India-US relations: News and Discussions III

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ramana
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby ramana » 27 May 2017 11:15

Zbig is dead at age 89.

He was NSA for Jimmy Carter.
Started Afghan jihad.

Wrote Grand Chessboard.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Singha » 27 May 2017 12:18

How old is that other pseudo paki warlord kissingerji?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby panduranghari » 27 May 2017 12:31

94.

These guys must be vampires blessed with longevity.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Paul » 27 May 2017 12:34

93 or 94......Zbignew was the original thinker hence more dangerous. The son of a polish diplomat stationed in Canada at the invasion of Poland by Germany. His hatred for Russia had no limits. He along with the Polish pope architected the breakdown of the Berlin wall and led the calamity of Islam befalling the west. He was for Ayotollahs taking over Iran to light a fire under USSR's chair.

In aftermath of 911 he actively lobbied to make sure nobody has free license to attack Islamic countries like India-Pakistan.

Remember those discussions on C-SPAN to this day.

Poland must be real proud of him.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby A_Gupta » 27 May 2017 17:12

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... ay/528327/
The second remarkable thing that happened that day was the publication by The Wall Street Journal of a report detailing direct contacts between a Republican political operative and Russian hackers. The Florida-based Republican, Aaron Nevins, received and published Russian-hacked material—and in return, advised the hackers how to release their material to increase its damage to Democratic candidates. Nevins was not himself a high-ranking person in the Republican world. But the information Nevins obtained from Guccifer 2.0 was used by other Republican campaigns, including the national Republican congressional effort and Paul Ryan’s own super PAC. The earlier claim that Republicans were purely passive and unwitting beneficiaries of Russian espionage in the 2016 election has now been pierced. In at least one instance, the cooperation was active, conscious, and initiated on the American side, not the Russian: collusion, in a word.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby UlanBatori » 27 May 2017 18:17

There must be filibusters going on all the time in Houristan to keep these from coming in. Kissinger I project will still be around in 2101.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Singha » 28 May 2017 12:15

Hallowed elders of the coven...
A circle above and beyond the deep state high council

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Lalmohan » 28 May 2017 13:59

careful or you will end up in the elders of zion territory...

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby darshan » 28 May 2017 20:31

Paul wrote:93 or 94......Zbignew was the original thinker hence more dangerous. The son of a polish diplomat stationed in Canada at the invasion of Poland by Germany. His hatred for Russia had no limits.

Poland must be real proud of him.


OT.
Will Mother India see anyone like Zbig when it comes to UK and KSA? Hopefully yes.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby UlanBatori » 29 May 2017 02:14

Question is how will India treat such a person who actually thinks. It is easy to be a celebrated "thinker" if you are a genocidal nutcase who is employed by a superpower that can destroy the whole world 100 times over and has a few CBGs and a fleet of B-52s.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby darshan » 29 May 2017 08:54

Comment was not as much about being celebrated "thinker" but rather about remembering your history, knowing your enemies, and not allowing bad deeds go unpunished. Sometimes I think that the 15th August has started looking more and more like 4th July. No remembrance or discussion about what British had done.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby sudeepj » 29 May 2017 09:22

UlanBatori wrote:Question is how will India treat such a person who actually thinks. It is easy to be a celebrated "thinker" if you are a genocidal nutcase who is employed by a superpower that can destroy the whole world 100 times over and has a few CBGs and a fleet of B-52s.


Genocidal nutcase? Usual third worldism. The chap put in place a strategy using which the United States was able to defeat an existential enemy without losing many of its citizens in the process. While developing vast markets and laying the foundations for the prosperity enjoyed by its citizens for two generations now. Compared to the damage that could have been inflicted by the USSR, 9/11 and the later wars are mere pin pricks.

