LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

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Vidur
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Vidur » 22 Aug 2017 16:32

I saw a few good posters and that's why I joined. Hopefully can have a discussion with them.

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby JayS » 22 Aug 2017 16:38

Vidur90 wrote:Yes one can and does to an extent in the areas one is directly responsible for, or what crosses one's desk or has had previous stints in. But the subject is very vast with different perceptions driven by the organizations and individuals. It is good for a student with genuine interest to explore other places. In the day to day job there is very little time for discussions or exploring outside comfort zones or the rules of the service. Generally we have a good understanding of Defence Production and R&D but interaction with and understanding of with armed forces is I feel rather limited. Of course if you wish you can have many contacts and personal relationships and I do.


Yes, I understand. Many of us have found out BRF just the same way. It is sad that interaction with AFs is limited at MoD. But hopefully you will find some useful information here, that you are looking for.

Vidur90 wrote:I have had to deal with local MPs and MLAs, mafia and assorted hooligans. I'm sure this forum cannot be much worse !

:twisted: Good one... :wink:

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Rakesh » 22 Aug 2017 16:45

Vidur, welcome to BRF! Glad to have someone with your experience here.

Can you kindly edit your username and remove the 90? We request that members have human sounding names. Thank You for your cooperation in this matter.

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Vidur » 22 Aug 2017 16:52

of course will do.

Vidur
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Vidur » 22 Aug 2017 16:59

Tried to do it but I don't think I am, allowed to edit username. Please feel free to edit if you have admin rights.

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Rakesh » 22 Aug 2017 17:18

I will ask one of the admins to do it for you. Thank You.

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Raveen » 22 Aug 2017 17:23

Rakesh wrote:You are referring to nations that have a strategic relationship/partnership with the United States for decades. India and the US are still figuring each other out. Still very much a buyer-seller relationship despite all the verbal statements. We do not have a relationship **currently** with America like Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Israel or Saudi Arabia enjoy. Apples & Oranges comparison.

And the alliances that the US enjoys with these countries has value for the American citizenry or for American interests.

Saudi Arabia: Oil.
Israel: Bible Belt America.
Japan, South Korea & Taiwan: China



You got one wrong there - Bible Belt America doesn't like the Jews...it's the NY/LA Jewish population that keeps the US aligned with Isreal

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby sum » 22 Aug 2017 18:02

Vidur90 wrote:I saw a few good posters and that's why I joined. Hopefully can have a discussion with them.

Sir, you are the dreaded MoD "bab-oon" as per many on BRF.

So guess you would have to standby for lots of incoming fire. 《Just kidding》

Really nice to have a view from MoD side and am sure we will learn a lot
,

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Vidur » 22 Aug 2017 18:15

sum wrote:
Vidur90 wrote:I saw a few good posters and that's why I joined. Hopefully can have a discussion with them.

Sir, you are the dreaded MoD "bab-oon" as per many on BRF.


,


Haha. That is okay. Some of the actions of my fraternity lead me to wonder about evolution as well ;-)

And a stint as a DM often means you deal and have chai and god forbid sometimes dinner with these cousins of the human race !

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Bala Vignesh » 22 Aug 2017 19:49

Sorry for the OT, but welcome to "The Forum", Vidur sir. I really hope the forum provides the kind of data points you are looking at and look forward to your posts and views on the effect of beurocratic process and it's (in) efficiency in matters of National Security.

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Vidur » 22 Aug 2017 20:14

Thank you for your kind welcome.

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Indranil » 22 Aug 2017 20:37

Welcome.

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Rakesh » 22 Aug 2017 20:37

Raveen wrote:You got one wrong there - Bible Belt America doesn't like the Jews...it's the NY/LA Jewish population that keeps the US aligned with Isreal

I do not want to derail this thread and we should continue this discussion elsewhere. Mods, please move this post in the appropriate thread if there is one.

Added Later: Agreed Ramana. I have removed it.

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby ramana » 22 Aug 2017 21:34

I suggest you delete it yourself. No need to post in this thread no?

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Cain Marko » 22 Aug 2017 22:12

Vidur wrote:Yes one can and does to an extent in the areas one is directly responsible for, or what crosses one's desk or has had previous stints in. But the subject is very vast with different perceptions driven by the organizations and individuals. It is good for a student with genuine interest to explore other places. In the day to day job there is very little time for discussions or exploring outside comfort zones or the rules of the service. Generally we have a good understanding of Defence Production and R&D but interaction with and understanding of with armed forces is I feel rather limited. Of course if you wish you can have many contacts and personal relationships and I do.

