Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

All threads that are locked or marked for deletion will be moved to this forum. The topics will be cleared from this archive on the 1st and 16th of each month.
Gyan
BRFite
Posts: 1173
Joined: 26 Aug 2016 19:14

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Gyan » 19 Oct 2018 01:00

ramana wrote:
prasannasimha wrote:The roll/tumble issue has been sorted out and it has undergone trials with a CEP of 10 m.


Even upgraded Mig 27s with new electronics were getting 11m with dumb bombs.
So laser guided 10 m CEP is not an achievement.


It is an achievement depending on how the bomb was released.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 52534
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby ramana » 19 Oct 2018 04:24

prasannasimha wrote:At what distance ? This was drop and glide to > 9 KM Not just a bomb drop


Livefist article had 7.5 km.

Link: https://www.livefistdefence.com/2010/07 ... ig-27.html


Weapon accuracy was a real concern. During upgrade trials, an upgraded MiG-27 conducted an HALR laser-pod assisted drop of a 500-kg dumb bomb from 7.5-km. Its missed distance was 15-metres. This was a dumb bomb, not a PGM.



Sorry 15 meters not 10 meters

So Sudarshan was an improvement. But needed the kit.

Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7403
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Indranil » 19 Oct 2018 10:17

Ramana garu,

ADE was too slow. Others (RCI and co.) caught up and went far passed. Sudarshan is gone, but DRDO has equivalents for every category of PG munition from SANT class to 1000lb folded-wing class.

Kakarat
BRFite
Posts: 1779
Joined: 26 Jan 2005 13:59

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Kakarat » 19 Oct 2018 10:55

Yes Indranil DRDO has in advanced development many classes of PGMs which might see production very soon but I dont think they have a conventional LGB kit which is one of the most cost effective conversion kit for 500-kg dumb bomb

They should not have terminated Sudarshan, may be they should have offered the technology developed to willing company to rectify & further develop it. LGB kits have a good export potential too but it as to be adaptable to other bomb designs too other than out Mk-11

Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7403
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Indranil » 19 Oct 2018 11:48

I was hoping that one of 25 km , <3 mtr accuracy pG kits was the griffin equivalent.

mody
BRFite
Posts: 503
Joined: 18 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Mumbai, India

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby mody » 19 Oct 2018 15:13

IAF used Paveway-II and Griffin-III. As compared to this, Sudarshan was way off. We can try to develop further. I am not sure, why the development has not been taken up. Now IAF seems to have standardized on Griffin. Maybe the price of the kit vs. the development cost doesn't add up. Or DRDO and IAF feel that as Griffin is more then sufficient to take care of IAF needs for a laser guided PGM, DRDO should concentrate on developing other types of PGMs.

By the way what type guidance does the PGHSLD bomb use? Is it laser guided or satellite guided?

Kakarat
BRFite
Posts: 1779
Joined: 26 Jan 2005 13:59

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Kakarat » 19 Oct 2018 15:58

PGHSLD is dual Laser + INS-GPS guided
Image
Image

Gyan
BRFite
Posts: 1173
Joined: 26 Aug 2016 19:14

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Gyan » 19 Oct 2018 16:12

DRDO & IAF is going USAF way by concentrating on adding on gliding wings unlike France & Russian philosophy of heavy boosted bombs & rockets

Kakarat
BRFite
Posts: 1779
Joined: 26 Jan 2005 13:59

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Kakarat » 19 Oct 2018 16:33

Indranil wrote:I was hoping that one of 25 km , <3 mtr accuracy pG kits was the griffin equivalent.


I dont remember any reference to a Sudarshan replacement or a griffin equivalent in development, instead there is a project to adopt griffin on HSLD bomb and development of a new GP bomb (similar to Mk-84) since it was difficult to adopt a standard LGB kit HSLD bomb

Image

500kg GP bomb
Image

dinesha
BRFite
Posts: 1086
Joined: 01 Aug 2004 11:42
Location: Delhi

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby dinesha » 25 Oct 2018 08:49

MISSED MISSILES: FINDING A FAILED MISSILE TEST IN INDIA
https://www.armscontrolwonk.com/archive ... -in-india/

