Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

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chetak
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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby chetak » 18 Sep 2016 23:08

anjan wrote:
chetak wrote:
This is not a rear area. It is only about 7-6 Kms from the border. It's about as close as it gets.
It's a brigade HQ. They don't by design have any serious combat capability. Being X Kms from the border is irrelevant. Yes, there will be a CoI to see if anything can be done to better secure the place but ultimately you can't change the constitution of a Brig HQ without stripping front line troops from where they're really needed. Otherwise you're just looking further and further inward to the point where all the Army is doing is force protection. Like the west in recent conflicts.


You know that and you are in the minority. True but sad.

for all the others and the aam aadmi, on both sides of the LOC, it is the IA's Brigade HQ. that was attacked and 17 IA soldiers killed by only 4 paki fidayeen

This sentence was being played on a loop by the rundi tv news reader, the whole morning.

Perception matters a lot in this business.
Last edited by chetak on 18 Sep 2016 23:09, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby jagga » 18 Sep 2016 23:09

Luit wrote: present dispensation has shafted the armed forces worse than the previous one, clean image, mann ki baat and all that may look good, but it doesn't suffice in war

Could you please mind providing more details on this? As far as I know , mostly from reading BRF, that UPA did shaft the armed forces during their 10 years rule by not improving capabilities and doing corruption in arm deals etc.

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby partha » 18 Sep 2016 23:14

Singha wrote:24 hrs window is nearly over

Nothing as usual

I will lock this thread tomorrow after any stragglers have vented here

I'll say let's keep this thread open till UNGA meet is over. It's possible India will wait for UNGA to get over for a military response, if any.

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby parshuram » 18 Sep 2016 23:22

MaharathiArjun wrote:
parshuram wrote:Saddest part is an Indian Army ex Ajai shukla goes on Ndtv and says that indian army won't respond bécause army simply don't have the capability !!!!. Disgusting


Going by the way porkis attack and our Army doesn't respond in the same language, I mean what stops army of destroying bunkers and roast couple of 100 porks? If special forces cant go inside porki areas near LOC :-? . Modi has again and again said army has free hand on LOC. Where is the cost paki military is paying for this aggression? Ajay Shukla might be correct only. Take it with a bucket of salt. :( :(



Well if hé is right . Then what is stopping us to build thé capability. À part i can see and agréé is that déspite of all big bang going on our economic prowess . What has changes for our forces ? Thé budget allocation is still under same pattern. Modernisation is painfully slow and consequently it is jawan 's life Which is becoming cheaper and cheaper

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby anjan » 18 Sep 2016 23:28

chetak wrote:for all the others and the aam aadmi, on both sides of the LOC, it is the IA's Brigade HQ. that was attacked and 17 IA soldiers killed by only 4 paki fidayeen

This sentence was being played on a loop by the rundi tv news reader, the whole morning.

Perception matters a lot in this business.
True, and I think there was a misstep here. There was no need for the Chief or the Corps Cmdr to go there. Oddly callous as that may sound it creates the perception of some great strategic loss in the place. Div Cmdr could have gone as it's his immediate responsibility but it should have ended there. This Chief though... probably was trying to anticipate his political masters.

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby sohoni » 18 Sep 2016 23:31

hi

the Uri event is intimately connected to whats going on in kashmir valley. probably, the 4 terrorists got some local support as well. an important part of any strategy is to explicate what "kashmiriyat" or "jhoomoriyat" is all about, for all to see.

i am reminded of game theory and the game of chicken. i think we should also develop a "fidayeen" option. one approach is for shiv sena and others to demand and start worship at all old kashmiri temples. some political parties could be encouraged to do a well-researched (and suitably distanced) study of the kashmiri temples that we would like re-established and offer regular worship. i think it would be easy to mobilize "hindu fidayeens" for this purpose.

sorry for sounding so cynical...but i think the hindus are a voluptuous people who forgot the art of making good swords.

regards, milind.

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby shaun » 18 Sep 2016 23:33

Illogical reasoning. Those camps are in a hostile zone , where even the local populace sympathize with pigs across border. Drawing a similarity with camps based in other parts of India is naive.

There are gaping hole in SOP and hardware related to perimeter security which gets regularly exposed with each such attacks. And i will repeat again , instead of having permanent living quarters for the foot soldiers , why are they accommodated in tents knowing very well that in case of an attack be it by mortar or shell across the border or grenade attack by pigs will amount to huge causality.

