India-US relations: News and Discussions III

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby ramana » 01 Jun 2017 00:36

So where is that Cohn-McMaster op-ed?


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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby rsingh » 02 Jun 2017 01:44

Trump is on fire. Calls China and India biggest polluters. Taunts europeans, NGOs .......anybody in sight.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Lalmohan » 02 Jun 2017 03:04

...and conveniently twists and spins the facts... in the end the base are hearing what they want to hear and they will remain placid enough whilst the privateers fill their boots

meanwhile, the rest of G7-15 will develop clean tech and carry on regardless towards the future whilst trump land and the swamp cleaners turn the clock backwards on industrial and environmental progress...

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Mort Walker » 02 Jun 2017 04:18

^^^You are mistaking climate change and environmental pollution. Two different things.

I hope India can now pull out of the Paris Accord nonsense too. No reason to constrain the economy. India needs lots of cheap electricity and transportation fuel. It need not come at the cost of the environment. Do what is economically viable and not on some nonsense to limit CO2.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby CRamS » 02 Jun 2017 05:01

rsingh wrote:Trump is on fire. Calls China and India biggest polluters. Taunts europeans, NGOs .......anybody in sight.


Crude white nationalism at play. The moron I doubt knows anything about climate change.

But one thing I like about rise of Trump. US has always been imperialistic bully couched in the language of noble intentions. Trump is laying bare that facade. So other countries like India can also proclaim their interests instead of some bogus "globalization" and "international law" all of which were just front ends to further US interests.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Amber G. » 02 Jun 2017 10:15

Virtually everything this POTUS does is motivated by spite and powered by stupidity. .. (There is a op ed worth reading: Trump Gratuitously Rejects the Paris Climate Accord)

Meanwhile Modi and India is not amused..

Trump rant against India casts shadow on PM Modi visit to US

[quote]WASHINGTON: US President Donald Trump unloaded on India among other countries during an epic rant on Thursday while announcing American withdrawal from the Paris climate change accord+ .
The shrill speech, replete with claims of American victimhood at the hands of the rest of the world, casts a chill on Prime Minister Narendra Modi's expected visit to the White House later this month.
Phone and cables lines between Washington and New Delhi were buzzing on Thursday evening (Friday am in India) as Indian officials and diplomats took stock of Trump's direct, no-holds-barred attack in which he accused New Delhi of trying to extract "billions and billions and billions" of dollars in foreign aid from the developed world to sign up for the climate accord+ .
Although dates for the Prime Minister's trip have not been formally or officially announced, the White House has penciled in June 26-27 for the first face-to-face meeting between Trump and Modi+ . That expected meeting, if it comes through, will now take place under a cloud of misgivings, including the Trump administration's crackdown of guest worker visas that is adversely affecting Indian businesses, its squeeze on US manufacturing abroad that is forcing a scaling down of US investment in India, and now its withdrawal from the climate change accord after previous administrations dragged New Delhi kicking and screaming into it.
Although no one is talking of canceling the visit yet, Trump's harsh critiques have cooled the expected ardor between Washington and New Delhi that a small constituency of Trump bhakts+ in both countries had anticipated and forecast.
Trump repeatedly raged against India, China, and rest of the world on Thursday, casting the US as a victim of global machinations.
"India makes its participation contingent on receiving billions and billions and billions of dollars in foreign aid from developed countries," he fumed in a 27-minute, 3000-word tirade in the White House Rose Garden while declaring that the "bottom line is that the Paris Accord is very unfair, at the highest level, to the United States."

No other developed country has made that allegation, and in fact, the US stands isolated even in the developed world following its withdrawal.
The US President then went on to claim that India will be allowed to double its coal production by 2020 and China will be allowed to build hundreds of additional coal plants, but the US can't under the Paris agreement.
"Think of it: India can double their coal production. We're supposed to get rid of ours," the US President fumed, arguing that "compliance with the terms of the Paris Accord and the onerous energy restrictions it has placed on the US could cost America as much as 2.7 million lost jobs by 2025" - figures that are contested even within the US.
"In short, the agreement doesn't eliminate coal jobs, it just transfers those jobs out of America and ships them to foreign countries," Trump maintained in remarks that did not once refer to the fact that the United States has historically been the world's biggest polluter with the largest carbon footprint in the global community, and the rest of the world, and the US itself, has had to pay for American profligacy and addiction to hydro-carbons.
Trump's claim that India was seeking "billions and billions and billions" was also typical of the hyperbolic falsehoods he is often indulges in. Total foreign aid to India in 2015 was only $3.1 billion, with US aid to India only around $100 million. This is being whittled down to $34 million in 2018, pocket change for one of India's unicorns.


