India-US relations: News and Discussions III

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UlanBatori
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby UlanBatori » 16 Jun 2017 17:56

IMHO this is due to a communications gap. The US has reached that wonderful status that UBCNews predicted long ago.

The only viable exports are weapons (since China is taking over the airliner bijnez) and toilet paper. No market in India for the latter. OTOH, Trump believes that India exports only ppl.

The problem may be that Trump does not understand how importing software engineers is the only way to develop exportable next-gen products using robotics, AI, blockchain (whatever that is)/ IoT etc. Software systems today are monstrously large and require large, well-organized teams who can keep working long hours because they have the IPL/ICC feed on the other screen and BRF krikit thread to inspire them. The software has to be very highly reliable. They cannot be done by typical 1980s beerbelly sitting unwashed in a basement and writing hard-coded spaghetti junk.

And Indian IT companies, AFAIK, have not really shown much interest in moving into the high end of such software development, sticking to financial services etc (not that financial doesn't hold massive profit margin, mind u..). The tech programming I believe needs nerd engg. knawlidj.

You still can't buy a Max Power Point Tracking Controller for PV systems, made in India - as one example. For robotic manufacturing Brish1tstanis are selling their yesterdin's "turnkey" (meaning blackboxes for dumbos) systems at outrageously inflated prices to clueless desis. Those could be developed much better in India by the same DOOs who probably developed those in Brish1tstan.

OK, don't kill me for 'off-da-cuff comment', :eek: :shock: no harm or insult intended to anyone, apologies in advance. Don't bet that there is no evidence/experience behind UBCNews anal-e-sys in these things.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Singha » 16 Jun 2017 21:04


UlanBatori
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby UlanBatori » 16 Jun 2017 21:34

+100. High time onlee. Now teach a few lessons to NYT types visiting India. With 400% deniability of course. Dead rat inside camera. Periplaneta AMERICANA inside toilet bag. Taxi driver does not come/ gets flat tire 10 miles outside town, no spare. Milk of Magnesia in Milk Shake. Itch powder in talcum powder dabba. Slow-release Skunk Oil capsules in their Michael Kors handbag at the French Embassy Reception. What's the See Bee Eye for anyhow?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby hanumadu » 17 Jun 2017 03:53

While leaders of UK, Japan, Germany and Chinese leaders make a bee line to the US, the Indian leader is taking his own sweet time meeting a host of other leaders before coming to the US. Probably an indication of how much India is worried about Trump presidency.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby krisna » 17 Jun 2017 04:03

^^^^
does not matter, trump has a mind of his own. 8)

JE Menon
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby JE Menon » 18 Jun 2017 10:31

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGtE2LpzF5U

Karolina Goswami on Indian Americans - lots of you chaps will enjoy it.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby NRao » 18 Jun 2017 12:02

Well ........


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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby NRao » 20 Jun 2017 10:57

XXX
Last edited by NRao on 21 Jun 2017 02:54, edited 1 time in total.

ramana
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby ramana » 20 Jun 2017 23:32

NRao, I closed the Understanding US thread as forum is not up to the task.

So please don't drop and scoot.

I expect you to delete your post.

ramana

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby schinnas » 22 Jun 2017 13:41

Why no discussion on the likely Trump nominee for Ambassadorship to India.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 260131.cms

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Yagnasri » 22 Jun 2017 13:59

As per this report, we are supposed to welcome him expert and known quantity to us as per another "expert' on India. He is Deputy of a something-something department and a "top" aid to the golden monkey. So what is there to discuss. Business as usual.

We need to stop thinking that such people are going to help us or contribute something beneficial to us. We need to get our high rate of economic growth going at a study pace and try everything possible to increase it. The rest will follow.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby arshyam » 22 Jun 2017 18:27

^^ Well said. If anything, the amrikis should be discussing whom to send as their representative. That will signal the effort they will put into the relationship. I don't see (or ever seen) any discussion on that in the US media - granted, we are not there yet in their reckoning. Till that happens, no need to waste cycles on who will come. Any Tom, Dick or Harry is welcome ;)
Last edited by arshyam on 23 Jun 2017 00:21, edited 1 time in total.

Philip
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Philip » 22 Jun 2017 19:37

Expecting a "meaningful" relationship with the US based upon a real understanding of India,highly optimistic-just some hard facts:

India is the largest nation population-wise on earth,largest democracy,arguably the oldest cosmic civilisation on record,the origin of Hinduism,Jainism,Buddhism,Sikhism,Bahaaisim,welcomed Christianity and Judaism 2000 yrs ago,home to 170M+ Muslims,who co-exist peacefully with their other Indian Brn.( barring a miniscule number indoctrinated by the Saudi/Wahaabist/Paki conspirators,close US buddies),and who have spread their religions,culture and languages across the globe peacefully!