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby chetak » 18 Sep 2016 23:34

jagga wrote:
Luit wrote: present dispensation has shafted the armed forces worse than the previous one, clean image, mann ki baat and all that may look good, but it doesn't suffice in war

Could you please mind providing more details on this? As far as I know , mostly from reading BRF, that UPA did shaft the armed forces during their 10 years rule by not improving capabilities and doing corruption in arm deals etc.


People don't believe me when I sat that the DDM has very actively colluded with this govt to suppress a whole lot of news about the extreme dis satisfaction in the Forces and the veterans. The result is that the whole consolidated vote bank which came so easily to Modi during the elections will now completely and decisively swing away from him. It will hurt him badly, specially in the naarth Indian states going to elections soon. It's not only the mere votes but the free and dedicated labor of these gentle rural folks who would have actively and tirelessly canvased for Modi without expecting any food or booze or cash handouts, as they all did indeed work for free during the last elections, because of the sheer affection that they had for the nationalist sentiment and people who espoused it.

Conservatively estimated that about 35-45 lakhs of such willing hands will shift away across the naarth. Includes serving personnel (postal ballots), veterans, extended families, friends and neighbors at the very least

The MOD has apparently put out some dodgy press releases, purportedly released as "agreed by the Service Chiefs'" and the SC has stepped in with a stinging rebuttal taking the side of the services. The MOD baboo(n)s have played fast and loose and Modi is going to pay for it, for not controlling these vengeful baboo(n)s.

social media cuts very deeply onlee.
Last edited by chetak on 18 Sep 2016 23:37, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby Amber G. » 18 Sep 2016 23:36

Sorry if posted before, US was quick to condemn the attack, called it a "terrorist" attack and Kashmir was just mentioned as Kashmir (and not "Indian-Administered.. blah blah..." UK called it "terrorist" attack but old habits added none-sense of "India-administrated".

( For perspective Before 26/11, even some major terrorist attacks in India were not officially described as "terrorist attacks" by west (or even in Indian Newspapers - they were shamefully called "militants"y/"gun men" (TSP of course called them "freedom fighters")

The United States strongly condemns the terrorist attack on an Indian army base in Kashmir during the early morning of September 18. We extend our condolences to the victims and their families. The United States is committed to our strong partnership with the Indian government to combat terrorism

Link: http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2016/09/262053.htm

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby chetak » 18 Sep 2016 23:40

Amber G. wrote:Sorry if posted before, US was quick to condemn the attack, called it a "terrorist" attack and Kashmir was just mentioned as Kashmir (and not "Indian-Administered.. blah blah..." UK called it "terrorist" attack but old habits added none-sense of "India-administrated".

( For perspective Before 26/11, even some major terrorist attacks in India were not officially described as "terrorist attacks" by west (or even in Indian Newspapers - they were shamefully called "militants"y/"gun men" (TSP of course called them "freedom fighters")

The United States strongly condemns the terrorist attack on an Indian army base in Kashmir during the early morning of September 18. We extend our condolences to the victims and their families. The United States is committed to our strong partnership with the Indian government to combat terrorism

Link: http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2016/09/262053.htm


brexit has made a difference in the slimy brit vocabulary.

What else can you expect from a "nation of shopkeepers", desperately looking for new markets to replace lost ones??

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby schinnas » 18 Sep 2016 23:47

partha wrote:
Singha wrote:24 hrs window is nearly over

Nothing as usual

I will lock this thread tomorrow after any stragglers have vented here

I'll say let's keep this thread open till UNGA meet is over. It's possible India will wait for UNGA to get over for a military response, if any.


UNGA meeting should have nothing to do with an initial punitive reaction. The more India waits, the more difficult it will be to take disproportionately punitive actions. Will Israel wait around for UNGA meeting to conclude when Jordan sends terrorist s who kill 17 of its soldiers?

Its difficult to believe what I am reading in BRF these days from esteemed members. The expectation we MUST be setting with international community is that India will respond to sponsored acts of terror on her soil. Instead we are sending out the message that we are merely paper tigers.

Where is the strength, resolve and conviction of the collective billion balls we as a nation possess?

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby chetak » 18 Sep 2016 23:57

anjan wrote:
chetak wrote:for all the others and the aam aadmi, on both sides of the LOC, it is the IA's Brigade HQ. that was attacked and 17 IA soldiers killed by only 4 paki fidayeen

This sentence was being played on a loop by the rundi tv news reader, the whole morning.

