Note the word etc in client list when product is Ichkluisive my lord"All talk,little else" he said. He manufactures world-beating products sold exclusively in to the US,EU,etc
How much money has India spent on GTRE?Philip wrote:JWith the GTRE's abysmal performance over decades and so much moolah too gone down the drain,
Thanks for that link Austin. Nice pics. There are lots more nice pics on that site -
Those are good points shiv. Most of these aircraft will be flying at and above cruising altitude in this case. Which will still allow it to see deep and wide. Some shadows maybe there, but by and large, they should be able to get a first look onto the other side.shiv wrote:Somehow the NATO argument does not seem to work for nuclear weapons - which they both own, ignoring the same NATO fact. They need those extra AWACS for US style NATO surveillance over distant oceans - not across their borders.k prasad wrote:
UK and France usually will operate within NATO ambits, so they have US AWACS already. In many ways, we should count the US AWACS fleet withinthe UK/France force numbers, for most of their operations. When they have unkil ka lamborghini to play with, Why pay for their own? Also, in terms of area to protect, they have almost no threats like the ones we face (IOR + Western Border + North + East).
Tibet is, on average at 12-14000 feet, and the Himalayas tower over Tibet at 18-22,000 feet. An AWACS flying in India would be completely blind to aircraft flying in the shadow of mountains that tower 1.5-2 km higher than the plateau. The populated areas of Tibet (South Tibet) fall in the shadow region even for an AWACS flying at 30,000 feet - it would have to cross the Himalayas to see what is happening in the areas that are hidden behind the mountains.k prasad wrote: 3) Another point about high altitude operation - Imagine what that does for your Line of Sight - at 5000 m *above ground*, LoS is 250 km. At 10,000 m, that increases to 357 km. But now, Imagine if your aerostat is above to tether only 2000 m above a 3000 m high base - LoS is now only 160 km. Barely useful for early detection of air targets flying nape-of-the-ground, or within valleys. So depth of coverage is vastly inferior to AWACS.
Nap of earth invading aircraft would be nap of earth at 14000 feet inside Tibet. To come to India they would have to rise to about 25000 feet and be seen against clear sky by ground based radars
Phillip Sir, I have been there done that, in some sense. Have dealt personally with govt organisations. I have decent idea about the system. To be able to succeed in Indian Defence sector, one needs infinite patience. Even heavyweights like Tatas who would simply pull some strings elsewhere and get things done are struggling here.Philip wrote:JayS,the DRDO engaged a co. whose MD is a close pal,to develop blisks.He allegedly obtained some paltry funding,the major fin. input from his own resources.He developed them,but since then has got no orders from the DRDO and becos of its funding cannot do a thing about it,like selling the tech/product abroad! This was a few years ago.He curses the day he ever got involved with the DRDO. I know another highly respected gent who owns a major group,who also is fed up with the DRDO after decades of supplying them/developing for them certain products.
"All talk,little else" he said. He manufactures world-beating products sold exclusively in to the US,EU,etc.Some of these may have even found their way back into the country in some key systems that we import.
My assessment is that for both these entities/products,there is a vested interest in them NOT succeeding! We are simply forced to import engines for all types,as well as engines for another key system,of which we're buying hundreds for all 3 services. This is the difficulty that pvt. idustry has,dealing with the DRDO/Babudom.Lucrative turfs of the DPSUs must not be disturbed. With the GTRE's abysmal performance over decades and so much moolah too gone down the drain,has anyone ever asked why there has been no inquiry into its shoddy performance and re-organisation of its management?
Like the non-performing NLCA,we'll always be churning out "tech-demonstrators"! Useful for science museums,but not for the armed forces.
Don't worry - Bangalore will reach the airport in a few years..Austin wrote:Though my first visit to Banagalore City and Airshow via Flight previous two visits to the Show is when I traveled via Railways.
Just a noob question , Who came with the Idea of building Campa Gowda Airport so far from the city at such God Foresaken place that it take atleast 1.5 hour to reach it in non-traffic condition ?
Some of us are banking on that!shiv wrote:Don't worry - Bangalore will reach the airport in a few years..Austin wrote:Though my first visit to Banagalore City and Airshow via Flight previous two visits to the Show is when I traveled via Railways.