I can only wish India gets as ruthless and as farsighted a strategist as Zbig or Kissinger.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Singha » 29 May 2017 10:43

their farsightedness kicked the can down the road and created a new monster with far more resiliency and long term danger than the ussr with its puny economy and lack of integration into world trade could ever be - China :mrgreen: great masterstroke by kissinger that.

their farsightedness has also created the wahabi cancer on the world, 9/11 being just a small 'incident' in the time continuum.

europe-usa were largest trading partners, racial brothers and good allies before these gents were born...eg in WW1.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby chetak » 29 May 2017 10:52

Singha wrote:their farsightedness kicked the can down the road and created a new monster with far more resiliency and long term danger than the ussr with its puny economy and lack of integration into world trade could ever be - China :mrgreen: great masterstroke by kissinger that.

their farsightedness has also created the wahabi cancer on the world, 9/11 being just a small 'incident' in the time continuum.

europe-usa were largest trading partners, racial brothers and good allies before these gents were born.


the wily europeans continued to free ride the amreki gravy train for decades, all the while saving money on their defence expenditures while successive amreki presidents kept quiet.

Trump has rightly called them out and told them exactly what's what and they don't like it one bit, especially when the russian bear is on the prowl and is eying europe hungrily in economic and political terms.

let europe fight their own battles and also pay for them.

The europeans made the amreki as pointman to arm twist and get India to sign the disastrous climate bill when Modi had grave reservations. Now, even we can pull out, whether the amerkis stay or not.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby UlanBatori » 29 May 2017 16:59

Genocidal nutcase? Usual third worldism. The chap put in place a strategy using which the United States was able to defeat an existential enemy without losing many of its citizens in the process. While developing vast markets and laying the foundations for the prosperity enjoyed by its citizens for two generations now. Compared to the damage that could have been inflicted by the USSR, 9/11 and the later wars are mere pin pricks. I can only wish India gets as ruthless and as farsighted a strategist as Zbig or Kissinger.


Than you for exhibiting your common mutu dhimmi idiocy, since we are into such honest personal opinion expressions. The strategy was put in place by someone else. The avoidance of nuclear war was ensured by someone else. The markets were developed by someone else. The prosperity was developed by the hard work of someone else. These pricks' "achievements" were:
1) Arm the Taliban in Afghanistan - that caused millions of deaths and continuing misery.
2) Facilitate the genocide of over 3 million, mostly Hindus, in East Pakistan
3) Bomb Cambodia and facilitate the rise of the Khmer Rouge, leading to millions of deaths.
4) Directly lead to the collapse of all US moral grounds in the Vietnam war, and thence to utter defeat of the US in Southeast Asia, leading to the rise of Communists or worse over all except South Korea and Taiwan - and Taiwan is practically gone by now.
5) Surrender to Red China and allow it to become the world's #1 superpower.

From his resume: Zbsdsfsdgge Brzssgsereweeki
served as a counselor to President Lyndon B. Johnson from 1966 to 1968 and was President Jimmy Carter's National Security Advisor from 1977 to 1981.


1966 to 1968 was the worst policy-making in American defense history, leading to utter defeat in Vietnam, after the cost of millions and millions dead, maimed and impoverished. Had the US negotiated a peace instead in 1966, South Vietnam today would be at least as powerful and free as South Korea. Probably reunited with North Vietnam on democratic terms.

1977 to 1981 was the worst of Jimmy Carter's "Defense Strategy". Actually Carter got kicked out in November 1980, IIRC, so this was only until Ronald Reagan kicked him out in 1981.

By the time Carter left, America had essentially lost the "Cold War" and it was turning hot in the Middle East: Iran, once a friend of the US, had been taken over by Islamists. And in Afghanistan, Carter had already make the fatal mistake of not recognizing that the Soviets were fighting a common enemy of the US.

