LCA: News & Discussions - October 2016

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 23 Jan 2017 19:40

suryag wrote:..to have an aborted landing(touch and go) on rajpath(in front of the chief guest) ..

Our patriotic media will no doubt spin this in Tejas's favour

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 23 Jan 2017 21:44

I am more concerned about the chief guest browning his pants is tejas does any of that.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 23 Jan 2017 21:48

This year's chief guest will not be wearing pants (or may be he does under his Thawb aka Tunic!)...

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Jan 2017 22:41

Guys lots of useless comments and posts are being made in all the mil threads.

Please restrain yourself and cut down the noise.

Thanks,
ramana

SKrishna · Post by **SKrishna** » 24 Jan 2017 01:08

Does the foremost Tejas has the Cobham quartz radome. Seems to be of slightly different shade of gray that the rest. Purely speculative...

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 24 Jan 2017 01:37

JTull wrote:

5 Tejas Lineup at Bikaner Link

superb! do they have a larger sized pic?

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 24 Jan 2017 03:41

SKrishna wrote:Does the foremost Tejas has the Cobham quartz radome. Seems to be of slightly different shade of gray that the rest. Purely speculative...

All the Tejas fighters on the tarmac in the pic have the Cobham quartz radome- SPs were equipped with that radome from the start and LSP-3 was also equipped with the quartz radome. Only the Tejas trainer PV-6 has the older kevlar one.

LSP-3 quartz radome

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Jan 2017 05:29

Kartik. Does the quartz redone means the Elta radar is fitted also?

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 24 Jan 2017 06:42

yes, the LSP-3 and SP-1 to 3 are all equipped with the Elta 2032 radar. PV-6 as the final trainer standard was also equipped with the Elta 2032 radar.

In addition to the new engine (GE-404 IN20), PV6 had on board a new communication system, radar, EW sensors and navigation systems for automatic landing. Operations from the front and rear cockpits are fully exchangeable.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Jan 2017 07:19

Great news.

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 24 Jan 2017 07:36

SaiK wrote:
JTull wrote:

5 Tejas Lineup at Bikaner Link
superb! do they have a larger sized pic?

http://i.imgur.com/WOyOPNz.jpg

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 24 Jan 2017 13:37

It seems LSP-8 has started flying again and if I am right it is the one fitted with IFR probe
https://www.ada.gov.in/images/flighttestnews.htm

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 24 Jan 2017 14:15

Seems the trainer version PV-6 has been seconded to the squadron. Makes sense for faster type conversion of pilots.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 24 Jan 2017 14:22

Nope LSP-3 and PV-6 are very much with ADA. They are there as backups to SP 1,2,3.

nits · Post by **nits** » 24 Jan 2017 14:26

LCA practising on Rajpath for 26/01

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 24 Jan 2017 14:30

Are those the new drop tanks optimised for supersonic regimes?

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 24 Jan 2017 20:36

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 25 Jan 2017 20:31

Q: On scale models when they did the CFD analysis, did they include the drop tanks /full config?

-------------------
PS:
apparently yes:

https://www.ada.gov.in/images/IOC%20con ... 0Final.pdf

Subdas · Post by **Subdas** » 25 Jan 2017 20:53

Numbers make a big impression. The formation flying by 3 Tejas made my day. I have been following the LCA for last 25 years and still remember the days when used to go looking at remote US libs for Aviation magazines in hope of getting some info on LCA which was so less in those days and the fights used to have with Chinese posters who had written off the LCA as it would not even make to the air!

Marten · Post by **Marten** » 25 Jan 2017 21:37

Indranil wrote:Nope LSP-3 and PV-6 are very much with ADA. They are there as backups to SP 1,2,3.

Would it not make sense if they produced more trainers initially and then single seater when production stabilizes around mid 2017?

ranjan.rao · Post by **ranjan.rao** » 25 Jan 2017 21:49

sdas1645 wrote:Numbers make a big impression. The formation flying by 3 Tejas made my day. I have been following the LCA for last 25 years and still remember the days when used to go looking at remote US libs for Aviation magazines in hope of getting some info on LCA which was so less in those days and the fights used to have with Chinese posters who had written off the LCA as it would not even make to the air!

