Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Sep 2018 21:44

KBDagha wrote:Prahaar test fired successfully. Source: #Hemant Rout @Twitter

Full.report

BHUBANESWAR: Amidst downpour, India successfully test-fired surface-to-surface short-range tactical ballistic missile Prahaar from a defence facility off Odisha coast on Thursday paving the way for its induction.

Mounted on a mobile launcher the indigenously developed missile was flight tested from the launching complex-III of the Integrated Test Range (ITR) at about 1.35 pm.

“The missile blasted off from a canister travelled the desired range before zeroing on the target. All systems functioned normally. The mission achieved a copybook success,” said a defence official.

Equipped with state of the art navigation, guidance and electromechanical actuation systems with the latest onboard computer, the missile achieved the terminal accuracy of fewer than 10 meters. It went up vertically and then manoeuvred as coordinated.

“The missile was launched from a road-mobile launcher, which can carry six missiles at a time and can be fired in salvo mode in all directions covering the entire azimuth plane. There was not a single degree deviation during the entire flight path,” the official told The New Indian Express.

Having a strike range of 150 km, Prahaar has no parallel in the world in its range category. It fills the vital gap between multi-barrel rocket Pinaka and medium-range ballistic missile Prithvi. Unlike Prithvi, it can engage multiple targets in different directions.

The missile capable of carrying different types of warheads will operate as battlefield support system to the Indian Army. It has a greater manoeuvring capability, acceleration and can be deployed in different kinds of terrain making it more effective against strategic targets.

The weapon has sophisticated inertial navigation and electro-mechanical actuation system. It can be transported to anywhere within a short span of time. It was the second test of the missile, which was first tested on July 21, 2011. It will be indicted in the army after few more tests, the official said.

Fuelled by solid propellant Prahaar missile is about 7.32 meter long and its diameter is 420 mm. While its launch weight is about 1.28 tonne, it can carry a payload of 200 kg. The missile system is developed to provide the Indian Army with a cost-effective, quick reaction, all weather, all terrain, high accurate battlefield support tactical system.

Prior to the test, 4228 people including 3593 adults and 635 children from 634 families in five hamlets located within two km radius of the test range were shifted to two temporary shelters and mariners were alerted.

What makes Prahaar lethal

Strike range is 150 km
Small, lean and slim having a length of 7.32 meter and diameter 420 mm
Weighs around 1.28 tonne
Can carry warhead up to 200 kg
Uses solid propellant and travels at a speed of Mach 2
Highly manoeuvring with better accuracy
Launcher can carry six missiles having different kind of warheads meant for different targets
Can be fired in salvo mode in all directions covering the entire azimuth plane
Can be deployed in both stand-alone and canisterised mode

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Sep 2018 21:49

Trikaal wrote:Is Prahar India's response to Nasr? Tactical nuke missile. I remember reading about this ages ago.

No. Nasr is nuke equipped and much shorter range.
This replaces Prithvi which was dual armed and hence unusable.
Now Prahaar which has 150km range and 200kg payload with single digit CEP makes IA strike corps more powerful.

Hope Army Hqs will.allow Corps to control this weapon.

Trikaal · Post by **Trikaal** » 20 Sep 2018 22:00

ramana wrote: No. Nasr is nuke equipped and much shorter range.
This replaces Prithvi which was dual armed and hence unusable.

What stops India from using a nuclear warhead on this missile? More importantly, is there a structural/technical difference between a nuclear capable missile and a conventional missile?

disha · Post by **disha** » 20 Sep 2018 22:30

Trikaal wrote:
ramana wrote: No. Nasr is nuke equipped and much shorter range.
This replaces Prithvi which was dual armed and hence unusable.
What stops India from using a nuclear warhead on this missile? More importantly, is there a structural/technical difference between a nuclear capable missile and a conventional missile?

Nothing stops India from using a nuclear warhead on this missile. But why do you want your tactical battlefield weapons to be nuclear? It is useless.

This missile with different combinations of warheads can be sprinkled across several IA regiments and as suggested earlier a corps level commander can make decisions on how and where to use it. This gives tremendous ops flexibility to battlefield commanders.