Image

sivab
BRFite
Posts: 910
Joined: 22 Feb 2006 07:56

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby sivab » 25 Oct 2018 09:26

dinesha wrote:MISSED MISSILES: FINDING A FAILED MISSILE TEST IN INDIA



What is the point in giving credence to this dubious source? There was nothing to find. It was widely reported at that time, see this detailed report.

https://idsa.in/idsacomments/agni-ii-tr ... raj_150517

kurup
BRFite
Posts: 124
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 14:22

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby kurup » 27 Oct 2018 12:25

600+ km range warning issued for missile test from Kalam Island on 30/31 October

https://twitter.com/kurup89/status/1056074199536558080

Karthik S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4830
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 12:12

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Karthik S » 27 Oct 2018 13:08

Nirbhay please.


nam
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2349
Joined: 05 Jan 2017 20:48

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby nam » 27 Oct 2018 17:31

The two areas where we have made phenomenal progress : AESA radar & SAM/AAM with Radar seeker. Given that all of these are available in-house, it has given us tremendous scope to scale and cover up the gaps due to fall in IAF numbers. Decade back we had only Perchora.

Our old radars are getting replaced with AESA HPR. We have Arudhra radar coming online, have Israel AESA, Swordfish AESA BMD radar etc. Our survillence and tracking net is going AESA in a big way. According to my current knowledge, even Chinese don't have this level of AESA rollout that we are doing.

Frequency hopping, multi beam, ability to direct power, algo controlled range etc. Linked to a network we will have a formidable net.

On the missile front AAD, S400, Barak 8+ ER, Akash, QRSAM, future XRSAM. That is 4 layers of networked missile air defence. We will be spending more and inducting SAM compared to fighter jets.

Even without considering IAF jets, Paks are looking at a very formidable air defense. :D

Trikaal
BRFite
Posts: 544
Joined: 19 Jul 2017 08:01

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Trikaal » 27 Oct 2018 17:40

nam wrote:
Frequency hopping, multi beam, ability to direct power, algo controlled range etc. Linked to a network we will have a formidable net.

On the missile front AAD, S400, Barak 8+ ER, Akash, QRSAM, future XRSAM. That is 4 layers of networked missile air defence. We will be spending more and inducting SAM compared to fighter jets.

Even without considering IAF jets, Paks are looking at a very formidable air defense. :D

This is actually a very good idea by our defense policy makers. Chances of India fighting an offensive war are astronomically low. As such, it makes more sense to strengthen your shield more than the sword. What we are doing is escalating the cost of attack on our enemy so much that it ceases to be worth the effort to attack us. Aircraft dropped bombs are the cheapest bomb delivery mechanism in a war and a dense IADS makes it unviable. Not to mention the secondary protection we get from missiles but I think the primary aim of this entire exercise is to keep Indian airspace secure.

Lastly, this is being done more with China in mind than Pakis. The fact that it makes life difficult for Pakis is just an additional benefit.

nam
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2349
Joined: 05 Jan 2017 20:48

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby nam » 27 Oct 2018 20:37

Read some gyaan about AESA seeker developments

Japan, as usual were the first to bring out a AESA seeker for their BVRAAM. Brits have formed a deal to get this on to Meteor, to start testing in 2023. With all the bhai-bhai with Japan, we should have jumped in... oh well.

The second to claim are the Russians. The third in line are the Chinese with their PL-XX. Khan must have crossed the line, without letting anyone know.

What is the big deal? First it is KA band AESA! If it behaving how AESA should behave, then you have a seeker, which can send single pulse at different frequencies and multiple beams at different frequencies at the same time!

It is very difficult to create ECM against such a seeker. Your jammer would be seeing reguar frequency hopping and multiple beams at different frequencies. The seeker will be able to track both the jet and any decoys at the same even under heavy noise on certain frequencies. A very deadly weapon.

To jam such a seeker, you need AESA based jammer, which can create noise on a wide band. Khan must already have this kit. Some sharp cutting edge stuff.

