Understanding US thread-III

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby ricky_v » 18 Jan 2017 20:43

http://nationalinterest.org/feature/the-real-thucydides-trap-will-red-blue-america-go-war-19063
posting in full
In the aftermath of the 2016 elections, an intense and widening divide resurfaced among Americans. While initial fissures in U.S. society revealed themselves over twenty years ago, the split increased into culturally distinct and regionally localized areas during that time. Today, the rift is generally peaceful and manifests itself in words and demonstrations. However, it resides along significant geographic, economic and ideological lines that may not withstand future stress and pressure.

Such an internal division is not a unique circumstance. In fact, ancient Greek history provides us a fitting analogy for reflection. Senior military leaders and historians study The Peloponnesian War, written by the Athenian historian Thucydides, as a footnote for strategic thought in foreign affairs. However, that war was chiefly about internal conflict in Greek society. Today, Thucydides’ relevance to America’s domestic political landscape is minimal under an assumption the United States is a unified society. Clearly, the 2016 elections and reactions give cause to question the strength and depth of our society’s unity. That and other similarities warrant a review of the context and causes of the Peloponnesian War, if only as an analogy, for consideration.

The thirty-year-long Peloponnesian War did not start overnight. Greek casus belli intensified gradually over a fifty-year span as selfish agendas became acceptable through the slow creep of greed, pride and suspicion. Ironically, the very peace Athenians and Spartans secured against Persia enabled the widening of attitudes. Tragically, Greek divergence metastasized into open conflict and, ultimately, mutual ruin.


Why? A key message of Thucydidean history is that without mutual effort for unity, a people of common heritage but different perspectives will develop oppositional interests over time. This was the case with Athens and Sparta and is occurring in “blue” and “red” segments of America’s populace.

From a geographical perspective, America’s socio-political affiliations coalesce in distinctive regions such as urban areas next to oceans and rural heartlands. While geography does not predetermine societal destiny, it is a feature that influences its culture and end results. Although separated by era and ocean, the geographic and societal disposition of today’s “blue” and “red” American states have stark similarities to that of Athens and Sparta.

As example, in 450 BC, Athens resided within a great walled city with access to the Aegean Sea. Facing seaward, it used its powerful navy to spur trade and enlarge its influence abroad bringing it into cooperation with other cultures. Similar to America’s “blue” populations on the Pacific and northeastern Atlantic coasts and in major metropolitan centers, Athens was mercantile, inclusive, cosmopolitan and urbane. As with Athens, “blue” populations view themselves as exemplars and vanguards for Western civilization’s progress at home and abroad.

Athens’ rival was Sparta, principally an agrarian society husbanded within the countryside and without continual contact with overseas cultures. Sparta maintained a formidable army and militant ethos to protect its land’s resources against enemies. Comparably, “red” states dominate the American heartland where its populations view foreigners with skepticism and espouse greater comfort with the Second Amendment. Sparta subjugated a Helot slave population allowing only native Spartiates to govern. Regrettably, a similar legacy still exists in “red” southern states. Rustic, trusting religious oracles, and zealous when threatened, Sparta and “red” states regard tradition and military might as touchstones to national prestige.

For Athens and Sparta, as in “blue” and “red” states, their way of life and worldview were justified and noble; it served them well in the face of challenges and became an indelible aspect of their identity. However, then as now, time and distance have widened attitudinal fissures where former mutual respect devolved into disdain and distrust. As these differences in cultural outlooks exist today, then how, and why, did Athens and Sparta resort to war? More importantly, what should we learn from it? First, Thucydides identified fear, honor and interest as the roots of conflict. He knew each element had an escalatory effect with capacity to energize people to resist threats, real or perceived. Should an agenda be compromised, the sense of honor degrades. Once a people’s concept of honor of is threatened, collective fear rises to protect the societal framework. Fear, for personal safety or for traditional integrity, turns neighbors into “them” and fellow citizens into challengers. During the 2016 election and the weeks after its results, the continuing discourse among both sides of American society remains especially intense, divisive, and at times, despondent; a sign that the distance between interest, honor and fear are worryingly compressed.

