LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

[JayS]

Incorrect numbers. NLCA MK2 is targeted to have 16.5 ton of MTOW. AF version should have similar number. Internal fuel should be 3000+ kg I think. Thrust numbers are also off.

Anyway, by whose yardstick F16 and Gripen in LCA category..? Definitely not by IAF's..

I do not remeber IAF saying LCA has a different category to F 16 or Grippen?

Maafi deejay saar, if it didn't came out right. It was a comment made in jest, not to mock IAF but the person who put the variety of fighters in "Light" category, that too with wrong numbers. I used IAF, merely because obviously this is a comparison for LCA, which is for IAF.

[deejay]

^^^No no no. I did not respond with any challenge. I am genuinely searching for IAF light, medium and heavy classification and was hoping some data would come. I guess I did not come out correct. Sorry.

[shiv]

^^^No no no. I did not respond with any challenge. I am genuinely searching for IAF light, medium and heavy classification and was hoping some data would come. I guess I did not come out correct. Sorry.

Maybe not IAF "officially" but here is ACM Raha saying that Su 30= heavy, Rafale=medium and LCA=light
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8skV2Do9Ms

[deejay]

^^^ Thank you but it still leaves the issue vague as in where light ends and medium begins. I do know that heavy starts at 30 tons.

[JayS]

^^^ Thank you but it still leaves the issue vague as in where light ends and medium begins. I do know that heavy starts at 30 tons.

Even I have been under the impression that Medium was to keep Su-30 out of the competition, and the weight classification was rather arbitrary. I guess only way to confirm with 100% surety is to see the MMRCA RFP.

[Bhaskar_T]

SP3 flew on 28th Sept 2016
SP4 flew on 3rd March 2017 (after 5 months)
SP6 flew on 1st July 2017 (after 5 months)
SP5 has been always coming tomorrow (like FOC certification).

There were reports that SP5 is coming from the same secondary/additional Tejas assembly line (Kiran Hanger) from where the SP6 came from. So, why the primary assembly line hasn't delivered at least one more SP yet?

As per below report from Anantha Krishnan in Feb 2017, HAL was awaiting approval of 3rd Tejas production line from CCS, whether this approval came through?

Any updates on what's happening at Sulur or Thanjavur airbases with readiness to host Tejas squadrons?

http://english.mathrubhumi.com/news/ind ... -1.1700394

[Indranil]

SP 5 will come up for ground runs by the end of the month. SP6 is from the second line not, not SP-5. Right now there are two lines. The second line is much slower than first. By the third-fourth quarter of 2018, both lines will be at full speed (8 aircraft per year per line). For this year, even if they deliver SP7 and SP5, they would have met their objective of 6 aircraft for the calendar year. By the end of next year, that number would have climbed to above 8.

Another great news is that ADA and HAL have been told to work together on Mk2. This is excellent. Jay, I know that you especially would be happy to know this. This is will allow the manufacturing feedback to flow back to the design.

One sad thing though is that LCA Navy is under real jeopardy now. This was shocking to me. The people I talked to where also in shock. They did not expect this turn. Some of them told me that the Karnad story was not out of the air. But, I still maintain that it should not have been written.

[Zynda]

Another great news is that ADA and HAL have been told to work together on Mk2. This is excellent.

This is indeed good news. Now, will ADA be looking to ramp up their engineering resources for Mk.2?

[Indranil]

Updates:

1. The supersonic tanks and the 800 ltr tanks are coming up for various tests by the end of the year before actual flight testing.
2. The lowest speed for LCA Mk1 is below the 120 knots that has been put up on that chart. They are regularly flying below that number now. Don't ask further, won't tell.
3. The AUW for the LCA AF Mk2 in that chart is approximately correct.
4. The climb rate of LCA is wrong. Don't ask further, won't tell.
5. The (unrefueled) ferry range is currently not 3000 kms, but they are going to plumb the midboard pylons as well. You are speaking of 4000 ltrs of extra fuel. At that point 3000 kms will be.
6. Note the maximum payload of Mk1. It is not exactly 4000 kg, but pretty close.
7. The uninstalled thrust on Mk1, Mk2 and the Gripen are all wrong.
8. Mk2 is going to +9G capable.

And now wait for IDRW to copy this list with pictures .

[Indranil]

Another great news is that ADA and HAL have been told to work together on Mk2. This is excellent.

This is indeed good news. Now, will ADA be looking to ramp up their engineering resources for Mk.2?