Thanks to our investment in AESA, DRDO is atleast working on AESA seeker. We already have Ka band GaAS TRMs. This is a must have if we want to walk the talk with the big boys.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Singha » 27 Oct 2018 21:27

brar sahib will know the intricate details, but usaf is working on two fronts
- a LR AAM that can tackle ac and cruise missiles - called T3 triple target eliminator => replace the aim120C/D
- a small (50% size of amraam) SACM thing designed to HTK inbound large AAMs + act as a wvr aam => use a small cheap agile missile to take out AAMs than rely only on a/c countermeasures to evade...this is a defensive weapon ... large AAMs using boost and dive tactics will follow predictable path centered on the movement of the target a.c to shape their path....the target a.c being the SACM shooter will hence lead the dance and reply back with a shot :D

designed to work with internal carriage from 5th gen platforms, cost and complexity will be on a no-objection basis

in ECM, khan was always the best.

nam
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2349
Joined: 05 Jan 2017 20:48

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby nam » 27 Oct 2018 22:46

Need to double down on getting our X band and KA band GaN TRM and apply our IT vity hordes on some serious DSP programming to get this on our BVRs.

With AESA providing the NxN frequency agility on a given bandwidth, it is all about power supply and software. Hope DRDL ECM programs are going all multi-beam.

Did a quick google on T3 and it looks like the development funds were allocated in 2010.. So there must be a prototype or pre-production examples out there.

Vips
BRFite
Posts: 1699
Joined: 14 Apr 2017 18:23

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Vips » 28 Oct 2018 03:20

Trails before year end of NGARM(New generation anti radiation missile) which will replace the Russian seeker with the indigenously developed one and also the dual pulse propulsion system will be changed to thrust propulsion system.

Vips
BRFite
Posts: 1699
Joined: 14 Apr 2017 18:23

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Vips » 28 Oct 2018 03:36

DRDO gets nod for strategic surveillance system at vantage Rustland Island.

After a delay of six years, Union Environment Ministry has given its approval to Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) to establish infrastructure facilities for strategic surveillance system, including land-based long-range missile facility at South Andaman’s Rustland Island.
At a meeting on September 27, Regional Empowered Committee of Regional Office (South Eastern Zone) of the ministry has recommended for clearance to divert 49.978 acres of forest for the project, which is being conceived at a cost of `1,000 crore.

In 2013, the then Defence Minister AK Antony told the Rajya Sabha that DRDO had proposed to set up a missile test range each at Rutland Island in Andaman and Nicobar Islands and Nagayalanka in Krishna district of Andhra Pradesh.

Defence officials say the project is crucial as Rustland Island is located at a vintage location of about 200 km from the Strait of Malacca that connects Indian Ocean with South China Sea. The standing committee of National Board of Wildlife had already given approval in May last year with conditions, including preparation of marine and terrestrial wildlife conservation plan, placing essential deflectors and anti-radiation screens around satellite antennas, as the proposed area is close to ecologically-sensitive Mahatma Gandhi Marine National Park.

Now with the major hurdle of land acquisition cleared, DRDO will have to obtain environment and coastal regulation zone (CRZ) clearances before commencing the project. The proposal has been cleared at all levels of the Andaman and Nicobar Islands administration.

DRDO has submitted the Environment Impact Assessment study report and joint inspection carried out by DRDO and District Forest Officer of Port Blair. The DFO South Andaman Forest Division has reported that the requirement of forest land for diversion was unavoidable and barest minimum for the project. “To compensate the forest loss, an extent of 100 acres of degraded forest area at Burmachad, Paschimsagar range, Diglipur has been identified for compensatory afforestation” MRG Reddy, Additional PCCF (Central) and Chairperson of REC said.


Only in India we allow things to come to such a pass that paper pushers dictate terms and hold the country to ransom.

ArjunPandit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2483
Joined: 29 Mar 2017 06:37

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby ArjunPandit » 28 Oct 2018 23:48

http://www.oneindia.com/amphtml/india/what-ails-ingenuously-developed-cruise-missile-nirbhay-279
Not much new except a summary. Nirbhay hasn't been heard for long, so thought of stirring

kit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3020
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 18:16

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby kit » 29 Oct 2018 00:13

ArjunPandit wrote:http://www.oneindia.com/amphtml/india/what-ails-ingenuously-developed-cruise-missile-nirbhay-279
Not much new except a summary. Nirbhay hasn't been heard for long, so thought of stirring



looks like quite a few of the "results" are under wraps .. this being a 1000+ km missile can manifest in quite different variants

ArjunPandit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2483
Joined: 29 Mar 2017 06:37

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby ArjunPandit » 29 Oct 2018 00:17

Another problems with it is that under cbm, there's no requirement to disclose cruise missiles

nam
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2349
Joined: 05 Jan 2017 20:48

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby nam » 29 Oct 2018 03:25

DRDL Presentation on HSTDV combustor. DRDO seems to have grasped the fundamentals of scramjet combustion and they are able to kick off combustion even at lower pressure. We now have two source of scramjet skill build up, ISRO & DRDO. Seems have broken the material threshold as well.