Second, gaining and using a position of advantage over a rival will heighten interests and change a cooperative relationship into a more intense competition. After the 2008 elections, “blue” populations wielded the political leverage they gained and levied wholesale socio-ideological changes upon “red” areas akin to a modern Melian Dialogue where “the strong did what they could and weak suffered what they must.” “Blue” imposition of federal social agendas, boycotting of businesses and repudiation of contrary sentiments upended “red’s” traditional notions of self, its societal codes and faith in representative government. These actions and the effects of the 2008 economic recession exacerbated “red” fear and its reaction to support a presidential candidate who championed their specific grievances. In ancient Greece, Athens’ rivals reciprocated their unyielding forcefulness when fortunes reversed, raising the stakes for both contestants. Today, “red” and “blue” populations share these perspectives as both recent victor and vanquished.

Do these similar characteristic necessarily portend to war? Today, the thought of armed conflict between “red” and “blue” states is an implausible scenario. Thucydides, however, warns us to not discount the possibility entirely. Civil wars have their own specific origins, contexts and contributing factors. However, multiple variables—the diminishment of an external threat, the passage of time, changing economic fortunes and a nation with non-homogeneous cultures—provide a perspective.

Athens and Sparta maintained fifty years of peace between the defeat of Persian conquest and the start of the Peloponnesian War. For the United States, forty-nine years passed between the War of 1812 and America’s Civil War. In both examples, all four above-mentioned attributes existed. Additionally, a rational political decision by one side altered a tenuous balance of power, serving as a flashpoint for conflict. In ancient Greece, it was Athens’ alliance with Corcyra. For the United States, it was the determination to abolish slavery.

Certainly, half a century without foreign menace is not the singular yardstick to measure the beginning of a domestic war. It is conceivable, however, that in the span of two generations within a disparate society without a common threat to bind them, the raison d'etre for unity through collective security fades allowing internal energy to focus on the advancement of factional agendas.

As we approach the transition of the presidential administrations, twenty-five years will have passed since the Soviet Union’s dissolution on 25 December 1991. Coincidentally, today’s bifurcated regional political allegiance took shape after the Cold War’s end in the following 1992 presidential election. Within the passing of a single generation, the lines between America’s “blue” and “red” states grew more and more geographically distinct and culturally inflexible. A dynamic characterized by “blue” projecting its aspirations in the newly triumphant liberal world order as “red” areas became withdrawn and marginalized by the encroachment of foreign and non-traditional influences. Will the current divergent trajectory of “blue” and “red” continue through another generation? If so, which issue from the wide array of current and emergent challenges may be the pivotal decision for a domestic flashpoint?

In recent memory, exploring the nexus of regional grievances, cultural separation, political power and their consequences is an indulgent perspective America chooses when looking abroad. But, perhaps Thucydides’ perspective can provide us opportunity and encouragement to analyze America’s causes of strife, understand our domestic differences and close the socio-political gaps in our society. Thucydides, unfortunately, offered no solution to avoid conflict in future Athenian-Spartan parallels. He only recorded the harmful trajectory where societal divergence led Athens and Sparta to conflict. However, history is not prophecy and it serves only to illuminate a path, through analogy, for more current and dark times. This is precisely why our Founding Fathers read and regarded Thucydides’ writings. The Peloponnesian War served them an authoritative guide to better understand society and its tendencies in order to better navigate the perils of democratic governance in a new nation. With the assistance of history, will we be wise enough again to use it to shed light on our future?
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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby TSJones » 18 Jan 2017 21:27

^^^^
completely ignores the hollowing out of the rust belt and the great plains states.

immense tidal illegal immigration

criminal activity by a minority group that is overwhelming compared to their proportion of the population. commit 50% of gun deaths and they are only 13% of the population. black on white rape in huge numbers while white on black rape is almost zero.

importing of muslim terrorists.

etc. etc, etc,,,,,,,,,,

I didn't vote for trump. he is an intemperate rich guy.

I didn't vote for hillary......

*democracy failed me* hopefully, it won't next time around.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Singha » 18 Jan 2017 21:39

the comments below the article are a good read too.

the so called blue states are blue only in sense of the metro areas - the rural areas are mostly always red.

as someone wrote in the comments, the red zone controls pretty much all resources - road networks, water, crops, oil, minerals, wood, boneyards, ARSENALS, weapons plants and can drive a pretty hard bargain should the state govts bargain together as a bloc vs the decadent coastal elites

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby LokeshC » 18 Jan 2017 22:17

^^^ Indeed. Cali for example is solid red outside the coastal metros.

