...
- Support for Balochistan, Sindhudesh and GB. Reduced support to Hurrirats.
- A seat in the table in Afghanistan to play out the end game.
- Better access to US mil tech, which while expensive is better than what Russia can deliver in the near to medium future.
- Veto support in UNSC... With Russia more and more economically dependent on China, it makes sense to have another ally with veto power.
- Access to restricted groups like Australia Group, Wassenaer group, MTCR (already happened), etc.
- better intel sharing against pigs and cheens.

But yeh dil mange more. And we want all this without the US

.

Those who would have us take on PRC alone gladden the hearts of the Cheen. They want to be able to pick us off one by one. Smaug snacks.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 03 Sep 2016 21:31

Anybody knows about what is happening on the membership front of Australia Group and Wassenaer Group?

Y. Kanan · Post by **Y. Kanan** » 04 Sep 2016 08:58

I'm disgusted with how many Indians support this criminal scum Hillary Clinton. Americans are ignorant but what the excuse for our seculars when we all have access to reports like this. Note this isn't some conspiracy website; it's all over their media, just not front page news:

Hillary financed by Saudi govt to the tune of $140,000/month
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/medea-ben ... 79826.html

If I told you that Democratic Party lobbyist Tony Podesta, whose brother John Podesta chairs Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign, is a registered foreign agent on the Saudi government’s payroll, you’d probably think I was a Trump-thumping, conspiratorial nutcase. But it’s true.

The lobby firm created by both Tony and John Podesta in 1988 receives $140,000 a month from the Saudi government, a government that beheads nonviolent dissidents, uses torture to extract forced confessions, doesn’t allow women to drive, and bombs schools, hospitals and residential neighborhoods in neighboring Yemen.

The Podesta Group’s March 2016 filing, required under the Foreign Agents Registration Act of 1938, shows that Tony Podesta himself oversees the Saudi account. At the same time, Tony Podesta is also a top campaign contributor and bundler for Hillary Clinton. So while one brother runs the campaign, the other brother funds it with earnings that come, in part, from the Saudis.

Avarachan · Post by **Avarachan** » 04 Sep 2016 09:29

If people do not want to vote for Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump, they can vote for Jill Stein or Gary Johnson. I think many Americans simply have never heard of Stein or Johnson. It's unfortunate.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 04 Sep 2016 10:29

schinnas wrote: What India has to gain by aligning with US? Lets see...
- Support for Balochistan, Sindhudesh and GB. Reduced support to Hurrirats.
- A seat in the table in Afghanistan to play out the end game.
- Better access to US mil tech, which while expensive is better than what Russia can deliver in the near to medium future.
- Veto support in UNSC... With Russia more and more economically dependent on China, it makes sense to have another ally with veto power.
- Access to restricted groups like Australia Group, Wassenaer group, MTCR (already happened), etc.
- better intel sharing against pigs and cheens.

Churchill, who was an alcoholic, once said that he got more out of alcohol than alcohol could get out of him. I hope India can say the same about the relationship with the US.
Gautam

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 04 Sep 2016 14:03

Avarachan wrote:If people do not want to vote for Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump, they can vote for Jill Stein or Gary Johnson. I think many Americans simply have never heard of Stein or Johnson. It's unfortunate.

I expect Johnson to not do too bad. Bernie supporters will vote for Johnson, so would republicans who dislike Trump. Remember Johnson is a card carrying Republican and so is his running mate. Both were governors and highly respected.

Hillary will win by fraud only. She is hated more than she is loved. Donald probably will scrape through.

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 04 Sep 2016 16:39

Y. Kanan wrote:I'm disgusted with how many Indians support this criminal scum Hillary Clinton.

Instead of being 'disgusted' perhaps that should tell you something of just how low their opinion of Donald Trump is.

The US executive operates within a system of checks and balances (legislature + judiciary). The US nuclear command authority in contrast is designed for speed and efficiency. Neither the Congress nor the Cabinet functions as a check on the President's authority to launch a nuclear weapon.

Minuteman III: 480 warheads
Trident II: 920 warheads
Air delivered: 80 warheads

That there is 1,480 reasons why most educated level headed people would support the the crooked career politician over the erratic impulsive thin-skinned narcissistic buffoon (every adjective well earned).

Far safer for the world for his finger to be on Twitter account rather than the nuclear trigger.