I can only think about the ecstacy..have been visiting this thread for close to last 6/7 years and the very image gives this munna jazbati goose bumps

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 26 Jan 2017 11:54

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 26 Jan 2017 12:08

ranjan.rao wrote:
sdas1645 wrote:Numbers make a big impression. The formation flying by 3 Tejas made my day. I have been following the LCA for last 25 years and still remember the days when used to go looking at remote US libs for Aviation magazines in hope of getting some info on LCA which was so less in those days and the fights used to have with Chinese posters who had written off the LCA as it would not even make to the air!
I can only think about the ecstacy..have been visiting this thread for close to last 6/7 years and the very image gives this munna jazbati goose bumps

+1, and what a let down it was! DD can go to hell, and rot there.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 26 Jan 2017 12:18

Cross-posting
Non-DD stuff

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 26 Jan 2017 12:35

Tejas has arrived. This is the fulfillment of the desires and prayers of all you forum members and I congratulate all of you.

The last steps remaining is the ramp up of production and continuous evolution to Mk1A and Mk2 so that we can scrap RFP for single engine fighter.

In my observation, indigenous equipment outnumbered foreign in this year's Republic Day. IA proudly showcased Akash, Rudra, Swati and Dhanush in service. Only the T-90s and BMPs are the remaining vestiges that I hope will be replaced by indigenous counterparts in the next 10 years.

ATAGS gives me great hopes of how programs should be run.

Sadly poor camera work robbed any views of Arudra, Swati, Rudra or Tejas.

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 26 Jan 2017 12:48

arshyam wrote:
ranjan.rao wrote: I can only think about the ecstacy..have been visiting this thread for close to last 6/7 years and the very image gives this munna jazbati goose bumps
+1, and what a let down it was! DD can go to hell, and rot there.

+100 to that!! What a royal screw up!!!

Instead of making them the star of the show, they are busy showing the crowd there!!! No sense of priority!! Even in the case of the solo Su30 MKI..

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 26 Jan 2017 15:28

Sarkar sir - why " all you" and "all of us"

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 31 Jan 2017 17:11

ANALYSIS: India's LCA programme keeps on fighting

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ng-433342/

India’s Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) fighter programme has had a long and chequered history. The process from first flight of a technology demonstrator to service entry, in July 2016, took 15 years. The “Tejas” received government approval in 2016 for another 83 airplanes specified to the Mk1A standard, adding to 40 earlier orders for the Mk1 version. But the programme received a public rebuke recently, when the new chief admiral Sunil Lanba said the LCA Navy version does not meet requirements, and the service wants a new carrier-borne fighter by 2021-2022.

The Tejas Mk1A will be the definitive version for the air force, to be followed by the re-configured Tejas Mk2 and LCA Navy Mk2 versions.

“In the 2017 timeframe, we would like to do a re-configuration of the aircraft to make it better in terms of aerodynamic performance. Following this we will start the detailed design activities,” says CD Balaji, programme director at the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA). “We are targeting 2020-2021 as the date for maiden flight on LCA Mk2,” he confirms.

ADA is also looking to have the first flight of the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) prototype in 2025 and now plans to develop a new twin-engine fighter for the navy’s carriers. The proposed timelines for the AMCA and new navy fighter appear optimistic, considering the limited staff available to ADA and amount of work required to complete development of Tejas Mk1A and LCA Mk2 versions.

The main tasks for the LCA programme are now related to completion of final operational clearance (FOC) tasks for Tejas Mk1, development of the Tejas Mk1A, Tejas Mk2 and LCA Navy Mk2. Initial operation clearance (IOC) for the Tejas Mk1 was obtained in December 2013. This is the standard to which Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) will build the first 20 aeroplanes. Three aircraft have already been delivered to the air force and six more will be delivered in 2017. All 20 airplanes (IOC standard) will be delivered by 2018 and the remaining 20 aircraft (FOC standard) will be delivered by 2020. The ramp-up in production is vital to meeting air force requirements for additional fighters.

To prepare for the increase in production rates for Tejas, HAL will invest 50% of the cost required to raise the production capacity from eight aircraft per year to 16 aircraft per year, while the air force and navy will invest 25% each.

“If we can demonstrate the Mk1A standard by 2018 – then all aircraft produced after that will be to the Mk1A standard including the 20 FOC aircraft,” says HAL chairman Suvarna Raju.

Manufacturing of the 83 Mk1A aircraft will commence in 2020 and continue until about 2025. ADA officials peg the cost of the Tejas Mk1A at $40 million per aircraft. The budgetary approval of $7.7 billion for 83 aircraft also includes the complete ecosystem for all 123 aircraft on order and includes support for the build-up of squadrons, infrastructure for first and second line servicing. It also covers the establishment of ground infrastructure and engine support and servicing facilities at bases.

