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GSLV-Mk III launch program/post-launch analysis

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disha
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Re: GSLV-Mk III launch program/post-launch analysis

Postby disha » 12 Jun 2017 11:08

^^ From the same link., check out the GSLV Mk II launch manifest - indicates at least 2 launches per year for the next 5 years to just catch up with the proposed plan 5 years back!

I think demise of GSLV Mk II are premature.

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Re: GSLV-Mk III launch program/post-launch analysis

Postby ldev » 12 Jun 2017 17:51

nirav wrote:You apprantely have no clue where the first and second stages of the GSLV mk2 and mk3 end up landing. Then you engage in eye ball mk1 calculation of distance of where it might land,seen from Chennai,hence not far.

Compare this to the direct quote that I posted of S.Ramakrishnan who is ex director of VSCC who mentioned launch constraints of the first and second stages of the GSLV to avoid Malaysia and Indonesia,necesitating a 50% effort needed from the top Cryo stage.

Now,who do you think is whining?






SSSalvi wrote:There was some reference to the place where the rocket spent stages would fall.
Here is an extract from NOTAM indicating danger zones during this launch:

A. DNG ZONE -1 IS A CIRCLE OF 10NM AROUND THE LAUNCHER
B. DNG ZONE -2 IS A RECTANGULAR AREA BOUNDED BY:
1230N 08240E 1315N 08250E 1245N 08410E
1200N 08400E
C. DNG ZONE -3 IS A RECTANGULAR AREA BOUNDED BY:
1130N 08515E 1220N 08525E 1155N 08645E
1105N 08635E
D. DNG ZONE -4 IS A RECTANGULAR AREA BOUNDED BY:
0810N 09420E 0900N 09440E 0825N 09615E
0735N 09555E
Sketch of these zones:

Image


Quote by Mark Twain:

“It's better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt”

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Re: GSLV-Mk III launch program/post-launch analysis

Postby ldev » 12 Jun 2017 18:10

For comparison in a two stage to orbit launch such as the Falcon 9 from SpaceX, the notams are:

For the 1st stage
Image

and note that for the 2nd stage, the reentry is in the southern Indian Ocean, off south west Australia, literally on the other side of the world. This was for the LEO CRS-3 launch when SpaceX attempted an experimental soft landing for the 2nd stage to recover it for potential re-use.
Image

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Re: GSLV-Mk III launch program/post-launch analysis

Postby Indranil » 13 Jun 2017 00:39

Does anybody know what happened of the PSLV-HP version?

disha
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Re: GSLV-Mk III launch program/post-launch analysis

Postby disha » 13 Jun 2017 01:39

^ It never materialized.

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Re: GSLV-Mk III launch program/post-launch analysis

Postby disha » 13 Jun 2017 02:01

GSAT-19 updates from ISRO website., my notes below the updates:

Orbit Determination results from this LAM firing are:

apogee X perigee height was changed to 35869 km X 35470 km.
Inclination is 0.101 deg.
Orbital period is 23 hr 50 min 10 sec

Archive of Updates from ISRO

Jun 10, 2017 West and East reflectors of GSAT-19 have been successfully deployed by 18:47 hr IST. Three axis stabilisation of GSAT-19 has been achieved by 19:42 hr IST
Jun 10, 2017 South and North solar arrays of GSAT-19 have been successfully deployed by 16:15 hr IST
Jun 10, 2017 The fourth and final orbit raising operation of GSAT-19 Satellite has been successfully carried out by LAM Engine firing for 488 sec from 07:59 hr IST on June 10, 2017
Jun 10, 2017 The third orbit raising operation of GSAT-19 Satellite has been successfully carried out by LAM Engine firing for 3469 sec from 09:55 hr IST on June 09, 2017
Jun 08, 2017 The second orbit raising operation of GSAT-19 Satellite has been successfully carried out by LAM Engine firing for 5538 sec from 15:44 hr IST on June 07, 2017.
Jun 08, 2017 The first orbit raising operation of GSAT-19 Satellite has been successfully carried out by LAM Engine firing for 116 sec from 14:03 hr IST on June 06, 2017.