Compared to the peanuts in US aid (which New Delhi prefers is completely stopped), India buys $100 million worth of California almonds alone every year, besides billions in armaments. India also receives many times more in foreign investment and remittances than foreign aid.

But expanding on the victimhood thesis, Trump argued that the Paris Accord "is less about the climate and more about other countries gaining a financial advantage over the United States."

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Singha » 02 Jun 2017 13:30

:rotfl:

Hayder al-Khoei‏Verified account @Hayder_alKhoei May 31

In the post-truth Trump era, even Saddam's Iraq was a bastion of democracy. We had proper elections back then. Along with mass graves.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby rsingh » 02 Jun 2017 15:49

Lalmohan wrote:...and conveniently twists and spins the facts... in the end the base are hearing what they want to hear and they will remain placid enough whilst the privateers fill their boots

meanwhile, the rest of G7-15 will develop clean tech and carry on regardless towards the future whilst trump land and the swamp cleaners turn the clock backwards on industrial and environmental progress...


What if rest of the world imposes 5% Environment Tax on imports from US ?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby ShyamSP » 02 Jun 2017 19:09

rsingh wrote:
Lalmohan wrote:...and conveniently twists and spins the facts... in the end the base are hearing what they want to hear and they will remain placid enough whilst the privateers fill their boots

meanwhile, the rest of G7-15 will develop clean tech and carry on regardless towards the future whilst trump land and the swamp cleaners turn the clock backwards on industrial and environmental progress...


What if rest of the world imposes 5% Environment Tax on imports from US ?


Those countries will have resources, say oil, bill going up. It helps to be super power controlling world resources. Middle east oil and trade is controlled by US and Russia.

US getting out of Paris agreement is very good thing for India as it showed most International agreements are toothless. India can now get out with ease of any agreements that put pressure on it.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby NRao » 02 Jun 2017 22:55


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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby KLNMurthy » 02 Jun 2017 23:20

Mort Walker wrote:^^^You are mistaking climate change and environmental pollution. Two different things.

I hope India can now pull out of the Paris Accord nonsense too. No reason to constrain the economy. India needs lots of cheap electricity and transportation fuel. It need not come at the cost of the environment. Do what is economically viable and not on some nonsense to limit CO2.

OT but I'm afraid I never understood how it constrains Indian or any economy to develop a brand new high-end sector in renewable technology business.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby KLNMurthy » 02 Jun 2017 23:24

CRamS wrote:
rsingh wrote:Trump is on fire. Calls China and India biggest polluters. Taunts europeans, NGOs .......anybody in sight.


Crude white nationalism at play. The moron I doubt knows anything about climate change.

But one thing I like about rise of Trump. US has always been imperialistic bully couched in the language of noble intentions. Trump is laying bare that facade. So other countries like India can also proclaim their interests instead of some bogus "globalization" and "international law" all of which were just front ends to further US interests.

What about India proclaiming its love of international law if that is the best option for furthering Indian interests? Is everything a zero-sum game, or is there any gain to be had by co-operating constructively with others under set "rules of the road" that are mutually agreed upon?

Sometimes India joins global institutions like UN even when they are primarily instruments of domination by the powerful, because of the compulsions faced by anyone whose wealth and power doesn't match their desire for independent action and growth. To read some of the BRF jingo posts, such decisions are made out of naievete rather than as a considered and prudent choice based on a perception of one's needs, strengths and weaknesses. It is easy to be a firebrand hothead on BRF, actually running a country usually requires a cooler head (unless the country is US and you are Trump).