Americans are ignorant but what the excuse for our seculars when we all have access to reports like this. Note this isn't some conspiracy website; it's all over their media, just not front page news:

Hillary financed by Saudi govt to the tune of $140,000/month
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/medea-ben ... 79826.html

Riight.. question is did you lose just as much sleep when Trump appointed Paul Manafort as the CHAIRMAN of his presidential campaign?

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 04 Sep 2016 16:43

Top Trump aide lobbied for Pakistani spy front

Michael Isikoff
Chief Investigative Correspondent
April 18, 2016

For more than five years, Donald Trump’s new top campaign aide, Paul Manafort, lobbied for a Washington-based group that Justice Department prosecutors have charged operated as a front for Pakistan’s intelligence service, according to court and lobbying records reviewed by Yahoo News.

Manafort’s work in the 1990s as a registered lobbyist for the Kashmiri American Council was only one part of a wide-ranging portfolio that, over several decades, included a gallery of controversial foreign clients ranging from Philippine President Ferdinand Marcos and Zaire’s brutal dictator Mobutu Sese Seko to an Angolan rebel leader accused by human rights groups of torture. His role as an adviser to Ukraine’s then prime minister, Viktor Yanukovych, an ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin, prompted concerns within the Bush White House that he was undermining U.S. foreign policy. It was considered so politically toxic in 2008 that presidential candidate John McCain nixed plans for Manafort to manage the Republican National Convention — a move that caused a rupture between Manafort and his then business partner, Rick Davis, who at the time was McCain’s campaign manager.

Manafort’s work for the Kashmiri group has so far not gotten any media attention.

But it could fuel more questions about his years of lobbying for questionable foreign interests before Manafort, 67, assumed his new position as chief delegate counter and strategist for a presidential candidate who repeatedly decries the influence of Washington lobbyists and denounces the manipulation of U.S. policy by foreign governments.

Court records show that Manafort’s Kashmiri lobbying contract came on the FBI’s radar screen during a lengthy counterterrorism investigation that culminated in 2011 with the arrest of the Kashmiri council’s director, Syed Ghulam Nabi Fai, on charges that he ran the group on behalf of Pakistan’s intelligence service, the ISI, as part of a scheme to secretly influence U.S. policy toward the disputed territory of Kashmir.

The Kashmiri American Council was a “scam” that amounted to a “false flag operation that Mr. Fai was operating on behalf of the ISI,” Gordon D. Kromberg, the assistant U.S. attorney who prosecuted the case, said in March 2012 at Fai’s sentencing hearing in federal court. While posing as a U.S.-based nonprofit funded by American donors sympathetic to the plight of Kashmiris, it was actually bankrolled by the ISI in order to deflect public attention “away from the involvement of Pakistan in sponsoring terrorism in Kashmir and elsewhere,” Kromberg said. Fai, who pleaded guilty to conspiracy and tax fraud charges, was then sentenced to two years in federal prison.

Lobbying records filed with the secretary of the Senate show that Manafort’s lobbying firm, Black, Manafort, Stone & Kelly, was paid $700,000 by the Kashmiri American Council between 1990 and 1995. This was among more than $4 million that federal prosecutors alleged came from the ISI; Fai collected the money over 20 years from “straw” American donors who were being reimbursed from secret accounts in Pakistan. (The funds were in some cases delivered to Fai in brown paper bags stuffed with cash — and then the donors reimbursed with wire transfers from ISI operatives, according to an FBI affidavit.)

Manafort, who handled the Kashmiri account for his firm, was never charged in the case, and Kromberg told Yahoo News that what knowledge, if any, he had of the secret source of money from his client was not part of the Justice Department’s investigation. (While registering with Congress as a domestic lobbyist for the Kashmiri American Council, Manafort never registered with the U.S. Justice Department as a foreign agent of Pakistan, as he would have been required to do if he was aware of the ISI funding of his client.)

But a former senior Pakistani official, who asked not to be identified, told Yahoo News that there was never any doubt on Pakistan’s part that Manafort knew of his government’s role in backing the Kashmiri council. The former official said that during a trip from Islamabad in 1994 he met with Manafort and Fai in Manafort’s office in Alexandria, Va., “to review strategy and plans” for the council. Manafort, at the meeting, presented plans to influence members of Congress to back Pakistan’s case for a plebiscite for Kashmir (the largest portion of which has been part of India since 1947), he said. (Internal budget documents later obtained by the FBI show plans by the council to spend $80,000 to $100,000 a year on campaign contributions to members of Congress.) “There is no way Manafort didn’t know that Pakistan was involved with” the council, the former official said, although he added: “Some things are not explicitly stated.”

