Falling training standards?Rakesh wrote:I am being superstitious, but the Navy appears to be cursed when it comes to submarines. Kilo issues, HDW 209 issues, Scorpene issues, Akula issue and now Arihant issue. What gives?
Sabotage?
Falling training standards?Rakesh wrote:I am being superstitious, but the Navy appears to be cursed when it comes to submarines. Kilo issues, HDW 209 issues, Scorpene issues, Akula issue and now Arihant issue. What gives?
This is distressing. The MCMVs have become the AJT deal of the IN. We lost so many young pilots because the government was inexplicably unable to sign a deal to buy AJTs. I hope to god we do not learn a similarly horrific lesson in the next war because of lack of minesweepers. Not that it would make any difference to the bean counters. It's not their lives at stake.Rakesh wrote:Navy’s minesweeper deal falls through after South Korea talks fail
http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... BNcRN.html
No deal can be signed if the South Koreans want deviation from contract terms. Not possible in a democracy. There will be another tender or we will go on our own. There is no other way.Philip wrote:Scandalous,the casual manner in which the MOD keeps on rejecting deals,time and again.
If a submarine hatch is open to the sea, it stands to reason that it would have a sensor for indication of its status.Kakkaji wrote:Falling training standards?Rakesh wrote:I am being superstitious, but the Navy appears to be cursed when it comes to submarines. Kilo issues, HDW 209 issues, Scorpene issues, Akula issue and now Arihant issue. What gives?
Sabotage?
sounds more like leadership issues to me.Philip wrote:Bad news day.MCM make in India deal again scrapped.Fresh Intl.RFI to be issued and the IN'S Arihant had her plant flooded and was "crippled" when
by human error a valve/ hatch was opened by mistake.Was out of action for months, esp. during the Doklam crisis,still is.Hindu front page report.
MCM reg. Will be speeded up promises MOD/Goa yard.
SSBN flooding much more serious perhaps why ATV-2 launch was delayed and low-key.ATV damage reqd. cutting of piping, etc. in the clean up. This happened 10 months ago!
Some years ago the Viraat almost sank at harbour when the wrong sea-clock was opened by mistake flooding her engine room.The IN in recent years has been hit by a spate of accidents.The two latest involving both our N-subs in a serious matter, reflecting poorly on the IN even as it embarks upon a much needed expansion of the sub fleet and navy in general.
If a deal takes over 10 years to come from RFP to the price negotiation stage, then no manufacturere can keep to the original price.uddu wrote:No deal can be signed if the South Koreans want deviation from contract terms. Not possible in a democracy. There will be another tender or we will go on our own. There is no other way.Philip wrote:Scandalous,the casual manner in which the MOD keeps on rejecting deals,time and again.
Even for screwdrivergiri, the production lines in the home country needs to be operational. There are hundreds of parts and sub-assemblies suppliers that feed the final assembly line. Looking at past license production ToT deals, first two stages involve assembling planes from CKD and SKD in India. So that would mean OEM still needs to have their production suppliers active in the home country for them to manufacture CKDs and SKDs and supply them to an Indian final assembly.Rakesh wrote:Make in India saar for either plane. Basically screwdrivergiri.srai wrote: But will these planes still be in production by the time a decision is made some 10-years later?
...
Why not? Why can;t we open dialogue to just purchase the JSF? 157 is a very large quantity. Get FACO line and use same factory to produce AMCA when ready. Make it at HAL. AMCA will follow our LCA mkX style anyways. FACO line will serve us well and local industry can play a large part.srai wrote:^^^
IMO, the end-target for both 100 IAF SEF and 57 IN fighter is the JSF. They can't directly say they want a particular plane but can put out an RFI (and the lengthy timeline of DPP process - a decade plus) to get the plane they finally want.
If there is a drop of truth to it then why the recent RFI went to Boeing for F-18 and not Lockheed for JSF ?Cybaru wrote:Why not? Why can;t we open dialogue to just purchase the JSF? 157 is a very large quantity. Get FACO line and use same factory to produce AMCA when ready. Make it at HAL. AMCA will follow our LCA mkX style anyways. FACO line will serve us well and local industry can play a large part.srai wrote:^^^
IMO, the end-target for both 100 IAF SEF and 57 IN fighter is the JSF. They can't directly say they want a particular plane but can put out an RFI (and the lengthy timeline of DPP process - a decade plus) to get the plane they finally want.