India hasn't hesitated to blow off UN resolutions as in the Kashmir-related ones. And it did the nuclear tests despite near-universal global opposition. But generally, if we are not as rich and powerful as the US and insist on giving the finger to all international norms and institutions, we will end up more like North Korea and Pakistan than the India that we dream of. The question, "is this the hill for us to die on?" must always be asked.
Last edited by KLNMurthy on 02 Jun 2017 23:36, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Dipanker » 02 Jun 2017 23:31

Mort Walker wrote:^^^You are mistaking climate change and environmental pollution. Two different things.

I hope India can now pull out of the Paris Accord nonsense too. No reason to constrain the economy. India needs lots of cheap electricity and transportation fuel. It need not come at the cost of the environment. Do what is economically viable and not on some nonsense to limit CO2.


Two different things but closely related. Environmental pollution due to GHG, bulk of which is CO2, is the main cause of climate-change/global-warming.

Currently India is importing over 25% of its coal requirement, so coal isn't exactly cheap for India as it has to spend costly foreign exchange to import it. Beside, pollution is a big problem in India.

India, Once a Coal Goliath, Is Fast Turning Green


(India would do good by massively planting trees to offset some of the coal burning. We are a hot country, we need all the trees!)

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Mort Walker » 03 Jun 2017 01:17

India gets nearly 2/3 of its power from coal and that is not going to change much. The NYT doesn't know all of the facts. Look at CEA statistics posted in the T&E forum about power production. Reality is different from hype.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Dipanker » 03 Jun 2017 05:21

India gets about 60% power from coal, so the ratio is 3/5 than 2/3. At one time it used to nearly 70%, so over the years this number has gone down albeit at a slow rate. Given the current trajectory and India's commitment to paris treaty it will keep going down.

Anyway OT for this thread so I will stop.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Vayutuvan » 03 Jun 2017 10:53

KLNMurthy wrote:OT but I'm afraid I never understood how it constrains Indian or any economy to develop a brand new high-end sector in renewable technology business.


It is not easy in a country where the top corporates are extremely risk averse. As it is very little progress is made in the US itself whic, putatively, has a private sector that takes great risk in developing new products and spends money proactively on research without any expectations of short term returns.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Vayutuvan » 03 Jun 2017 10:58

Dipanker wrote:India gets about 60% power from coal, so the ratio is 3/5 than 2/3. At one time it used to nearly 70%, so over the years this number has gone down albeit at a slow rate. Given the current trajectory and India's commitment to paris treaty it will keep going down.

Anyway OT for this thread so I will stop.

Circa 2000- even the US had electricity from coal as high as 55%. Incidentally the transmission losses were ~50% as well. Just improving the distribution network would have reduced the dependency on coal by half to 25% (more or less). Best is to consume where the electricity is produced. OT. (Dipanker,le us take it the right thread)

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Lalmohan » 03 Jun 2017 20:34

i caught the modi end of the joint press conference with macron this morning... modi-ji kamleshseth se khush nahin
adarnya rashtrapati ji and poojya pradhan mantri ji had a lot of bonhomie

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Amber G. » 04 Jun 2017 05:06

Is not only government to government it is people to people, CEO to CEO, scientists to scientists contacts too.
Image

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby KL Dubey » 04 Jun 2017 11:43

Mort Walker wrote:^^^You are mistaking climate change and environmental pollution. Two different things.

I hope India can now pull out of the Paris Accord nonsense too. No reason to constrain the economy. India needs lots of cheap electricity and transportation fuel. It need not come at the cost of the environment. Do what is economically viable and not on some nonsense to limit CO2.


India is already unconstrained. There is no urgent need to dramatically increase coal-based power production. Renewables (including nuclear) can supply much of the demand. At the same time there is no need for strong decrease in import of liquid fuels either. India can meet CO2 reduction targets by other means such as energy efficiency in all sectors, a goal that usually makes sound economic sense in the medium- and long-run (even if some additional capital investments in short-run).

NaMo wears multiple hats - and one is that of an astute bania. His commitment to getting 40% of India's energy from non-fossil sources isn't just tree-hugger idealism. It will create jobs, promote economic growth, and suck substantial resources out from the West into India.