The Tejas Mk1A will deliver substantially improved combat capability over preceding variants. It will be able to carry the beyond-visual-range Israeli Rafael Derby and air-to-air Russian R-73 close combat missiles. The new I-Derby, which has an advertised range of 33nm (62km), has also been offered for use on Tejas.

ADA officials tell FlightGlobal that MBDA’s ASRAAM is another weapon that is being considered for the aircraft. HAL has already worked to integrate the ASRAAM to a helmet mounted display for the air force Jaguar DARIN III upgrade, so no challenges are expected in the integration of the weapon with the Tejas.

The Tejas Mk1A will also have a new active electronically scanned array radar (AESA), an electronic warfare suite (comprising a digital radar warning receiver and podded jammer), and an in-flight refuelling probe. In December 2016, HAL issued a request for quotation for supply of an AESA radar for the Mk1A, to Elta, Saab, Raytheon, Thales and Rosoboronexport. ADA also says that it is planning to integrate an indigenously developed AESA radar on one of the LCA prototypes.

Surprisingly, the underperforming Kaveri aero engine has got a new lease of life and will be fitted on an LCA prototype by 2018. The Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO) will get help on the troubled engine from Snecma, as part of its offset obligations for the Dassault Rafale deal. The new expenditure to review the Kaveri programme will cost about $89 million according to DRDO officials, who are optimistic that a Kaveri-powered LCA prototype will make its first flight in 2018-2019, once the certification and safety related aspects are resolved. Approximately $313 million has already been spent to design and develop a modern fighter class aero engine under the Kaveri programme.

Meanwhile, Tejas Mk1 variants will be powered by the General Electric F404 engine and the F414 will be used on Mk2 variants.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 31 Jan 2017 17:43

Kaveri one is the most welcome news. Astra, Kaveri along with our AESA will largely free LCA for exports in case we can find a market.

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 31 Jan 2017 19:02

✈Anantha Krishnan M ✈
‏@writetake

#JustIn
#Tejas LSP8 today successfully flew with air-to-air refueling probe. Did air data test points till 0.6 Mach. All parameters normal.
2:24 PM - 31 Jan 2017

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 31 Jan 2017 19:21

Tejas SP-4 at striking distance from first flight

“All efforts are to see that the aircraft (SP-4) is ready for the upcoming Aero India 2017,” Sridharan said. Next in line platforms SP-5 and SP-6 are also in different stages of assembly and undergoing equipping at the facility.
...

With most of the major assembly structures now being outsourced, the production has picked up momentum. Different modules for platforms till SP-11 have hit the production floor now.

Among the main parts outsourced are: wing to L&T (Coimbatore), central fuselage VEM Technologies (Hyderabad) and rear fuselage Alpha Tocol (Bengaluru). The precision mechanical assemblies are being done by Alpa Tocol and BrahMos Aerospace (Thiruvananthapuram).

“Currently the level of outsourcing is around 39 per cent. When all the new initiatives taken recently to step up the production rate come to play, then the level of outsourcing will increase to 61 per cent as far as standard man hours are concerned,” says Sridharan.

As per the plans for 2016-17, SP-4, SP-5 and SP-6 should be handed over to Indian Air Force by coming March.

...

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 31 Jan 2017 19:35

Anantha Krishnan

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 31 Jan 2017 20:43

What a gorgeous aircraft! Waiting on the MK-2, that will be stunning! So IAF will have 6 aircraft in another few months?! Very cool!

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 31 Jan 2017 22:03

Kakarat wrote:Tejas SP-4 at striking distance from first flight

“All efforts are to see that the aircraft (SP-4) is ready for the upcoming Aero India 2017,” Sridharan said. Next in line platforms SP-5 and SP-6 are also in different stages of assembly and undergoing equipping at the facility.
...

With most of the major assembly structures now being outsourced, the production has picked up momentum. Different modules for platforms till SP-11 have hit the production floor now.

Among the main parts outsourced are: wing to L&T (Coimbatore), central fuselage VEM Technologies (Hyderabad) and rear fuselage Alpha Tocol (Bengaluru). The precision mechanical assemblies are being done by Alpa Tocol and BrahMos Aerospace (Thiruvananthapuram).

“Currently the level of outsourcing is around 39 per cent. When all the new initiatives taken recently to step up the production rate come to play, then the level of outsourcing will increase to 61 per cent as far as standard man hours are concerned,” says Sridharan.

