Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

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Thakur_B
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Thakur_B » 11 Sep 2017 11:37

brar_w wrote:
Karan M wrote:
Today, India has its own EL/M-2084 equivalent in the S-Band Arudhra radar.
http://i.imgur.com/38MO1oI.jpg



I always thought the Arudha was the -2084 manufactured locally under Israel's build it yourself model for the radar family. What are the differences between the two?


Confusion arises because El/M-2084 has been also been designated Arudhra by IAF.

Gaur
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Gaur » 11 Sep 2017 11:39

manjgu wrote:a query...about NAG ... Does the seeker accquire target at launch or mid course? does the target have to be in LOS? how does cueing happen?


NAG works in LOBL (lock on before launch) mode. So the target is acquired, missile fired and then the carrier vehicle NAMICA can move away to increase its survivability. I don't think any other ATGM in IA's inventory has this feature. Even Milans need to be continuously guided till they hit the target.

Rohit Vats has written an amazingly informative article on India's ATGMs in this blog. Its a shame he left BRF.

http://vatsrohit.blogspot.com/2017/08/indian-army-and-anti-tank-guided.html

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Karan M » 11 Sep 2017 20:31

brar_w wrote:
Karan M wrote:
Today, India has its own EL/M-2084 equivalent in the S-Band Arudhra radar.
http://i.imgur.com/38MO1oI.jpg



I always thought the Arudha was the -2084 manufactured locally under Israel's build it yourself model for the radar family. What are the differences between the two?


Will keep it short lest Ramana comes after me with INSAS.

Arudhra is the name given by the AF to its EL/M-2084 MMSR and also by DRDO to its inhouse medium power radars. Only common thing are their performance levels (both are intended for the IAFs MPR, i.e. Medium Power Radar specification) and are both S-Band. DRDO originally planned to import the active array module (with its entire hardware) and combine it with local actuation and signal processing for a domestic radar. To their credit, IAF disagreed and asked them to do the entire thing in-house (of course some COTS chips etc will be imported), but DRDO designed their own in-house S-Band modules & indigenized the array and built a complete radar which is now in IAF user trials. It has a range of 300 km for a 2 sqm and some 150km for a 0.2 sqmtr target (good that they are at least calibrating for targets of that size). IAF has ordered 18 of the Israeli radars and intended for an initial 8 of the DRDO type (before it was developed, indent) and hence DRDO orders may increase now its proving itself and the technology has matured (AEW&C, Arudhra and a 180km radar called Ashwini, all using S-Band modules). Another S-band unit is the MFCR basically from Thales and an indigenized version built under TOT and there are also the semi-active S Band lightweight AESA units for the Army and AF (some 30 plus radars easily). So net net, DRDO is on its path to standardizing AESA designs and can work towards scaling further in the arena.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Pratyush » 11 Sep 2017 21:12

Karan I was wondering if MFSTR can be used to guide a missile with Akash seeker.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby darshhan » 11 Sep 2017 22:58

hard work and research painstakingly done earlier by KaranM being utilised by the site below. This is no coincidence.

list of IAF aerial weaponry

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby JayS » 11 Sep 2017 23:04

Such cheapos. And they have galls to put a copywrite note below plagerised content. Cant be something done to stop this a-holes? Though it does help spread quality info around, these idrw guys are too much. Should be given an earful on twitter.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Indranil » 11 Sep 2017 23:07

Gaur wrote:Rohit Vats has written an amazingly informative article on India's ATGMs in this blog. Its a shame he left BRF.

http://vatsrohit.blogspot.com/2017/08/indian-army-and-anti-tank-guided.html

There is no bigger well-wisher of BRF than Rohit. He will return when BRF needs him.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Kanson » 11 Sep 2017 23:08

karan_mc wrote:
hanumadu wrote:Apologies if posted earlier.


Can we do it on our own when we needed Israeli help for MRSAM/LRSAM?