Okay my own opinion (NO chaiwallahs involved). If we assume that Arihant has been water much longer (5-6 years before inauguration, wouldn't it have been time to refit or do minor maintenance?krishna_krishna wrote: have some chaiwala news, that chindu farticle on arihant is not correct an attempt for navy to divulge something(issue clarification )because they have no clue on what is going on.
Another potential target for the IN to delal with in "real time" the future! This base is v.close to the Indo-Iranian JV port expansion at ChahBahar,which is not an Indian mil. facility at all.WE should also look towards expanding our footprint in friendly nations in the IOR littoral to counter China.IAF-Navy ‘battle it out’ in Arabian Sea as defence minister watches
By Sujan Dutta | Express News Service | Published: 10th January 2018 09:16 AM |
Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman on board INS Vikramaditya | indian navy
NEW DELHI: The enemy came in three waves, the last being close to midnight of Monday-Tuesday.
They came in twos—heavy Sukhoi 30Mki combat aircraft of the IAF took off from Pune’s Lohegaon base to ‘attack’ the Indian Navy’s INS Vikramaditya carrier battle group sailing in the Arabian Sea off Goa from different directions.
The carrier was carrying a precious target: defence minister Nirmala Sitharaman. On INS Vikramaditya, the crew was at action stations. Each wave of the ‘enemy’ was engaged by a counter-wave of the MiG-29K carrier-borne fighters flying in twos.
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Navy capable of defending India against any threat: Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman
The IAF and the Indian Navy were not warring. They were simulating a battle for the defence minister. Sitharaman was the first VIP on board for a day and night at sea, hosted by the Navy. The event is usually a formality but this was something else.
PM Narendra Modi also made his first visit to a military establishment onboard the INS Vikramaditya after assuming office in 2014.
This time the Navy and IAF pulled out the stops to record many firsts: the first time a VIP was hosted at night, the first time she witnessed carrier-borne operations in the dark, the first time INS Kalvari, India’s latest submarine, was part of an exercise. Pictures of the simulated battle were transferred through data links to the command centre of the 44,500-tonne INS Vikramaditya where Sitharaman was explained the operations by Navy Chief Admiral Sunil Lanba, and the chief of the western naval command, Vice Admiral Girish Luthra.
“They were un-alerted air-strikes,” said one navy officer, “and she was watching realtime.” “Back on shore after a memorable and awe-inspiring visit - a day at sea. INS Vikramaditya and other ships of the fleet show the great class they belong to! The nation salutes you. Dedication and professional excellence showcased. Jai Hind.,” the defence minister tweeted on Tuesday afternoon on landing in Goa.
China Plans New Naval Base in Pakistan
BY MAREX 2018-01-08 17:10:47
On Friday, a Chinese defense analyst and a source close to the People's Liberation Army confirmed that China's navy plans to set up a base near the Chinese-built port of Gwadar, Pakistan. It would be China's second overseas base after a recently-built facility in Djibouti.
“China needs to set up another base in Gwadar for its warships because Gwadar is now a civilian port,” said analyst Zhou Chenming, speaking to the South China Morning Post. “The Chinese naval flotilla patrolling in the Gulf of Aden and other warships escorting Chinese oil tankers in the Indian Ocean need a naval base for maintenance as well as logistical supplies because they can’t buy much of what they need in Pakistan."
The news appears to confirm a recent report from a retired American officer regarding negotiations for a new Chinese naval base at Jiwani, a small fishing port on a peninsula west of Gwadar. According to a recent column by Col. Lawrence Sellin (U.S. Army Reserve, ret'd), the agreement would involve upgrades to the port and to a nearby airfield, and would require the creation of a security zone.
