Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

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ramana
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by ramana »

sum wrote:Whats the special requirement for a night trial?

Also has the SFC ever testfired from anywhere except ITR? Is it assumed that in actual combat, it would be fired from ITR since there has never been any testing from any non DRDO location?
P2 is a liquid fuelled vehicle. So filling up.etc was done at night per the report.

So that's the uniqueness.

Also optical tracking the trajectory will be better.

For very long range launches, the practice is to make use of time zone to have darkness in splash zone for optical tracking.

An old book circa 1958 explained the theory.
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Zynda »

I don't know if this piece of news was posted here earlier...From DRDO News Letter dated Feb 2018
Akash Weapon System, already in service with the IAF, was refurbished with the IR seeker to the satisfaction of the user. We are now in process of
exporting the system to the friendly countries.
I don't think the above is Akash-1S. Any idea which variant of Akash is the above? If we are toying with IR seeker then perhaps we are not that far behind IIR seeker (the above could be IIR seeker...IR seeker could be a typo), which eventually means our own heat sig seeking AAM.

https://drdo.gov.in/drdo/pub/newsletter/2018/feb_18.pdf
Varoon Shekhar
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Varoon Shekhar »

An absolutely excellent article on Akash missile in rediff.com, by none other than Ajai Shukla! He is known to be lukewarm, at most, to Indian designed and developed products. He's quite gung ho this time.Can't copy and paste it now, but anyone can read it on the site!
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Raveen »

Varoon Shekhar wrote:An absolutely excellent article on Akash missile in rediff.com, by none other than Ajai Shukla! He is known to be lukewarm, at most, to Indian designed and developed products. He's quite gung ho this time.Can't copy and paste it now, but anyone can read it on the site!
Link?
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Shameek »

Akash Missile
Why India needs the Akash missile

This is the first time an entirely Indian designed, developed, and manufactured product is being deployed in numbers, says Ajai Shukla.
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Varoon Shekhar »

^
Thanks Shameek, I was offline for a while, couldn't provide the link. Looks like it's not a 'new' article. But, maybe it hasn't been posted on BR as yet!
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Katare »

We don't need enemies, do we?
Aditya_V
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Aditya_V »

http://www.livemint.com/Money/c7tgwgJL2DNUDBi7IJj0FM

https://www.pressreader.com/india/the-e ... 0248446112


Ajai Sukla has unfortunately reporting based on his political viewpoint. BEK has a record order book out of which Akash is a key missile
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Indranil »

His political viewpoint (and favoritism to F-35) aside, I have never seen an article from him which is critical of desi systems. We should give the man his due, where he deserves it.
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Aditya_V »

Regarding Ajai Sukla, I have critical articles on Arjun and Akash from him which were inaccurate.

Meanwhile, Dhanush missile Test fired, still can't understand why this missile exists- I mean how many OPV's and how missiles can we carry? that too on a surface vessel- well atleast this missile can't be fired from ITR on Land.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 043606.cms
Dhanush' missile is capable of carrying a payload of 500 kg and hitting both land and sea-based targets, the sources said, adding that its trial was carried out by the Strategic Force Command (SFC) of the defence forces.
Really what kind of terminal guidance can this have to take out a Sea Based target at Mach 6-7 descending really fast.
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Vips »

Indranil wrote:His political viewpoint (and favoritism to F-35) aside, I have never seen an article from him which is critical of desi systems. We should give the man his due, where he deserves it.
He speaks with a forked tongue, He is a part of the chai samosa guzzling track thoo participants from the Indian side who advocates that we should smoke the peace pipe with Shitistan. His some times accurate (Unbiased) news articles on Indian arms and defense related matters is just to maintain his credibility and (and paycheck)from the magazine he writes for.
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by John »

Aditya_V wrote:Meanwhile, Dhanush missile Test fired, still can't understand why this missile exists- I mean how many OPV's and how missiles can we carry? that too on a surface vessel- well atleast this missile can't be fired from ITR on Land.
For now it probably also serves as strategic missile to be used as an Anti-carrier weapon and we all know whose building another one. Range will be around ~700 km for AsuW. Hopefully Shaurya can replace this.
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by vipins »

Hemant Kumar Rout on Dhanush Test
The test was aimed at checking the performance of manoeuvring stealth warheads besides gauging the efficiency and killing probability of the missile in a real-time situation.
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by srai »

Indranil wrote:His political viewpoint (and favoritism to F-35) aside, I have never seen an article from him which is critical of desi systems. We should give the man his due, where he deserves it.
Long ago he used to be critical of desi systems but then suddenly had a change of heart (maybe a decade ago). After that, his pieces have been very supportive.
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by srai »

Shameek wrote:Akash Missile
Why India needs the Akash missile

This is the first time an entirely Indian designed, developed, and manufactured product is being deployed in numbers, says Ajai Shukla.
...
But production ecosystems are nurtured with production orders.