Neither Manafort nor the Trump campaign responded to requests for comment for this story. (“I’m not working for any client right now other than working for Mr. Trump,” Manafort recently said on NBC’s “Meet the Press” when asked by moderator Chuck Todd about his past “controversial” clients.)

But Manafort’s former partner Charlie Black, now an adviser to rival Republican presidential candidate John Kasich, said that as far as the firm was concerned, the Kashmiri council was a domestic, not a foreign, client. “Nobody was more surprised than me that the guy was taking the money from Pakistan,” Black said in a telephone interview. “We didn’t know anything about it.”

But there was no doubt on the part of the Indian government about where the money was coming from. Its officials repeatedly alleged that the Kashmiri council was a front group for Pakistan during the period that Manafort’s firm was lobbying for it. The issue blew up in September 1993 after Manafort and one of his lobbying associates, Riva Levinson, traveled to Kashmir and, according to Indian officials, posed as CNN reporters in an effort to gather video footage of interviews with Kashmiri officials.

“The whole thing was obviously a blatant operation of producing television software with a deliberate and particularly anti-Indian slant by lobbyists hired by Pakistan for this very purpose,” Shiv Shankar, then the Indian Foreign Ministry spokesman, said in a letter to CNN in Atlanta at the time. (Levinson did not respond to a request for comment from Yahoo News. At the time she denied the Indian allegations, telling a UPI reporter, “We never misrepresented ourselves as journalists.”)

Exactly what Manafort did for the Kashmiri council is unclear from the sketchy lobbying reports his firm filed with the secretary of the Senate. Those reports show his firm first registered as lobbyists for the group in October 1990, the same year the group was founded by Fai. The reports list little beyond the purpose of the lobbying: to seek support for a House resolution by then-Rep. Dan Burton to sponsor a “peaceful resolution” of the Kashmir dispute. They also show payments to the firm of $140,000 a year. (During this time, Black, Manafort had a long list of other domestic clients that included the NRA, the Tobacco Institute and the Trump Organization, which paid the firm $70,000 a year to lobby Congress on casino gambling, aviation and tax issues, according to the lobbying records.)

“We went to the Hill for them to raise the profile of the [Kashmiri] cause,” said Black about the firm’s work for Fai’s council. “But nobody in Bush 41 [the administration of George H.W. Bush] or the Clinton administration wanted to touch it. We never got any real attention for it.”

The FBI came across evidence that ISI was actually not pleased with Manafort’s work. The bureau’s investigation began in 2005 with a tip from a confidential informant (who was seeking a reduced prison term) that Fai and an associate in Pakistan, Zaheer Ahmad, were agents of the ISI. As part of the probe, agents obtained secret national security warrants to wiretap Fai’s communications; they also searched his home and offices. Among the evidence they seized: a December 1995 letter from Fai’s main ISI handler, identified as a Pakistani Army brigadier general named Javeed Aziz Khan, who went by the name of “Abdullah,” that criticized Fai for renewing a contract with a public relations firm, according to the FBI affidavit from a counterterrorism agent, Sarah Webb Linden, that was filed to support Fai’s detention in July 2011.

Eight months later, at Fai’s sentencing hearing, prosecutor Kromberg for the first time identified the public relations firm as Black, Manafort, according to court records. He then detailed a dispute between Fai and his ISI handler over the Black, Manafort contract. Fai wrote back to Khan the next day insisting that the ISI official had in fact approved the renewal of the contract and noted that to “make it appear” that the council was a Kashmiri organization “financed by Americans,” there was a preexisting agreement that nobody from the Pakistani Embassy would ever contact Black, Manafort, said Kromberg. But Fai was overruled, according to Kromberg’s account. The ISI handler wrote back to Fai stating that that “‘we’ — a reference to the ISI — were unsatisfied with the performance of Black, Manafort & Stone, and advised Fai to terminate the contract immediately,” according to a transcript of Kromberg’s statement to the court.

Meanwhile, the FBI pursued even more alarming allegations relating to Ahmad, Fai’s Pakistan-based associate. According to a ProPublica account, the bureau questioned witnesses about a trip that Ahmad had allegedly made to Afghanistan with a Pakistani nuclear scientist, Sultan Bashiruddin Mahmood; the scientist was suspecting of having met with Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri in August 2001 to discuss the terror leaders’ interest in acquiring nuclear weapons.