As per the plans for 2016-17, SP-4, SP-5 and SP-6 should be handed over to Indian Air Force by coming March.

...

This is music to my ears. Lungi dance time. It cheered me up like anything after a very long and tiring office day. So finally HAL got their 3rd major Tier-1 supplier. Best news I have seen in quite some time now for LCA, apart from Republic day appearance.

Remember HAL Chairman said that with 80% outsourcing they can easily achieve 25/yr production rate which was the target for HAL for outsourcing. If they can achieve 69% in coming 1-2yrs, there is no damn reason why they cannot go all the way to 80% in next 5yrs, by the time MK1A SP starts. Currently it seems the Tier-1 suppliers are only doing structural assembly and not the entire module with all the inner modules/wiring/piping etc. The aim should be to prepare these suppliers to deliver plug-and-play modules (can't do 100% but as much as possible). If I were planning for AMCA, I would involve these Tier-I suppliers in detailed design of those parts they are manufacturing and get them started with design capabalities of those modules too. So for next iteration, ADA can simply perform only the system level design and these suppliers can be full-fledged Tier-1 suppliers. Then they will have ability to diversify their portfolio and can pitch in for other programs on their own. That should be the way forward.

And icing on the cake, LSP-8 makes maiden flight with IFR probe.

DrRatnadip · Post by **DrRatnadip** » 31 Jan 2017 22:12

JayS wrote:Remember HAL Chairman said that with 80% outsourcing they can easily achieve 25/yr production rate which was the target for HAL for outsourcing. If they can achieve 69% in coming 1-2yrs, there is no damn reason why they cannot go all the way to 80% in next 5yrs, by the time MK1A SP starts. Currently it seems the Tier-1 suppliers are only doing structural assembly and not the entire module with all the inner modules/wiring/piping etc. The aim should be to prepare these suppliers to deliver plug-and-play modules (can't do 100% but as much as possible). If I were planning for AMCA, I would involve these Tier-I suppliers in detailed design of those parts they are manufacturing and get them started with design capabalities of those modules too. So for next iteration, ADA can simply perform only the system level design and these suppliers can be full-fledged Tier-1 suppliers. Then they will have ability to diversify their portfolio and can pitch in for other programs on their own. That should be the way forward.

And icing on the cake, LSP-8 makes maiden flight with IFR probe.

This is realy a very good news. Do we realy need teens now??

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 31 Jan 2017 23:45

Is the LCA IFR probe fixed?

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 31 Jan 2017 23:59

Kakarat wrote:Anantha Krishnan

Earlier probe was at a different location, current placement seems to be inline with discussion on BRF that it might be obstructing radar.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 01 Feb 2017 01:31

JayS wrote:
This is music to my ears. Lungi dance time. It cheered me up like anything after a very long and tiring office day. So finally HAL got their 3rd major Tier-1 supplier. Best news I have seen in quite some time now for LCA, apart from Republic day appearance.

Remember HAL Chairman said that with 80% outsourcing they can easily achieve 25/yr production rate which was the target for HAL for outsourcing. If they can achieve 69% in coming 1-2yrs, there is no damn reason why they cannot go all the way to 80% in next 5yrs, by the time MK1A SP starts. Currently it seems the Tier-1 suppliers are only doing structural assembly and not the entire module with all the inner modules/wiring/piping etc. The aim should be to prepare these suppliers to deliver plug-and-play modules (can't do 100% but as much as possible). If I were planning for AMCA, I would involve these Tier-I suppliers in detailed design of those parts they are manufacturing and get them started with design capabalities of those modules too. So for next iteration, ADA can simply perform only the system level design and these suppliers can be full-fledged Tier-1 suppliers. Then they will have ability to diversify their portfolio and can pitch in for other programs on their own. That should be the way forward.

And icing on the cake, LSP-8 makes maiden flight with IFR probe.

+100.

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 01 Feb 2017 01:39

Sid wrote:
Kakarat wrote:Anantha Krishnan

Earlier probe was at a different location, current placement seems to be inline with discussion on BRF that it might be obstructing radar.

Pardon me
but how is the probe obstructing radar in the second pic
Both seem non obstructing to me.

The second one seems more aerodynamicky to me ... no pun intended.
The first one seems quite high-ish no ?

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 01 Feb 2017 02:50

It has got nothing to do with "obstruction of radar". The new position is based on feedback from pilots on ease of refueling.