Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

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Khalsa
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Khalsa » 13 Jan 2017 14:18

Rakesh wrote:
Kartik wrote:Rakesh, you meant "slick" right?

I meant sick onlee. Means the same as slick :)


Listen .... I have enough challenges when teenagers try this new 2020 lingo with me
"She is so sick in that dress and his car is so sick "
Now you are joining their ranks ?

I might as well as wave the white flag and do a 180.

:D:D:D

tsarkar
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby tsarkar » 13 Jan 2017 15:50

I put this together on Keel Blocks and Keel Block Failure

Keel Block is a simple thing. A reinforced concrete block lined with wood on which a ship rests.

Image

Keel blocks can be seen kept in the courtyard right of dry dock

Image

The dockmaster prepared the layout based on the specific ship, like the blocks being laid out here at HSL using cranes to place

Image

Even Uncle does the same thing. Here is Pearl Harbour dry dock and destroyers on Keel Blocks.

Note how close the hull fins are to the blocks. Docking is a intricate and exact exercise.

Image

Image

Even ships of size of INS Viraat is put on keel blocks

Image

More recently, INS Vikramaditya had a refit at Cochin Shipyard Dry Dock. It was thought a ship of that size could not be accommodated in any yard in India, but CSL did a fantastic job.

For Pontoon Launch of new ships like INS Khanderi, it rests on Keel Blocks and floats up when the pontoon is submerged.

Image

Typically Keel Blocks are made by contractors or the dockyard. While all blocks should be rigorously tested, maintenance pressures may cause only some from a batch being tested.

https://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rct=j ... 4172,d.c2I

http://www.hegerdrydock.com/libraryPdf/ ... 20Navy.pdf

Yet Keel Block failures do occur. Its not uncommon

http://www.sname.org/HigherLogic/System ... 68c584a8b6

The other probable cause is equilibrium during undocking.

As per the earlier posted ToI report, the CoI is examining both probable causes.
Last edited by tsarkar on 13 Jan 2017 16:02, edited 1 time in total.

Pratyush
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Pratyush » 13 Jan 2017 16:01

Tsarkar thanks for explaining the function of keel blocks. I had been wondering about it for some time but did not know what to look for.

chola
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby chola » 13 Jan 2017 16:05

Khalsa wrote:
Rakesh wrote:I meant sick onlee. Means the same as slick :)


Listen .... I have enough challenges when teenagers try this new 2020 lingo with me
"She is so sick in that dress and his car is so sick "
Now you are joining their ranks ?

I might as well as wave the white flag and do a 180.

:D:D:D



Stateside, this term has been around sunce the 1980s. "That's sick!" means that is really COOL!
Last edited by chola on 13 Jan 2017 16:13, edited 1 time in total.

chola
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby chola » 13 Jan 2017 16:09

Kakarat wrote:Image

Better view of INS Visakhapatnam and INS Mormugao



The Visak is a glorious lady!

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Singha » 13 Jan 2017 16:19

is it me or has the radar mast and mfstar aperture grown in size over p15a?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby John » 13 Jan 2017 17:48

I think it's same and it could be more of an optical illusion.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby tsarkar » 13 Jan 2017 18:15

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/all-abou ... yer-755476

The design of the mast, which features the main radar has been revised.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby nits » 13 Jan 2017 18:31

tsarkar wrote:I put this together on Keel Blocks and Keel Block Failure

Keel Block is a simple thing. A reinforced concrete block lined with wood on which a ship rests.


Have seen such blocks in some flyovers also

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby nits » 13 Jan 2017 18:39

tsarkar wrote:I put this together on Keel Blocks and Keel Block Failure

Keel Block is a simple thing. A reinforced concrete block lined with wood on which a ship rests.

Image


Seen such concrete block lined with wood used for flyovers also; means its tried and tested method and is durable

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Karthik S » 13 Jan 2017 20:23

tsarkar wrote:http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/all-about-the-ins-visakhapatnam-navys-newest-destroyer-755476

The design of the mast, which features the main radar has been revised.


