Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

ashthor
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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby ashthor » 18 Jan 2018 12:28

http://idrw.org/nagpur-firm-to-make-boo ... ore-160038

from the article

“Currently, India imports about 35 boosters annually and the demand for the booster is going to be high as IAF will induct more missiles on its fighter jets in the near future.


Annual production is about 35?

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Haridas » 18 Jan 2018 12:53

Ramjet engined Akash booster is made by a Drdo lab. The frikking thing burns (outside to inside) in a second or so. BRAHMOS booster could largely draw from it, it's ram engine needs are similar though less demanding.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Ashokk » 18 Jan 2018 13:34

India successfully test fires Agni-5 ballistic missile
Balasore (Odisha), Jan 18: India today successfully test-fired its nuclear capable surface-to-surface ballistic missile Agni-5 - the most advanced missile in the Agni series with a strike range of over 5000 kms -- from a test range off Odisha coast.

The user associate test-flight of the missile has further boosted indigenous missile capabilities and deterrence strength of the country. All radars, tracking systems and range stations monitored the flight performance, defence sources said.

Describing the trial as “fully successful”, the sources said, the sophisticated missile travelled for 19 minutes and covered 4,900 km. The sleek missile was test-fired from a canister launcher, mounted on a mobile platform, at about 9.54 am from No. 4 launch pad of the Integrated Test Range (ITR) in Abdul Kalam Island, earlier known as Wheeler Island, they said.

“After four successful developmental trials, this was the first user associate test of Agni-5 missile,” the sources added. ‘Agni-5’ is most advanced missile in the Agni series with new technologies incorporated in it in terms of navigation and guidance, warhead and engine. It has a range of over 5000 km.

“The redundant Navigation systems, very high accuracy Ring Laser Gyro based Inertial Navigation System (RINS) and the most modern and accurate Micro Navigation System (MINS) had ensured the missile reached the target point within few metres of accuracy. The high speed on board computer and fault tolerant software along with robust and reliable bus guided the missile flawlessly,” said an official of Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO).


The missile is so programmed that after reaching the peak of its trajectory it will turn towards Earth to continue its journey towards the intended target with an increased speed due to the attraction of the earth’s gravitational pull, he said. Its path is precisely directed by the advanced on-board computer and inertial navigation system, the official added.

The first two successful flights of Agni-5 in 2012 and 2013 were in open configuration. The third, fourth and today’s launch from a canister, integrated with a mobile sophisticated launcher, were in its deliverable configuration that enables launch of the missile with a very short preparation time as compared to an open configuration. It also has advantages of higher reliability, longer shelf life, less maintenance and enhanced mobility.

India has at present in its armoury of Agni series, Agni-1 with 700 km range, Agni-2 with 2000 km range, Agni-3 and Agni-4 with 2500 km to more than 3500km range. The first test of Agni-5 was conducted on April 19, 2012, the second on September 15, 2013, the third on January 31, 2015 and fourth trial on December 26, 2016 from the same base.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Anoop.G » 18 Jan 2018 15:27

Delighted to hear this....the program has come a loooong way since my time at ITR Chandipur in the late 80's during its kickoff (IIRC, back then, I was the only full time civilian resident there!)...Have fond memories of those good old days with Dr. Kalam and his team!

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Singha » 18 Jan 2018 15:38

any pix yet....i want that evil black mushroom of flame and the oak tree coming out of it.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Singha » 18 Jan 2018 15:52

CNN infographic. Mach24 if true makes it as fast as trident d5 , which however will accelerate faster due to composite 1st stage casing - a must do in tranche2 for us
Image

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Philip » 18 Jan 2018 17:30

Great news, kudos to the A-team! Zhongnanhai geriatrics will no longer sleep well at night and I'm sure XI Gins has spilt his drink.There was some hint of an 8-10K range pencil for the future.A-5 success in operational config. has been a significant milestone.This journey, first part, will have been completed when a sub-launched missile of similar range is tested.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Vips » 18 Jan 2018 17:57

Now that the missiles has been fired by the User, this should speed up the process of its formal induction in the armed forces. During the last user test of Agni 4,it was mentioned that after one more test the Agni 4 and a separate missile group would become operational.

Too large a gap between testing and induction by the forces caused by the anemic rate of testing at just one per year. This needs to change.

For BRF'ers the next lungi dance moment will be when we test a MIRV capable Agni 6 with range of at least 6000 Kms.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Karthik S » 18 Jan 2018 18:58

Vips wrote:For BRF'ers the next lungi dance moment will be when we test a MIRV capable Agni 6 with range of at least 6000 Kms.


We are in 2018, how long are we going to test newer missile versions with 1000 km incremental range ? Need to test for "max" range atleast with Agni 6.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby JTull » 18 Jan 2018 19:09

Next has to be "Agni-MIRV" and not "Agni-Max".

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Mort Walker » 18 Jan 2018 20:23

JTull wrote:Next has to be "Agni-MIRV" and not "Agni-Max".

