Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

All threads that are locked or marked for deletion will be moved to this forum. The topics will be cleared from this archive on the 1st and 16th of each month.
Locked
mody
BRFite
Posts: 1362
Joined: 18 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Mumbai, India

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by mody »

The GE engines are much more reliable then the Klimov RD-33 and also offer lower fuel fraction or higher fuel efficiency with comparable thrust. The GE F414 might even offer higher thrust as compared to the RD-33.
One of the biggest problems of the Mig-29s has always been the reliability of the engines, the high maintenance cost of the engines, the low MTBO, as also the short legs and low TOS for the aircraft.
For STOBAR carrier operations, the plane might not be able to carry its full fuel load. This will further reduce the range and TOS leading to very sub-optimal carrier operation and the Mig-29.
The GE engines can solve the reliability and maintenance problems for sure and can also help increase the range and time on station for the Mig-29. This can lead to much better performance and much better availability of the Mig-29 fleet.
NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19224
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by NRao »

brar_w wrote:
Philip wrote:We could change the LCA's US GE engine to an EJ-200 TVC,The LCA with TVC would be even deadlier.
The only western OEM that has actually designed, produced and test flown a working, integrated 3D TVC nozzle is GE. GE designed it in the 80's, built and flew it in the 90's and even offered to SAAB/Volvo for the Gripen at the time as well.
That said, the current Indian plan envisions US based engines and Russian based TVC (consultancy)(for the AMCA?).
JTull
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3113
Joined: 18 Jul 2001 11:31

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by JTull »

Without local manufacture and full ToT I'd not put another aircraft type at the mercy of Americans. Kaveri should be the first choice for replacing RD-33, if at all.
Bheeshma
BRFite
Posts: 592
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 22:01

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by Bheeshma »

Second that JTull. +108 only!!
John
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3447
Joined: 03 Feb 2001 12:31

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by John »

Once again please keep mig 29k discussion on naval aviation section.
Aditya G wrote:
Karthik S wrote:Looks like INS Kolkata has been fitted with the black sensors on the mast that we saw on Chennai...
Wild guess- are they some type of RCS reduction devices?
My guess would be for EW based on its placement. Possibly be incorporated into mast on P15b.
Vivek K
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2931
Joined: 15 Mar 2002 12:31

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by Vivek K »

tsarkar wrote:
Vivek K wrote:Any updates on Betwa - the ship that had fallen on its sides in drydock?
It will be upright by end of this month if things go as per plan
Great! Will it be salvageable? Any details about that?
Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23387
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by Austin »

Details on VLS Shtil-1

http://bastion-opk.ru/shtil/
"Shtil 1" is used 9M317ME guided missile, which is a further development of the land ammunition SAM "Buk". Solid rocket 9M317ME located in TPK MS-487. This single-stage rocket with solid engine, having a length of 5.18 meters and a body diameter of not more than 360 millimeters. In the tail of the rocket has wheels with 820 mm scale. When starting a weight of around 580 kg of anti-aircraft missile 9M317ME carries 62-pound fragmentation warhead.

On the munition trajectory accelerates to speeds of the order of 1500-1550 meters per second. The main difference from previous 9M317ME missile anti-aircraft ammunition, "Buk" family is the way to run and a number of related design nuances. At the command of the anti-aircraft missile complex operator using the powder charge is fired from the TPK to a height of about 10 meters above the deck of the ship. At this altitude the rocket using its own gas rudders performs complete rotation in the direction of the target, after which include main engine and guidance system. The main difference between anti-aircraft guided missiles 9M317ME from its onshore counterpart act significantly reduced wings, folding aerodynamic control surfaces and the presence of a special unit of gas rudders, which is located on the nozzle block sustainer solid propellant. It is the unit responsible for the automatic rejection of the missile towards the target after launch.