Just a noob question , Who came with the Idea of building Campa Gowda Airport so far from the city at such God Foresaken place that it take atleast 1.5 hour to reach it in non-traffic condition ?
This year they did have a combined news conf at AI -17. Guess they are heading in that (combined) direction.shiv wrote:Aero India was not dull when it came to promoting Indian made stuff. People who were looking to make insane profits selling imported maal did not do deals. Regarding a comment made by someone that airlines like Indigo who signed a 200 aircraft deal in Farnborough or Paris should have used Aero India - I agree in general with that comment - but unfortunately the civil aviation sector has a different and even more low key airshow in Hyderabad. Farnborough and Pairs are combined military and civil.
From my observation many visitors are not just people who bought tickets for business days or people associated with Stalls in Business areas and Armed Forces Personal including PSU but a significant crowd are also of those Free Pass ( Relatives/Friends/Unkle/Aunt who gets these passes from PSU/Armed forces personal ) , My observation is they also form a significant part of the visitors.Marten wrote:Some of us are banking on that!shiv wrote: Don't worry - Bangalore will reach the airport in a few years..
For Aero India 2023, we will have direct metro connectivity that can accomodate 72*6 passengers on each train. Eventually, all 6-8 lac visitors will reach the show in time for the last flight display.
Airlines are encouraged to sign off the deals at big airshows like Franborough or Paris as how big/ranking of these shows depends on the commercial value of deals signed at these airshow.NRao wrote:shiv wrote:Aero India was not dull when it came to promoting Indian made stuff. People who were looking to make insane profits selling imported maal did not do deals. Regarding a comment made by someone that airlines like Indigo who signed a 200 aircraft deal in Farnborough or Paris should have used Aero India - I agree in general with that comment - but unfortunately the civil aviation sector has a different and even more low key airshow in Hyderabad. Farnborough and Pairs are combined military and civil.
This SAR was presented at IRSI-2015 as well. At the time, they had a 1m resolution Stripmap mode tested, and were developing a higher-resolution spotmap mode as well. They got some pretty decent imagery with it. Had a very interesting conversation at that time with the head of that program about their algorithms and future devs (can't remember/divulge details).Nick_S wrote:Vijainder K Thakur@vkthakur 6h6 hours ago
LRDE developed Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) for surveillance, reconnaissance & precision targeting on display at #AeroIndia2017
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Is this the one they made for N-ALH?
Key takeaways from the press interaction held by the HAL on the sidelines of the Aero India 2017.
BUILDING SUKHOI 30 MKI IN INDIA: We've produced 183 against order of 222 planes. By 2020 we will complete it. Our current capacity is to build 12 aircraft per year
LCA TEJAS: Three aircraft given to IAF and the squadron has been operationalised. Plan is to complete 40 Mk 1 LCA by 2019-20.
LCA TEJAS MARK 1A: IAF has approved 83 aircraft in this configuration with enhanced outsourcing for private sector. From eight aircraft a year, we will build 16 by investing in a second line which is being built at a cost of Rs 1000 cr (50 per cent from HAL, 25 per cent from IAF & 25 per cent from Indian Navy). LCA Mark 1A development with maintenance ease, refueling, AESA and SPJ will make it Mark 1A and we have released request for quotations for AESA. Trials to be done by 2018 and LCA MARK 1A from 2018 and will build 83 in numbers at least for now. LCA MARK 1A is GE 404 and we are looking at KAVERI and exploring possibility of reviving it. GTRE is putting the efforts. By March 2017 we will know the progress.
ADVANCED LIGHT HELICOPTER: Of the 159 wanted, 136 delivered and all will be done by 2017-18. Additional order for 73 concluded. The contract will be signed within a few days for our armed services
LIGHT COMBAT HELICOPTER: LCH has done 850 flights and basic configuration has been frozen. Limited Series Production cleared (10 to IAF and 5 to Army). It is the only combat chopper which can operate at 20,000 ft.
HELICOPTER PRODUCTION: We have produced 360 Cheetah and 28 Chetal till date.