He also knows from his advisors that India's CO2 emissions reduction target is easy to meet, almost incidental. Why pull out of something that easy, when you can get the goodwill of the whole world without any extra work ?

Staying in the Paris accord at this point is basically a signal of support to all countries on the planet and an acknowledgment that we are following our own age-old commitment to maintaining environmental equilibrium, "Paris or no Paris". That is exactly what NaMo said this week. We are not following some other country but leading on our own.

In fact, lending India's weight to the accord will allow the continued economic bleeding of Europe and the West in general, to our benefit. The other political "bania" who also understands this is Trumb, and he obviously wants to pull out because he knows he is on the losing side of the deal.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby JE Menon » 04 Jun 2017 11:49

^^400%

Excellent summation...

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby A Deshmukh » 04 Jun 2017 13:18

It would be interesting when our Indian Bania meets the American One.
Any predictions on the give and take?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Avtar Singh » 04 Jun 2017 16:26

It is all a win win for India..
Avoiding fossil fuels will help with balance of payments, since India does not have this stuff.
Trump helping all his oil buddies pump like crazy and keeping prices supressed helps India balance of payments.
But my sympathies go out to original Americans over stuff like DAPL.

Capital can stay in India, helping Indians.
All this helps whilst Make in India can take hold, again eventually helping balance of payments.

I have seen people carp about how lucky ModiJi is over energy prices... Long may his luck continue
I really hope that the trashing of the dollar has no impact on oil prices.... DOWN DOWN DOWN please.
Bonaparte had a good quote on the importance of luck

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby NRao » 04 Jun 2017 20:18

JE Menon wrote:^^400%

Excellent summation...


Second that.



On a totally diff note, we all (seem to) know that the Trump "Cabinet" is a set of puppets, with perhaps one or two exceptions. One of them was *expected* to be the NSA. But that veneer seems to be falling apart. And, IF that is true, this is one person that can either do a boat load of good for India *or* hurt India - pretty badly. He seems to be one of the first NSAs that has subscribed to a zero sum game. And, there are voices asking him to step down (for a number of reasons).

H.R. McMaster and the Foolish Trust in Trump’s “Generals”

In a scathing critique of McMaster’s subservience to Trump, the venerable national security reporter Thomas Ricks argued in Politico, “I no longer believe in the ‘adults in the room’ theory of containing President Trump and the similarly erratic and ignorant people around him.... I don’t see McMaster improving Trump. Rather, what I have seen so far is Trump degrading McMaster. In fact, nothing seems to change Trump. He continues to stumble through his foreign policy—embracing autocrats, alienating allies and embarrassing Americans who understand that NATO has helped keep peace in Europe for more than 65 years.” Ricks called for McMaster to step down—“not just for his own good, but for the good of the country.”

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Mort Walker » 04 Jun 2017 22:48

KL Dubey wrote:
Mort Walker wrote:^^^You are mistaking climate change and environmental pollution. Two different things.

I hope India can now pull out of the Paris Accord nonsense too. No reason to constrain the economy. India needs lots of cheap electricity and transportation fuel. It need not come at the cost of the environment. Do what is economically viable and not on some nonsense to limit CO2.


India is already unconstrained. There is no urgent need to dramatically increase coal-based power production. Renewables (including nuclear) can supply much of the demand. At the same time there is no need for strong decrease in import of liquid fuels either. India can meet CO2 reduction targets by other means such as energy efficiency in all sectors, a goal that usually makes sound economic sense in the medium- and long-run (even if some additional capital investments in short-run).

NaMo wears multiple hats - and one is that of an astute bania. His commitment to getting 40% of India's energy from non-fossil sources isn't just tree-hugger idealism. It will create jobs, promote economic growth, and suck substantial resources out from the West into India.

He also knows from his advisors that India's CO2 emissions reduction target is easy to meet, almost incidental. Why pull out of something that easy, when you can get the goodwill of the whole world without any extra work ?