SAM has a dual-mode sustainer engine, which allows it to reach speeds of up to 1550 m / s, the maximum range of the missile - 50 km. This provides the possibility of using rocket-corrected inertial control system, with a new Doppler semi-active radar homing (GOS). The onboard equipment of antiaircraft missile is built on a fundamentally new element base and has expanded functions to adapt to working conditions that ensure maximum probability of hitting targets in conditions of strong opposition from the radar of the enemy. SAM is equipped with high-explosive fragmentation warhead weighing 62 kg. The missile is equipped with contact and proximity fuses. The TPK without routine maintenance missile can be stored up to 15 years.
Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12187
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by Pratyush »

Vivek K wrote:
tsarkar wrote: It will be upright by end of this month if things go as per plan
Great! Will it be salvageable? Any details about that?

She will be returned to service after inspection and repairs.
NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19224
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by NRao »

JTull wrote:Without local manufacture and full ToT I'd not put another aircraft type at the mercy of Americans. Kaveri should be the first choice for replacing RD-33, if at all.
At the mercy of the French is fine?

India, when it comes to engines, for leading edge fighters, will be at the mercy of someone for a few decades to come. French help will only kick that can so far. They claim to mate it with the LCA by 2020. After that what?
Neshant
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4852
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by Neshant »

India is helping USN train its fleet to hunt down Chinese Kilo subs in the South China sea by using its own (modified) Kilo subs as targets.

JTull
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3113
Joined: 18 Jul 2001 11:31

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by JTull »

NRao wrote:
JTull wrote:Without local manufacture and full ToT I'd not put another aircraft type at the mercy of Americans. Kaveri should be the first choice for replacing RD-33, if at all.
At the mercy of the French is fine?

India, when it comes to engines, for leading edge fighters, will be at the mercy of someone for a few decades to come. French help will only kick that can so far. They claim to mate it with the LCA by 2020. After that what?
Quite the contrary. I want us to be at our own mercy. Having an aircraft from Russia and engine from US would leave us vulnerable to both. If LCA or future AMCA is not capable enough for carrier ops, and if we do need to buy another aircraft then I prefer to see both Mig-29Ks and the new aircraft in operation of all carriers for next 30-40 years. Otherwise, we are susceptible to sanctions leaving a large part of our carrier fleet sitting in port when we need it most. Having a 3 carrier plan is good only if we have atleast 2 available with full capability when we need them.
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18190
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by Rakesh »

Navy launches underwater harbour defence and surveillance system
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 960107.cms

Is the above an Indian SOSUS?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOSUS
Ankit Desai
BRFite
Posts: 634
Joined: 05 May 2006 21:28
Location: Gujarat

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by Ankit Desai »

Rakesh wrote:Navy launches underwater harbour defence and surveillance system
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 960107.cms

Is the above an Indian SOSUS?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOSUS

It is an Israeli-designed system

http://mumbaimirror.indiatimes.com/mumb ... 963144.cms

-Ankit
ranjan.rao
BRFite
Posts: 520
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 01:21

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by ranjan.rao »

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 975969.cms
It would have been mirthful irony if New Delhi had bought USS Enterprise before it is was decommissioned but US and India are now collaborating in enterprises of even greater pith and moment -- designing aircraft carriers together.
Is it too bad/late to consider its sale?
Listing the pros/cons and challenges; welcome brickbats and bouquets
Pros
1. it will give us good exposure to operating Nuclear Carriers
2. Exposure to CAT: Don't think IN pilots have been exposed to CATOBAR operations, future lies with CATOBAR or EMAL so would be good
3. Will be a great compliment to capabilities through E2C/F18s
4. Will give huge huge boost to our capabilities: we will be able to dominate China and Chinese submarines; any attack on it will also have a nuclear dimension so our enemies will also think about escalating and attacking