Initial report was SAM System with range of 150km and later DRDO people said it is 250km SAM System . but Now Jha says it will be S-400 Class which means 400+ km ???


You are unnecessarily creating a false proposition! DRDO only said it is developing 300 km SAM as well as 300 km AAM. When officials like Chander spoke the range was mentioned as 250 km for SAM. 150 km doesn't arise on the horizon.

If you see in S400, bulk of their activity is carried out by 250 km range 48N6 and 120 km range 9M96 variants.

So it is natural only for DRDO (if you take this view) to come up with such 250-300 km missile.

400 km 40N6 is for exceptional case. And we don't know how good its performance is such long range.

While it looks good in bragging rights, question remains.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby darshhan » 11 Sep 2017 23:12

JayS wrote:Such cheapos. And they have galls to put a copywrite note below plagerised content. Cant be something done to stop this a-holes? Though it does help spread quality info around, these idrw guys are too much. Should be given an earful on twitter.


Exactly. Those who have twitter accounts should raise the matter there. This is nothing but blatant thievery.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Gaur » 11 Sep 2017 23:54

Indranil wrote:
Gaur wrote:Rohit Vats has written an amazingly informative article on India's ATGMs in this blog. Its a shame he left BRF.

http://vatsrohit.blogspot.com/2017/08/indian-army-and-anti-tank-guided.html

There is no bigger well-wisher of BRF than Rohit. He will return when BRF needs him.

Really hope he does. His knowledge and analysis is unparalleled and dearly missed.

Austin
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Austin » 11 Sep 2017 23:56

Did Rohit Vats leave BRF ?

Indranil
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Indranil » 12 Sep 2017 01:03

darshhan wrote:
JayS wrote:Such cheapos. And they have galls to put a copywrite note below plagerised content. Cant be something done to stop this a-holes? Though it does help spread quality info around, these idrw guys are too much. Should be given an earful on twitter.


Exactly. Those who have twitter accounts should raise the matter there. This is nothing but blatant thievery.

Karan, welcome to my side. I have seen this for the past 2-3 years :D

ramana
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby ramana » 12 Sep 2017 01:11

JayS wrote:Such cheapos. And they have galls to put a copywrite note below plagerised content. Cant be something done to stop this a-holes? Though it does help spread quality info around, these idrw guys are too much. Should be given an earful on twitter.



IDRW claims its by Vishal Karpe and is a contributed article.
What the 'author' did was put some pictures to the list that KaranM put together.

Any way moron has only that much capability.

he doesn't know why KaranM put together the list.


Also idrw is notorious for copying ideas posted by members and writing article.

Looks like #DefencePresstitutes

We should popularize this hashtag.

Bart S
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Bart S » 12 Sep 2017 01:31

IDRW has no original content except from some random internet armchair fanboys. Mostly they just aggregate other people's content.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Cybaru » 12 Sep 2017 01:45

Just start putting lists on BR Blog and putting copyright of the original author next to it. We need to start defending the work that people put in here.

brar_w
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby brar_w » 12 Sep 2017 02:12

THanks Karan for the information on the radar. If you have time could you please also provide additional information if available on what differences that exist between these two prime power units (or compared to the two array sizes version of the Israeli radars) used on these two radar, in the radar thread.

Thakur_B
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Thakur_B » 12 Sep 2017 07:25

Just ban linking of IDRW on BR. They get plenty of traffic from here.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby shiv » 12 Sep 2017 07:35

Cybaru wrote:Just start putting lists on BR Blog and putting copyright of the original author next to it. We need to start defending the work that people put in here.

It's not that simple. Claiming copyright means that you have to be ready to fight a legal battle to back your claim. If not it's all fluff. If you want credit for work do not post in an internet forum. Post in a blog with date and put a copyright note. Or else let them steal and know that they are stealing

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby karan_mc » 12 Sep 2017 08:54

Kanson wrote:
karan_mc wrote:
Initial report was SAM System with range of 150km and later DRDO people said it is 250km SAM System . but Now Jha says it will be S-400 Class which means 400+ km ???