I know my next comment is going to be questioned. But I am relaying what I heard from my friends who are obviously a small sample.

ME: what are you guys doing in terms of "lobbying" in MOD.
FRIENDS: Frankly, not much. We are not good at marketing.
ME: But, you should! Look at SAAB. This govt. is pro desi products
FRIENDS: Don't know. AS long as there is Ambani and Adani ....

[Cybaru]

Which version of mk2 is moving forward? I think they should do only one version and it should be 1 meter plug version.

[Indranil]

0.5 mtr. Navy version is in limbo. Ahuja sahab is obviously not very popular in ADA right now. Apparently, even LCA Navy MK1 testing has dried up for lack of funds till a decision is taken.

[Khalsa]

Updates:

1. The supersonic tanks and the 800 ltr tanks are coming up for various tests by the end of the year before actual flight testing.
2. The lowest speed for LCA Mk1 is below the 120 knots that has been put up on that chart. They are regularly flying below that number now. Don't ask further, won't tell.
3. The AUW for the LCA AF Mk2 in that chart is approximately correct.
4. The climb rate of LCA is wrong. Don't ask further, won't tell.
5. The (unrefueled) ferry range is currently not 3000 kms, but they are going to plumb the midboard pylons as well. You are speaking of 4000 ltrs of extra fuel. At that point 3000 kms will be.
6. Note the maximum payload of Mk1. It is not exactly 4000 kg, but pretty close.
7. The uninstalled thrust on Mk1, Mk2 and the Gripen are all wrong.
8. Mk2 is going to +9G capable.

And now wait for IDRW to copy this list with pictures .

You should perhaps put something fishy in there

[Kartik]

Thanks for all the updates Indranil.

[Cybaru]

0.5 mtr. Navy version is in limbo. Ahuja sahab is obviously not very popular in ADA right now. Apparently, even LCA Navy MK1 testing has dried up for lack of funds till a decision is taken.

Thanks for sharing. That sucks, hopefully this dude gets demoted or moved on to something else and life moves on to the 1 meter plug. That's the only one we should be working on not two Mk-2s. Redo the landing gear of the Mk2 and give it to airforce keeping everything else same if possible. The 1 meter plug allows it to work for both AF/NAVY. Otherwise the navy will out of luck later.

[tsarkar]

Updates:

1. The supersonic tanks and the 800 ltr tanks are coming up for various tests by the end of the year before actual flight testing.
2. The lowest speed for LCA Mk1 is below the 120 knots that has been put up on that chart. They are regularly flying below that number now. Don't ask further, won't tell.
3. The AUW for the LCA AF Mk2 in that chart is approximately correct.
4. The climb rate of LCA is wrong. Don't ask further, won't tell.
5. The (unrefueled) ferry range is currently not 3000 kms, but they are going to plumb the midboard pylons as well. You are speaking of 4000 ltrs of extra fuel. At that point 3000 kms will be.
6. Note the maximum payload of Mk1. It is not exactly 4000 kg, but pretty close.
7. The uninstalled thrust on Mk1, Mk2 and the Gripen are all wrong.
8. Mk2 is going to +9G capable.

And now wait for IDRW to copy this list with pictures .

Introduce an error deliberately. If they pick it up, then you can serve them a legal notice. This is how counter intelligence works. It doesnt matter how or where you post your content, plagiarism of any sort is punishable by law. Copyright Act, 1957, and subsequent amendments provides adequate safeguards.

In WW2, the US sent an open radio signal stating there was a problem in water filtration plant at Midway Island and it was facing a water shortage. Japanese picked it up and intercepted messages reflected this fake information. That is how US knew way ahead Japanese planned to attack Midway.

I cant reply to your email - the reply feature isnt there.

[Indranil]

mail me at indranilr at gmale daat kaum

[samirdiw]

Seems a bit weird that the IAF classifies fighter aircraft in terms of weight. Is there any other air force that does the same?

Maybe part of HAL's problems with building the teeniest, smallest, lightest, weeniest aircraft stems from this - although this type of IAF classification might be a much newer thing or not.

Shouldn't the IAF classify the fighters into capabilities instead? i.e. A-B T/W, B-C Range, C-D Payload etc, D-E Rate of climb etc. Where are these mentioned if that is the case? The weights will automatically sort itself out this way instead of the other way around.

Different countries have different needs according to their geography and the need for the capabilities differ according to that. e.g. Sweden needed a plane that could land on roads as well as quick turnaround between missions but the distance was not a problem while Russia asked their scientists for birds with long legs which led to the Sukhoi -27 families. China air force refused JF-17 for J-10 for the same reason (legs) among other things.