Staying in the Paris accord at this point is basically a signal of support to all countries on the planet and an acknowledgment that we are following our own age-old commitment to maintaining environmental equilibrium, "Paris or no Paris". That is exactly what NaMo said this week. We are not following some other country but leading on our own.

In fact, lending India's weight to the accord will allow the continued economic bleeding of Europe and the West in general, to our benefit. The other political "bania" who also understands this is Trumb, and he obviously wants to pull out because he knows he is on the losing side of the deal.


Agreeing to the Paris Accord for India is the same as signing the CTBT and NPT. What Trump couldn't articulate, but his minions did for him, was to understand that this is about cheap energy for increased manufacturing growth and transportation. In India we pay over Rs. 7/unit for power when it should be no more than 70 paise/unit. How can India quickly become a $10T economy without significantly increasing its CO2? The Paris Accord ties India's hands. Yes, Trump was/is nasty toward India, but he did a great thing by pulling the US out. India is no longer bound to the Paris Accord and is only voluntary. If global temp rises almost 1C from 2015-2020, don't think for a moment that the west won't put pressure on India. The Chinese will continue to fake data and lie about goals reached. India has to get to the $10T GDP by hook or by crook by 2030. It is the only way to solve our geopolitical problems.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Prem » 05 Jun 2017 02:14

Did Saudi Check Book got hold of Trump to Dump Paris accord? any how it's win win for India . Let Crude prices go down to keep Saudi afloat . They will need India as big customer. Russia too will need us as buyer and so will Iran.No body could THUNK of this just few year ago when crude hit 142$ a barrel.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby KL Dubey » 05 Jun 2017 03:15

Mort Walker wrote:In India we pay over Rs. 7/unit for power when it should be no more than 70 paise/unit.


70 paise/unit electricity nationwide is a pipe dream in your lifetime or mine. India is currently about average among the G-20 economies in electricity tariffs if PPP is accounted for - we could do somewhat better. At simple exchange rates, we are already pretty much at rock bottom among the pack.

How can India quickly become a $10T economy without significantly increasing its CO2?


The answer is in your own question. India has NOT committed to reducing its overall emissions, which will still hugely increase by 2030. We have only committed to lowering our emission intensity per unit of GDP by about 33%.

Please read the exact Nationally Determined Commitments (NDCs) of India here. They are bullet-listed on page 29.

http://www4.unfccc.int/ndcregistry/PublishedDocuments/India%20First/INDIA%20INDC%20TO%20UNFCCC.pdf

So if Indian GDP increases from $2.5T to $10T (about 300% increase), assuming "business as usual" let us say the CO2 emissions will also increase roughly by the same percentage (300%).

Instead, based upon Paris commitment, we will only have a 200% increase in emissions. Very doable - almost trivial - and doing so will actually make economic sense and accelerate our GDP growth (forget CO2 commitment, which will be incidental).

It is the Western countries that are committed to huge absolute cuts in emissions. In my opinion this will be a burden on their economies.

EU:

http://www4.unfccc.int/ndcregistry/PublishedDocuments/European%20Union%20First/LV-03-06-EU%20INDC.pdf

USA (technically doesn't apply any more):

http://www4.unfccc.int/ndcregistry/PublishedDocuments/United%20States%20of%20America%20First/U.S.A.%20First%20NDC%20Submission.pdf

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby KL Dubey » 05 Jun 2017 03:26

India Leads on Climate Action as Trump Exits Paris Agreement

Minister Piyush Goyal, India’s minister with independent charge for power, coal, mining and renewable energy, has repeatedly re-affirmed India’s commitment to fighting climate change:

"Clean energy is not something that we are working on because somebody else wants us to do it. It’s a matter of faith and the faith of the leadership in India. Nothing on Earth is going to stop us from doing that."


Reading the rest of the article, it becomes apparent that India - earlier considered a recalcitrant "outlier" - is now considered a leader (since 2014), for doing nothing more than having a focused national economic and energy policy. If pursuing our national interest also gains us lots of tree-hugger fans, why not ? :D

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby NRao » 05 Jun 2017 03:46

India has NOT committed to reducing its overall emissions, which will still hugely increase by 2030. We have only committed to lowering our emission intensity per unit of GDP by about 33%.