That article was very important, as it also provides an understanding of what might have happened to unkil if there was no Enemy #1 (roooooosiaaaaa) so "unify" it.

Now they are trying to find some enemy #1 to "unify", not sure who that would be. Russia ain't working, ppl are seeing through that one.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Singha » 18 Jan 2017 22:28

perhaps the pacific pivot and DTs promise to get tough with cheen .... hard to demonize a country who you trade with so much though.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Falijee » 18 Jan 2017 23:19

Here’s why Donald Trump is already planning his FUNERAL

HE’S SET to become the 45th President of the United States of America when he takes office this Friday.But Donald Trump, 70, has a pretty grim task to complete when he steps into the White House: planning his own funeral.
Bradley Blakeman, who was Former President George W. Bush’s deputy assistant, said ceremony details need to be finalised early on in case anything happens during their tenure.Due to the "controversy" surrounding his assumption of this Office, this task becomes more urgent for him !

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Lalmohan » 18 Jan 2017 23:27

The DT pivot has been clearly signalled - demonize China and make friends with Russia and in the process possibly break the Mid East oil dependency (and replace it with a Russian dependency). this might drive China and Saudi closer...

the outlook for Europe is bleak - less interest from Unkil and more growling from the Bear
the outlook for China is interesting - they are already making moves to becoming the champion of free trade and open markets... that from a communist party led authoritarian government...

Emperor Xi making some interesting noises in Davos

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Dipanker » 19 Jan 2017 00:55

Yes, the contrast is remarkable. The biggest communist nation is espousing the virtue of free trade and open markets at Davos, while the flag bearer nation of capitalism and free trade is talking about limiting free trade by imposing heavy tariffs and building walls figuratively and literally. We do live in interesting times indeed!

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Dipanker » 19 Jan 2017 01:13

Singha wrote:the comments below the article are a good read too.

the so called blue states are blue only in sense of the metro areas - the rural areas are mostly always red.

as someone wrote in the comments, the red zone controls pretty much all resources - road networks, water, crops, oil, minerals, wood, boneyards, ARSENALS, weapons plants and can drive a pretty hard bargain should the state govts bargain together as a bloc vs the decadent coastal elites


The important fact the red state republicans like to gloss over is that population of the nation is concentrated in the coastal and urban areas.

80% of the population lives in urban area.

80% of the population lives either directly in the coastal counties (40%) or within 60 miles of coast (another 40%).

So if the Metro/Coastal areas are blue, there is a reason for that, most people live there!

Population density of the vast hinterland where most of the red states are located, is miniscule.

The red states live off the tax contribution of blue states, i.e. they take in far more than they contribute to the federal govt.
Last edited by Dipanker on 19 Jan 2017 01:55, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby ramana » 19 Jan 2017 01:48

TSJ, Did you see "La La Land" the movie? What accounts for its popularity?

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby ramana » 19 Jan 2017 02:40

One comment I heard from a former US Army veteran about the state of handling classified materials is this:

A private is sentenced to 35 years and serves 7 years of it and gets sentence commutated after serving five more months while a General is pardoned even before he gets to serve his sentence.

Something to think about for the other ranks.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby UlanBatori » 19 Jan 2017 02:54

Happy Days are Here Again. EPA Nominee's Hearing
Phosphorus makes water glow.
Global warmin' just ain't so!

:rotfl:
Listen to the Hon. Senators try to put a coherent question or even a sentence together. :eek:
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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby UlanBatori » 19 Jan 2017 02:56

ramana wrote:One comment I heard from a former US Army veteran about the state of handling classified materials is this:
A private is sentenced to 35 years and serves 7 years of it and gets sentence commutated after serving five more months while a General is pardoned even before he gets to serve his sentence.
Something to think about for the other ranks.