I read somewhere that we were in talk with Russians to reduce the size. Can't tell looking at above pic if that's what been accomplished.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 13 Jan 2017 20:56

shiv wrote:
Rakesh wrote:propellors are usually (actually almost) always covered in tarp. I could be wrong, but the number of blades gives some crucial info to the enemy.

Rakesh although covered - that prop has 6 blades - easy to see from the image

Shiv, good eyes :) But propeller are usually hidden. Like I said, a more informed poster would be able to explain.

See below....

http://americanhistory.si.edu/subs/anglesdangles/taming2.html

See this Virginia Class boat. See how the propeller blade is covered? I assume, they will flood the entire thing and then remove the cover. Also take a look at this link (image is TOO large to put on forum).

http://i.imgur.com/ZauJ9.jpg

Image

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 13 Jan 2017 21:03

chola wrote:
Khalsa wrote:Listen .... I have enough challenges when teenagers try this new 2020 lingo with me
"She is so sick in that dress and his car is so sick "
Now you are joining their ranks ?

I might as well as wave the white flag and do a 180 :D:D:D

Stateside, this term has been around since the 1980s. "That's sick!" means that is really COOL!

That is so SICK chola. Sorry Khalsa! :D

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby JohnTitor » 13 Jan 2017 21:12

Rakesh wrote:See this Virginia Class boat. See how the propeller blade is covered? I assume, they will flood the entire thing and then remove the cover. Also take a look at this link (image is TOO large to put on forum).

The Virginia class doesn't have propellers. Uses a pump-jet instead.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 13 Jan 2017 21:13

John: You are correct. I meant pump jet propulsion. Not propellors.

But the point I was trying to make was that even they are covered.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby JohnTitor » 13 Jan 2017 21:16

Sure - not disputing what you said. But in the case of pumpjets, they are hidden anyway

You could only see the blades if you looked straight at it (but even then only if the reversing bucket is disengaged). In that pic you posted of the Virginia class sub, the bucket is clearly engaged. Beautiful picture BTW.

Image

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 13 Jan 2017 21:22

John: Wow! I never knew that. Stupid question....what purpose does the bucket serve? I am having a hard time figuring what the second diagram is supposed to represent. What is the point of the water flow going down and under? I thought the pump jet only had this...representational diagram of a Virginia Class pump jet. The only thing I can think of is of an emergency blow.

Image

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby SNaik » 13 Jan 2017 21:37

shiv wrote:
Rakesh wrote:propellors are usually (actually almost) always covered in tarp. I could be wrong, but the number of blades gives some crucial info to the enemy.

Rakesh although covered - that prop has 6 blades - easy to see from the image

Only six, not seven?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby JohnTitor » 13 Jan 2017 21:39

Rakesh: Its similar to thrust-vectoring nozzles jet-aircraft have. The reversing bucket as such allows for the ship go into reverse without having to change the direction of blade rotation as well as not having to change the steering direction, both allow for better agility of the craft.

Not an expert by any stretch of the imagination, but wikipedia has some information.

They are best suited for a N-sub because pumpjets can be quite heavy and bulky. (although so much quieter)

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby shiv » 13 Jan 2017 21:49

SNaik wrote:
shiv wrote:Rakesh although covered - that prop has 6 blades - easy to see from the image

Only six, not seven?

You tell me
Image

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby shiv » 13 Jan 2017 21:52

JohnTitor wrote:Rakesh: Its similar to thrust-vectoring nozzles jet-aircraft have.

I think you mean thrust reversers that civil aircraft engines have
Image

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 13 Jan 2017 21:55

shiv wrote:Image

I think John means this....

http://gwatt.smugmug.com/Airplanes/Macdill-2010/Brandons-shotsMar2120103180-F/817660156_4CM46-X2.jpg

by the way shiv, that link also has this line....
https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/your-photos-videos/49199-f-22-exhaust-nozzles.html
Had them covered for security reason....

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 13 Jan 2017 21:57

JohnTitor wrote:Rakesh: Its similar to thrust-vectoring nozzles jet-aircraft have. The reversing bucket as such allows for the ship go into reverse without having to change the direction of blade rotation as well as not having to change the steering direction, both allow for better agility of the craft.

Not an expert by any stretch of the imagination, but wikipedia has some information.