He mentions that the first flight of HSTDV is expected at the end of the year. This was in 2017. So far it has not happened, however they have tested the rocket which will hold HSTDV. This indicate we might see the first launch next year.


JTull
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2611
Joined: 18 Jul 2001 11:31

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby JTull » 30 Oct 2018 20:31

Twitter Link

Hemant Kumar Rout

#BREAKING Night Trial of Agni #missile successful. Strategic Forces Command of #IndianArmy test fires nuclear capable ballistic missile Agni-I from Kalam Island off #Odisha coast. @DRDO_India @NewIndianXpress

Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7403
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Indranil » 30 Oct 2018 22:22

ADE is starting to study the interface of UAV (Nishant) with 533 mm torpedo tube. They have issued a tender for the manufacture of the tube.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 52534
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby ramana » 31 Oct 2018 01:18

Kakkarat, Thanks for the pictures.

Need to study them.

At the first look, appears the PG adaptations will give precision and area targets for the SAL and INS/GPS modes respectively.
That means it is Indian Paveway and JDAM kit in same foot print.
Also note toss mode for the PG HSLD from 30km.
Wonder what payload would need that?
I know heavily defended targets need such stand off.
At same time the SAL acquisition range is 4km. (chart 2) i.e means the toss at 30 km is GPS acquired.

The Griffin is for point targets with its laser seeker mode.


Note the twin fuze adapters to ensure it goes of reliably after all that effort.

Do we know what is the casing material for the GP bomb?
I think its low fracture toughness steel like Manganese alloy to shatter easily.
The HSLD has to be high fracture toughness steel as it has to penetrate.
Variety of requirements.

kurup
BRFite
Posts: 124
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 14:22

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby kurup » 31 Oct 2018 12:05

Missile test on Nov 03/04 , Range ~ 350 km , Entire warning area over BoB ,

Image

https://twitter.com/kurup89/status/1057515904513331201

Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10776
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Aditya_V » 31 Oct 2018 12:16

Looks like an official Prithvi 2 test coming up after Agni 1 test yesterday which these days gets ignored on BRF

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9917
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby sum » 31 Oct 2018 12:32

Was praying it would have been the Nirbhay

Chinmay
BRFite
Posts: 187
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 07:25

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Chinmay » 31 Oct 2018 18:11

LRSAM for Indian Navy

IAI will provide $777 million worth of Barak 8 missile defense systems, known as LRSAM in India, for seven ships.The contract to outfit the ships with missile defense systems is with Bharat Electronics Limited. The contract builds on $2.5 billion in deals signed last year, including for the delivery of the first Barak 8 missile manufactured in India as part of an IAI collaboration. It will take up to several years to install the latest system.

mody
BRFite
Posts: 503
Joined: 18 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Mumbai, India

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby mody » 31 Oct 2018 19:03

Chinmay wrote:LRSAM for Indian Navy

IAI will provide $777 million worth of Barak 8 missile defense systems, known as LRSAM in India, for seven ships.The contract to outfit the ships with missile defense systems is with Bharat Electronics Limited. The contract builds on $2.5 billion in deals signed last year, including for the delivery of the first Barak 8 missile manufactured in India as part of an IAI collaboration. It will take up to several years to install the latest system.


The LRSAM deal is for the P17A frigates, currently under production. However, the frigates are atleast 4-5 years away from start of delivery. The contracts for the P15B destroyers was signed earlier.

the SkyCapture system for the Army seems interesting. Had never heard of such a program. Any more details on this would be welcome.

Trikaal
BRFite
Posts: 544
Joined: 19 Jul 2017 08:01

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Trikaal » 31 Oct 2018 20:35

mody wrote:
The LRSAM deal is for the P17A frigates, currently under production. However, the frigates are atleast 4-5 years away from start of delivery. The contracts for the P15B destroyers was signed earlier.

the SkyCapture system for the Army seems interesting. Had never heard of such a program. Any more details on this would be welcome.