Vidurji, Welcome to the most informed forum on Indian defence and strategy related matters on the web. My opinion of course. One place to get to know about the LCA and it's tactical capabilities would be Vivek Ahujas analysis of the tejas, and it's comparison to the early f16.

http://thebetacoefficient.blogspot.com/2015/04/lca-tejas-versus-f-16-in-combat-part-i.html?m=1

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Vidur » 22 Aug 2017 22:32

Thank you for this link. It is very good. Good to see.

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby YashG » 22 Aug 2017 23:22

Rakesh wrote:Cross Posting from the Su-30MKI: News & Discussion thread...

As Sukhoi-30MKI production nears end, HAL worries about future orders
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.ca/2017/08/a ... s-end.html

Meanwhile, in Bengaluru, HAL is ramping up the production line for building the Tejas Mark-1 fighter, but has orders in hand for only 20 aircraft. The defence ministry has cleared the purchase of another 83 Tejas Mark 1A, but an actual contract would most likely be years away.


The article indeed raises a few important questions, two of them - #1. HAL has invested in production capabilities, they shouldn't lay idle, for want of orders. #2. Unless the capacities lying with state agencies are underutilised - it makes limited sense to create more capacities in private sector.

Article notes that thousands of employees tied up in these production capabilities will have to lay idle if more orders do not come. A solution needs to come within these three constraints- Developing pvt sector capabilities development, Preserving the HR expertise within HAL, Avoiding underutilization of human resources.

I think the best would be to create HAL JVs with pvt sector with transfer of HR to these pvt. JVs. The central holding company HAL will get dividends/profits and also establish cooperation/ToT between the various JVs. Each JV could work in a aviation vertical - Helicopters/ Transport/ Trainers/ LCA/ Passenger Aircraft etc. Each of these JVs could be ruled by different rules & compensation could be higher than what HAL provides and at the same time in lieu of higher performance/accountability standards. Such a restructuring maybe painful for some/some layoffs may happen too but in general higher compensation within JVs will make manay a deserving people happy & commited to the transition.

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Kakarat » 23 Aug 2017 00:01

Vidur wrote:Thank you for this link. It is very good. Good to see.


Vidur Ji welcome to BR

To all members of BR be careful on what you post about the Government, They have an eye on us and you may find NIA at your door steps :rotfl: (Just for fun)

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby SBajwa » 23 Aug 2017 00:02

I am sure if we have professional MBAs managing HAL it could become Boeing or general dynamic, douglas,etc. In any professional company yearly review of employees are done and are awarded/punished for their job. That is what is needed to be done.

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby SBajwa » 23 Aug 2017 00:02

Vidur welcome

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Indranil » 23 Aug 2017 02:30

Vidur sir,

Your thoughts on the single engine MII fighter competition.

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby ramana » 23 Aug 2017 04:38

Not a good idea to ask him about upcoming things in open forum.

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby negi » 23 Aug 2017 08:38

Just like K-9 Vajra-T is make in India Arty the F-16 or some such AC will be the make in India single engine fighter ; it does not take a lot to join the dots.

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Shankk » 23 Aug 2017 08:56

Kakarat wrote:Vidur Ji welcome to BR
To all members of BR be careful on what you post about the Government, They have an eye on us and you may find NIA at your door steps :rotfl: (Just for fun)


I can't believe people are falling for this. I have no inside information or can't even prove it but still refuse to believe that Vidur ji is an IAS officer on active duty. He might have been in past but something tells me even that is not likely. I am not going to reveal my reasons for believing this and for that reason not going to stress on my opinion further but just wanted to say it out in open. Vidur ji is very "uncharacteristic" of an IAS officer.

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby suryag » 23 Aug 2017 10:50

back on topic please, Tejas FB admin says that tandem pylons have been validated largely with few more tests to go, imagine the amount of flexibility this SDRE A/C can provide the force with all the goodies packed in

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby SaiK » 23 Aug 2017 18:36

Mk-1A production only begins from '19/20.
http://www.janes.com/article/73293/hal- ... hree-years

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby ramana » 23 Aug 2017 20:50

SaiK wrote:Mk-1A production only begins from '19/20.
http://www.janes.com/article/73293/hal- ... hree-years



Key Points
•HAL is looking to increase production of the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft from 8 to 16 platforms per year from 2019-20
•The type only entered squadron service in January 2015, 32 years after the LCA programme began :rotfl:

India’s state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) aims to double production of the indigenously developed Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) for the Indian Air Force (IAF) from 8 to 16 platforms per year from 2019-20, company officials have said.