In a nutcaseshell, Zbigrinski got the US into unwinnable wars against the wrong people, and Kissmyassinger sacrificed millions upon millions of innocent lives to sell America down the river to the Commies. Great "strategy" indeed! :rotfl:

Reagan basically reversed all of the idiocy of both Zbigrinski and Kissmyassinger, and used REAL defense strategy - tossing aside the MAD "strategy" of just building more nuke warheads and throw weight - and drove the Soviet Union into bankruptcy. Of course it was too late to save the situation in Afghanistan and China.

If India had idiots like those two at the helm of policy-making, ISIS would be ISIHIS and you would have, well, a sharper mijjile or none at all. :mrgreen:

In future, if you decide to try posting, please start by doing some research, and consider acquiring something to do some thinking with. Thanks.
Last edited by UlanBatori on 29 May 2017 17:07, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Yagnasri » 29 May 2017 17:04

That honest fellow Carter is a class I-Idiot who do not know a&& from the elbow and planted the seeds of for today's jihadis. Now Obomber and Billary did pore water and fertiliser to that.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby UlanBatori » 29 May 2017 17:38

This business of "honest" Carter is also like "honest" George Washington stories. OK, he did not steal for his own empire/relatives, but he was surrounded by shady characters, and his thinking was about as intellectually dishonest as it gets. The guy was/is ultimately a bigot, just one with a big smile.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Cosmo_R » 29 May 2017 19:10

I remind you of the goofy, stumbling/idiotic stuff that happened during the Carter era:

1. Banzai Bunny
https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/201 ... my-carter/

2. The 'Trip' to Poland

http://content.time.com/time/specials/p ... 27,00.html

3. The Open mic

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india/jim ... mXkYO.html

4. Amy Carter

During the debate with Reagan:

“I had a discussion with my daughter, Amy, the other day, before I came here, to ask her what the most important issue was,” he told the audience. “She said she thought nuclear weaponry and the control of nuclear arms.”

Unfortunately for Jimmy, Amy was 13-years-old at the time.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby UlanBatori » 29 May 2017 19:29

Should have taken Amy's advice instead of Zbigot's

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby JE Menon » 29 May 2017 19:52

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5b-I1AJnuo

Don't know if this was posted here. Former Ambassador David Mulford on India's prospects. Not a new one, but worth watching. It's high clarity stuff on from the American side. It is dudes like him who have an impact behind the scenes.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby UlanBatori » 29 May 2017 20:28

Excellent find, thanks!

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby JE Menon » 29 May 2017 20:45

UB,

I have never heard an US official with such clarity on India. Listen after the 58th minute, how he speaks of Pakistan (he does before as well, but the key part is over there). Stunning bluntness.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby UlanBatori » 29 May 2017 21:20

Oops. I stopped around there when the first long-winded "question" came. Will go back and listen - I have sent it on to some people and it will be linked in due course from business / Chamber of Commerce type sites. He speaks with the language of a major Fund Manager, which is his job and his intended audience.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby sudeepj » 29 May 2017 22:11

UlanBatori wrote:
Genocidal nutcase? Usual third worldism. The chap put in place a strategy using which the United States was able to defeat an existential enemy without losing many of its citizens in the process. While developing vast markets and laying the foundations for the prosperity enjoyed by its citizens for two generations now. Compared to the damage that could have been inflicted by the USSR, 9/11 and the later wars are mere pin pricks. I can only wish India gets as ruthless and as farsighted a strategist as Zbig or Kissinger.


Than you for exhibiting your common mutu dhimmi idiocy, since we are into such honest personal opinion expressions. The strategy was put in place by someone else. The avoidance of nuclear war was ensured by someone else. The markets were developed by someone else. The prosperity was developed by the hard work of someone else. These pricks' "achievements" were:
1) Arm the Taliban in Afghanistan - that caused millions of deaths and continuing misery.
2) Facilitate the genocide of over 3 million, mostly Hindus, in East Pakistan
3) Bomb Cambodia and facilitate the rise of the Khmer Rouge, leading to millions of deaths.
4) Directly lead to the collapse of all US moral grounds in the Vietnam war, and thence to utter defeat of the US in Southeast Asia, leading to the rise of Communists or worse over all except South Korea and Taiwan - and Taiwan is practically gone by now.
5) Surrender to Red China and allow it to become the world's #1 superpower.