Imagine Prahaar is deployed near Sri Ganganagar and Jaisalmer. Entire arc of Bakistan from Lahore to Hyderabad can be cut off. One more in Bhuj and Kranchi can be crunched up.

Everything from Isloo to Kranchi is now openend up. No formations can hide. No missile batteries can be put in place. No Nasur or Babur within 150 Km of Indian Border. In fact, they will have to go back some 200 Km to be out of Indian field artillery. At that point the Prithvi-IIs come into picture.

In a nutshell, Bakis have nowhere to run and nowhere to hide.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 20 Sep 2018 22:31

Gyan wrote:Akash army Regiment price has fallen almost to half compared to previous Army order inspite of having a better missile & time inflation.

i think this reduction is mainly due to not using TATRA trucks... those came at highly inflated price courtesy UPA!!!

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 20 Sep 2018 22:56

Want to correct a few things here.

1. Prahaar is not Pralay
2. Pralay is not PDV-derived. It is Shaurya-derived
3. Pakistan uses the nuclear rattle because it thinks it cannot win a conventional war with India. Its only way out is to escalate it to a nuclear war. Nobody else puts a nuclear bum on a 90 km missile.

It is heartening to see a Tata 8X8 instead of the Tatra. They seem to have realized the universal launcher system on the Tata 8X8 system (shown below). This setup have much lower height and length (compare the old Prahaar/AAD launcher) profile.

However, I think Rout (a very dependable reporter) and his official have got it wrong in the following part

“The missile was launched from a road-mobile launcher, which can carry six missiles at a time and can be fired in salvo mode in all directions covering the entire azimuth plane. There was not a single degree deviation during the entire flight path,” the official told The New Indian Express.

The 8X8 was only supposed to carry two Prahaars. The 12X12 was supposed to carry 6 Prahaars. Also, I am not sure that it was a canister launch either. But I am not worried. That's a solved problem for all means and purposes.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Sep 2018 00:13

Trikaal wrote:
ramana wrote: No. Nasr is nuke equipped and much shorter range.
This replaces Prithvi which was dual armed and hence unusable.
What stops India from using a nuclear warhead on this missile? More importantly, is there a structural/technical difference between a nuclear capable missile and a conventional missile?

1) Stupidity would cause India to use a nuke on this short range missile.

Such an act will effectively preclude its use for the IA in their battle plans.
Prithvi is a hanger queen precisely for that reason.
A very capable missile which DRDO was forced to accept for nuke role and this hamstrung the IA strike corps.

2) Yes there will be technical differences between a nuke capable and conventional missile.

No need to know for us.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 21 Sep 2018 10:40

Few points:-

It seems that Sagarika, Shaurya, PDV & Pralay are all based on same solid fuel engines.

AAD design is now changing as seen from fore end fins. Perhaps learning from Barak 8 programme

Prahaar, Pragati max range in my guess 250km and 150km is an understatement.

Prithvi fuel was converted to storable gel and it was not a hanger queen.

Its good thinking to have heavy & light launcher for Prahaar. I wish for similar 4* and 8* launcher for Pinaka also to increase deployment in mountains.

Prahhar, Pralay, AAD may be suffering in competition to Smerch, Brahmos, S400 lobby.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 21 Sep 2018 11:09

ramana wrote:
Trikaal wrote: What stops India from using a nuclear warhead on this missile? More importantly, is there a structural/technical difference between a nuclear capable missile and a conventional missile?

1) Stupidity would cause India to use a nuke on this short range missile.

Such an act will effectively preclude its use for the IA in their battle plans.
Prithvi is a hanger queen precisely for that reason.
A very capable missile which DRDO was forced to accept for nuke role and this hamstrung the IA strike corps.

2) Yes there will be technical differences between a nuke capable and conventional missile.

No need to know for us.

I am always befuddled when Indian in all sincerity want all their missiles to be nuke tipped without understanding the context. So, in the past we've had seen the talk of nuke tipped Akash and Brahmos.