Perception matters a lot in this business.
True, and I think there was a misstep here. There was no need for the Chief or the Corps Cmdr to go there. Oddly callous as that may sound it creates the perception of some great strategic loss in the place. Div Cmdr could have gone as it's his immediate responsibility but it should have ended there. This Chief though... probably was trying to anticipate his political masters.


The IA has excellent secure video conferencing facilities from any part of kashmir to Army HQ in dilli and also to all points in between. The chief could have reviewed from his office. There are many many layers between the IA chief and the local commander on the ground.

If he moves to kashmir, needed or not, the entire ass kissing bunch has to dance in attendance and be at his beck and call. Needless waste of time and resources when there are very pressing matters at hand to deal with.

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby partha » 19 Sep 2016 00:02

schinnas wrote:
partha wrote:I'll say let's keep this thread open till UNGA meet is over. It's possible India will wait for UNGA to get over for a military response, if any.


UNGA meeting should have nothing to do with an initial punitive reaction. The more India waits, the more difficult it will be to take disproportionately punitive actions. Will Israel wait around for UNGA meeting to conclude when Jordan sends terrorist s who kill 17 of its soldiers?

Its difficult to believe what I am reading in BRF these days from esteemed members. The expectation we MUST be setting with international community is that India will respond to sponsored acts of terror on her soil. Instead we are sending out the message that we are merely paper tigers.

Where is the strength, resolve and conviction of the collective billion balls we as a nation possess?

I am not advocating any wait. What I am saying is Govt may wait.

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby Gagan » 19 Sep 2016 00:06

1. What bunkers can withstand a 155mm shell hain ji?

2. Why do Indians have a penchant for the right mahurat for everything hain ji?
Why to wait for UNGA to end, and every neta to go home and to digest all the food eaten at the UN, and then to start the process of retaliation hain?

I say put in place an escalatory ladder and enforce it even as an attack is taking place onlee.
Attack on URI == Paki mil unit in X location is giving them directions etc, roast them with MBRLs or 155 mms to start off with, right away !

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby Chandragupta » 19 Sep 2016 00:10

Modi will lose every single vote if he doesn't make Pakis pay. Enough of pappi-jhappi. For all the insult US heaped on him, the man went happily around USA and we thought wow what a large hearted man! Obama spat on our faces despite being a state guest & Modi never loses a chance to bear hug him in front of the cameras and we thought may be there is something chankian going on. But 17 sons dead and if Modi goes around hugging & smiling for the camera now, shame on him & shame on me because I voted for him.

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby Karthik S » 19 Sep 2016 00:14

Chandragupta wrote:Modi will lose every single vote if he doesn't make Pakis pay. Enough of pappi-jhappi. For all the insult US heaped on him, the man went happily around USA and we thought wow what a large hearted man! Obama spat on our faces despite being a state guest & Modi never loses a chance to bear hug him in front of the cameras and we thought may be there is something chankian going on. But 17 sons dead and if Modi goes around hugging & smiling for the camera now, shame on him & shame on me because I voted for him.


Hope he doesn't keep mum thinking taking any action may lead to a decrease in FDI. As he is kind of obsessed with "development".

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby ashbhee » 19 Sep 2016 00:22

These Morons will drag us to a war. How difficult is it recapture POK once and for all?. We need to capture a large swants of of paki territory and take a big chunk of their army prisoner and war. Then we can negotiate.

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby chetak » 19 Sep 2016 00:26

Syed Ata Hasnain ‏@atahasnain53 15h15 hours ago

Uri attack, this is my old HQ.Warned the Cdr specifically on 8 Sep. Happened in 10 days. Done to remove pressure from hinterland army move

594 retweets 391 likes

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby chetak » 19 Sep 2016 00:36

burkha butt is subtly saying that India is responsible for the Uri attack.

barkha dutt ‏@BDUTT 11h11 hours ago

Timing of #UriAttack significant. India set to to underline Pakistan's role in perpetrating terrorism at the #UNGA here in New York

174 retweets 163 likes

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby KJo » 19 Sep 2016 00:40

Chandragupta wrote:Modi will lose every single vote if he doesn't make Pakis pay. Enough of pappi-jhappi. For all the insult US heaped on him, the man went happily around USA and we thought wow what a large hearted man! Obama spat on our faces despite being a state guest & Modi never loses a chance to bear hug him in front of the cameras and we thought may be there is something chankian going on. But 17 sons dead and if Modi goes around hugging & smiling for the camera now, shame on him & shame on me because I voted for him.


