Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

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Dilbu
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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby Dilbu » 22 Sep 2016 16:30

High alert issued in Maharashtra after men carrying arms spotted near Mumbai
In what could be a shocking breach of security, few school children have claimed that they saw movement of some suspicious persons near Uran Navy Base in Raigad, Maharashtra according to ANI.

The children reportedly spotted some men dressed in black camouflage uniform carrying ammunition around the ammunition dump, near the Uran Navy base, following which the kids alerted the local police, according to a report by NDTV. The NDTV report also said that the men had reportedly hidden their faces, which is why the children became suspicious. The children, according to Firstpost correspondent, were students of the SES School in Uran.
So far, there has been no corroborative statement from any other witness has come to light. Hemant Nagrale, the police commissioner for Navi Mumbai, told Firstpost that the police is verifying whether the threat is genuine.

Even if it turns out to be a false alrm, this is what we have been reduced to. Living in fear constantly checking the shadows. Pathetic.

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby IndraD » 22 Sep 2016 16:34

I don;t know what is the truth , a responsible person has tweeted this !

Minhaz Merchant
‏@minhazmerchant
Indian special forces strike across LoC in choppers on Tuesday night/ Wed morn, kill >20 terrorists, injure 200 more https://twitter.com/minhazmerchant/stat ... 5042405377

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby Iyersan » 22 Sep 2016 16:36

SSharma wrote:a few hours ago when i checked the forums here it was almost a given that we had hit and killed ~200 piglets.
now its back to "waiting for time and place" ?

Sharmaji, We can only pass on news. We have no ways of confirming it.
Recent news is that armed men have entered Mumbai again check the line

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Men-carrying-arms-spotted-near-Mumbai-Indian-Navy-on-high-alert/articleshow/54463018.cms

Men carrying arms spotted near Mumbai, Indian Navy on high alert

Are we on another Mumbai
26/11 is 4 days from now. It would be pathetic if we get hit again lose another 200 lives and then say this is non state actors wanting to create war between India and Pakistan and our Govt and Babus are caught "dickless" again

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby SSharma » 22 Sep 2016 17:00

Iyersan wrote:
SSharma wrote:a few hours ago when i checked the forums here it was almost a given that we had hit and killed ~200 piglets.
now its back to "waiting for time and place" ?

Sharmaji, We can only pass on news. We have no ways of confirming it.
Recent news is that armed men have entered Mumbai again check the line


you are right, the people with actual know will not say much
so we are just reduced to basically posting forwarded whatsapp messages here.

it says something about us when just the news of us attacking the pakis seems so unbelieveable

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby habal » 22 Sep 2016 17:01

As I see the chain of command, there seem to be issues from what I can infer from hearsay:

1. Prime Minister gives a free hand to do the needful (as per media reports)
2. Proceeding that 1 is true, giving a free hand means that he has left decisions to the army, but because in India the army is not autonomous decision making body the intermediary for political class and army is babudom, and what in practical terms the PMs order means is that babus have been given a free hand.

So unless the Prime Minister CAN MAKE THE TIME and overrule the babu, there are not going to be any radical decisions going to be made here even with a free hand given to the army.

the babu is NEVER going to take a decision to go for war/cold start/hot chase/petulant punch or anything of that sort. Ajit Doval or PM or any of his trusted confidantes have to sit with the babus ON THEIR HEAD and make them do what is necessary. Or else deal with army without babu intermediaries.

Then it means seriousness of intent.

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby rsingh » 22 Sep 2016 17:08

Akshay Kapoor wrote:Okay finally managed to reach someone in DGMO. He says the situation is the same - army not involved in deliberations for response which are lead by Babus. Nothing being done except babus rebutting every option saying there can be a retaliation. They want 0 retaliation solutions which are impossible. Some units may take on local targets of opportunity but no directives from political establishment beyond 'same old bs' in his words.


With my experience I tend to belive local panwala more then "some one who is in inner circle". Most of the time these are irrelevent guys who will say anything that you want to hear. Those who knows,do not speak about it . Take it as thumb rule.

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby schinnas » 22 Sep 2016 17:20

Habalji, tactical and operational decisions of army especially on the ground are with army...not babus. Ofcourse civilian leadership, i.e. Parikkar has a veto.

Modi giving freehand to army means Army chief and Parrikar have been given a free hand. Parrikar has gone on record saying that our reaction should have been knee jerk and immediate in this case similar to border shelling.

There is no doubt in my mind that our SF have made some low penetration surgical strikes across the border. However, killing 20 pigs, unless they are high value pak regular army isn't going to be sufficient enough deterrence for Pak.