Notes:

In the Nasa pakdef forum., there was this rona-dhona about "shortfall of orbit of GSAT19 by GSLV Mk III" which was a shortfall of some 15 m/sec (the engine was cutoff early). This is equivalent of 440 N LAM engine firing for 10 seconds more to cover for the shortfall (or rather., the cryo stage was cut-off 1/50th of a second too soon).

Now look at the LAM firing times above: 488+3469+5538+116 = 9611 secs. Basically., an additional 10 secs of LAM firing is 1/100th or 0.01 fraction of overall LAM firings. In other words IMHO., GSLV Mk III is 99.99% accurate when throwing some 4000 kg. payload 34000 km away.

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Re: GSLV-Mk III launch program/post-launch analysis

Postby Vivek K » 13 Jun 2017 03:34

Well put disha!!

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Re: GSLV-Mk III launch program/post-launch analysis

Postby Amber G. » 13 Jun 2017 04:32

shiv wrote:Do all launches "appear" to go SouthEast because of westward rotation of the earth? If that is correct - ....

To add to Sri-Kumar..
To launch a rocket for equatorial orbit (geo-synchronous type sats) one likes to choose a point as close to equator and launch is done towards East direction ( eastern shores are thus nice locations as there is ocean towards east). This way you use the initial earth's spin velocity to max effect. For polar orbits, the direction can be north or south and the earth-spin velocity is not that helpful.

For sonic boom (or calculation of path where air-resistance is not negligible) you need the "sound velocity wrt to air".
So it may be easy to have spinning earth as reference point (and add centrifugal force and coriolis in addition to air resistance and gravity in your equation) to do the calculations.. for orbit calculations it is easy to use non-spinning earth as reference point.

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Re: GSLV-Mk III launch program/post-launch analysis

Postby rrao » 13 Jun 2017 13:26

dishaji!!! n2yo data of GSAT19 orbital parameters are not matching with ISRO data...may be n2yo might have not updated!!!!!

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Re: GSLV-Mk III launch program/post-launch analysis

Postby disha » 13 Jun 2017 20:13

Why do we even trust n2yo?

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Re: GSLV-Mk III launch program/post-launch analysis

Postby prasannasimha » 13 Jun 2017 20:50

http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/2017/jun/13/isro-to-flight-test-kerosene-based-semi-cryogenic-engine-by-2021-1615979.html

ISRO to flight-test kerosene-based semi-cryogenic engine by 2021
By Express News Service | Published: 13th June 2017 01:32 AM |
Last Updated: 13th June 2017 02:16 PM | A+A A- |

ISRO successfully launched a record 104 satellites including India's earth observation satellite on-board PSLV-C37/Cartosat2. | PTI ISRO's PSLV-C37/Cartosat2. | PTI File Image
THIRUVANANTHAPURAM: If things go as planned, the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) will flight-test the semi-cryogenic engine, which uses refined kerosene as propellant, by 2021.

With the success of the Geosynchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle Mk-III (GSLV Mk-III), ISRO’s Liquid Propulsion Systems Centre (LPSC) here at Valiyamala is now focusing on the next level - the development of the much-delayed semi-cryogenic technology.

Unlike the cryogenic engine which uses a combination of liquid hydrogen (LH2) and liquid oxygen (LOX) as propellant, the semi-cryogenic engine replaces liquid hydrogen with refined kerosene (Isrosene as ISRO calls it). LOX will be retained as oxidiser.

"Various tests are in progress on the engine. Of the four turbo pumps in it, three have undergone tests at the ISRO Propulsion Complex, Mahendragiri. We plan to have the engine ready by 2019 end, the stage by 2020-end and the first flight by 2021,’’ S Somanath, director, LPSC, said.

LPSC had developed the cryogenic engine for the GSLV Mk-II and the much powerful one for the GSLV Mk-III. The idea is to replace the second stage of the GSLV Mk-III, which now uses a liquid stage, with the semi-cryo. The rocket will retain the cryogenic upper, third stage.