JAGUAR UPGRADE: DARIN III upgrade designed by us and all requirement of Initial Operational Clearance completed and we will be upgrading 61 JAGUAR to DARIN III standard
MIRAGE UPGRADE - IOC upgrade at France and Final Operational Clearance (FOC) done by us and 51 MIRAGE aircraft to be done by HAL.
HAWK I - Is the 100th produced aircraft by us, HAL. Owned and upgraded by HAL.
SUKHOI 30 MKI UPGRADE: HAL the lead agency for Sukhoi 30 MKI upgrade. Will have back to back contracts with Sukhoi Design Bureau. Two phase upgrade. First phase to start within 90 days.
HTT40: Our basic trainer had its first flight in June 2016. An order of 106 planes from the IAF is expected. We are entering the stall and spin trial and once done, we will take a managerial decision to produce. It has been funded by us.
INTERMEDIATE JET TRAINER: It will come out of the grey and much-delayed stall and spin will be accomplished too. This year you will see it.
FIFTH GENERATION FIGHTER AIRCRAFT PROGRAMME WITH RUSSIA: The committee has submitted its commercial and contractual report to the contract government committee. We hope our government will move on a positive note in the next few months. FGFA our discussion is complete. From our side, confident that this opportunity will not be missed in participating in FGFA.
INDIA's LIGHT UTILITY HELICOPTER: Successfully carried out its maiden flight in September 2016 and intend to complete certification by 2018 and start delivering by 2019-20
INDIAN MULTI ROLE HELICOPTER: A full scale mock up of Indian Multi Role Helicopter at our stall and we want it to have a service ceiling of 20,000 ft with carrying capacity of 24 people. Can do all roles including VIP duties.
UAV DEVELOPMENT: Mini UAV of 80 kg ready for production. It can do day and night surveillance. Development of 10kg rotary UAV taken up. December 16, 2015 the first flight was done. Upto 500kg class rotary UAVs we want to build.
INDO RUSSIA MTA IS DEAD: Multi-role Transport Aircraft is not progressing well. It is currently on a stop mode. No work is going on over the MTA. It was a JV formed with Russia and both governments have put in their money. It will be a collective decision.
SERVICEABILITY: Every HAL supplied platform has 65 per cent serviceability and Sukhoi 30 MKI maximum serviceability of 68 per cent. We have given a proposal to MoD to become Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) for Sukhoi in India.
COMMONALITIES OF PARTS FOR HELICOPTERS: Commonality of parts achieved in helicopters is a lot. Except the Light Combat Helicopter, all helicopters have a lot of commonalities.
R & D AT HAL: 6.5 per cent of our budget committed to R&D. Over Rs 1000 cr is the R&D budget. We are the largest among defence PSUs investing in R&D.KAMOV 226T - The shareholding brief has been signed before President Putin and PM Modi during BRICS. We are now awaiting the Russian Presidential clearance and then MoD will lay down the process of making Kamov 226T.
Thanks for what, Nick saar?Nick_S wrote:Thanks k prasad.
Austingaru thanks for that report.Austin wrote: INDIAN MULTI ROLE HELICOPTER: [/b]A full scale mock up of Indian Multi Role Helicopter at our stall and we want it to have a service ceiling of 20,000 ft with carrying capacity of 24 people. Can do all roles including VIP duties.
INDO RUSSIA MTA IS DEAD:[/b] Multi-role Transport Aircraft is not progressing well. It is currently on a stop mode. No work is going on over the MTA. It was a JV formed with Russia and both governments have put in their money. It will be a collective decision.
- I can't even say it. I was worried that M stands for "medium"shiv wrote:
Austingaru thanks for that report.
The happiest news of 2017 is that the "M" in IMRH stands for multi. I was worried that it stands for eeeek
Rakesh wrote:This is HUGE! I have not seen this picture before, so forgive my excitement!!!
Enjoy Jingos...if you already have not seen it!
Do not forget to click on the magnifying glass on the top right hand corner of the photo.
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipN ... ZUdWlwOEZ3
Any link to this news?shiv wrote:Did you guys know that air superiority fighters of the IAF were on continuous CAP over Aero India?
That was little birdiestan newsJTull wrote:Any link to this news?shiv wrote:Did you guys know that air superiority fighters of the IAF were on continuous CAP over Aero India?