They are best suited for a N-sub because pumpjets can be quite heavy and bulky. (although so much quieter)

Oh my goodness...reverse. Of all the possibilities....I did not think of that! Thanks John.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 13 Jan 2017 22:06

shiv wrote:
SNaik wrote:Only six, not seven?

You tell me

SNaik: I am going to side with Shiv and go with six after seeing the picture below. Guess no one gave a damn about propeller blade secrecy during the Kalvari launch...click on the link below and go to Slide No 8.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/slideshows/infrastructure/kalvari-indian-navys-first-scorpene-class-stealth-submarine/enormous-fillip/slideshow/46833197.cms

A better shot of the propellor blade during the Khanderi launch....

http://images.asianage.com/images/e1b63399e66a080d5607642689b3b40d13032cb1-tc-img-original.jpg

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby JohnTitor » 13 Jan 2017 22:07

The pumpjet nozzle (I'm not sure about the Virginia class per say) can be moved such that it provides directional thrust - so you don't need to rely on a rudder.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 13 Jan 2017 22:35


Kakarat
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Kakarat » 13 Jan 2017 22:49

Photos of propeller blades are available on the net
This is from INS Kalvari launch period

Image

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 13 Jan 2017 22:51

Kakarat wrote:Photos of propeller blades are available on the net
This is from INS Kalvari launch period.

I posted that picture above...

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Snehashis » 13 Jan 2017 23:22

SNaik wrote:
shiv wrote:Rakesh although covered - that prop has 6 blades - easy to see from the image

Only six, not seven?



It's 5 actually.


Image


http://en.francais-express.com/upload/i ... 74533_.jpg

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ShauryaT » 13 Jan 2017 23:45


The trailer looks promising. Dramatized of course but that is what movies are for. Would love to see TSarkar's scenario, where sailors have to hold their pee, to prevent detection by enemy sonar.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby nirav » 14 Jan 2017 01:47

The CGI graphics are garbage.cant expect much from a Karan Johar movie anyway.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby chola » 14 Jan 2017 02:09

Rakesh wrote:
chola wrote:Stateside, this term has been around since the 1980s. "That's sick!" means that is really COOL!

That is so SICK chola. Sorry Khalsa! :D


This is really sick!

Image

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby John » 14 Jan 2017 02:42

tsarkar wrote:http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/all-about-the-ins-visakhapatnam-navys-newest-destroyer-755476

The design of the mast, which features the main radar has been revised.

Yes I don't think size was increased but the shape was altered a bit. At least that is what I can see based on P-15b CGI images and comparing them with Kolkata.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Cybaru » 14 Jan 2017 02:43

what is that ship chola?

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 14 Jan 2017 02:44

USS Gerald Ford - America's latest and greatest aircraft carrier.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Gerald_R._Ford

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Rakesh » 14 Jan 2017 02:52

ShauryaT wrote:

The trailer looks promising. Dramatized of course but that is what movies are for. Would love to see TSarkar's scenario, where sailors have to hold their pee, to prevent detection by enemy sonar.

The movie is based on this book:

Blue Fish: The War Beneath
https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Fish-War-Beneath-Sankalp-ebook/dp/B00LFGQ89A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1484342263&sr=8-1&keywords=The+Blue+Fish%3A+War+Beneath

The Ghazi Attack
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ghazi_Attack_(film)

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby chola » 14 Jan 2017 02:53

Rakesh wrote:USS Gerald Ford - America's latest and greatest aircraft carrier.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Gerald_R._Ford



Yes and possibly a blueprint (maybe a scaled down version) for the upcoming IAC-II INS Vishal. CATOBAR, EMALS and possibly nuclear-powered. Given US involvement, there is no reason not to hope.

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Gagan » 14 Jan 2017 04:39

Pump jets are also supposed to be quieter, apart from providing thrust vectoring to the subs.
More sub designs are moving to propulsors from simple propellers

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Prem » 14 Jan 2017 04:44

Check this link for various Sea Hulks
https://twitter.com/aircraftcarrier
Image

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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby shaun » 14 Jan 2017 23:07

i never new these "Transition .." series of books are available online !! here https://www.indiannavy.nic.in/content/books


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