At least folks need to leave some for the pure conventional role. Folks think anointing a missile for dual role grant's India flexibility but it really does not. There is no fun in having all missiles nuke tipped even if it were possible. Agni series and its SLBM cousins are all that needs to be nuke tipped. If one needs a shorter version, create one and call it Agni-0 but one doesn't want a nuke tipped missile placed right along the border to be effective.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 21 Sep 2018 11:17

If it was left to some on BRF every soldier would carry a Brahmos on his back.

If it was left to DDM, every missile in Indian inventory including Milan-2T would be referred to as nuclear-tipped.

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 21 Sep 2018 11:48

High-resolution Image of Prahar from PIB

http://164.100.117.97/WriteReadData/Gal ... 054257.JPG

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 21 Sep 2018 11:57

I hope we have a good stock of BM's kept for use against PAF airfields, taking out the PA and PAF radars airfields and aircraft quickly and similarly have the ability against the PLAAF is very important for us. We need to dominate the skies soon to devastate our enemies quickly in a conflict

nits · Post by **nits** » 21 Sep 2018 16:45

with so many missiles now operational / proved / to be operational; do we have any image which shows all current / under test / future missiles in one single page along with there range ?

nits · Post by **nits** » 21 Sep 2018 16:50

Got few images

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 21 Sep 2018 19:38

Does Prahaar have a typical ballistic missile trajectory, or a 'depressed' trajectory akin to a cruise missile that DRDO was talking about experimenting with a while back?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Sep 2018 19:58

how is the DF31/41 claiming such superior specs to Agni5 despite being smaller and lighter.
the yars and topol look reasonable being longer motors and maybe 1st stage composite casing.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 21 Sep 2018 21:12

Singha wrote:how is the DF31/41 claiming such superior specs to Agni5 despite being smaller and lighter.
the yars and topol look reasonable being longer motors and maybe 1st stage composite casing.

Either Chinese are bluffing their range or we are selling ourselves short. We both have history of doing both.

nam · Post by **nam** » 21 Sep 2018 21:18

Bart S wrote:Does Prahaar have a typical ballistic missile trajectory, or a 'depressed' trajectory akin to a cruise missile that DRDO was talking about experimenting with a while back?

Why would we want depressed trajectory for a short range missile?

Depressed trajectory mean lower range. Places where Prahaar would be used will not be guarded by ABM missiles.

Trikaal · Post by **Trikaal** » 21 Sep 2018 22:52

pankajs wrote:I am always befuddled when Indian in all sincerity want all their missiles to be nuke tipped without understanding the context. So, in the past we've had seen the talk of nuke tipped Akash and Brahmos.

At least folks need to leave some for the pure conventional role. Folks think anointing a missile for dual role grant's India flexibility but it really does not. There is no fun in having all missiles nuke tipped even if it were possible. Agni series and its SLBM cousins are all that needs to be nuke tipped. If one needs a shorter version, create one and call it Agni-0 but one doesn't want a nuke tipped missile placed right along the border to be effective.

Reason for asking was to know what kind of technical differences are there between a nuke tipped and a conventional ballistic missile and whether interconvertibility is possible. Secondly, having the missile be nuclear capable doesn't mean actually using a nuclear payload. It also helps to keep the enemy guessing and complicate their strategies. But I guess everyone just wants to bash

nam · Post by **nam** » 21 Sep 2018 22:57

The rule is, you don't fight a nuclear war. Wars are fought to be won.

So it pointless to declare every missile as nuke enabled.

Trikaal · Post by **Trikaal** » 21 Sep 2018 23:01

nits wrote:Got few images

It says Nirbhay is in Production stage
Is this true? Did I miss a lot of successful tests? All troubles sorted out? Last I heard, they were getting ready to try it with indigenous engine.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 22 Sep 2018 00:04

Trikaal wrote:
pankajs wrote:I am always befuddled when Indian in all sincerity want all their missiles to be nuke tipped without understanding the context. So, in the past we've had seen the talk of nuke tipped Akash and Brahmos.