...


Yes, their policies created great misery including in Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Cambodia, but very little for the American people. They served American interests, as defined by American politicians and capitalists well. So far, Amercan lives lost to Islamists numbers less than 25,000. The real fight with the Soviets was not in Afghanistan, it was fought at the gas station, and there, the collaboration with the Islamists and the Wahhabis in Saudi paid off. It was Ghawar oil at $40 a barrel that did the Russians/Soviets in. Further, the money went to ignoramus Sheikhs who had no better use for it than to buy American made luxury goods and show piece weapons.

If you cant see how brilliant this strategy was, you might be wearing third worlder glasses.

In future, if you decide to try posting, please start by doing some research, and consider acquiring something to do some thinking with. Thanks.


{edited}
Last edited by ramana on 31 May 2017 02:30, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited. Ramana

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby SSridhar » 30 May 2017 07:06

sudeepj, what is this constant reference to 'third world'? If you are so irritated by 'third worldism', then there is no need to visit BRf.

You get a warning now.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Yagnasri » 30 May 2017 09:20

Am I wrong in assuming that GOP presidents in the last few decades have comparatively a better understanding of the global strategic aspects than Dem Presidents? Comparitively is the main word here. While both made terrible mistakes, the GOP leadership seems to be comparatively less idiotic.

Of course, Golden Monkey may prove me wrong.

GOP strangely did better to cultivate India also.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby chetak » 30 May 2017 09:29

JE Menon wrote:UB,

I have never heard an US official with such clarity on India. Listen after the 58th minute, how he speaks of Pakistan (he does before as well, but the key part is over there). Stunning bluntness.


JE Menon, saar.

Thanks.

Its posts like this that makes folks keep coming back to BRF in the hope of finding more such nuggets.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Rudradev » 30 May 2017 09:41

Yagnasri wrote:Am I wrong in assuming that GOP presidents in the last few decades have comparatively a better understanding of the global strategic aspects than Dem Presidents? Comparitively is the main word here. While both made terrible mistakes, the GOP leadership seems to be comparatively less idiotic.

Of course, Golden Monkey may prove me wrong.

GOP strangely did better to cultivate India also.

Yes, I am afraid you are wrong.

Both GOP and Dems are completely Islam-pasand (specifically Sunni, Wahhabi-Salafi). Both invested equally in Sunni Islamism as a proxy "non-state" strategic arm. Both failed to control it adequately, yet both continue to attempt the same failed methods of manipulating it. This goes on through deep state machinations independently of which party the President is from.

The difference for India is that GOP is far more EJ pasand than Dems, and hence worse from Hindu point of view.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby sudeepj » 30 May 2017 21:15

SSridhar wrote:sudeepj, what is this constant reference to 'third world'? If you are so irritated by 'third worldism', then there is no need to visit BRf.

You get a warning now.


Its the same old Nehruvian stance and an overly moral perspective without understanding the constraints and the objectives that shaped policies of major powers. Yes, zbig/ksgr were wicked, yes they were evil. I hope Indian officers and intellectuals learn to be as wicked and as evil in pursuit of our foreign policy, which must be as amoral as that practiced by these people. 3rd worldism is not behaving as a normal state, which should change its foreign policies based on its economic and strategic interests, instead being guided by some vague and poorly defined notions of third world solidarity.

Yes, Americans killed millions of Cambodians and Vietnamese. Why should that concern us?

Yes, Americans benefited China. That should concern us, but why were our leaders not able to extract the same benefits out of them? That should concern us even more.

Yes, British/Americans virtually sustained Pakistan. But why were our leaders not able to sort out where British/American interests were, and why were they unable to make reasonable compromises in their ideology to keep the country intact?