And the SoS not only does not get indicted, the FBI director is summoned b4 COTUS instead.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Falijee » 19 Jan 2017 04:44

D.T. To Keep On Using Twitter As "Insurance " ; "Dishonest Media" To Be Excluding From Press Briefing :roll:

U.S. President-elect Donald Trump plans to select the media representatives who are given access to the presidential press briefing room, but will not move the room out of the White House, he said in interview with Fox News broadcast on Wednesday.Trump, whose election campaign was punctuated by a stream of Twitter messages, also said he plans to keep tweeting when he takes office on Friday."Look, I don't like tweeting. I have other things I could be doing. But I get very dishonest media, very dishonest press. And it's my only way that I can counteract," said the Republican president-elect.


See- Ann- Ann to be In or Out ?

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby UlanBatori » 19 Jan 2017 04:51

See Ann Ann will come crawling with a Happy Face. Access to the WHOTUS is huge in terms of Nielsen Ratings. Standing outside and :(( does not even come close.

Pro-DT reporters will trample over the present pompous entities in the usual stampede with the usual spine to Stand Up For Journalistic Integrity And Courage. The prize is a $10M/yr AnchorHead job.

What DT is doing is a 2017 version of what Ronald Reagan did in 1981. Result was that ABC's Sam Donaldson shot up to fame as The POTUS' Favorite Reporter. Whenever Reagan was asked something that he did not want to answer (which was most of the time) he would turn with a kind smile and say:

"Sam?" and Sam would toss up a gentle overpitched delivery for Reagan to hit into the stands. It was ABSOLUTELY blatant.

The famous quote of the time was:
Sam Donalson and his wife are in love with the same man.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby komal » 19 Jan 2017 04:53

Falijee wrote:D.T. To Keep On Using Twitter As "Insurance " ; "Dishonest Media" To Be Excluding From Press Briefing :roll:

U.S. President-elect Donald Trump plans to select the media representatives who are given access to the presidential press briefing room, but will not move the room out of the White House, he said in interview with Fox News broadcast on Wednesday.Trump, whose election campaign was punctuated by a stream of Twitter messages, also said he plans to keep tweeting when he takes office on Friday."Look, I don't like tweeting. I have other things I could be doing. But I get very dishonest media, very dishonest press. And it's my only way that I can counteract," said the Republican president-elect.


See- Ann- Ann to be In or Out ?


Probably awaiting from instructions from Moscow on who to include/exclude.

A President terrified of CNN and MSNBC! He should add to busts of Nehru and Mamata, busts of Madam G and Vidyan Charan Shukla.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby TSJones » 19 Jan 2017 05:04

ramana wrote:TSJ, Did you see "La La Land" the movie? What accounts for its popularity?


I have not seen it, so I read the plot on wiki.

it easy to see why it is a winner in hollywood just from the story line.

the woman is an aspiring actress. she didn't let a relationship get in the way of achieving success. plus her paramour tol her to follow her dreams.

she marries someone else.

her former paramour now a successful nightclub owner and jazz pianist sees her and they have a dream sequewnce of what might have been. both are happy with that.

I want to puke.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby ramana » 19 Jan 2017 05:10

The key is the yearning for American Jazz and make It great again.
And the actress to do whatever it takes to get to the top.
Audience is left very clear who is the winner.
Both themes were reflected last year.

---
Spent $30M and made so far ~$170M!!!

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby UlanBatori » 19 Jan 2017 05:14

Rep. Tulsi Gabbard introduces Bill to Stop Arming Terrorists. She has some guts!!

Consider this and you see why the oiseules such as culinary institute and free biscuits directors and enn ess ays and jarnails all need to be fired by the new POTUS. Genocidal Traitors to the US Constitution, all of them.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby UlanBatori » 19 Jan 2017 07:28

HHS Nominee Tom Price and Insider Trading?

CNN reported on Monday that financial disclosures show Price invested in a medical device manufacturer days before introducing a bill that would benefit that company. Democrats including Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer have called for an investigation into whether Price may have violated the law. Price has said the stocks were purchased through a broker and that he did not know which stocks he owned.