Pakistan has for long indulged in sabotage and arson in our ammunition depots and in economic warfare by printing counterfeit currency (second is done with chinese help). It would be naive of us to believe that Pukistan would have made 180 degree change in strategy because we killed some 20 low value pigs.

However, SF doing strikes inside their territory coupled with heating up the LoC / IB by army and BSF would make a normal country think twice before staging coordinated fidayeen attacks. But pakistan is not a normal state that behaves like normal humans. They need a tighter slap than this.

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby prahaar » 22 Sep 2016 17:27

Strangely Giriraj Singh has commented that it is just a trailer and picture abhi baki hai. He is MOS, so not sure if he is keeping his twitter junta happy or can it be (mis)construed as an out of turn statement. Do we disregard his statement or consider it as official confirmation?

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby williams » 22 Sep 2016 17:50

We need to understand nobody is going to disclose special forces ops. Note that certain special forces are directly under PMO (from MMS times) and their operational work is highly classified. So nothing is going to be disclosed from GOI side period. We need to glean local Paki media to get a hint on what is going on. IA & BSF got freehand to retaliate in 2014 as soon as Namo became PM. So that is not new news. Special forces ops across the border is also not new to Namo govt either. It used to happen even during MMS times.

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 22 Sep 2016 18:22

We are the only country in the world where professionals (military)are not key players in national security decison making even at tactical level forget strategic. Military views are close to irrelevant in our decison making matrix. And this has not changed for decades and is getting worse. remember how Admiral Joshi resigned ?

Gentlemen and ladies (if any), I am sorry but there are NO completely safe options. This is probably the best time to make a serious rep sonar given global sentiment and preoccupations. But IAS and IFS wallas advising PM will come to the same conclusions as they always have - doing nothing is better or let the army or the poor civis living on the border absorb the shock. This is because they are clueless on strategy, history and culturally don't give a damn. They have NO stake. They are trained and experienced to bat problems away not to confront them. And the only people who can think about there issues because of their training and personal stake keep getting pushed out of the decision making.

This will not change unless a radical reform happens.

Re army powers of retaliation - it keeps changing. After 'ceasefire ' arty is certainly not allowed without political clearance. Even now battillions can only use mmgs , lmgs and RLs. 2 inch mortar rules keep changing but generally Bde Cmdr approval is required. And forget heavier calibre weapons. So free hand means - do not cross LC, do not use mortars but feel free to use mmgs and lmgs. But often local CO will not have an opportunity where these are useful. PAK's use higher calibre weapons at company level regularly. Unless you have. Substantial volume and range of fire doing anything given the restriction of not crossing LC is impossible.

Next option is fire assault - army needs permission for this post 'ceasefire' but babus have shot this down. They don't get that PaK has circumvented ceasefire by using so called BATs and these attacks.

Other options are even more 'escalatory'. If there is no appetite for escalation then nothing will happen. Maybe one day a GOC from 6 Bihar who has his fathers jayadat (no rich kids in forces anymore) and doesn't care about his career and being court may authorise a very limited fire assault if he can get away with it.

Anything else need political will.

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 22 Sep 2016 18:27

This whole we will strike at time and place of our choosing was started by Gen Bikram Singh. Then on the day of assuming command Gen Dalbir Singh said 'response will be immediate and devastating. And now says 'time and place of our choosing '. Parrikarji is in Goa and Rajnathji bless him is still talking about 'befitting reply'.

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby IndraD » 22 Sep 2016 18:28

ANIVerified account
‏@ANI_news
Every question doesn't have a yes or no answer: Vikas Swarup,MEA on if PM Modi will visit Islamabad for SAARC summit

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby SajeevJino » 22 Sep 2016 18:32

from Vishnu Som

Vishnu Som ‏@VishnuNDTV 37m37 minutes ago

3 days after reports that 10 terrorists were killed on the LoC in Uri, Army offrs tell me they aren't sure if even 1 body will be recovered


https://twitter.com/VishnuNDTV/status/7 ... 5860045824

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby JayS » 22 Sep 2016 18:34

Akshay Kapoor wrote:We are the only country in the world where professionals (military)are not key players in national security decison making even at tactical level forget strategic. Military views are close to irrelevant in our decison making matrix. And this has not changed for decades and is getting worse. remember how Admiral Joshi resigned ?