Yes, British/Americans sustained Wahabbism, as long as we are able to keep Wahabbis out of our land, why should that concern us?

Leaders putting their personal egos, and their personal ideas of morality above amoral national interest is what I call third world-ism. I am sorry if the word offends you. Had I used Nehruvian, I suspect your reaction would have been different. To me, the words are interchangeable as is the attitude.

And you dont need to fight that mongloids battles, let him defend his ideas on his own. Running to the mods only shows he can dish it out, but cant take it. Glass chin. So Nehruvian.

PS: Now that I have explained whats meant by 3rd worldism, and my view is exactly aligned with Indian interests, can you please retract the warning? :-)

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Cosmo_R » 30 May 2017 22:19

JE Menon wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5b-I1AJnuo

Don't know if this was posted here. Former Ambassador David Mulford on India's prospects. Not a new one, but worth watching. It's high clarity stuff on from the American side. It is dudes like him who have an impact behind the scenes.


David Mulford is sharper than Merkel's elbows, he's one guy I would not want to run into in a well lit alley.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby UlanBatori » 30 May 2017 22:21

[Edited]
Last edited by ramana on 31 May 2017 02:31, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited. Ramana

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby sudeepj » 30 May 2017 22:28

[Edited]
Last edited by ramana on 31 May 2017 02:31, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited. Ramana

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby UlanBatori » 30 May 2017 22:30

Thanks for the laughs this morning.. :rotfl:

If you are so sensitive about your health, your age, and a comment on your intelligence, perhaps, next time, dont call people mutu or dhimmi or pakis or any other abuse? yes?

Have a nice day now. And get over it.. Its just an internet post expressing an opinion different from yours. :-)

Just preserving the reaction of the creep.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby sudeepj » 30 May 2017 22:44

UlanBatori wrote:
Thanks for the laughs this morning.. :rotfl:

If you are so sensitive about your health, your age, and a comment on your intelligence, perhaps, next time, dont call people mutu or dhimmi or pakis or any other abuse? yes?

Have a nice day now. And get over it.. Its just an internet post expressing an opinion different from yours. :-)

Just preserving the reaction of the creep.


I am not going to delete it.. feel free to make copies/screenshots etc. If your father really passed away in those circumstances and you are not a total asshole inventing a story to grab some sympathy and fool mods, I am sorry about him and your loss. Now seriously, get over my admiration of zbig/ksgr's foreign policy, perhaps try to address your own emotional and hair trigger anger issues?

I feel that zbig/ksgr ruthless pursuit of US national interest and the way they cornered the USSR teaches us something and to not look at those aspects of their careers is simply being, Nehruvian. Fwiw, at least some in the IFS agree. Disagreement with this point of view can be made without calling people mutu/dhimmi/paki.

Now take a deep breath! We dont want you to collapse!

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Garooda » 30 May 2017 23:55

sudeepj wrote:Disagreement with this point of view can be made without calling people mutu/dhimmi/paki.
Agree completely. I'm also surprised at the OT topics unrelated to India-US relations are allowed to be discussed on this thread.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby CRamS » 31 May 2017 01:46

Guys, I had a terrific laugh, although I felt ashamed, watching one of the DDM shows. The Bimbo anchor always wanting to pick a bone with BJP, and of course as is customary with all such elite Bimbos in India, they are obsessed with US. So on the show talking about ModiJi's visit to Germany, as usual the hype and crap about India replacing US as a partner to Germany. I mean how laughable is this. Then the Bimbo went on to ask ask another white Bimbo, Amy whatever, mouthpiece for the Financial Times on Trump's view of India. I've seen her getting bombarded with this question many-a-times. I guess unable to take it anymore (when her principal job is to file drain inspector reports about India to her white Christian readers back home), she politely told the Bimbo anchor, Trump hardly ever thinks about India in his vision so don't be so obsessed :-). As I said, its is tragic to witness the obsession Indian elites have, but it is worth a laugh when someone like Amy tells them that we (US) hardly think about you.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby ramana » 31 May 2017 02:26

UB you should report posts and not retort to other members.