I may be wrong, but the Paris Accord is about providing a plan to achieve the goal. Not commitments. And, even IF the Paris Accord is implemented as-is, it will only contribute to some 2% of teh final goal.

The next Accord will be about commitments. And, I believe, is the one that will take us over the remaining 98% (to keep the temps under 2 degree increase).

hUUUGLY:

Also, there is a HUGELY misconception. Trump *cannot* pull out until 2020 - it takes 4 years to "pull out" of the Paris Accord. So, there is a chance IF Trump gets defeated in 2020 that the next President may decide to carry on with the Paris Accord.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby KL Dubey » 05 Jun 2017 03:53

NRao wrote:I may be wrong, but the Paris Accord is about providing a plan to achieve the goal. Not commitments.


That was the early stage culminating in COP21 (Dec 2015). After almost a year of country ratifications it came into force in Nov 2016 as a binding commitment at the level of a treaty with an accountability framework. However I doubt if anyone is going to war if a country doesn't meet its commitments.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby KL Dubey » 05 Jun 2017 04:05

NRao wrote:Also, there is a HUGELY misconception. Trump *cannot* pull out until 2020 - it takes 4 years to "pull out" of the Paris Accord. So, there is a chance IF Trump gets defeated in 2020 that the next President may decide to carry on with the Paris Accord.


Your statements are highly misleading. I agree with Trumb on the procedural aspects. He can stop any further action on this treaty, and nothing more needs to be said about it.

The US has not even ratified** the agreement/treaty, so it is actually irrelevant to say they are "pulling out of the treaty". More correctly, we can say Trumb has decided not to pursue any further executive or legislative actions on this.

**Ratification means formal domestic approval, typically through the parliament/legislature in a democratic country. The US Senate has not ratified the Paris agreement. It was personally adopted by Obamudu using an executive order. He is gone now, and Trumb - rightly considering this as a "treaty"-type agreement - has simply said he is not interested in putting it up before the Senate for approval.

This "four year" business is all just garam hawa.

Nevertheless, the US economy (states, private playaz) will still likely pursue CO2 reductions (as a byproduct of energy efficiency and technology upgradation drives) and I believe the US will probably still reduce its emissions (maybe less, the same, or even more than what is required by the Paris accord).

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Mort Walker » 05 Jun 2017 06:45

KL Dubey wrote:
70 paise/unit electricity nationwide is a pipe dream in your lifetime or mine. India is currently about average among the G-20 economies in electricity tariffs if PPP is accounted for - we could do somewhat better. At simple exchange rates, we are already pretty much at rock bottom among the pack.


WRONG. India has one of the highest electricity rates in the world when adjusted for per capital incomes. It is even worse for commercial and industrial users. Try running a small steel fabrication where you need lots of power for furnaces. This whole thing is about having cheap energy. It has nothing to do with climate. You live in a dreamland if you think electric power is cheap in India.

That "business as usual" is steel, cement, fertilizer, heavy vehicles, shipping, roads, agriculture and defense production. We have a long long way to go before adequate development. Going up to $10T is doable, but if we're limited to 200% increase in CO2 means we don't get there by 2030.

Trump has done India a favor. Day before yesterday, Modi when speaking in Moscow with Putin, while being interviewed, carefully avoided criticizing the US and Trump. All Modi said was that we should not steal from future generations. He spoke wisely.
Last edited by Mort Walker on 05 Jun 2017 07:21, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Mort Walker » 05 Jun 2017 06:50

The next step is for Trump to have the US withdraw from the UN IPCC. That would end US involvement with more certainty.

NRao
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby NRao » 05 Jun 2017 07:39

Not the biggest of deals, since I am not bothered by the decision Trump has made - IMHO if at all it will hurt the very people he is trying to support. But .....

KL Dubey wrote:
NRao wrote:Also, there is a HUGELY misconception. Trump *cannot* pull out until 2020 - it takes 4 years to "pull out" of the Paris Accord. So, there is a chance IF Trump gets defeated in 2020 that the next President may decide to carry on with the Paris Accord.