Sad to say but Chandragupta is right. No one respects "higher road" for long unless you show and administer the danda. Modi has not come close to this.
Time for action or get ready to welcome pappu in 2019.

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby bhavani » 19 Sep 2016 01:07

KJo wrote:
Chandragupta wrote:Modi will lose every single vote if he doesn't make Pakis pay. Enough of pappi-jhappi. For all the insult US heaped on him, the man went happily around USA and we thought wow what a large hearted man! Obama spat on our faces despite being a state guest & Modi never loses a chance to bear hug him in front of the cameras and we thought may be there is something chankian going on. But 17 sons dead and if Modi goes around hugging & smiling for the camera now, shame on him & shame on me because I voted for him.


Sad to say but Chandragupta is right. No one respects "higher road" for long unless you show and administer the danda. Modi has not come close to this.
Time for action or get ready to welcome pappu in 2019.


i did not understand a few things that Modi did, like landing in Pakistan on Sharif's Birthday and whole puppi-jhuppi stuff. The Pakis are going over and over about their mini-nukes.

How much of a "Higher Road" can one take, until we deliver Kashmir on a higher platter and Indian Army keeps on losing men to the Higher heavens.

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby bhavani » 19 Sep 2016 01:11

ashbhee wrote:These Morons will drag us to a war. How difficult is it recapture POK once and for all?. We need to capture a large swants of of paki territory and take a big chunk of their army prisoner and war. Then we can negotiate.


A war now is quite a different beast. Pakistani army is now quite spread out and is not really in a state of take on a conventional assault from India and probably will resort to nuclear strike in 3-4 days tops.

Even if we nuke back, we might lose cities like Hyderbad, Banglare, mumbai Delhi etc. The Paki Beggars have nothing to lose.

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby schinnas » 19 Sep 2016 01:13

chetak wrote:
Syed Ata Hasnain ‏@atahasnain53 15h15 hours ago

Uri attack, this is my old HQ.Warned the Cdr specifically on 8 Sep. Happened in 10 days. Done to remove pressure from hinterland army move

594 retweets 391 likes


This shows that we have allowed, and accepted as a given, that Pukis will use terrorism as an official tactical option. This is the cost of not overtly providing disproportionate punitive response to any terror misadventure. Just cannot understand ministers talking about UNGA and all such nonsense without actually ordering any punitive strikes.

One wonders if that Ajay Shukla fellow has a point afterall about Indian army not being capable of striking back. India just is not displaying the behavior if a self respecting power. Getting hit repeatedly by Pakistan and not responding overtly even once? Shame on us.

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby Y. Kanan » 19 Sep 2016 01:15

Pakis have very potent nuke warfighting capability now; we can no take no action that isn't deniable.

This is what happens when you let a nest of vipers grow next door for 30 years while doing nothing.

Get used to terror because it isn't going anywhere and will only escalate. This is a permanent fixture of Indian life now.

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby Chandragupta » 19 Sep 2016 01:26

Its better to have an aar ya paar ki ladai now rather than wait another 20 years and waiting for Pak to get their hands on megaton devices.

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby RoyG » 19 Sep 2016 01:32

Y. Kanan wrote:Pakis have very potent nuke warfighting capability now; we can no take no action that isn't deniable.

This is what happens when you let a nest of vipers grow next door for 30 years while doing nothing.

Get used to terror because it isn't going anywhere and will only escalate. This is a permanent fixture of Indian life now.



All we can do now is wait for a response.

It's a pretty big escalation.

Ajai Shukla is right in a way. We've neglected our covert action ability for a while now.

Things may have changed in the last two years but we still have a long way to go.

Our options are still quite limited.

The real battle is within the borders, not outside.

We lack a national grand narrative and structural unity and efficiency at all levels of gov.

Just look at how many intelligence services we have R&AW, IB, NTRO, DIA, IPS, DGMI, NIA, etc. all w/ overlapping functions and speaking in a completely difference language from each other. Doval is a former covert operator and he still hasn't attempted to fix this problem.

We still haven't moved on creating a Chief of Defence Staff and we expect to maintain unity and efficient coordination of the forces against multi-spectral threats from a very focused and disciplined military institution and political apparatus across the border to the North and West.

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby Dipanker » 19 Sep 2016 01:38

bhavani wrote:A war now is quite a different beast. Pakistani army is now quite spread out and is not really in a state of take on a conventional assault from India and probably will resort to nuclear strike in 3-4 days tops.