Let admins do their job.

ramana

You get a warning.
SudeepJ gets two weeks ban.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby chanakyaa » 31 May 2017 07:18

JE Menon wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5b-I1AJnuo

Don't know if this was posted here. Former Ambassador David Mulford on India's prospects. Not a new one, but worth watching. It's high clarity stuff on from the American side. It is dudes like him who have an impact behind the scenes.

JEM, it is a good clip. Mulford being more aligned with the banking industry (Credit Suisse) before and after his ambassadorship, appears to be a very reasonable person. In banking, nobody is good or bad. Past behavior simply reflects in higher or lower interest rate. I disagree with the view on speech's "clarity". Most of his agreements or disagreements with GoI or Modi govt. are purely advancing his domicile's business interest. Nothing wrong with that, but most of his suggestions or opinions are very obvious and directional. About his acceptance that "they" knew about Pukistan's involvement in Mumbai attacks; well, it is nice to know, but ground realities vis-a-vis Baki and uncle relationship never changed after than, attacks in various forms continued. Secondly, he completely dodged the question of the odds of Pukistan being considered a terr-orist state, by saying that it should have been done long time ago. Well, then why didn't you do it a$$whole. To be fair, he may have good intentions and he may not have enough power to get some of those things done, but that is exactly why it is "just another nice speech". He is just an "actor" (perhaps with some nominal power to influence), who is part of his employer's "good cop/bad cop" strategy, thats all.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Paul » 31 May 2017 12:36

Zbignew's loyalties lay with Poland...not the US. In this aspect he advanced Polish interests very well. Poland is even insulated from Islamic scourge by Russia and SE Europe.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby A_Gupta » 01 Jun 2017 00:13

https://www.theatlantic.com/internation ... mp/528609/
Since 1945, American leaders have based policy on two facts: a zone of cooperation encompassing democratic, rule-of-law states; a zone of completion between the group of democracies and other groups on this planet. Within the zone of cooperation, the usual frictions and disagreements of international life were to be managed by rules, especially trade rules, adjudicated by neutral arbiters. The ultimate expression of national power—military force—would be put utterly beyond the realm of things to be contemplated. But even such less-extreme manifestations of sovereignty as intelligence gathering would be done collectively, as if in this area the five closest democracies—the U.S., the U.K., Canada, Australia, and New Zealand—almost formed one government.

The national egoism that had inflicted so much suffering before 1945 would be suppressed on a new vision in which international politics would come to look more and more like domestic politics.

This vision was not always achieved of course. There were and are many disputes even between friends. But the theory of the case was that within the democratic world, cross-border cooperation would be regarded as the norm and the ideal; state-versus-state competition would be abnormal and unwelcome. All established democracies at least formally committed themselves to trade regimes based on the principle of gains from exchange.


This is the vision that the Cohn/McMaster op-ed rejects.


But here is the truest tell. You can have friends. Or you can have people you work with only when your immediate interests align. Those are not the same thing. The Cohn/McMaster op-ed uses the word “friend”—without ever making clear who belongs to that category—but its logic is that of a nation friendless and alone. Perhaps the most terrifying thing about the Trump presidency is the way even its most worldly figures, in words composed for them by its deepest thinkers, have reimagined the United States in the image of their own chief: selfish, isolated, brutish, domineering, and driven by immediate appetites rather than ideals or even longer-term interests.

Like Trump himself, this general and this financier who speak for him know only the language of command, not of respect. They summon partners to join them "to enhance American security, promote American prosperity, and extend American influence around the world”—and never anticipate or answer the question, “Why should we British, French, Germans, Canadians, Australians, and on and on through the catalogue of your disrespected allies join that project?


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