JFYI, Rep. John Lewis the Inauguration-Boycotter is the Rep from the 5th COTUS District. Demo.
Tam Price is Rep from the 6th District, the one previously repped by Newt Gingrich. Totally Red. The KKK would be dissed as Liberal Commie Pinkos in the 6th Dt. Price is a physician by training, a politican oiseule by choice.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Yagnasri » 19 Jan 2017 09:28

This is what happens when a community organising Harvard law graduate meets a KGB colonel with a Judo black belt. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

So once again Putin is lying when he say Russian pros are the best. What a liar. It proves how evil he is. :rotfl:

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Singha » 19 Jan 2017 10:20

80% of amrikan population might live in 100 miles of the coast but as this partial map shows, except for the big cities, the semi urban and rural areas are mostly red even in the coastal states ... ie there is no 100 mile wide blue strip to brag about. I can see virginia, NJ, long island and maine having red areas right on the coast even if we ignore the "south" and why should we - the south coast is heavily populated and plenty red

so the reds not only dominate the hinterland but a good chunk of the coast as well incl the coasts of the great lakes - all the better since areas like virginia norfolk base has enough ships to crater half the world and kings bay georgia and bangor maine are SSBN bases.

instead of throwing their weight on the thinly populated interior red states, the Les Blues will have a fight on their hands just to defend their "sanctuary cities" like chicago, nyc, boston, SFO and "sanctuary univ campuses" from disadvantaged reds people in the countryside :lol:

blue fans are living in a dream white collar world and divorced from the hardships of the mango people outside the mcmansion/suburbia/downtown/tech park/chichi school loop. the grinding anger of a slow decline in std of living and job benefits, flight of manufacturing and denial of economic mobility across generations is a breakage of the contract between state and people. people will rally around a cause when they have jobs and food and a stake in the status quo.....when that is withering they will vote for DT types who promise a reset.

Image

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Yagnasri » 19 Jan 2017 10:57

So people with better living conditions in cities voted Dem and poor and disadvantaged areas of the nation voted for GOP. Ironic.

CNN reporter shouting at DT made me remember one movie wherein Morgan Freeman who acts as the US President says to a lady reporter - "You and may seem standing here as equal that this is what it is. We seem to be equal." or something to that effect.

CNN fellows now think that they are equal to DT or even better than a president-elect of the US.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Lalmohan » 19 Jan 2017 14:41

the job of the press is to challenge both the government and the opposition to ensure that they are doing the right thing
of course in the current set up - neither the government nor the opposition nor the press are actually too bothered about the people...

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Yagnasri » 19 Jan 2017 14:50

As per the news report, Tulsi has secretly gone to Syria and even met with Assad. The establishment will make sure that there will be a huge cost to her now.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Lalmohan » 19 Jan 2017 14:55

personally I'd like to understand how assad went from being the good boy to becoming the bad boy...

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Yagnasri » 19 Jan 2017 15:24

Some say Saudis and HC wanted to have a pipeline to EU nations. Some ways HC had an inspirational thought. Seriously, there is no logic colour revolutions idea of US neocons. Since they could not do it in Syria they tried arming ISIS and Al Khaida.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Lalmohan » 19 Jan 2017 15:49

actually its more complicated
you have to factor in the Sunni's under Siege mentality in Riyadh/Ankara
and the return of the Persian empire
and the restoration of izzat-e-Roos
geopolitics is fun! right kids?

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby darshhan » 19 Jan 2017 15:58

Singha wrote:the comments below the article are a good read too.

the so called blue states are blue only in sense of the metro areas - the rural areas are mostly always red.

as someone wrote in the comments, the red zone controls pretty much all resources - road networks, water, crops, oil, minerals, wood, boneyards, ARSENALS, weapons plants and can drive a pretty hard bargain should the state govts bargain together as a bloc vs the decadent coastal elites


And the rifles. Dems and liberals better learn swimming as they will have to dive in atlantic and pacific oceans in the next American civil war which is coming soon.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Singha » 19 Jan 2017 16:06

in the end, a continent sized country , with wide economic disparities and social splits even among the mainstream core whites will surely have major disagreements ... one was the old civil war, another was the civil rights movements and jim crow laws, currently one is LGBT and abortion, the role of media in society (report vs influence vs fakenews) , role of america in world security structures , race relations, law enforcement and another is globalisation of economic activity.

remains to be seen who prevails or a centrist balancer of the force emerges.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Yagnasri » 19 Jan 2017 16:43