At least folks need to leave some for the pure conventional role. Folks think anointing a missile for dual role grant's India flexibility but it really does not. There is no fun in having all missiles nuke tipped even if it were possible. Agni series and its SLBM cousins are all that needs to be nuke tipped. If one needs a shorter version, create one and call it Agni-0 but one doesn't want a nuke tipped missile placed right along the border to be effective.
Reason for asking was to know what kind of technical differences are there between a nuke tipped and a conventional ballistic missile and whether interconvertibility is possible. Secondly, having the missile be nuclear capable doesn't mean actually using a nuclear payload. It also helps to keep the enemy guessing and complicate their strategies. But I guess everyone just wants to bash

I was hoping someone would make this play.

It sure does BUT it also complicates our plans by making us think again and again what the other guy will think when we are launching this dual use rocket and end up complicating our strategies too.

Nothing in real world comes cheap or easy or cost free.

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 22 Sep 2018 01:22

Trikaal wrote:
nits wrote:Got few images
It says Nirbhay is in Production stage
Is this true? Did I miss a lot of successful tests? All troubles sorted out? Last I heard, they were getting ready to try it with indigenous engine.

In production for further testing!!!

Katare · Post by **Katare** » 22 Sep 2018 05:00

kurup · Post by **kurup** » 22 Sep 2018 12:33

120km range experimental flight test scheduled on 25 Sep ......... https://twitter.com/kurup89/status/1043391581489836033

450 km range missile test from 26 to 28 september, interesting trajectory ............ https://twitter.com/kurup89/status/1043392434145619968

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 22 Sep 2018 12:46

450? Is it the ER BrahMos?

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 22 Sep 2018 12:50

DRDO should deliberately overstate range limits by a few km to frustrate BRF watchers.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 22 Sep 2018 12:58

They already do by understating range saar.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 22 Sep 2018 23:26

450km range test may be for Pralay. I wonder what's 120km for ? Pinaka 2Guided?

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 23 Sep 2018 03:09

Karthik S wrote:They already do by understating range saar.

Hey hey hey you mean Agni-V is not exactly 5000km in range, down to the last decimal point? Shocked I tell you, shocked, my faith in humanity has been hurt.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 23 Sep 2018 03:15

Bart S wrote:Does Prahaar have a typical ballistic missile trajectory, or a 'depressed' trajectory akin to a cruise missile that DRDO was talking about experimenting with a while back?

Not depressed trajectory but trajectory shaping. Prahaar's export derivative, the Pragati features:

The Pragati missile has quick reaction from command to launch in ripple firing mode of less than five seconds from same launcher. It is capable of carrying various types of conventional warhead of approximately 200 Kg.

The missile system has capability of deployment in stand-alone mode or centralised mode. its effective and intelligent end trajectory maneuvreing, Pragati defeats detection by any weapon locating radar.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 23 Sep 2018 03:19

massan anti-tank and other weaponries do have DU capability. just infusing some thought here for shoulder carrying rounds

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 23 Sep 2018 03:30

Karan M wrote:
Not depressed trajectory but trajectory shaping. Prahaar's export derivative, the Pragati features:

Thanks!

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 23 Sep 2018 11:21

SaiK wrote:massan anti-tank and other weaponries do have DU capability. just infusing some thought here for shoulder carrying rounds

And where will we source that DU from?

Mukesh.Kumar · Post by **Mukesh.Kumar** » 23 Sep 2018 11:29

Karan M wrote:
SaiK wrote:massan anti-tank and other weaponries do have DU capability. just infusing some thought here for shoulder carrying rounds
And where will we source that DU from?

From neighbourhood chaiwala?

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 23 Sep 2018 14:04

SaiK wrote:massan anti-tank and other weaponries do have DU capability. just infusing some thought here for shoulder carrying rounds

Shoulder carrying rounds!
What is that infusion of thought sir?

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 23 Sep 2018 14:08

What man or woman ATGM uses DU?

Trikaal · Post by **Trikaal** » 23 Sep 2018 14:32

ks_sachin wrote:What man or woman ATGM uses DU?

DU full form?

nandakumar · Post by **nandakumar** » 23 Sep 2018 14:38

Depleted Uranium?

KBDagha · Post by **KBDagha** » 23 Sep 2018 21:01

https://twitter.com/Hemant_TNIE/status/ ... 34624?s=19

PDV test fired. First time at night.