HAL intends to accomplish this by investing an additional INR12.31 billion (USD191.78 million) in expanding the existing LCA assembly line in Bangalore and establishing a second one by using its BAE Systems Hawk 132 jet trainer licence-building facility.


Until then HAL, which has so far delivered just 3 of 20 single-engine LCA Mk1s ordered by the IAF in 2005, will build 8 fighters in 2017-18 and 10 the following year, said company chairman T Suvarna Raju.

Thereafter, from 2019-20 onwards, HAL would annually build 16 upgraded Tejas Mk1A variants to meet the IAF’s order for 83 LCAs, approved by the Indian Ministry of Defence (MoD) in a November 2016 contract worth INR500.25 billion.

“We have created Tier-I suppliers to build parts of Tejas. HAL would be concentrating on integration work, with private aerospace companies supplying major assemblies for Tejas,”
Raju told Jane’s on 21 August.

Earlier, Raju had told the Business Standard newspaper that previously it took HAL 19 months to build one LCA, but that from September onwards the platform construction time would be reduced by more than half, to nine months per aircraft.



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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby ramana » 23 Aug 2017 20:52

Kakarat wrote:
Vidur wrote:Thank you for this link. It is very good. Good to see.


Vidur Ji welcome to BR

To all members of BR be careful on what you post about the Government, They have an eye on us and you may find NIA at your door steps :rotfl: (Just for fun)


Kakkarat, Why this kind of intimidation? If you fear like that keep it to yourself. Its not fun to hint dark things in an open society.

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Marten » 23 Aug 2017 21:20

ramana wrote:
SaiK wrote:Mk-1A production only begins from '19/20.
http://www.janes.com/article/73293/hal- ... hree-years



Key Points
•HAL is looking to increase production of the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft from 8 to 16 platforms per year from 2019-20
•The type only entered squadron service in January 2015, 32 years after the LCA programme began :rotfl:

India’s state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) aims to double production of the indigenously developed Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) for the Indian Air Force (IAF) from 8 to 16 platforms per year from 2019-20, company officials have said.

HAL intends to accomplish this by investing an additional INR12.31 billion (USD191.78 million) in expanding the existing LCA assembly line in Bangalore and establishing a second one by using its BAE Systems Hawk 132 jet trainer licence-building facility.


Until then HAL, which has so far delivered just 3 of 20 single-engine LCA Mk1s ordered by the IAF in 2005, will build 8 fighters in 2017-18 and 10 the following year, said company chairman T Suvarna Raju.

Thereafter, from 2019-20 onwards, HAL would annually build 16 upgraded Tejas Mk1A variants to meet the IAF’s order for 83 LCAs, approved by the Indian Ministry of Defence (MoD) in a November 2016 contract worth INR500.25 billion.

“We have created Tier-I suppliers to build parts of Tejas. HAL would be concentrating on integration work, with private aerospace companies supplying major assemblies for Tejas,”
Raju told Jane’s on 21 August.

Earlier, Raju had told the Business Standard newspaper that previously it took HAL 19 months to build one LCA, but that from September onwards the platform construction time would be reduced by more than half, to nine months per aircraft.



Sir, simply mention Rahul Bedi and folks will figure the quality to be expected. Janes is as good as Debonair without the pinups.

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby shiv » 23 Aug 2017 21:33

ramana wrote:Kakkarat, Why this kind of intimidation? If you fear like that keep it to yourself. Its not fun to hint dark things in an open society.

Why worry ramana? We have driven out the likes of B Raman and Brigadier Ray from BRF. We have nearly driven out a retired army officer. We get the likes of Hari Nair and never manage to hold them or keep them interested. Why not drive out a babu for a change? On this forum - as I keep repeating - we ask forum members to speak with decency to each other, but forum members can be critical of anyone else on earth. So we can criticize Air Chief and Army Chief on here and then expect those who may have served with or under those people to smile and agree with us, or worse answer for those people. All we need to do next is find an errant IAS officer in news reports and demand that a forum member explain that person's action to us.

Typically - in a long thread of say 20 pages or more there are many who will appear and read only the latest comments, the last page - poop on the thread with a loose comment and then disappear. This is BRF. Only those who accept this crap survive on here. No normal human being can read a 50 page thread with the sort of pointless one off comments we get including the one you mentioned. That is OK for a general chatroom, not for a forum where we would like to foster people who are insiders or are knowledgeable in areas that concern us.