Even if we nuke back, we might lose cities like Hyderbad, Banglare, mumbai Delhi etc. The Paki Beggars have nothing to lose.


In that case start a war, inflict heavy damage for 3-4 days, give pause for couple of months, rinse and repeat. After a few cycles we would degrade their capability significantly.

Of course I seriously doubt that Paki will have guts to launch nukes as that would mean complete annihilation for Pakjab.
Last edited by Dipanker on 19 Sep 2016 01:39, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby Manish_Sharma » 19 Sep 2016 01:38

chetak wrote:Shut down ALL trade with the pakis and declare Indian passports invalid for travel to pakistan and cancel all visas issued to pakis and SAARC "journos". Down grade diplomatic relations immediately, for starters.


Traitors in bollywood employ porkis like fawad khan, while mns plastic lion spews venom against fellow countrymen from Bihar, even sudhindra kulkarni's black facing shiv sena is quite. Time these porki parasites get some taste even few slaps will go a long way.

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby RoyG » 19 Sep 2016 01:41

The count is now 20.

3rd and 4th degree burns will do that.

Being burnt alive adds a different dimension to this whole thing.

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby SaiK » 19 Sep 2016 02:05


Suresh S
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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby Suresh S » 19 Sep 2016 02:16

I say put in place an escalatory ladder and enforce it even as an attack is taking place onlee.

That is what I had in mind

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby Cosmo_R » 19 Sep 2016 02:22

Right now, Rajnath and Jetly are talking about "isolating Pakistan". The same country that Modi could not wait to visit because Sushma Swaraj 'bonded with Sharif's mother:

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india/whe ... 7RFZI.html

Way to go. Indian diplomacy is much like Bollywood. And the world knows it. I often think the GoI -Pakistan relationship is like Lucy/Charlie Brown and the football she always pulls away at the last minute

www.youtube.com/embed/055wFyO6gag

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby SaiK » 19 Sep 2016 03:07

Pindi is way too close to not burn up

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby vijayk » 19 Sep 2016 03:22

I say attack and destroy few Paki ships from/to Karachi. You need to attack mercilessly. Don't be a pussy

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby Amoghvarsha » 19 Sep 2016 03:28

X posting from the other thread.

On every channel experts like Gen Bakshi,and Jaswal,Maj Maroof etc are saying we have certain capabilities which we can use to hit Pakistan hard but "I" will not like to talk about it in public.What is this Capability?

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby Karthik S » 19 Sep 2016 03:29

They did mention smerch, brahmos and precision munitions.

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby Amoghvarsha » 19 Sep 2016 03:35

Karthik S wrote:They did mention smerch, brahmos and precision munitions.


After that they said we have capabilities we wont like to talk about in public.Dont know what they are talking about.

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby Y. Kanan » 19 Sep 2016 03:38

Dipanker wrote:
bhavani wrote:A war now is quite a different beast. Pakistani army is now quite spread out and is not really in a state of take on a conventional assault from India and probably will resort to nuclear strike in 3-4 days tops.

Even if we nuke back, we might lose cities like Hyderbad, Banglare, mumbai Delhi etc. The Paki Beggars have nothing to lose.


In that case start a war, inflict heavy damage for 3-4 days, give pause for couple of months, rinse and repeat. After a few cycles we would degrade their capability significantly.

Of course I seriously doubt that Paki will have guts to launch nukes as that would mean complete annihilation for Pakjab.


Sure, easy enough if you don't mind throwing away a few thousand Indian military lives and several $$ billion in lost equipments each time.

And for what, exactly? if Indian lives actually do have some meaning, then no war short of Total War is justifiable. Full nuclear attack followed by invasion is the only way. IOW the complete genocide and destruction of all Pakistan, forever. Anything less is an insult to our people.

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby ramana » 19 Sep 2016 03:47

rohitvats, Can you please put together a comprehensive account?
Looks very confusing.
thanks

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby Paarth » 19 Sep 2016 03:51

correct if we are going for war, we will go full throttle otherwise there is simply no point. But Pre empt the nuke strike. End all dont let porkis think too much.
We tried to avoid war but ultimately these inbred porkis has forced the war on India every time. No point doing 3-4 days of skits. WAR SHOULD BE TOTAL a preemptive massive thermo nuclear strike. Ready to take hits in return but preemptive strike should keep it lower.


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