Cons
1. Cost: Wiki says ~4 Bn in today's prices, but that is not likely to cover retrofits and likely to be a lot more
2. A bit far down the decommissioning road; that again adds to cost in case we intend to buy it
3. May have to sign CISMOA etc
4. Forfeiture of our strategic independence (which anyways is lesser evil, eps in light of alignment of China, Pak and possibly Russia) from a sanctioning perspective
5. Tejas would not be able operate(as per post from tushar_m; havent seen him around for quite some time
Challenges:
1. $$$: Won't cheap to get into the eco system; all the ancillaries e.g.
2. Nuclear technology transfer: NSG and all the BS
3. Possibly we can forget about second Akula/FGFA
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by shiv »

ranjan.rao wrote: 2. Exposure to CAT: Don't think IN pilots have been exposed to CATOBAR operations, future lies with CATOBAR or EMAL so would be good
The last pilots who used the steam catapult of the INS Vikrant may not have retired just yet - so the knowledge base still exists.
Cybaru
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2904
Joined: 12 Jun 2000 11:31
Contact:

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by Cybaru »

USN will never sell us a nuke carrier.
ArmenT
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 4239
Joined: 10 Sep 2007 05:57
Location: Loud, Proud, Ugly American

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by ArmenT »

Don't think that the IN would want such an old ship. USS Enterprise was one of the oldest ships in the USN when she was retired (only older are the USS Constitution, which is a wooden hulled sailing ship kept for historical reasons; and the USS Pueblo, which was captured by North Korea and maintained by them, even though the USN has her officially on the books). Therefore, the Big-E was actually the oldest full time use ship in the fleet when she was retired and is 50+ years old. By the way, she was also the world's first nuclear powered carrier and there have been significant improvements made to carrier designs based on what the USN learned from her.
Supratik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6470
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 10:21
Location: USA

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by Supratik »

Question for gurus. Is the new TDV being built in Cochin for naval missile testing purpose something like a naval AWACS?
Bala Vignesh
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2131
Joined: 30 Apr 2009 02:02
Location: Standing at the edge of the cliff
Contact:

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by Bala Vignesh »

Supratik wrote:Question for gurus. Is the new TDV being built in Cochin for naval missile testing purpose something like a naval AWACS?
Not really.. Its meant for tracking a missile to its target once it is launched from Balasore test range but the system on board could be considered as being a corollary to the Aegis system, in its tracking capabilities, that USN deploys.
Gurus correct me if I am wrong here..
Supratik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6470
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 10:21
Location: USA

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by Supratik »

I know. I meant does it have war-time capabilities?
prudhviraj
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 2
Joined: 11 Jul 2009 13:37

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by prudhviraj »

Something had come out off the Veil
Check the location in google maps :D :D :D :D :D
17.708798, 83.269830
Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5380
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by Karthik S »

Is that Aridhaman?
Bala Vignesh
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2131
Joined: 30 Apr 2009 02:02
Location: Standing at the edge of the cliff
Contact:

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by Bala Vignesh »

I think its the Arihant.. Dimensions seem to indicate so, at least..
suryag
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4040
Joined: 11 Jan 2009 00:14

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by suryag »

So it's done with the k-4 test?
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18190
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by Rakesh »

While we cannot control what Google Maps does, please do not post any sightings of the Arihant Class boats if you see them yourself. The whole premise of a SSBN is to remain silent - both under the ocean and at home base. If you see one, do a quiet lungi dance...but do not post it here.
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by shiv »

Rakesh wrote:While we cannot control what Google Maps does, please do not post any sightings of the Arihant Class boats if you see them yourself. The whole premise of a SSBN is to remain silent - both under the ocean and at home base. If you see one, do a quiet lungi dance...but do not post it here.
+1

I do request that people try and spot Chinese weapons and sites instead.
Supratik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6470
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 10:21
Location: USA

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by Supratik »

There is a recent youtube clipping from Defense update claiming that Aridhaman is undergoing sea trials and will be commissioned early 2018. Don't know how reliable the info is as there is nothing on regular news.
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18190
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by Rakesh »

shiv wrote:I do request that people try and spot Chinese weapons and sites instead.
Hakeemji....you will like this :)

https://twitter.com/rajfortyseven
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18190
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by Rakesh »