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/19/opin ... right.html

Kerry can not stop saying about 140 bits. :mrgreen: No mention of Colour dramas, Libia, South China sea, NK's nuke testings.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Lalmohan » 19 Jan 2017 17:02

darshan - I think you are being too bleak. despite all the gun carrying bible thumping loonies in the US (some of whom also burn crosses) - the core of US society is generally a good thing and there is a long way to go before that becomes unstable to the point of disintegration. there are issues that need to be addressed - inequality probably being the foremost, but I have faith in the American model. DT is an aberration and has encouraged a lurch towards instability - he too shall pass (on to other things)

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby ramana » 19 Jan 2017 20:35

Yagnasri wrote:As per the news report, Tulsi has secretly gone to Syria and even met with Assad. The establishment will make sure that there will be a huge cost to her now.


She is the Hindu that Obama was talking about.

So fat chance of any recriminations.
Also she is a combat veteran.
Not a POW.
Nor one who started fires on own aircraft fires by panicking.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Yagnasri » 19 Jan 2017 20:51

She has great future. No doubt about that. But need to survive Neocons first. She has some clear views on Syria. I have seen her interview on youtube about this issue. She is also one of the people who took on the HC gang during the Dem Primaries. So a lot of good things and a lot of opponents in the establishment.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Singha » 19 Jan 2017 21:15

Its been building up for sometime...but usa is no longer a 2party state....its more a collection of two gangs of political warlords and associated media and business cabals and donaldji with his own gang

The blacks and latinos and rural whites will likely form their own specialized bsp sp and aiudf type parties with firebrand owaisi and madani type kabila leaders

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby darshhan » 19 Jan 2017 21:27

Lalmohan wrote:darshan - I think you are being too bleak. despite all the gun carrying bible thumping loonies in the US (some of whom also burn crosses) - the core of US society is generally a good thing and there is a long way to go before that becomes unstable to the point of disintegration. there are issues that need to be addressed - inequality probably being the foremost, but I have faith in the American model. DT is an aberration and has encouraged a lurch towards instability - he too shall pass (on to other things)


Lm, Why would either be bleak or optimistic ? I dont stay in US. I am hardly effected by the events there. Ofcourse decline of US would be good for rest of the world. Having said that I am actually being objective. The core that you are talking about is only as good as the character of the citizens. Which is now corrupted and consumed by Greed and hatred among other things. Now when an Indian guy migrates to US, he is all taken back by first world infrastructure and fancy cars. But more often than not he is unable to comprehend the rot and dysfunction that has set into the American society. Not to mention the hate that people feel for each other. But someone whose family has been present in America for generations will attest to America's decline and increasing civil unrest. The foundation of the American society is weak.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Yagnasri » 19 Jan 2017 22:06

Senate Minority leader is live on Tv now. From what I have seen so far, Dems are looking to drag the nominations now.

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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Singha » 19 Jan 2017 22:08

I would say deeper the cracks more the emergence of new factions and kabila leaders and irrelevance of the 2party system as big tents with seats for everyone.

This we have seen in this cycle...both parties insiders stand discredited

Msm stands exposed and breitbart types moved from fringe to mainstream

Lalmohan
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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Lalmohan » 19 Jan 2017 22:09

Nikki Haley opposes Trump's views on Russia at confirmation hearing

“I’m hopeful we can get him to see it the way we see it,” she told the Senate committee. In reply to a question on whether she had talked about Russia with Trump, she replied: “Yes, it came up, but only that we were going to have issues with Russia.

“I look forward to communicating to him how I feel,” she added. “That’s how an administration works – you surround yourself with people who don’t just say ‘yes’ to what you think.”

Haley was also more forthright than Tillerson in her condemnation of summary executions of drug crimes suspects by the Philippines government of President Rodrigo Duterte, who claims to have Trump’s support. At his own hearing, Tillerson seemed uninformed about the killings.

Singha
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Re: Understanding US thread-III

Postby Singha » 20 Jan 2017 07:43

Leith Abou Fadel ‏@leithfadel 8h8 hours ago
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Visiting Assad makes you an "Assadist" but accepting millions from Gulf monarchies makes you a president elect in America


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