The advantage of inducting the semi-cryogenic stage is the payload capacity of the GSLV Mk-III will increase from four tonnes to six tonnes. Using refined kerosene as fuel has quite a few advantages: It is eco-friendly and cost-effective.

Also, unlike liquid hydrogen - which has to be stored at (-)253 degree Celsius, it is stable at normal temperature. The Union Cabinet had cleared the semi-cryogenic engine project in 2008 at an estimated cost of Rs 1798 crore. Although the idea was to develop the technology 2014, the project got delayed.

Fingers crossed

Semi-cryogenic engine uses refined kerosene as propellant

It’s eco-friendly and cheaper

The Union Cabinet had cleared the project in 2008

ISRO hopes to flight-test it in 2021

Engine to be ready by 2019-end

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Re: GSLV-Mk III launch program/post-launch analysis

Postby prasannasimha » 13 Jun 2017 20:52

looks like they are not oing to use Russian facilities to test the engine

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Re: GSLV-Mk III launch program/post-launch analysis

Postby disha » 13 Jun 2017 22:41

^^ I always felt that news of "ukranian" help or "russian test facilities" for semi-cryo for ISRO were plants. That is., fake news.

A agency that has developed two tech pathways to cryo engines (staged combustion and gas generator) and as a country have great chemical engineers and great oil refining facilities going for outside help now always sounded implausible.

vis

Re: GSLV-Mk III launch program/post-launch analysis

Postby vis » 13 Jun 2017 22:42

rrao wrote:dishaji!!! n2yo data of GSAT19 orbital parameters are not matching with ISRO data...may be n2yo might have not updated!!!!!

disha wrote:Why do we even trust n2yo?


There is only a single public original satellite tracking data source in existence. That is USAF JSpOC via space-track.org. All other sources like n2yo take data from space-track.

JSpOC doesn't update the data for every object every day. They generally only care about debris and only debris content is autotracked everyday. Controlled satellites are only reviewed occasionally. There is no preset timeline for TLE updates from JSpOC. You have to wait till you get it.

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Re: GSLV-Mk III launch program/post-launch analysis

Postby RonyKJ » 13 Jun 2017 22:45

I agree. It seemed ridiculous to me that we couldn't refine kerosene to the level required or not be able to modify or create new test facilities to test the semi-cryo engine after we had mastered handling liquid hydrogen.

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Re: GSLV-Mk III launch program/post-launch analysis

Postby disha » 13 Jun 2017 22:56

SSSalvi wrote:There was some reference to the place where the rocket spent stages would fall.
Here is an extract from NOTAM indicating danger zones during this launch:

A. DNG ZONE -1 IS A CIRCLE OF 10NM AROUND THE LAUNCHER
B. DNG ZONE -2 IS A RECTANGULAR AREA BOUNDED BY:
1230N 08240E 1315N 08250E 1245N 08410E
1200N 08400E
C. DNG ZONE -3 IS A RECTANGULAR AREA BOUNDED BY:
1130N 08515E 1220N 08525E 1155N 08645E
1105N 08635E
D. DNG ZONE -4 IS A RECTANGULAR AREA BOUNDED BY:
0810N 09420E 0900N 09440E 0825N 09615E
0735N 09555E
Sketch of these zones:

Image


The last DNG ZONE -4 is off great nicobar., and very near thailand and indonesia.

I sometimes wonder what happens if the separation bolts do not go off., the second stage carries the two boosters and then separates at its cut-off point., the entire 1st stage (boosters) and the second stage will be a aerodynamic "missile" - reentering and not burning up and may end up in the EEZ of a another nation!

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Re: GSLV-Mk III launch program/post-launch analysis

Postby juvva » 14 Jun 2017 12:32

^I guess the range safety officer would do the needful ....

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Re: GSLV-Mk III launch program/post-launch analysis

Postby nirav » 14 Jun 2017 12:38

ldev wrote:
nirav wrote:You apprantely have no clue where the first and second stages of the GSLV mk2 and mk3 end up landing. Then you engage in eye ball mk1 calculation of distance of where it might land,seen from Chennai,hence not far.