An adversarial planner knows full well that India can from a single launch; place multiple satellites into specific orbital trajectories. The only question that comes up is payload capacity for a specific range.

The “Agni-MIRV” is already here.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby JTull » 18 Jan 2018 20:31

We can also launch much heavier SLVs. It doesn't mean we've a Agni-Max either. Without MIRV capability it'll take us much longer to have a serious nuclear triad. Best to prove it on A-V/VI platform asap.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Rajeev » 18 Jan 2018 22:33

Just like Trident missile of UK . Agni 5's range could be as much as 12,000 km , not just 5000 km as officially stated ..


https://www.oneindia.com/india/the-myst ... 22954.html

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby sudhan » 18 Jan 2018 22:48

^^ Trident is an American Missile.. UK uses it on their boomers..

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby soumik » 18 Jan 2018 23:00

Rajeev wrote:Just like Trident missile of UK . Agni 5's range could be as much as 12,000 km , not just 5000 km as officially stated ..


https://www.oneindia.com/india/the-myst ... 22954.html



I had already said the A5 & A3 could have ICBM ranges far longer than those declared in an article on DFI way back in 2013.

http://defenceforumindia.com/agni-missiles-more-than-what-meets-the-eye-1496

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Austin » 19 Jan 2018 00:03

Need to move beyond BGRV to HGV and learn the fine art of deploying decoys and jammers for Single Warhead RV of Agni-5/3 types during midcourse and reentry phase.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Vips » 19 Jan 2018 00:22

Karthik S wrote:
Vips wrote:For BRF'ers the next lungi dance moment will be when we test a MIRV capable Agni 6 with range of at least 6000 Kms.


We are in 2018, how long are we going to test newer missile versions with 1000 km incremental range ? Need to test for "max" range atleast with Agni 6.


Everyone knows that for India a plain vanilla ballistic missile of 8000 Kms is already a done deal. What is not and will be a game changer is an MIRV missile (even if it is of a shorter range of 6000 Kms).

Need to first take care of the clear and present danger : Chinese Lizards.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby ramana » 19 Jan 2018 00:30

Mort Walker wrote:
JTull wrote:Next has to be "Agni-MIRV" and not "Agni-Max".

An adversarial planner knows full well that India can from a single launch; place multiple satellites into specific orbital trajectories. The only question that comes up is payload capacity for a specific range.

The “Agni-MIRV” is already here.



Mort, in this business only demonstrated capability is acknowledged.
So yes A-MIRV is next step. Even three good ones.

Austin, Decoys are bakwas.
To be effective they have to mimic real ones.
In that case why waste payload?

What is a user associate trial? This is first time hearing that.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby srai » 19 Jan 2018 05:33

Singha wrote:CNN infographic. Mach24 if true makes it as fast as trident d5 , which however will accelerate faster due to composite 1st stage casing - a must do in tranche2 for us
Image

That inforgraphic map radius doesn't look right. Agni-IV to Agni-V shouldn't be that great a bubble.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby SSridhar » 19 Jan 2018 07:12

ramana wrote:What is a user associate trial? This is first time hearing that.

Yes. I guess that this test involved both DRDO & SFC personnel with DRDO hand-holding the SFC guys.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Sid » 19 Jan 2018 07:59

Where are the launch bictures?? By this time from launch we get to se hi def pictures. Wonder what’s cooking?!

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby sum » 19 Jan 2018 09:14

Exactly...i believe some new masala was also around ( maybe MIRV?)

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby krishna_krishna » 19 Jan 2018 09:19

Sid wrote:Where are the launch bictures?? By this time from launch we get to se hi def pictures. Wonder what’s cooking?!


You will not get them anytime soon. It is a Chi-MIRV-A to take care of taller than mountain and with second leg of window of opportunity hopefully will take care of deeper than oceans from aridaman (K5).

Kudos to DRDO, Daman of our enemies is certain. This would be red letter day. Enjoy a gem of presentation of what could our mizziles do by Dr.Pillai (look at the pride he takes while presenting, truly a Padma bhushan of this land) imagine that prithvi could do so many things in 1980's (HGV, Maneuvering) , what would Agni do with such maneuverability (watch carefully all the slides) :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHr5wd_ ... e=youtu.be
Last edited by krishna_krishna on 19 Jan 2018 09:44, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Singha » 19 Jan 2018 09:20

they have many cameras , and there is nothing secret about the environs of the launchpad.

it could mean the A5 had a ogival nose to the RV to prepare for MIRV payloads and our shyness about telegraphing that.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby ramdas » 19 Jan 2018 09:44

@K^2: how do you know that this A5 test is an MIRVed test ? You were saying that it would be a K5 rather than A5 test. Any MIRVed test would have some people with ''inside sources" writing about it sooner or later, like such people did for recent PRC MIRV tests.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Agasthi » 19 Jan 2018 09:46

In the lecture given by Sivathanu Pillai (@46.23), the map of India superimposed on google earth? seems to be missing POK and Aksai Chin.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby ramana » 19 Jan 2018 10:25

KK, So far 2 development tests for vehicle, 3 more for canister means this configuration is ready for induction.
MIRV means more trials.