IAF really shouldn't be specifying 404 or 414 engine. Let the designers decide what can meet the needs according to the capabilities requested.

What capabilities does IAF need? These really shouldn't be a secret.

[shiv]

Seems a bit weird that the IAF classifies fighter aircraft in terms of weight. Is there any other air force that does the same?

Although ACM Raha was forced to explain I think this heavy, medium lite was a media creation that had its birth in our HAL/DRDO penchant for making "light this" and Light that". Light Combat Aircraft. Light Comat Helo. Advanced Light Helo. everything Indian had to be lightweight

Then - somewhere along the way the Su 30s came along and India had a short but great "interim period' when we had Su 30s, Jags, M2K MiG 27 and MiG 21.

Then the MiG 21 and 27s started going. The MiG 21s were going to be replaced by LCA and the MMRCA saga was then started. That really set off this classification because

Everyone agrees Su 30 is "heavy"

LCA is "light" by definition

What comes in between is "medium" as defined by MMRCA

But the heavy/Medium"light was a media creation with our media defence experts writing article saying that "All air forces have this heavy-medium-light" mix". I laughed and pointed out this bullshit very early on - but it has now become "gyan"

[Bala Vignesh]

0.5 mtr. Navy version is in limbo. Ahuja sahab is obviously not very popular in ADA right now. Apparently, even LCA Navy MK1 testing has dried up for lack of funds till a decision is taken.

Kind of true, in fact based on what my paanwalla says to me, the funding for the entire project (NLCA and Tejas) is on hold for FOC with a deadline of 2017 end to start of 2018(no confirmation on this).

Although I can see a heightened tempo of operations with the Tejas taking to the air at least 3-4 times a day consistently for the last month or so.

[Karan M]

The light heavy medium classification is mentioned by IAF representative in official records. Its not just a DDM classification...

[Rakesh]

Was this ever posted?

HAL faces order crunch
http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp ... 653964.ece

If private hardware suppliers keep up the pace and deliver the LCA’s main systems, HAL can deliver 24 of the light fighters in a year, he said.

Unless I read this wrong, I am assuming the HAL chief means 24 starting from 2018 onwards. I am using that as a starting point for Tejas production.

[Cosmo_R]

They have 30 years of MRO for existing a/c. Decline in peace

[Cosmo_R]

..

...

But the heavy/Medium"light was a media creation with our media defence experts writing article saying that "All air forces have this heavy-medium-light" mix". I laughed and pointed out this bullshit very early on - but it has now become "gyan"

I think they should 'rejugger' in terms of cup sizes . Will make about as much sense.

[Aditya_V]

I think we will take the easy way out order some more Su-30 super Sukhoi's and then possibly FGFA to keept he existing Su lines going while we slowly order the LCA's.

[ashishvikas]

No. of flights successfully completed by LCA - Tejas :

• 3562th flight on 13th Sep
TD1 : 233 PV1: 245 PV3: 387 LSP1: 74 LSP3:330 LSP5: 352
TD2 : 305 PV2: 222 PV5: 179 LSP2: 314 LSP4: 303 LSP7: 194
NP1: 73 LSP8 : 191 PV6:105 NP2: 55

• 3538th flight on 31st Aug
TD1 : 233 PV1: 245 PV3: 387 LSP1: 74 LSP3:328 LSP5: 352
TD2 : 305 PV2: 222 PV5: 173 LSP2: 314 LSP4: 301 LSP7: 189
NP1: 73 LSP8 : 182 PV6:105 NP2: 55

• 3496th flight on 31st July
TD1 : 233 PV1: 245 PV3: 387 LSP1: 74 LSP3:326 LSP5: 352
TD2 : 305 PV2: 222 PV5: 165 LSP2: 314 LSP4: 290 LSP7: 179
NP1: 73 LSP8 : 171 PV6:105 NP2: 55

[Indranil]

They are roughly finishing two test flights per day!

NP1 and 2 are not flying as my friends had told me

[nash]

LSP-7 is in use for IFR testing, if I am not wrong.

May be we can hear some positive news on that front.

[ashishvikas]

LSP-7 is in use for IFR testing, if I am not wrong.

May be we can hear some positive news on that front.