Sadly,Uncle Sam's most eminent minds are just one level above "Joe six-pack" in intellectual cap[ability and as for the current occupant of the White House,the less said the better. He just wants to sell weapons to everyone in the world so that they can al start fighting with each other while Uncle Sam laughs all the way to the bank.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby ramana » 23 Jun 2017 01:41

US approves sale of 22 Guardian naval drones to India. These are derivatives of Predator from the pictures.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Mort Walker » 23 Jun 2017 02:51

Certainly good news. I only wish India could have gotten the armed predators instead. Ombaba rejected the sale, don't know if the Sona Bandar would have too.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby JE Menon » 23 Jun 2017 19:44

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24fiKp6h5UQ

Indian Prime Minister Modi visits the U.S. and Israel - Part 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aIpG6I32xE

Indian Prime Minister Modi visits the U.S. and Israel - Part 2

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Muns » 23 Jun 2017 21:37

Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s US Trip: Defence Deals is the key: India Eyes Breakthrough on Surveillance Drones

http://www.india-aware.com/prime-minister-narendra-modis-us-trip-defence-deals-is-the-key-india-eyes-breakthrough-on-surveillance-drones

Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s two day visit to Washington, where he will be meeting US President Donald Trump for the first time, begins on Sunday.

India and the US will also discuss the sale of US fighter jets during Modi’s trip, in what could be the biggest deal since they began deepening defence ties more than a decade ago.

Just days before Prime Minister Narendra Modi meets President Donald Trump for the first time in Washington, the US has cleared the sale of 22 unmanned Guardian drones to India, according to sources reported on Thursday.

The report added that the deal has been approved by the US State Department and has been communicated to the Indian government and the manufacturer of the drone, California based General Atomics.

Securing agreement on the purchase of 22 unarmed drones is seen in Delhi as a key test of defence ties that flourished under former President Barack Obama but have drifted under Mr Trump, who has courted India’s rival China as he seeks Beijing’s help to contain North Korea’s nuclear program.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Y. Kanan » 24 Jun 2017 09:43

It's even easier for the US to backdoor in a remote kill switch or otherwise degrade/disable drones than it would be for manned aircraft. This is an unnecessary risk to take.

If anything, it seems drones are actually a type of weapon system we could be making ourselves (playing to our strengths in software and information technology).

I don't get the logic of this purchase.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Singha » 24 Jun 2017 09:54

Should be yes
Have done no

Looking at the stellar progress of the rustom2. We missed the boat on money n manpower and are decades behind in drones even to cheen which has ioc massive drones and exporting them all over

We dropped the ball bigtime. Need a igdmp on drones from mid 90s all we did was tinker with nishant nd pat ourselves on importing searcher and heron

Even in quadcopters fr mil use we are nowhere. Our paramils could use it to scout out naxal and jihadi areas but we sitting on thumbs as usual fighting jhadi without using a technology perch...exactly what they want a level playing field

What were top drdo and military strategies doing if not able see the rma in drones 10yrs ahead ? Scientific adviser to pmo and his team?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby chetak » 24 Jun 2017 10:07

Singha wrote:Should be yes
Have done no

Looking at the stellar progress of the rustom2. We missed the boat on money n manpower and are decades behind in drones even to cheen which has ioc massive drones and exporting them all over

We dropped the ball bigtime. Need a igdmp on drones from mid 90s all we did was tinker with nishant nd pat ourselves on importing searcher and heron

Even in quadcopters fr mil use we are nowhere. Our paramils could use it to scout out naxal and jihadi areas but we sitting on thumbs as usual fighting jhadi without using a technology perch...exactly what they want a level playing field

What were top drdo and military strategies doing if not able see the rma in drones 10yrs ahead ? Scientific adviser to pmo and his team?


There is an answer. Everyone knows it well.

No one will like the answer as it will be seen as a flamebait. :evil:

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby habal » 24 Jun 2017 10:08

that is consistency for you. The prevailing but unsaid culture in GoI is that they are not perturbed by disproportional casualties sustained by their troops in civil insurgency situations.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Rudradev » 24 Jun 2017 10:18

Singha wrote:Should be yes
Have done no

Looking at the stellar progress of the rustom2. We missed the boat on money n manpower and are decades behind in drones even to cheen which has ioc massive drones and exporting them all over

We dropped the ball bigtime. Need a igdmp on drones from mid 90s all we did was tinker with nishant nd pat ourselves on importing searcher and heron

Even in quadcopters fr mil use we are nowhere. Our paramils could use it to scout out naxal and jihadi areas but we sitting on thumbs as usual fighting jhadi without using a technology perch...exactly what they want a level playing field

What were top drdo and military strategies doing if not able see the rma in drones 10yrs ahead ? Scientific adviser to pmo and his team?