Agree completely Sir, instead of a high level meeting of PM, RM with the 3 chiefs, IB, RAW, BSF, NSA et all, what we had was a meeting chaired by HM with no one from security forces accept DGMO, who might have been there just for providing information. That itself showed that we were not seriously considering any military action immediately or at least it gave such impression. Just having a meeting with Chiefs would have sent a message that we mean business. I don't know about others, at least I had expected a meeting with our Chiefs from Forces including BSF.
Last edited by JayS on 22 Sep 2016 18:36, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby JayS » 22 Sep 2016 18:35

SajeevJino wrote:from Vishnu Som

Vishnu Som ‏@VishnuNDTV 37m37 minutes ago

3 days after reports that 10 terrorists were killed on the LoC in Uri, Army offrs tell me they aren't sure if even 1 body will be recovered


https://twitter.com/VishnuNDTV/status/7 ... 5860045824


Our Media is such a disgrace. LIke a dog biting its own master all the time... :((

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby Dilbu » 22 Sep 2016 18:58

PM Nawaz Sharif self goals at UN speech: Is India's strategic restraint against Pakistan working?
One of the most interesting things about the Uri assault is its timing. Had the terrorist strike on Indian Army's camp near LoC — in which 18 Indian soldiers were martyred and over 20 injured — not taken place bang in the middle of 71st UNGA, Nawaz Sharif's "concern" over "human rights violations in Kashmir" wouldn't have sounded so hypocritical as it did.
It stands to reason, therefore, that the Pakistan-sponsored Uri strike came at an inopportune time for Nawaz Sharif. On the face of it, this makes no sense. Why would Rawalpindi willfully weaken its case against India when it had a chance to corner New Delhi on a global platform over Kashmir?
The answer may lie in Narendra Modi government's response. In limiting itself to "diplomatic offensive", the Centre may have pre-empted a Pakistani move that was relying on a sharp counter-attack from India as a reaction to Uri. That would have handed Nawaz the chance to play the victim card at UN and, even more crucially, given army chief Raheel a chance to sign off on a high.
It does not matter whether or not Pakistan Army wins or loses battles against India. For a dysfunctional state whose raison d'être is anti-India hatred, any military reversal could later be revisioned and turned into a self-delusional propaganda of victory, as Pakistan Army has done so often in the past. What matters is the original Islamic State's "never ending battle" against what it calls 'Hindustan'.

"A war against India, whose outcome may be declared a victory even if the reality is otherwise, will not only be a fitting end to his (Raheel Sharif's) tenure but helpful in realising his future ambitions, whatever these be."
This, then, could partly explain why a disconcerted Nawaz gave India juicy full tosses which were duly hit out of the park. While addressing the UNGA, PM Nawaz said: "Confrontation should not be our destiny in South Asia, Pakistan wants peace with India. I have gone the extra mile to achieve this, repeatedly offering a dialogue to address all outstanding issues. But India has posed unacceptable preconditions to engage in a dialogue."
It is astonishing that Nawaz's speech-writers in Rawalpindi didn't think this through. Vikas Swarup, spokesperson of India's Ministry of External Affairs, tweeted soon after: "PM Sharif at #UNGA says India poses unacceptable conditions to dialogue. India's only condition is an end to terrorism. This not acceptable?"

There were more gaffes.
"Burhan Wani," said Nawaz during the address, "the young leader murdered by Indian forces, has emerged as the symbol of the latest Kashmiri Intifada."
As far as self-inflicted wounds go, this would rank among the deepest. A Pakistan Prime Minister, while straining hard to convince the world from a UN platform that it "condemns terrorism in all its forms" in the same breath hailed the commander of a known terrorist outfit Hizbul Mujaheedin as a "hero". It may have been a not-so-subtle way of inciting more violence in Kashmir but in the process, Pakistan made its position a little more untenable before the global stage and pushed itself further into a corner.
MJ Akbar called it "self incrimination by Pakistan PM" while Vikas Swarup called it "glorifying a terrorist".

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby SBajwa » 22 Sep 2016 19:08

by Iyerson
Iyersan wrote:
CHeck out todays timesof India news. Govt denies special forces crossed LOC. however I see a sudden spurt in encounters along LoC. Am not able to connect the dots. What are we doing? GOI says PM has given the army a free hand, but there must be constraints which they might not be able to cross. And why the hell is the GOI not talking to all service chiefs together to have a cohesive strategy. I only see Modi, Rajnanth CCS and Army chief. Why not Navy and Air force? Are we doing anything at all?

Stop watching Aajtak, NDTV and other anti-national TV channels. PMO, NSA met with all three chiefs in War room of South Block!!

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby rsingh » 22 Sep 2016 19:13

^^^
Trying to define inaction as something chanikyan is a pass-time of our intellectuals.