Today, the Akash production chain stands empty as the defense ministry haggles with BEL over the cost of its next order.

Consequently, the induction of another eight Akash squadrons is held up by the ministry's insistence that the Akash must match international prices.

...

Why should the military buy more Akash even if it costs more than equivalent foreign systems?
...
Which foreign SAM is cheaper than Akash?
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by John »

^ I think it is hypothetical question but Russians did offer Buk at bargain prices from their inventory but it was rejected due to many reasons.
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Kartik »

Indigenous radome for Astra BVRAAM tested successfully as per DRDO newsletter
Indigenous Fused Silica Radome for Astra missile has also been successfully flight tested.
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Aditya_V »

Hopefully, this pave the way for replacing the Cobham radome in our LCA, LCA MK2 and AMCA.
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Singha »

if dhanush is solid fuel ASBMski, can be think of mounting a few amidships on the P15mki ships perhaps with the silo top raised one level above the base deck like the famous Buyan class corvettes keep the kaliber silos?

these 'strike length' silos could in time also use smaller sub-tubes to carry 2-3 nirbhays each...and future hypersonic weapons like B2.

we need to plan for it and bake that into our ship designs...cannot be MLUed as the silo block will go 3 deck levels down right in middle of the ship.

another option is inclined boxes facing to rear on the helicopter deck...and using the volume of the heli hanger for this....since we do not have any helicopters anyway....and our ASW heli deal will take 20 years to be finalized.
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Katare »

Indranil wrote:His political viewpoint (and favoritism to F-35) aside, I have never seen an article from him which is critical of desi systems. We should give the man his due, where he deserves it.
I think this is correct assesment of Shukla. His politics is sickening but he is patriotic man and have been consistently pro indigenous products.
Katare
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Katare »

Aditya_V wrote:http://www.livemint.com/Money/c7tgwgJL2DNUDBi7IJj0FM

https://www.pressreader.com/india/the-e ... 0248446112


Ajai Sukla has unfortunately reporting based on his political viewpoint. BEK has a record order book out of which Akash is a key missile
The livemint link is not working for me and press reader link does not contradict Shukla. The order for 8 squadron was worth Rs25K corer as per the media reports of that time, BDL has orderbook of Rs 11K corer which would modtly be for antitank missiles that it builds for Army (Milan, Konkurs and invar). BDL director’s claim of Akash orders in the Pipeline could mean they are expecting or in process of getting the order. This govt has been a big disappointment on it’s handling of Indian military modernization, its barely better than the UPA, not the quantum jump jingos were hoping for.
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Aditya_V »

Links posted from Mobile, Govt may not be the Quantum jump Jingos are hoping for, but please before hero worshipping Shukla, see his reports in 2010 period where he completely dissed the Akash.

Here is the link, he has been painting a picture on how no Pinaka, No Akash , no orders etc, which is not accurate.

http://www.livemint.com/Money/c7tgwgJL2 ... onics.html
The performance in the June quarter was boosted by execution of large projects. If headline numbers are anything to go by, strong execution continued in the last quarter as well. “Execution continues to be strong, driven by the IACCS (integrated air command and control system), weapon locating radar and Akash missile system orders,” Motilal Oswal Securities Ltd said in a note.
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Aditya_V »

Here are Quarter on Quarter BEL Performance Highlights.
Seems like GOI gives its major orders only during Q4 of every financial year.

IN 2016-17 16.3K crore orders placed with BEL(2012-13 5.2K crore, 2013-14 4.2K Crore) , this year 6K crore has been placed. Order book of BEL has increased from 33.6K crore as on 1.1.17 to 41K crore as of 1.1.18. was in the 24K crore range

http://bel-india.com/Documentviews.aspx ... 7%20Q3.pdf

http://bel-india.com/Documentviews.aspx ... 7%20Q3.pdf
http://bel-india.com/Documentviews.aspx ... 8%20Q1.pdf
http://bel-india.com/Documentviews.aspx ... ghtsQ2.pdf
http://bel-india.com/Documentviews.aspx ... lights.pdf

Notice how BEL turnover has increased from 1500 crore run rate to 2400-2500 crore per quarter over the last 1.5 years. this was 926 crore in Q3 2013-14.