Indian Navy Ship makes goodwill visit to UAE
http://www.khaleejtimes.com/nation/indi ... sit-to-uae
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18190
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by Rakesh »

Rakesh wrote:Indian Navy undertakes war exercise to test combat readiness
http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 885_1.html

India’s inter-service military exercise ‘Tropex’ kicks off
http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... f-4494692/
Images of Brahmos Surface to Surface missile (SSM) fired from INS Chennai during the TROPEX 2017 exercise
https://twitter.com/indiannavy/status/8 ... 4396923905

Images of MiG-29K taking off & landing on board INS Vikramaditya - magnificent sight - during the TROPEX 2017 exercise
https://twitter.com/indiannavy/status/8 ... 6361728001

Admiral S Lanba reviews the Indian Navy’s Theatre Level Operational Readiness Exercise (TROPEX)
https://twitter.com/indiannavy/status/8 ... 5884996611

Vice Admiral Girish Luthra, C-in-C of WNC, having a discussion with CNS & COAS onboard INS Vikramaditya
https://twitter.com/indiannavy/status/8 ... 4024081408

Images of Special Forces & MARCOS in action - Combat Free Fall & Duckdrop by IAF C-130J Super Hercules
https://twitter.com/indiannavy/status/8 ... 5022528518
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18190
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by Rakesh »

MiG-29K takes off from INS Vikramaditya during the TROPEX 2017 exercise
https://twitter.com/akananth/status/828578194508783617
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18190
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by Rakesh »

BrahMos fired from INS Chennai during the TROPEX 2017 exercise
https://twitter.com/livefist/status/828553338761404418
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18190
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by Rakesh »

Admiral Sunil Lanba meets the crew of INS Vikramaditya during the TROPEX 2017 exercise.
Officer behind the CNS is the official Indian Navy spokesperson - Captain D K Sharma.
https://twitter.com/livefist/status/828569135097507841
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18190
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by Rakesh »

On board INS Vikramaditya, Admiral Sunil Lanba and General Bipin Rawat, during the TROPEX 2017 exercise
https://twitter.com/livefist/status/828566477074673666
Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23387
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by Austin »

Photos : Tactical and operational doctrine of the Indian Navy TROPEX-2017

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2424920.html
K_Rohit
BRFite
Posts: 186
Joined: 16 Feb 2009 19:11

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by K_Rohit »

Austin wrote:Photos : Tactical and operational doctrine of the Indian Navy TROPEX-2017

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2424920.html
Thanks for sharing. Nice pics and includes a rare pic of an IN IL38 with a ASM. Is that a KH38 or a KH35? Was not sure.
Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12187
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by Pratyush »

Nube question, has anyone ever seen a picture of fully loaded MIG 29 taking off from the vikramaditya.
Bala Vignesh
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2131
Joined: 30 Apr 2009 02:02
Location: Standing at the edge of the cliff
Contact:

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by Bala Vignesh »

Pratyush wrote:Nube question, has anyone ever seen a picture of fully loaded MIG 29 taking off from the vikramaditya.
I don't think such a photo exists in public domain. The most I have found is this.
Image
tsarkar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3263
Joined: 08 May 2006 13:44
Location: mumbai

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by tsarkar »

Neela wrote:http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease. ... te]Details of major projects (cost more than Rs. 100 Cr. sanctioned since 1st January, 2014 are given below: Development of Supersonic Missile Assisted Release of Torpedo SMART
[/quote]
Here comes our ASROC. Hope they're reusing BrahMos booster, nose cap & thrusters.

More important point is that we've sonars capable of search, track & designation at long ranges.

Weapons are useless without sensors to cue them to an approximate target location within onboard sensor range.
nirav
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2020
Joined: 31 Aug 2004 00:22
Location: Mumbai

Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Post by nirav »

Wish Tropex was scheduled alongside that paki 34 nation anti piracy thang.

One Brahmos phyrred and all their systems buzzing.
Good way to remind 34 countries and bakis,who's the ocean named after.
Locked