Manafort, for his part, appears to have expanded his business connections in Pakistan. In 2013 he acknowledged to French investigators that, in 1994, he had received $86,000 from two arms dealers involved in the sale of French attack submarines to Pakistan’s navy. The payments were part of an arrangement to compensate Manafort for political advice and polling he provided to French presidential candidate Édouard Balladur — one part of a wide-ranging French investigation into alleged kickbacks from arms sales dubbed by the French press “the Karachi affair.”

One puzzling question about the Kashmir case is why, six years after the investigation began, the FBI decided to arrest Fai in 2011. One explanation, a source familiar with the case said, is that it came during a period of mounting tensions between the United States and Pakistan, much of it due to concerns among U.S. national security officials about the “double game” being played by the ISI. In May of that year, President Obama ordered the U.S. raid that killed bin Laden without informing the Pakistani military, in part because of fears that elements of the ISI (an arm of the military) might have been protecting the al-Qaida leader. Just weeks later, federal prosecutors in Chicago presented damning testimony in federal court that an ISI handler had directed one of the confessed conspirators in the 2008 terrorist attack in Mumbai — which killed 164 people, including six Americans — that was perpetrated by Lashkar-e-Taiba, a Pakistani-based group with links to al-Qaida committed to “liberating” Muslims from Indian rule in Kashmir.

Then, on July 18, after Fai returned from a trip to the United Kingdom, the FBI confronted him for the third time about whether he had any connections to the ISI — and he denied it. Fai was arrested, and he and Ahmad (who remained in Pakistan and died later that year) were charged in federal court with being unregistered foreign agents of Pakistan.

From 1994.

Public-Relations Ethics Questioned as Some Agents Pose as Journalists : Information: Deception violates PR code, but critics say it's common nonetheless.

December 04, 1994|JIM DRINKARD | ASSOCIATED PRESS

WASHINGTON — Late last year, two lobbyists from a top Washington firm teamed with a camera crew to get interviews in India's volatile Kashmir region. The Indian government says they were posing as journalists with Cable News Network.

The two, Paul Manafort and Riva Levinson, arrived in India on tourist visas that gave no hint they were working for the Kashmiri American Foundation, a group New Delhi views as a front for rival Pakistan.

Critics of the public relations field and some veterans of the field say such deception happens too often and is symptomatic of a system in which public relations goals justify questionable means to sell an idea.

Those who can afford professional PR services, and the increasingly sophisticated technology they offer, gain tremendous advantage in the public debate.

They are able to win television exposure, impact news coverage and use the mail to circulate pictures, statistics and data favorable to their positions. The current debate over health care, for example, has brought a business boom to Washington's public relations firms.

But the data circulated may carry few clues about the financial interests behind it--knowledge that could help an information-soaked audience sort out just what to believe about an issue.

"Practically the entire foundation of public relations is, to a degree, to deceive," said Susan B. Trento, author of a book on public relations giant Hill & Knowlton.

"They try to secretly manipulate people's opinions and views, and the government's reaction or response to it," Trento said.

Manafort and Levinson, of the firm Black, Manafort, Stone & Kelly, deny they posed as CNN reporters, and a colleague said their footage was never used.

But the Indian government publicly protested and formally notified CNN's Atlanta headquarters. Network officials say they have no reason to doubt the episode occurred, and a regional journalists' association passed a resolution deploring it.

One prize public relations target is hearings on Capitol Hill. They not only attract extensive news coverage, but also offer the imprimatur of an official source--Congress. For lawmakers, the forums are a chance to air questions about policy issues and get a little publicity.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 04 Sep 2016 18:43

Well manafort is gone now.

Even if he was still in the campaign, if his Russian links were overlooked, fat chance of ISI links being an issue.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 04 Sep 2016 18:57

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politic ... -1.2777211
EXCLUSIVE: Donald Trump made millions from Saudi Arabia, but trashes Hillary Clinton for Saudi donations to Clinton Foundation
Donald Trump has blasted Hillary Clinton for accepting money from Saudi Arabia through her foundation, but a Daily News investigation reveals he has padded his bank account with cash from the same country.
...
“Would you take money from the Saudis?” Fox News’ Sean Hannity asked recently.
“No,” Trump replied.
.....
He told a different story last year.
“Saudi Arabia — and I get along great with all of them. They buy apartments from me,” Trump said in Mobile, Ala.
“They spend $40 million, $50 million. Am I supposed to dislike them? I like them very much.”.....
Gautam