So basically in 3 years BEL(consildated) turnover has increased from 3.5 K crore to 10K crore per annum. Fromt hese articles looks like the 7th Squadron of Akash will soon be ordered, hopefully in the 1s config. with active seeker.
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by nvishal »

Dhanush test. That jet looks liquid fueled.



I expected it to come out of some silo hole or a tube but this looks fixed. What do they have in mind?
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Aditya_V »

It is kept Horizontally while sailing and then mounted vertically and then launched
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Indranil »

My theory is that they are using up all the liquid fueled Prithvi-airframes for testing various aspects like "stealth maneuvering warheads" (whatever that means), system readiness, BMD targets etc.
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by nvishal »

^ Agreed

That dhanush setup on the INS Subhadra (P51) looks like a temporary test rig. Those fins too are not retractable but fixed.

stealth maneuvering warheads

A "stealth" warhead?
A warhead that "maneuvers"?

Maybe there is a second stage.
Warhead maybe a glider in form factor like small drones which are hard to spot on the radar.
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Will »

Well as per reports the Prithvi's are going to be replaced by the shorter ranged Agni's and other missiles. Guess they are just expending the existing stocks and putting them to best use for testing and training.
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Katare »

Aditya_V wrote:Links posted from Mobile, Govt may not be the Quantum jump Jingos are hoping for, but please before hero worshipping Shukla, see his reports in 2010 period where he completely dissed the Akash.

Here is the link, he has been painting a picture on how no Pinaka, No Akash , no orders etc, which is not accurate.

http://www.livemint.com/Money/c7tgwgJL2 ... onics.html
The performance in the June quarter was boosted by execution of large projects. If headline numbers are anything to go by, strong execution continued in the last quarter as well. “Execution continues to be strong, driven by the IACCS (integrated air command and control system), weapon locating radar and Akash missile system orders,” Motilal Oswal Securities Ltd said in a note.
If you take hero worship type of argument i could use equally useless and offending line but what is the point? Lets stay on message and facts. Disagreement is one thing charrcterization is another
ramana
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by ramana »

Prithvi belongs to class of missiles called aeroballistic. It does not leave the atmosphere and re-enter. The whole missile is 20mm anoveted till the end.

This Dhanush test has stage separation and a stealth, maneuvering warhead. Stealth being low observable. Also note the CEP is very low.
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Viv S »

Shameek wrote:Akash Missile
Why India needs the Akash missile
I much preferred the Ajai Shukla's original headline over the Rediff edited one -

Buy the Akash. It is ours
ramana
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by ramana »

Viv S wrote:
Shameek wrote:Akash Missile
I much preferred the Ajai Shukla's original headline over the Rediff edited one -

Buy the Akash. It is ours

I am going to.invite him back.
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by srin »

Going over his articles, he has a set of biases, some of which overlap with mine and some are in direct conflict.
- He is extremely anti-Modi and anti-NDA
- He is track-2 participant. He was in *that* meeting at the embassy before Gujarat elections.
(I think the above two should disqualify him from BRF, but that's just my personal opinion).
- He is strongly pro HAL and pro DRDO (he brought in the PC-7 vs HTT-40, T-90 vs Arjun before it became public
- He is strongly pro-fauj and very strongly anti-MoD Babu.
ramana
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by ramana »

We can look at his articles on the military only.
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by Nalla Baalu »

There have been Dhanush dress rehearsal flights preceding ABM test flights of the past, where target gets tracked but electronically neutralized. This test appears to be validation test for a sneakier target.
vipins wrote:Hemant Kumar Rout on Dhanush Test
The test was aimed at checking the performance of manoeuvring stealth warheads besides gauging the efficiency and killing probability of the missile in a real-time situation.
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by JTull »

srai
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by srai »

^^^
We keep hearing successful trials but firm orders/production yet to be greenlighted. Is it still a token order of 13 Namicas and 443 Nag missiles?
ramana
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by ramana »

See above language. It has completed development test.
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Post by srai »

ramana wrote:See above language. It has completed development test.
So user trials next ...
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