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby Kashi » 22 Sep 2016 19:17

JayS wrote:Our Media is such a disgrace. LIke a dog biting its own master all the time... :((


Look at it this way JaySJi, the "army ofsrs" are saying that it's unlikely that "even 1 body will be recovered" is because all those 10 halaled piglets lie across the LoC. Why would any sane person cross the LoC to recover and drag the rotting corpses across, instead of dispatching more jeehadis to eternal sodomy in jahannum? :twisted:

If only the media were not so dense..

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby Philip » 22 Sep 2016 20:02

The phrase "befitting reply"should be banned in India! That's all our masters are capable of.There was a fine cartoon.Pak sends over bullets and grenades and we send in reply "blah,blah,blah"!

Even the tiniest of diplomatic slaps in the face have not been done.The least we should've done to honour the martyrs was booting out the Paki pig of an envoy and banned all eco ties and intervisitation .

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby Surya » 22 Sep 2016 20:10

x posting form other thread -maybe we need to just have one

questions to ponder

(a) Why did Nawaz Sharif ring up the Army Chief(Rahil Sharif), just before his UNGA speech? What has transpired between both??

(b) Why has POK been declared a No-Fly Zone by Pak? All PIA flights to Gilgit and Skardu have been terminated indefinitely.

(c) The Indian RM spoke about the possibility of a 'knee-jerk' reaction. What is the understanding of the term ' knee jerk' reaction??

(d) What has enabled Congressman Ted Poe to initiate a Bill to declare Pak a 'Terror State' ??

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby Paul » 22 Sep 2016 20:17

Nawaz Sharif is playing to the local audience. His neck is on the line....The international audience is of secondary consideration here.

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby kapilrdave » 22 Sep 2016 20:37

Most of all, our PM has promised us that those who are responsible will not go unpunished. That should be biggest assurance for us.

He is our PM. We HAVE to take his promise seriously. It is unfair to evaluate Modi with MMS's prejudice.

And what's with people worrying about 2019 elections? Has now the terror attacks become election issue for BRFites as well? I'm sure Modi knows a bit more than us about how to (and how not to) win elections?

If at all, we should be happy that at least this gov is not using the terror events to gain political mileage. A bit better than Taj attack being called a "saffron terror". eh?

In all likelihood govt is doing what's best for the nation at the moment. If they are mum about actual attacks, it's understandable. And if the attack really not happened, then we have our PM's promise who has a track record of delivering on the promises. What do we get by not believing him?

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby JayS » 22 Sep 2016 20:39

Kashi wrote:
Look at it this way JaySJi, the "army ofsrs" are saying that it's unlikely that "even 1 body will be recovered" is because all those 10 halaled piglets lie across the LoC. Why would any sane person cross the LoC to recover and drag the rotting corpses across, instead of dispatching more jeehadis to eternal sodomy in jahannum? :twisted:

If only the media were not so dense..


What IA would mean is quite clear. But I don't think that tweet does the same. Its tone suggests it wants to say - no body no encounter - fake claim. Why can't he just stick to the line other good journos are sticking to, the likes of Nitin Gokhale, Gairav Sawant or Shiv Aroor??

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby Prem Kumar » 22 Sep 2016 20:42

Here's my prediction of India's one-two punch:

1) Explain why we can't react till UNGA is over & how we achieve diplomatic victory in isolating Pakistan (Babu Victory >>> Military Victory)
2) After 1 week, if we attack, it will look like we are the aggressor and it will be an unprovoked attack. Since we have lost the "window of opportunity to retaliate", we will wait for the next opportunity

This is how "time & place of our choosing" works

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby JayS » 22 Sep 2016 20:46

kapilrdave wrote:In all likelihood govt is doing what's best for the nation at the moment. If they are mum about actual attacks, it's understandable. And if the attack really not happened, then we have our PM's promise who has a track record of delivering on the promises. What do we get by not believing him?


I actually like the strategy of doing a covert Ops, leaking it through some small time unknown journos so as to ensure mango man that its being taken care of and simultaneously put entire machinery (even MSM by taking it into confidence beforehand) to vehemently deny it, maintaining full deniability. "Ek tir se do shikar", if you ask me. Real Chanakiyan. Sadly we may never know if it was really this or something else.

Cross-border strike or no strike, this govt is at least showing some fangs by talking about MFN and IWT now. A far cry from previous dispensation. Things may pick up slowly. Hope its not just limited to talks and intent of action is also there if need be. Actually MFN should have been directly cancelled without any thinking. IWT - giving statement and all is OK. Lets see whats more in the offing.

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Re: Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

Postby Rahul M » 22 Sep 2016 21:07

since no further info about the uri incident is expected I am locking this thread.

continue at viewtopic.php?f=3&p=2048018#p2048018


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