All true.

Even in the age of Modi things still move excruciatingly slow.

What to do then?

1. Get best (but likely booby-trapped) maal from khan, which means becoming a pliant munna of khan?
2. Get maal as good as we can from Roos, Israel, other sources?
3. Take on the long hard slog of making our own... in the meantime sit quietly on geopolitical sidelines eating seng-chana... fight bravely and with low-tech when we absolutely must, while doing our best to keep own casualties as low as possible?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Paul » 24 Jun 2017 10:25

ALl three. China for some time also took a back seat to US power. IMO it is showing its cards too early and this at a time when it's Navy possesses a fraction of the power that the Imperial Japanese Navy did in 1941. They cannot even take on Guam let alone Midway.....We need to bide our time and build muscle. (to take Deng's axiom)

The immediate threat is to our land borders. When China is focused on building it's navy and it's attention is on SCS, we should build the most powerful land forces in Asia.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Santosh » 24 Jun 2017 19:30

Time to build Shaurya and Agni in tens of thousands. Any Chinese misadventure in India should be retaliated by unacceptable damage to China - atleast capability wise.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby darshhan » 24 Jun 2017 22:15

Singha wrote:Should be yes
Have done no

Looking at the stellar progress of the rustom2. We missed the boat on money n manpower and are decades behind in drones even to cheen which has ioc massive drones and exporting them all over

We dropped the ball bigtime. Need a igdmp on drones from mid 90s all we did was tinker with nishant nd pat ourselves on importing searcher and heron

Even in quadcopters fr mil use we are nowhere. Our paramils could use it to scout out naxal and jihadi areas but we sitting on thumbs as usual fighting jhadi without using a technology perch...exactly what they want a level playing field

What were top drdo and military strategies doing if not able see the rma in drones 10yrs ahead ? Scientific adviser to pmo and his team?


Among all the major world powers, we are probably the last as far as development and deployment of drones is concerned. The bad news is that we totally missed the bus. The good news is that catching up is not that difficult as lets say aircraft engine technology or stealth technology. Within five years we can catch up with the best. The software part will be more difficult than hardware.

However DRDO is not the optimal agency for developing unmanned technologies. The free and fast flowing world of UAV development will not be served well by DRDO system. The centralised approach that worked for ballistic missile development will not work for UAV development.

A new agency is required which works more on the pattern of DARPA. The purpose should be identify, support and mentor the entities having requisite talent and motivation.

By the way before the current incumbent, does any one remember when DRDO didnt have a ballistic missile scientist as its head?

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Muns » 25 Jun 2017 01:58

Indian-Americans: Gear up to welcome Prime Minister Narendra Modi

http://www.india-aware.com/indian-americans-gear-up-to-welcome-prime-minister-narendra-modi/

The community is planning to welcome PM Modi at every possible location where he could be available during his three-day stay in Washington.

Unlike New York and Silicon Valley, PM Modi is attending a smaller community event on Sunday in a Virginia suburb of Washington DC. The Sunday afternoon reception is invitation only and has been restricted to leaders of the community organisations and eminent Indian-Americans from across the country.

It is understood that the community reception can accommodate about 600 people.

In addition to the community events, several think-tanks and organisations have planned a series of events coinciding with the US-India Summit on Monday.

Another American think-tank Hudson Institute has partnered with Confederation of Indian Industry (CII) to host a discussion on Monday on building stronger trade relations between India and the US.

Congressman George Holding, Co-Chair of the House India Caucus, will offer his perspective on the India-US relationship.

“There is a huge enthusiasm among Indian Americans,” said Adapa Prasad, a top leader of the Overseas Friends of BJP USA, who is playing a key role in organising events to welcome the Prime Minister.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby panduranghari » 25 Jun 2017 02:24

sudeepj wrote:
I can only wish India gets as ruthless and as farsighted a strategist as Zbig or Kissinger.