Your statements are highly misleading. I agree with Trumb on the procedural aspects. He can stop any further action on this treaty, and nothing more needs to be said about it.


The US has not even ratified** the agreement/treaty, so it is actually irrelevant to say they are "pulling out of the treaty". More correctly, we can say Trumb has decided not to pursue any further executive or legislative actions on this.


Again, I could be wrong (since I have not followed it at all), but that is not the way I have understood it. Here is what I base it of:

IS THE AGREEMENT LEGALLY BINDING?
Yes. The agreement is considered a “treaty” under
international law, but only certain provisions are
legally binding. The issue of which provisions to make
binding was a central concern for many countries,
in particular the United States, which wanted an
agreement the president could accept without seeking
congressional approval
. Meeting that test precluded
binding emission targets and new binding financial
commitments. The agreement, however, includes binding
procedural commitments – such as the requirements to
maintain successive NDCs and to report on progress in
implementing them.


Which is why "ratification" was never needed - actually, if I may add, for this round. You see the agreement was prepared so Obama could declare victory before he left office. And, I doubt a person who used to sit on teh street and eat ice cream and has now bought a $8 million house would really care about such details. But, that is a diff story .................

So, what are the expectations of "this round" COP 21?

IS THE AGREEMENT LEGALLY BINDING?
Yes. The agreement is considered a “treaty” under
international law, but only certain provisions are
legally binding. The issue of which provisions to make
binding was a central concern for many countries,
in particular the United States, which wanted an
agreement the president could accept without seeking
congressional approval. Meeting that test precluded
binding emission targets and new binding financial
commitments.
The agreement, however, includes binding
procedural commitments – such as the requirements to
maintain successive NDCs and to report on progress in
implementing them.



So, I will not comment on the meaning of ratification. It is irrelevant.

This "four year" business is all just garam hawa.


At this point in time, what is not? Forget the number of years (it seems to be three and not four), *everyone* has merrily kicked the silly can and declared victory.

What is interesting is that they have pledged to start some sort of a fund to collect $20 billion for "developing countries" - one of the points during Trumps rant about India. But, he is right (never thought I would say that)!!!!! (granted there is a reason from the Indian/Dev nation side.)

Nevertheless, the US economy (states, private playaz) will still likely pursue CO2 reductions (as a byproduct of energy efficiency and technology upgradation drives) and I believe the US will probably still reduce its emissions (maybe less, the same, or even more than what is required by the Paris accord).


Well.

HOW DID THE PARIS CONFERENCE
ENGAGE STAKEHOLDERS SUCH AS
STATES, CITIES, AND BUSINESS?

Although only national governments participate directly
in the negotiations, COP 21 provided many opportunities
to showcase the contributions of “non-state actors” to the
global climate effort. The strong display of commitments
by cities, subnational governments and businesses at
the New York Climate Summit in September 2014 led to
the establishment at COP 20 of the Lima-Paris Action
Agenda and the online NAZCA portal, where non-state
actors can register their commitments. By the time
of Paris,
the portal listed nearly 11,000 commitments
from 2,250 cities, 150 regions, 22,025 companies, and
hundreds of states/regions, investors and civil society
organizations.
The unprecedented showing of action and
support from all levels of society was widely credited as
an important factor in Paris’ success. Governments and
PARIS CLIMATE AGREEMENT Q&A OCTOBER 2016
Center for Climate and Energy Solutions 3
stakeholder groups are working to strengthen non-state
contributions to the UNFCCC.


There is already a good nucleus out there. Anyone can join the party. BUT, at this point in time all they will say is what processes they have in place to make it happen. No need to say if they have the funds NOR what their contributions as far as reductions are concerned.




As usual, headed in the right direction, but as usual, kicked that can. They STILL have to provide goals, funds AND THEN implement AND THEN show how much they have contributed.

By then the temp could have increased by a cool 1 degree. Or is it hot 1 degree?