You are unnecessarily creating a false proposition! DRDO only said it is developing 300 km SAM as well as 300 km AAM. When officials like Chander spoke the range was mentioned as 250 km for SAM. 150 km doesn't arise on the horizon.

If you see in S400, bulk of their activity is carried out by 250 km range 48N6 and 120 km range 9M96 variants.

So it is natural only for DRDO (if you take this view) to come up with such 250-300 km missile.

400 km 40N6 is for exceptional case. And we don't know how good its performance is such long range.

While it looks good in bragging rights, question remains.


I didn't make false Proposition that it was S-400 Class SAM System .When Jha said it is S-400 class SAM System , then it will obviously will to lead Speculation that DRDO is talking about Multiple SAM with Varying Range which they are working on .

How do you define a SAM system as S-400 Class ?? Obviously S-400 Class means engagement range will be upto 400km depending on the missile variant used. S-400 has 9M96E2 missile which has 120km range variant so you cannot dismiss that 150km range variant missile is not on horizon if we are really developing S-400 Class System if will require multiple variants .

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby deejay » 12 Sep 2017 09:26

shiv wrote:
Cybaru wrote:Just start putting lists on BR Blog and putting copyright of the original author next to it. We need to start defending the work that people put in here.

It's not that simple. Claiming copyright means that you have to be ready to fight a legal battle to back your claim. If not it's all fluff. If you want credit for work do not post in an internet forum. Post in a blog with date and put a copyright note. Or else let them steal and know that they are stealing


Copyright laws are the weakest among all laws. Even if you could prove, try getting the guilty punished.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby jamwal » 12 Sep 2017 10:31

I have managed to get a few websites shutdown or at least get struck off Google search engine after they copied my content. I can help if the admins want . There is no 400 percent guarantee, but it usually works .

This irdw has copied a lot of content from here. I just need the links

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Philip » 14 Sep 2017 11:32

https://sputniknews.com/military/201709 ... k-missile/
Cobra’s Venom: India’s Homegrown Anti-Tank Missile Impresses in TestsCC BY-SA 2.5 / Ajai Shukla / Nag missile
MILITARY & INTELLIGENCE
22:32 12.09.2017
India has successfully tested their domestically produced “Nag” anti-tank guided missile (ATGM,) reports the Indian Ministry of Defense (MoD.) The Nag is meant to eventually replace foreign-made missiles to become the Indian military’s first and primary anti-tank weapon.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby JayS » 14 Sep 2017 12:46

Do we have any efforts going on to create an ATGM ATAM version of HELINA...? I think its possible to do that in short term.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Kakarat » 14 Sep 2017 13:13

JayS wrote:Do we have any efforts going on to create an ATGM version of HELINA...? I think its possible to do that in short term.


I am not able to get what you are asking
HeliNa is 'Helicopter Launch Nag' a version of Nag and both are ATGM

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Prasad » 14 Sep 2017 14:14

Man portable you mean? That is on the cards.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby SSridhar » 14 Sep 2017 17:43

You heard it: IAF test of Astra missile rattles window panes in Balasore off Odisha coast - Hemant Kumar Rout, New Indian Express

Great news, folks.

BHUBANESWAR: The Indian Air Force (IAF) on Thursday conducted an air exercise involving the air-to-air missile Astra against an actual target in full operational configuration over the Bay of Bengal.

Defence sources said the beyond-visual-range (BVR) missile was fired from a Sukhoi-30 MKI fighter jet targeting a pilotless target aircraft (PTA) Banshee. The mission was termed ‘successful’ considering the missed-distance calculation.


People were taken aback by the sound generated by the exercise. It was so loud that window panes shattered in some houses in Balasore. It triggered speculation of a huge explosion.

“The exercise was conducted in a war-like scenario and the missile was fired on an actual target. Data collected during the test is being examined,” said an official.