I agree. But I have to ask- was Kissinger and or Zbig farsighted? Yes I think Kissinger was ruthless. We have had people like K Subramanyam, who was far sighted too. Did India have the muscle to be ruthless? K Subramanyam under Modi in todays age would perhaps be more ruthless than in the period when he was in his prime. Just an observation.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Kakkaji » 25 Jun 2017 02:42

panduranghari wrote:I agree. But I have to ask- was Kissinger and or Zbig farsighted? Yes I think Kissinger was ruthless. We have had people like K Subramanyam, who was far sighted too. Did India have the muscle to be ruthless? K Subramanyam under Modi in todays age would perhaps be more ruthless than in the period when he was in his prime. Just an observation.


Also please remember, Foreign Secretary S Jaishankar who is Modi's point man in foreign policy is the son of K Subramanyam. I think he has learnt his world view from his father.

I think that when S Jaishankar finally retires, Modi will give him an important post in the national security set-up.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby panduranghari » 25 Jun 2017 02:51

Avtar Singh wrote:It is all a win win for India..
Avoiding fossil fuels will help with balance of payments, since India does not have this stuff.


Not correct saar. Indian demand for oil and gold is price insensitive. Its been shown with data. Raise price to whatever level. Even at $147/bbl did not dampen our oil demand.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby SaiK » 25 Jun 2017 04:43

BJP USA!


I like that.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby JE Menon » 25 Jun 2017 16:14

Decent roundtable discussion on NewsX about the upcoming Modi-Trump meeting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1wa32M8AtY

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Singha » 25 Jun 2017 16:30

I have a bill gunston salamander book on spy planes and recce ac dating back to around 1986 with a considerable number of fixed wing and rotary drones detailed. So uav dev in west started in mid 70s for sure with usa in lead. A small number were even jet engine powered.

I guess nobody saw its real potential until the predator drone gained fame. Once the use cases came they already had the building blocks for rapidly moving from scan eagle and predator to global hawk in 1 decade of big funding.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Paul » 25 Jun 2017 21:36

It is the Israeli success rate (96-0) in Bekaa valley in 1982 that woke the Americans up. The Israelis first sent in the drones to make the Syrians switch on their radars for SAM6 missiles thinking these were the fighter aircraft. Once identified, they were taken out using ARM missiles.

There is a video on youtube which details the development of Drones by the US.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Paul » 25 Jun 2017 21:42


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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby CRamS » 25 Jun 2017 22:03

JE Menon wrote:Decent roundtable discussion on NewsX about the upcoming Modi-Trump meeting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1wa32M8AtY



Waste of time meeting IMO. None of India's interests will be on the table. Heck even on the eve of ModiJi's visit, US did the usual equal equal of arms to India not to affect "regional balance". The very premise, "balance" between the world's largest democracy and a terrorist abomination makes me throw up profusely.

I will consider a Indian PM and US president visit worth the piece of paper if its written on if US mouthpiece media has even a semblance of a coverage. As it stands today, lots of usual hot air hype on DDM, but nada, zilch in US media. From Indian PoV, I will deem the visit "successful" if in any joint press conference, the self-obsessed US mouthpiece media doesn't insult ModiJi (and India) by completely ignoring ModiJi and asking Trump only stupid questions about Russia and the likes.
Last edited by CRamS on 26 Jun 2017 00:41, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Guddu » 25 Jun 2017 23:05

I have read many times about the presence of kill switches on US equipment which might be sold to India. Is there a concrete example of this, for were the US to have a kill switch, its the surest way to stop all exports of US arms. Why would anyone buy US arms, if that were so. I did read a long time ago, that during Kargil the US switched off their GPS feed, but its not something we pay for.

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby LokeshC » 26 Jun 2017 02:06

I think the Mongolian had posted something along those lines when describing the Falklands war. The britshits were helped generously by unkil and were able to destroy the Argentine air offensive. Not very clear on the details, but that would certainly be an example.


Unkil will never sell weapons that can be used against unkil later. Applies to special poodles like the britshits as well.


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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Guddu » 26 Jun 2017 02:30

thank you..

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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Postby Viv S » 26 Jun 2017 03:24

CRamS wrote:Waste of time meeting IMO. None of India's interests will be on the table. Heck even on the eve of ModiJi's visit, US did the usual equal equal of arms to India not to affect "regional balance". The very premise, "balance" between the world's largest democracy and a terrorist abomination makes me throw up profusely.

That's just boilerplate bureaucratese. Really shouldn't cause indigestion. Eg.

Denmark – MH-60R Multi-Mission Helicopters
The proposed sale of this equipment and support will not alter the basic military balance in the region.
Mexico - UH-60M Black Hawk Helicopters
The proposed sale of this equipment and support will not alter the basic military balance in the region.


Pakistan & China will likely have a very different view on the how the 'regional balance' is affected.


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