Compare this to the direct quote that I posted of S.Ramakrishnan who is ex director of VSCC who mentioned launch constraints of the first and second stages of the GSLV to avoid Malaysia and Indonesia,necesitating a 50% effort needed from the top Cryo stage.

Now,who do you think is whining?






SSSalvi wrote:There was some reference to the place where the rocket spent stages would fall.
Here is an extract from NOTAM indicating danger zones during this launch:

A. DNG ZONE -1 IS A CIRCLE OF 10NM AROUND THE LAUNCHER
B. DNG ZONE -2 IS A RECTANGULAR AREA BOUNDED BY:
1230N 08240E 1315N 08250E 1245N 08410E
1200N 08400E
C. DNG ZONE -3 IS A RECTANGULAR AREA BOUNDED BY:
1130N 08515E 1220N 08525E 1155N 08645E
1105N 08635E
D. DNG ZONE -4 IS A RECTANGULAR AREA BOUNDED BY:
0810N 09420E 0900N 09440E 0825N 09615E
0735N 09555E
Sketch of these zones:

Image


Quote by Mark Twain:

“It's better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt”


Are you serious? x4.

First you jump into something which you have no idea of.Refer to a quote from the project director of VSCC and the resultant post as whining, and post the mark Twain quote.

Quit making a fool of your own self please.

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Re: GSLV-Mk III launch program/post-launch analysis

Postby nirav » 14 Jun 2017 12:45

vina wrote:shock:


Lol.
None of your flights of fancy spreadsheet rockets solved for where the stages would land.

When the idiocity is pointed out, you engage in classic obfuscation and your ridiculous qna.

I recall your posts on vix and how you in your God complex mode pompuosly made a statement on the market.

Just because no one reacted either cause no one was aware of maybe not interested let's you get away with half baked stuff.

Not @ the spreadsheet rocketry though.
You could bah pah all you want. Doesn't change a bit that the whole exercise was nothing but amateurish buffoonery.
In hindi it's called - baap Ko (fill in the blank) sikhana.
Baap = ISRO.

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Re: GSLV-Mk III launch program/post-launch analysis

Postby mridulmm » 14 Jun 2017 15:49

^^^
S...L...O...W . . . . C...L...A...P...P...I...N...G

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Re: GSLV-Mk III launch program/post-launch analysis

Postby disha » 14 Jun 2017 21:21

juvva wrote:^I guess the range safety officer would do the needful ....


How will the range safety officer know that the solid boosters have not detached in spite of the command given to the separation bolts to fire? This will show up as under-performing second stage., but the rest of the telemetry will be stating that the engine is performing as normal! So engine is performing normal and stage is underperforming., the range safety officer then has to decide between destroying the rocket or letting it continue., since 3rd stage may compensate and the LAM may compensate as well.

But again., all of this is not left to chance and to the last day. Several such calculations go into designing a launch vehicle to ascertain within limits what happens when failure conditions arise. This calculation *is* rocket science.

For example., launching 104 sats in one-go required 5000 variables to be permuted! This is something other launch agencies do not have. And all this calculations are performed and some are drawn up as requirements even before the rocket is designed!!

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Re: GSLV-Mk III launch program/post-launch analysis

Postby disha » 14 Jun 2017 21:22

mridulmm wrote:^^^ S...L...O...W . . . . C...L...A...P...P...I...N...G


And sir., your point is?

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Re: GSLV-Mk III launch program/post-launch analysis

Postby disha » 14 Jun 2017 21:25

Mods. My recommendation now is to close this thread.

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Re: GSLV-Mk III launch program/post-launch analysis

Postby mridulmm » 14 Jun 2017 22:22

disha wrote:
mridulmm wrote:^^^ S...L...O...W . . . . C...L...A...P...P...I...N...G


And sir., your point is?

Being speechless at stretching a discussion in non-sensical direction.

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Re: GSLV-Mk III launch program/post-launch analysis

Postby ramana » 15 Jun 2017 00:29

Thread closed based on consensus. Can continue is Space thread....


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