This is from "Times of Israel"
Sky Capture is a command and control platform, which transforms the customer’s existing air defense systems into “highly accurate and effective”ones, with advanced command and control capabilities as well as information based on multiple sensors, including advanced fire control and detection radars, electro-optical sensors all made by IAI and its subsidiary ELTA Systems.


The command and control system provides accurate target data for the interceptors and manages the threat and firing detection in an optimal manner, based on the target type, IAI said in a statement


So it seems like a command centre system with radars which can provide guidance to any local missile mated with it. This is being bought most likely to provide air defense for tier 2 cities at a cheaper cost. Most likely prithvi missiles will be mated with this.

Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4274
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Kartik » 01 Nov 2018 02:11

Deputy Russian PM- Russia and India inked S-400 deal in rubles

link

HAVANA, October 31. /TASS/. The contract on supplying Russia’s S-400 missile systems to India has been signed in rubles, Russian Deputy Prime Minister Yuri Borisov said on Wednesday.

"The contract has been signed in rubles," Borisov said.

Earlier reports said Russia would switch to settlements in national currencies instead of the dollar with its partners in military and technical cooperation.

..

Kakarat
BRFite
Posts: 1779
Joined: 26 Jan 2005 13:59

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Kakarat » 01 Nov 2018 11:36

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1057870654366638085
So, @DRDO_India has released some details of the new man-portable anti-tank guided missile (MPATGM) that is under development. It has a dual-thrust rocket motor which allows it engage targets in top-attack mode up to 2.5 km away. Image and info courtesy: DRDO

Image

More Details https://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/pub/newsle ... Nov_18.pdf

srin
BRFite
Posts: 1727
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:13

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby srin » 01 Nov 2018 18:46

Trikaal wrote:This is from "Times of Israel"
Sky Capture is a command and control platform, which transforms the customer’s existing air defense systems into “highly accurate and effective”ones, with advanced command and control capabilities as well as information based on multiple sensors, including advanced fire control and detection radars, electro-optical sensors all made by IAI and its subsidiary ELTA Systems.


The command and control system provides accurate target data for the interceptors and manages the threat and firing detection in an optimal manner, based on the target type, IAI said in a statement


So it seems like a command centre system with radars which can provide guidance to any local missile mated with it. This is being bought most likely to provide air defense for tier 2 cities at a cheaper cost. Most likely prithvi missiles will be mated with this.


The report says this is for the Army, so I suspect this is for air defense of moving formations equipped with Akash and maybe Spyder ?

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23315
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby Austin » 03 Nov 2018 12:58

Interesting possibility for S-400 system if one considers Range and Altitude of interception of 40N6 missile

40N6 Interceptor : Qualitative Leap forward in Air Defense

nam
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2349
Joined: 05 Jan 2017 20:48

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby nam » 03 Nov 2018 14:50

S400 is giving us a template of creating a mobile, long radar tracking and intercepting SAM. I am sure IAF would ask for integrating it within it's network. I so would like to see S400 SAM's been cued by SU30- using it's BARS and datalink.

Once S400 is "inside" IAF's network, it will not be easy to know if there is a S400 radar out there, as a S band emission could be of any source.. even AWACS!

The more I look at QRSAM, it is the format of our XRSAM. It has TCR, BSR, BMFR & FCR, along with QRSAM. So fundamentally our XRSAM will be all of these but longer ranged Radar and longer ranged SAM. QRSAM already has tracking in motion... imagine this applies on a 200KM radar + SAM! .It will always be mobile( dependent on the power source ofcourse)!

We are truly going places with Radar & SAMs

nam
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2349
Joined: 05 Jan 2017 20:48

Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - May 2017

Postby nam » 03 Nov 2018 15:01

Another aspect of such LRSAM is it's tracking by S(or may be C) band. When your jet is been tracked by a S band radar at long distance, you may think there isn't a SAM/BVR coming at you. For BVR it will be a X band.

In case of S400, there will be a SAM even at S band. Since lot of IAF ground based radars will be S band.. you wouldn't know which one will be shooting out a SAM !


Return to “Trash Can Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 21 guests