The test was, however, conducted to demonstrate the aerodynamic characteristics and killing ability of the missile. It demonstrated the repeatability, robustness and endurance capability of the Astra weapon system, said the official.

About the sound, he clarified that when a fighter aircraft travels at supersonic speeds it creates shockwaves that resembles a huge explosion. So there is no need to panic, he added.

Indigenously designed and developed by DRDO, Astra possesses single shot kill probability (SSKP), making it highly reliable. It is an all-weather missile with active radar terminal guidance, excellent electronic counter-counter measure (ECCM) features, smokeless propulsion and process improved effectiveness in multi-target scenario.

Not only the Sukhoi-30 MKI, scientists have started integrating the weapon with homegrown Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA). The air exercise will continue for some more days involving two other air-to-air missiles apart from Astra, sources informed.

Astra is designed for 80-km range in head-on mode and 20 km-range in tail-chase mode. The 3.8 metres long missile, which has launch weight about 154 kg, uses solid-fuel propellant and a 15 kg high-explosive warhead, activated by a proximity fuse.

Fitted with a terminal active radar-seeker and an updated mid-course internal guidance system, the missile can locate and track targets. It is difficult to track this missile as its on-board electronic counter-measures jam signals from the enemy radars.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby JayS » 14 Sep 2017 19:58

Kakarat wrote:
JayS wrote:Do we have any efforts going on to create an ATGM version of HELINA...? I think its possible to do that in short term.


I am not able to get what you are asking
HeliNa is 'Helicopter Launch Nag' a version of Nag and both are ATGM


Oops. :oops: Typing muscle memory at work, I meant to type ATAM. Like how Mistral ATAM is based on Mistral.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Pratyush » 14 Sep 2017 21:51

Well I remember reading about the inception of the program in 1997-98 time period. It was then reported that the missile will enter service by 2003. 2003 came and went by, but no entry into service.

Now with the fast paced user trials in place, it is finally on the home stretch. I look forward to seeing it in IAF service.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby ramana » 14 Sep 2017 23:05

Yes IGMP did say 2003. But meantime the challenges of the IIR seeker delayed it and the many tests to proof the system.
The good thing is the Nag is quite venomous and to toothless after the long gestation period.

There is Sanskrit word for a toothless cobra.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Indranil » 15 Sep 2017 01:41

JayS wrote:Do we have any efforts going on to create an ATGM ATAM version of HELINA...? I think its possible to do that in short term.

How would you make an ATAM version of Helina? The airframe and propulsion will be completely different.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby ramana » 15 Sep 2017 02:46

Indranil, What had the sonic boom go to do with the Astra testing? Was the SU-30 supersonic when it fired the Astra?

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Indranil » 15 Sep 2017 05:33

Yes.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby ramana » 15 Sep 2017 06:09

Nice.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Raja Bose » 15 Sep 2017 07:02

Indranil wrote:Yes.


:shock: 8) 8)

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Sid » 15 Sep 2017 07:59

So I tried to look for it, but can anyone please explain if an AAM be released at supersonic speeds.

Wouldn't supersonic shockwave cause trouble for AAM?

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Indranil » 15 Sep 2017 08:49

I don't understand your question. Missiles are capable of supersonic flight :D

Do you mean what happens if the separation is at very close to 1 Mach ?

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Singha » 15 Sep 2017 08:50

aam have always been capable of being released at supersonic speed.
most of the bombs cannot be.
anything which flies off under own power should be ok.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Sid » 15 Sep 2017 08:56

Yup, their separation when aircraft is already supersonic. Every AAM has launch parameters (max G, speed, altitude, etc) which must match before the launch. Is supersonic speed in acceptable speed range for AAM?

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Karthik S » 15 Sep 2017 08:57

May be rail launched AAM can be launched when the plane is supersonic, ejector launched may have the same limitations as those of bombs.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Singha » 15 Sep 2017 08:59

I am sure the f22 would disagree. its game is organized around sustained supersonic missile launches.


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