Much ado about nothing.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Prem » 08 Jun 2017 01:01

https://www.nasa.gov/astronauts/biographies/raja-chari
Astronaut Candidate Raja Chari
Raja Chari has been selected by NASA to join the 2017 Astronaut Candidate Class. He will report for duty in August 2017. The Iowa native graduated from the U.S. Air Force Academy in 1999 with Bachelor’s degrees in Astronautical Engineering and Engineering Science. He continued on to earn a Master’s degree in Aeronautics and Astronautics from Massachusetts Institute of Technology and graduated from the U.S. Naval Test Pilot School.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby KL Dubey » 08 Jun 2017 08:01

^^^Prem, this has nothing to do with India or India-US relations.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Muns » 14 Jun 2017 09:49

Prime Minister’s Narendra Modi’s US visit: Meet to Set Forth Vision to Expand Indo-US tie: Creating thousands of US jobs: Sean Spicer

http://www.india-aware.com/prime-ministers-narendra-modis-us-visit-meet-to-set-forth-vision-to-expand-indo-us-tie-creating-thousands-of-us-jobs-sean-spicer/

Addressing the common interests of the two countries in an environment where Trump’s promotion of a policy of “Buy American, hire American” is stoking apprehensions in India, Spicer on Monday said: “US energy and technologies, including natural gas, are helping to build Prime Minister Modi’s vision for a new India and creating thousands of American jobs in the process.”

Despite the recent hiccups over the issue, US-India trade has grown six-fold since 2000, from USD 19 billion to USD 115 billion in 2016, Spicer said, adding that the Indian economy is growing at over 7 per cent.

The maiden meeting between US President Donald Trump and Prime Minister Narendra Modi would “set forth a vision” to expand the US-India partnership in an ambitious way, the White House has said.

The leaders of the world’s two largest democracies, home to 1.6 billion people, will meet on June 26 to discuss a gamut of bilateral issues including terrorism and India’s concerns over possible changes in H1B visa rules.

External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj in her annual press meet last week said Modi would also raise the issues surrounding the US plans to reduce the number of H-1B visa slots that are mainly used by Indian IT workers.

Notably, Modi’s US visit, which would begin on June 25, comes in the backdrop of Trump’s announcement to withdraw the US from the historic Paris Climate Agreement signed by over 190 other countries.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Muns » 16 Jun 2017 08:57

Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Donald Trump: May build up on 2015 APAC vision

http://www.india-aware.com/prime-minister-narendra-modi-and-donald-trump-may-build-up-on-2015-apac-vision/

The proposed Indo-US economic partnership for the Asia-Pacific region are not yet known, the plan would be an alternative for the region. This will be reflected during the Modi-Trump dialogue on June 26 as India hopes to emerge as a leading player in Asia or Indo-Pacific, and the US holds on to its preeminent position in the region.

The Indo-US commitment to the Asia-Pacific region takes forward January 2015’s ‘Joint Strategic Vision for the Asia-Pacific and the Indian Ocean’.

As the leaders of the world’s two largest democracies that bridge the Asia-Pacific and Indian Ocean region and reflecting our agreement that a closer partnership between the United States and India is indispensable to promoting peace, prosperity and stability in those regions, we have agreed on a Joint Strategic Vision for the region.

India and the United States are important drivers of regional and global growth. From Africa to East Asia, we will build on our partnership to support sustainable, inclusive development, and increased regional connectivity by collaborating with other interested partners to address poverty and support broad-based prosperity.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Philip » 16 Jun 2017 10:02

Trump is currently consumed by the investigation into his alleged Russian links and preventing an "obstruction of justice" criminal action indictment against him. The nuances and subtleties of an Asian eco policy will be lost upon him at this moment of time.

Trump's foreign policy.:
Accuse Qatar,Saudi A,etc. of sponsoring terrorism.Lambaste them in the media,twitter,etc. Make them shiver.
Action taken? Deals for hundreds of billions of US made arms for the same entities>this is how sponsors of terror are rewarded!
Next nation on the list of terror nations to be "trumped",Pakistan.

India: "What? India does not sponsor terror at all unlike Pak? Cut visas,get our IT cos. back home from Bangalore,impose heavy duties and sanctions for Indian made goods and services!"
Psst! Modiji.Buy our junked F-16s in the hundreds and I'll grant you some green cars...!


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