2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Y I Patel · Post by **Y I Patel** » 08 Dec 2020 19:56

Was the call for Bharat Bandh successful or not? Please post reports here. Thanks

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 08 Dec 2020 20:03

ManSingh · Post by **ManSingh** » 08 Dec 2020 20:13

hanumadu wrote:
ManSingh wrote:
Genuine question. Do these states grow wheat post paddy harvesting? If so how much ia the time gap?

For punjab, the issue is timing. It is the last state to be covered by either of the two monsoons. So paddy is sowed late.
I never imagined Punjab is dependent on monsoon. It is the land of five rivers, after all. And that is what I thought made Punjab rich and a power house in agriculture.

Three of the five rivers are in Pakistani Punjab. We only really have Beas and Sutlej. There could be some areas that receive canal water for irrigation. I personally haven't seen it though.

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 08 Dec 2020 20:33

Tanaji wrote:The issue is that there is no negotiation so far. It is impossible to have discussions when 32 representatives each with their hidden agenda are in a room for negotiations. The only consistent thing they have is repeal 3 laws. Not to mention the drama of not having government food or tea. By this time one would have expected at least high level negotiations with smaller group but that is not happening.

Credit to the AAP and Congress : they have found a good template and will deploy it on every issue. So far BJP has no counter to it. Also, it cannot repeat it when in opposition either as it does not have the muscle and the Congress will not play as nice as BJP does when it is in power.

I am sure, with every such antic, BJP is gaining supporters and opposition losing them. The public knows everything.

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 08 Dec 2020 20:55

Amit Shah is to meet the farmers today. I dont expect anything to happen.

ManSinghji has raised a couple of good points regarding lack of redressal mechanisms. Lets hope this gets sorted soon but given how entrenched the position is, it will be hard to go back.

Usually there will be a mediator to break deadlock that both sides respect. There is none in this case

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 08 Dec 2020 21:00

Y I Patel wrote:Was the call for Bharat Bandh successful or not? Please post reports here. Thanks

Zero. In Karnataka some Congressis tried to close businesses but their calls were soundly rejected by the business owners. They then took the usual banner, flags out and did an obligatory march to the district commissioners office . Images from pretty much everywhere in India including people's islamic republics of Kerala and West Bengal too were normal.

After Khalistanis, Pakistanis, JNU dafli-gang and other assorted urban naxals, Anna Hazare has now decided to join the "protests". I guess this drama will go on for a while. Amit Shah has called for a meeting at his residence with the protestors tonight before the meeting with the agriculture ministry tomorrow, the government must not yield an inch.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 08 Dec 2020 21:45

WRT to capturing the throne in Delhi, I have previously suggested it is a meme for them.

I personally have no problem if they are all like Hardeep Puri.
If you see what I mean. The irony is that Hardeep Puri is not acceptable to these farmers. Wrong caste you see.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 08 Dec 2020 22:52

this about sums it up

The opposition was shown its 'aukaat' today.

I don't think the common man ever rose to give such a royal collective middle finger even to communist bharat bandhs in the past.

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 08 Dec 2020 23:07

Ambar wrote:
Y I Patel wrote:Was the call for Bharat Bandh successful or not? Please post reports here. Thanks
Zero. In Karnataka some Congressis tried to close businesses but their calls were soundly rejected by the business owners. They then took the usual banner, flags out and did an obligatory march to the district commissioners office . Images from pretty much everywhere in India including people's islamic republics of Kerala and West Bengal too were normal.

After Khalistanis, Pakistanis, JNU dafli-gang and other assorted urban naxals, Anna Hazare has now decided to join the "protests". I guess this drama will go on for a while. Amit Shah has called for a meeting at his residence with the protestors tonight before the meeting with the agriculture ministry tomorrow, the government must not yield an inch.

nvishal · Post by **nvishal** » 08 Dec 2020 23:28

nandakumar wrote:Are there marriages between Sikhs and Hindus?

A note on intermarriages:

There is a false view going around in the general public that intermarriages are some symbols of tolerance, melting pot of cultures etc etc. Rather, it does the opposite.