When Pakistani officials first proposed the Chinese port project at Gwadar in 2011, they described it explicitly as a forward naval base for Chinese warships. “We have asked our Chinese brothers to please build a naval base at Gwadar,” defense minister Chaudhary Ahmed Mukhtar told the FT at the time. However, in response to the recent reports of similar Chinese plans, Pakistan's government dismissed the news as "propaganda" intended to interfere with Chinese-Pakistani development projects.
“There is no proposal of building any Chinese military base near Gwadar. This is all propaganda against the development of the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) and strengthening of relations between Pakistan and China,” Foreign Office spokesman Mohammad Faisal said.
China's Foreign Ministry has also dismissed previous reports of Chinese ambitions to build a base in Pakistan. Last year, spokesperson Hua Chunying called rumors of a potential naval base at Gwadar "irresponsible remarks" and "hearsay."
China backs Pakistan on anti-terrorism policy
Last week, the Trump administration blocked a $1 billion military assistance package for Islamabad over the continued presence of terrorists on Pakistani soil and Islamabad's allegedly insufficient efforts to remove them. The U.S. State Department asserts that Taliban and Haqqani network fighters are using western Pakistan as a base for their attacks on government forces in Afghanisan, and American officials complain that Pakistan is doing too little to combat them.
China's Foreign Ministry immediately defended Pakistan against these allegations. “We have said many times that Pakistan has put forth great effort and made great sacrifices in combating terrorism. It has made a prominent contribution to global anti-terror efforts, and the international community should fully recognize this,” said spokesperson Geng Shuang at a regular press briefing. "China stands ready to further deepen cooperation with Pakistan in various fields to bring greater benefits to the two peoples."
Analysts expect that as Geng suggests, Pakistan is likely to deepen its ties with China in the wake of the suspension of American aid. China is already providing tens of billions of dollars in assistance for Pakistani infrastructure projects and has worked closely with Islamabad's defense establishment for years. However, cautions columnist Shamil Shams, the absence of American support could come at a price: China will now have greater leverage to set the terms for its development and defense projects within Pakistan.
Singha ji, I’m afraid it is worse than that. For I cannot detect any lack of confidence in a people who can climb to the very top of some of the West’s most iconic firms. Why is the desi CEO so successful, so confident of his or her ability in the gora environment? Even in midst of western prejudice over skin color and ethnicity?we have lost confidence in ourselves and the ability to take risks. everyone wants a readymade solution. none including the govt are willing to fund 5 projects of which only 1 might be a good success and 4 end up unused or fail.
minesweepers are very special ships. They do very dangerous work that needs to be done in keeping harbours and harbour entrances clear of a variety of sophisticated mines that can be laid by enemy subs.Singha wrote:how come south korea with no great nautical credentials other than churning out merchant ships is able to offer exportable minesweepers and we cannot build our own.
all they ever had were american hand me downs just as we started off with UK hand me downs.
if anything this exposes the intellectual bankruptcy of the country with people abandoning traditional streams of pure science and engineering in favour of either foreign shores or ITvity every darn thing from a suspension bridge, to a tunnel to a harbour tug needs a foreign consultant to either provide the design or vet something or provide some missing piece of technology
we have lost confidence in ourselves and the ability to take risks. everyone wants a readymade solution. none including the govt are willing to fund 5 projects of which only 1 might be a good success and 4 end up unused or fail.
how many of our young naval architects from IIT kgp head for naval architecture and how many to the nearest IIM or US consulate ?
our cupboard is bare and our lack of internal abilities vs cheen's technology base is getting brutally exposed and the gap is increasing year by year not decreasing. fig leaves of less money does not cover up the lack of meat in the undies.
i go to campus interviews where i talk to candidates all in the top 300 of GATE and forget any manufacturing or traditional engineering, all they want to get in on is the application sw side of ITvity because thats where the big money and glamour is. maybe 1 out of 20 is doing something low level in the HW that too by glueing together open src from x y z and writing up a buzzword laden report. basic programming skills are lacking due to easy sugar of pulling solns off the net now, a luxury which older gen did not have. they talk up a good game but does not stand up to even benign scrutiny.
if anything our engg brats are getting worse not better.