LSp-7 - GUN
LSp-8 - IFR

[Kartik]

No. of flights successfully completed by LCA - Tejas :

• 3562th flight on 13th Sep
TD1 : 233 PV1: 245 PV3: 387 LSP1: 74 LSP3:330 LSP5: 352
TD2 : 305 PV2: 222 PV5: 179 LSP2: 314 LSP4: 303 LSP7: 194
NP1: 73 LSP8 : 191 PV6:105 NP2: 55

• 3538th flight on 31st Aug
TD1 : 233 PV1: 245 PV3: 387 LSP1: 74 LSP3:328 LSP5: 352
TD2 : 305 PV2: 222 PV5: 173 LSP2: 314 LSP4: 301 LSP7: 189
NP1: 73 LSP8 : 182 PV6:105 NP2: 55

• 3496th flight on 31st July
TD1 : 233 PV1: 245 PV3: 387 LSP1: 74 LSP3:326 LSP5: 352
TD2 : 305 PV2: 222 PV5: 165 LSP2: 314 LSP4: 290 LSP7: 179
NP1: 73 LSP8 : 171 PV6:105 NP2: 55

One caveat needs to be added to this- these are just the number of test flights being conducted by the prototypes. the in service squadron airplanes' flight numbers are not included here. The total Tejas fleet flight count will be higher now thanks to No.45 squadron.

[ramana]

It's the prototypes that count towards the total flight hours for the program.

[JayS]

No. of flights successfully completed by LCA - Tejas :

• 3562th flight on 13th Sep
TD1 : 233 PV1: 245 PV3: 387 LSP1: 74 LSP3:330 LSP5: 352
TD2 : 305 PV2: 222 PV5: 179 LSP2: 314 LSP4: 303 LSP7: 194
NP1: 73 LSP8 : 191 PV6:105 NP2: 55

• 3538th flight on 31st Aug
TD1 : 233 PV1: 245 PV3: 387 LSP1: 74 LSP3:328 LSP5: 352
TD2 : 305 PV2: 222 PV5: 173 LSP2: 314 LSP4: 301 LSP7: 189
NP1: 73 LSP8 : 182 PV6:105 NP2: 55

• 3496th flight on 31st July
TD1 : 233 PV1: 245 PV3: 387 LSP1: 74 LSP3:326 LSP5: 352
TD2 : 305 PV2: 222 PV5: 165 LSP2: 314 LSP4: 290 LSP7: 179
NP1: 73 LSP8 : 171 PV6:105 NP2: 55

One caveat needs to be added to this- these are just the number of test flights being conducted by the prototypes. the in service squadron airplanes' flight numbers are not included here. The total Tejas fleet flight count will be higher now thanks to No.45 squadron.

Would be good to know how many flights Sq 45 have done so far.

[SaiK]

please tell, who is not playing well? or what is the game?

‘Far-fetched vision’: India’s futuristic light combat aircraft overshadowed by predecessor

[Marten]

please tell, who is not playing well? or what is the game?

‘Far-fetched vision’: India’s futuristic light combat aircraft overshadowed by predecessor

Please stop quoting Vivek Raghuvanshi on this thread. Start a blog and write your posts on his views and that of Rahul Bedi. But please spare this thread and us.

[Kakarat]

Livefist‏@livefist

NEWSBREAK: @byMBDA in 'advanced discussions' on integration of ASRAAM on LCA Tejas against Python-5. Detailed report coming up.

[KBDagha]

Excellent Video about Tejas! Great to hear directly from Sq. 45 pilots about its superior capabilities.
https://www.facebook.com/plugins/video. ... 747621%2F&

[suryag]

what a video sirjee, sp2,3,4 seen in this video.

[Aditya_V]

Regarding the IAF now going in for Asraam instead of Python V, the Python V is around 16KG heavier than the Asraam, earlier there were reports that there was a shudder in certain AOA when carrying the Python V, but does that make sense since the AA-11 R-73, fired a dozen times by LCA weighs in at 105KG as against Python V-104 KG.

Is the extra weight of Python V a factor?

[JayS]

Livefist‏@livefist

NEWSBREAK: @byMBDA in 'advanced discussions' on integration of ASRAAM on LCA Tejas against Python-5. Detailed report coming up.

I think LCA will soon hold a record for largest number of weapons integrated on it. A zoo in itself. And I wonder why majority of our zoos and museums are terrible..? We should be best in that business.

On a serious note, What the hell is happening..? At this rate LCA will never get FOC.

[JayS]

Excellent Video about Tejas! Great to hear directly from Sq. 45 pilots about its superior capabilities.
https://www.facebook.com/plugins/video. ... 747621%2F&

Brilliant. Hajar thanks for posting this.