Throughout history, the sexual intermingling of people from two different groups has created clashes. It has created wars among villages and tribes.

You are seeing this happen between Hindu-muslim marriages. People unfamiliar with history are puzzled. They cannot understand how it ended up creating confrontation. The actual term for it is "conquest of foreign women" but civilian observers are calling it "love jihad".

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 08 Dec 2020 23:38

vijayk wrote:of course, protests are part of democracy but there are no rules forthese folks. They won't accept laws passed by the Parliament or rules of the society. They block roads, create chaos and push agendas. We have seen during CAA and now this one. May be we have to formalize and ask them to take permits etc. But their demands are like 1. Withdraws all laws. 2. Free all urban naxals/jihadis who were arrested 3. Put MSP for all crops all over
Why would they take permits and protest lawfully. They want to blackmail the country and push extremists.

I understand your argument - defiance towards authority is a central plank of the 'woke' extreme left everywhere.

The emphasis on rule of law here is not some dharmic thing, though it could be be interpreted as such. The real goal is to ensure that the common populace regard the power of government authority positively when it acts against these protesters. The Indian voter has historically voted well when given clearly good options to pick from. The average person wants peace and stability. The blockage of commerce does not help anyone, least of all the poor traders with their own businesses.

One of the things the two Modi administration has done is refuse to patronize the population. There's no overriding 'we will look after you. here's a dole, vote for us' approach very commonplace in INC's political language. The BJP has argued and demonstrated at the national level that such an approach is unnecessary. The people know that such an apparatus generates corruption where they get little. A stable rule of law mechanism is hugely empowering particularly to the weakest sections of society. They're happy to abide by rules if they see that the government applies it uniformly upon all.

I expect these mass congregated protests centered around Delhi to continue unless GoI has a clear SOP to tackle their formation, or undo them through the application of law. This means they penalize or win approvers among the entities who support these protests. Where possible, cordon off the area and immediately set up traffic diversions and inform the citizenry that the government wants to minimize the inconvenience to them. The effect and optics of the law would be focused on the the common man, not the protesters or the international press.

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 09 Dec 2020 00:50

Avani Singh Tanwar
@TanwarAvani
·
Dec 7
(As per Times Now)

Bhartiya Kisan Union’s Rakesh Tikait: Bandh not our idea. BKU is okay with farm laws.

SaraLax · Post by **SaraLax** » 09 Dec 2020 01:07

Tanaji wrote:Amit Shah is to meet the farmers today. I dont expect anything to happen.

Coming from deep south & brought up in lower middle class surroundings - what is the characteristic of Indian Sikhs these days ... particularly those from Punjab ?. It is not an easy sight to see the Punjab & Haryana farmers protesting and causing huge chaos to folks in Delhi & nearby areas. Maybe it is happening because these folks are close to Delhi. I felt it will be nice to understand the farming people of this region.

As much as i know - they are brave folks, martial in character and a lot of the people provide the strength for our Indian Army. Many Indian communities do work hard and cannot say Sikhs alone work hard. But are these folks also a bit hot headed ?. I was initially shocked when i came to know that the well known former cricketer Navjot Singh Sidhu fought with a man and hit him so hard that he died on the road itself and Sidhu had to spend some time in Jail. Like wise his antics of quitting the team in the middle of a cricketing tour. Harbhajan Singh (slapgate,caught-with-dirty-shoes-in-NZ, monkeygate) also comes to my mind. I also know that there is a lot of drug usage in this region - which is ruining the youngsters of this region. Looking at the cheap tactics of these Farmers ... like coming with "YES" or "NO" placards to meetings with government .... makes me think these folks can be easily emotionally influenced & made to become hot headed. But they seem to be persistent folks (pardon me if i am wrong - relatively selfish too ?) and do not appear to be of a nature where reasoning can be done to some extent to get them to prepare for the future where other Indian states, employing modern agricultural techniques, drip irrigation & etc will start competing against them in Agriculture too.