Not happening

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby krishna_krishna » 19 Jan 2018 10:40

ramana wrote:KK, So far 2 development tests for vehicle, 3 more for canister means this configuration is ready for induction.
MIRV means more trials.

Not happening


Ramana sir I didn't say it was ready for induction. Merely a test just that it will not have pointed cone but a round one. Also navarea warning were two windows one for A5 and one for something else. No pics would be released for obvious reasons.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Haridas » 19 Jan 2018 13:50

ramana wrote:Mort, in this business only demonstrated capability is acknowledged.
So yes A-MIRV is next step. Even three good ones.

One of the initial weaponeer s told me the early design configuration exercise envisaged three flower petals of Agni2 rv for the final big fat astra.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby VickyAvinash » 19 Jan 2018 14:10

Haridas sir, will it be possible for you to re-host the missile pages that were once halmark of BRF missile dhaga? Hope it is not too much of an ask.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Austin » 19 Jan 2018 14:13

ramana wrote:Austin, Decoys are bakwas.
To be effective they have to mimic real ones.
In that case why waste payload?


That is why decoys are deployed that are many times lighter than RV and can mimic its payload during midcourse , Latest decoys are not just lighter and mimic warhead in thermal and Radar spectrum but can survive re-entry too. Jammers are deployed to distort ABM radar from tracking in midcourse.

ABM deployment will be wide spread in next 2 decade hence need to work on Decoys/Jammers Its a complex science and need dozen of test to perfect along with next generation of Glide Vehical HGV , Must be the next big goal of RCI

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Haridas » 19 Jan 2018 14:25

Austin wrote:That is why decoys are deployed that are many times lighter than RV and can mimic its payload during midcourse , Latest decoys are not just lighter and mimic warhead in thermal and Radar spectrum but can survive re-entry too.
Pray tell us how the lighter decoy can mimic the huge thermal signature with matching decelation profile during reentry? Hope you see it's impossibility.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby AdityaM » 19 Jan 2018 15:21

how do they ensure that the ultimate weapon meant for these missile will survive the trip & work.
do they do a vibration, heat, free-fall, radiation, blah blah tests on the 'actual' bombs that are meant for this missile.

Also during this test, what do they fill in the nose cone apart from sensors... concrete, lead.. what?

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby hnair » 19 Jan 2018 16:19

AdityaM wrote:how do they ensure that the ultimate weapon meant for these missile will survive the trip & work.
do they do a vibration, heat, free-fall, radiation, blah blah tests on the 'actual' bombs that are meant for this missile.

Also during this test, what do they fill in the nose cone apart from sensors... concrete, lead.. what?


The RV will be exactly same configuration as a live one and will have full "physics package", but they remove the fissile parts and make sure the chem-explosive primary works at the right altitude. Telemetry on various parts and their test params are streamed back till that point.

There was a nice IR video of this RV of an Agni streaking in from the clouds and the fuse flaring up a the right altitude

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Singha » 19 Jan 2018 16:23

afaik this decoy business ... some treaties may limit the number of warheads ...in any case if there is surplus capacity on the in-service missiles they added lifesize inert decoys exactly the same but no warhead to get some VFM out of it and to improve chances against ABM. any light decoys with no shielding and just RCS match and fake thermal signature will burn on re-entry and be effective only in confusing the tracking radar when in space about how many interceptors to fire....might buy some time and waste some VL tubes.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Singha » 19 Jan 2018 16:31

hnair wrote:
AdityaM wrote:how do they ensure that the ultimate weapon meant for these missile will survive the trip & work.
do they do a vibration, heat, free-fall, radiation, blah blah tests on the 'actual' bombs that are meant for this missile.

Also during this test, what do they fill in the nose cone apart from sensors... concrete, lead.. what?


The RV will be exactly same configuration as a live one and will have full "physics package", but they remove the fissile parts and make sure the chem-explosive primary works at the right altitude. Telemetry on various parts and their test params are streamed back till that point.

There was a nice IR video of this RV of an Agni streaking in from the clouds and the fuse flaring up a the right altitude


Agni1 RV is the only one ever released. the explosion occurs clearly.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Singha » 19 Jan 2018 16:35

hope to see a film like this embodying the wrath of the whole country on any wrongdoers.

A5 or A6 or K4 take your pick but get it done asap - seems like 3 in a tight group and 1 a few kms off.


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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby prasannasimha » 19 Jan 2018 19:05

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDL_pIPScSI

This is a more striking example and see the precision of the hit !!
Prasanna

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby ramdas » 19 Jan 2018 19:56

@K^2: the NAVAREA warning for Jan 19 was removed after the A-5 test. So, nothing else was tested. Just a canisterized A5 with a single warhead.

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Re: Indian Missiles News and Discussions - May 2017

Postby Singha » 19 Jan 2018 19:58

Well maybe replaced the conical third stage motor with a full
Bore motor to permit a much bigger rv


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