Naval architects probably have to jump to IT once they land in US and wait in GC line for ever . I doubt jobs in Naval engineering would be easy to find in US since currently almost exclusively most naval industrial activity in US is focussed on defence...probably worse than Aerospace.Singha wrote: how many of our young naval architects from IIT kgp head for naval architecture and how many to the nearest IIM or US consulate ?
Some truth here. That's what happened for a long time with the Indian cricket team—gora coaches. Why? because nobody wanted to argue with the gora and they all wanted to make sure no Indian got that job. Sort of an 'all chiefs and no Indians'.chola wrote:....
Now with a gora JV or gora consultant, I am protected from the clutches of these other desis.
I know in my heart, I am just as good as this gora but I am not better than the machination of my fellow desis. The gora lends an air of decency and safety from my own kind.
The approval for the submarine base had been awaited since 2010. Now, Phase II of Project Varsha gets 676 hectares of forest land while Phase I work is in full swing.
Except in the National Team’s case everyone IS an Indian save for the chief! lolCosmo_R wrote: Some truth here. That's what happened for a long time with the Indian cricket team—gora coaches. Why? because nobody wanted to argue with the gora and they all wanted to make sure no Indian got that job. Sort of an 'all chiefs and no Indians'.
I doubt the Defense Industry jobs which involve building Aircrafts/Ships/Land systems or its parts would be open to anyone who is not a US citizen.Even IT Vity jobs in the Lockheed Martins and Northrops of the world requires Citizens with TSC (top secret clearance) . There are other low level jobs which do not require TSC but public trust clearance.Zynda wrote:Naval architects probably have to jump to IT once they land in US and wait in GC line for ever . I doubt jobs in Naval engineering would be easy to find in US since currently almost exclusively most naval industrial activity in US is focussed on defence...probably worse than Aerospace.Singha wrote: how many of our young naval architects from IIT kgp head for naval architecture and how many to the nearest IIM or US consulate ?
Sorry for OT.
From the news link:Indranil wrote:India’s nuclear submarine base gets a big boost—thanks to Narendra Modi govt
The approval for the submarine base had been awaited since 2010. Now, Phase II of Project Varsha gets 676 hectares of forest land while Phase I work is in full swing.
What the heck is wrong with us? Is Environment more important or the Nation's Security? Its not as if a little laxity towards environment is going to end this world. The Environment mafia is becoming uncontrollable. This needs to stop.The DRDO, which is tasked with creating infrastructure for strategic forces, had in the past found great difficulty in acquiring land for critical projects needed to store, service and manufacture equipment for nuclear assets like missiles and warheads.
Most often, what you are paying for and looking at the leadership for is to set the right culture. This is intangible. The coach or director isn't there to tell you how to hold the bat or spin the ball. He/she is there to bring in accountability, responsibility, a winning attitude and an enabling environment for people to do their best. And often, such a person is best brought in from the outside when the problem you have is a negative culture and internal politicking.Cosmo_R wrote:Some truth here. That's what happened for a long time with the Indian cricket team—gora coaches. Why? because nobody wanted to argue with the gora and they all wanted to make sure no Indian got that job. Sort of an 'all chiefs and no Indians'.chola wrote:....
Now with a gora JV or gora consultant, I am protected from the clutches of these other desis.
I know in my heart, I am just as good as this gora but I am not better than the machination of my fellow desis. The gora lends an air of decency and safety from my own kind.
"What has been cancelled is the consultant's role. A particular consultant's tender was not as per rules and regulations, so they are re-floating it. What is big in that," he wondered. "The exercise carried out by Goa Shipyard could not be completed because of certain terms and conditions set by the Korean company, which were beyond the scope of the tender. "So what do you expect? There has to be retendering. So they have ordered retendering. Now, this has nothing to do with the order," he maintained. Parrikar said that a delay of six months to one year in a long-tenured contract was absorbable and therefore not a cause for concern. "It can be minimal. These are projects for eight years, ten years. So they can absorb the delay. A six-month delay can be absorbed. In an 8-10 year contract or a 12-year contract, you can absorb one year (delay). Percentage-wise, it is not very big," he said.