I still think that a person who is honest enough to admit that he is in government or in the forces (or ex forces) should be given a separate forum where they can be questioned politely about contentious issues with those questions that they choose to answer being posted on a "general questions" thread. Even admins should post questions on a questions thread and let valued insider guests answer in an answers thread with no cursing or dirty comments. Make a thread for ex forces, serving officers etc who are wiling to share their knowledge to the extent they can.

Since such a big song and dance is made about registration why not ask new members up front if they want to be "privileged member" because they are ex armed forces, ex minister or bureaucrat or police? When we are so hung up on "equality" for forum members then the most ignorant duffer who spends all his time on nukkad or love and marriage gets to pass judgement on the most experienced specialist.

It is high time we got off this pointless forum prattle mode.

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Manish_Sharma » 23 Aug 2017 23:31

Vidur wrote:Thank you for this link. It is very good. Good to see.


Welcome!

Please have a look at this thread also :

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6387

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Cybaru » 23 Aug 2017 23:51

shiv wrote:
ramana wrote:We have driven out the likes of B Raman and Brigadier Ray from BRF.


Not to forget DANK team. It is easy for admins to verify if the said person is MOD or not if we want to go down that route to create a cadre of defense posters on the forum.

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Kakarat » 24 Aug 2017 00:29

ramana wrote:
Kakarat wrote:
Vidur Ji welcome to BR

.....


Kakkarat, Why this kind of intimidation? If you fear like that keep it to yourself. Its not fun to hint dark things in an open society.


Sir, I purely meant is as a joke and in no way intended to intimidate or fear monger. If you feel otherwise you can feel free to remove it or if you say I will remove it my self. Sorry for the comment/joke that created this string of OT discussion

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby ramana » 24 Aug 2017 01:18

Ok.

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby SaiK » 25 Aug 2017 01:19


UlanBatori
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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby UlanBatori » 25 Aug 2017 01:56

If someone says: "I am RAA" does that make the person more credible I wonder. If that is the case let me go ahead and confess the TRUTH: I am in fact the authority that RAA, Mossad, SeeAyEh and KayJeeBee all consult, on matters related to Mongolia and India. I have so far not mentioned that because I don't want any of my clients to misinterpret my posts here as Official Declarations for which they have to pay $$M.

So please do **NOT* disagree with any of my declarations.
BTW, Vidurji, the term "Baboon" was probably my creation. TOTALLY 400% respectful, Hindi/ Pingreji (most chaste of Central Asian/Arabic languages) plural for "Babu".
Why do ppl laugh at that I wonder. Is there some sort of animal that has the same name? :eek: None in Mongolia, I assure you.

I would like to hear Vidurji's (unofficial of course) speculation on how Indian production rates of combat aircraft can be increased by a factor of 100 in an emergency.

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Dileep » 25 Aug 2017 07:28

Why don't we have a system of 'verified account' like social media?

I for one take everything skeptically, and the amount of trust need to be built by actions. The 'verified account' concept can shortcut that long drawn process.

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby Chinmay » 25 Aug 2017 08:48

^ +108. Members who have served in the armed forces should have separate tags of some sort as should people who arent service members but have extensive domain knowledge.

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby UlanBatori » 25 Aug 2017 17:43

^ I think PakDefnBumb already does that to brilliant effect. Various grades of cretins. On any Internet forum, ideas and arguments must stand on their own strengths, and no one should know whether they are arguing with an 80-year old Expert or a 12-year-old Expert. This has always been the traditional strength and draw of PeeAref as far as I am concerned. All this scraping and bowing and saashtang namaskar and touching the feet kissing the musharraf etc are what hold India back. Completely insincere too. Respectful debate, yes, but tolerance of pompous asses, NO!!! All that said, let me extend a hearty welcome to Shri/Smt Vidurji. For all I know or care s(he) could be a 12-year-old. Or President of India. Will treat exactly the same with the deep respect that is the trademark of Ulan Bator ancient civilization. Which of course is derived from Adi Sankara.
Last edited by UlanBatori on 26 Aug 2017 07:06, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: LCA: News & Discussions: 15 August 2017

Postby UlanBatori » 25 Aug 2017 17:47

BTW, that's not why I came to post here. I think there is a possibility of serious awakening in Dilli Babooncracy to the need to actually make progress in the engine/aircraft constipation problem.


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