Is there a way for Central Government to allocate some specific money for these Sikh farmers every year (for next 5 years or so) to continue with their Wheat+Rice farming practices from the central funds and allow those farmers to continue in their hardened, tough to give up, highly subsidized farming culture and more so is it easy for central government to do this specific money grant every year to these proud farmers without ruffling the less richer, less proud but more practical farmers from other states ? Maybe in five years there would be so much change in Farming sector in India that this specific section of farmers will also change their farming culture to one which is more smarter, more efficient & more diverse one.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 09 Dec 2020 02:00

Mod Note

Please avoid making sweeping characterizations of any Indian community on this forum. Keep in mind that this is Bharat Rakshak. We are all Indians here. Base your arguments on the specific actors involved in the protests as opposed to trying to characterize an entire community and then expecting the forum to manage the consequences of your own depictions .

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 09 Dec 2020 02:22

PMO and GOI need to have a slick media outlet that regularly briefs media and gives its spin. Why is this aspect totally ignored?

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 09 Dec 2020 02:47

Maj Rajpreet Singh Aulakh
@rajpreetaulakh
For those who want to know how many Sikhs support Khalistan.
In 2017 election total 1.57 crore Punjabis voted. 91 lakh of these were Sikhs. Flag bearer of Khalistan Simranjit Singh Mann's party got only 49000 votes in total.
So only 0.53% Sikhs supported the idea of Khalistan.
6:39 AM · Dec 7, 2020·Twitter for Android

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 09 Dec 2020 02:51

SaraLax exactly my views. They may need subsidies for 5 years and switch to more remunerative crops that require less water intensive management.

I don’t know if they are any more or less emotional than anyone else.

They will never tell you and the media especially in the west and the English language Indian media will never tell you that they suffered grievously during the reign of terror in panjab. I have heard many stories from Jatt Sikhs of being repeatedly robbed at gun point by young men gone rogue. They tell me of their fathers being killed by gangs when they were children. I literally see the inter generational trauma.

Part of it is a very stoic culture. Some of them have only revealed these things after years. I am probably the only one to be taken into confidence other than their immediate families.

Like anyone else only judge the actions and not the persons.

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 09 Dec 2020 02:53

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... h-festival

Tech pioneer Bill Gates praised India’s policies for financial innovation and inclusion, saying his philanthropic foundation is working with other countries to roll out open-source technologies modeled on the country’s implementation.

India has built ambitious platforms for universal identification and digital payments, including the world’s largest biometric database and a system for sending rupees between any bank or smartphone app. Gates said those policies have drastically reduced the cost and friction of distributing aid to the poor, especially during the pandemic.

“If people are going to study one country right now, other than China, I’d say they should look at India,” Gates said at the Singapore Fintech Festival on Tuesday. “Things are really exploding there and innovation around that system is phenomenal.”

“India is a great example,” the co-chairman of the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation said during the virtual conference. His organization is now helping some countries that don’t have established standards to roll out similar systems based on open-source technologies, he added.

India’s biometric system -- called Aadhaar or “foundation” in Hindi -- has raised privacy concerns because it can also be used for government surveillance of citizens. Prime Minister Narendra Modi opposed the system before coming to power, but has since embraced it. Countries such as Russia, Morocco and Bangladesh have expressed interest in the approach.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 09 Dec 2020 03:07

IIT Ropar makes a stubble harvesting machine.

in thailand

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 09 Dec 2020 03:33

https://m.hindustantimes.com/world-news ... L_amp.html Facebook may block news content from being shared on its platforms in Australia. Here’s why

India should also bring a law like this. SM giants curate and rank news, earn from it, let them give some money to the local media houses they use.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 09 Dec 2020 03:42

If Punjab farmers want to increase their incomes significantly, double or even triple, they need to gradually move away from MSP-based wheat and rice to high-value crops and livestock, the demand for which is increasing at three to five times that of cereals.

https://indianexpress.com/article/opini ... s-7094357/ Punjab needs a package to help it diversify output, overcome MSP trap

This is a beautiful article full of information. Punjab enjoys reasonably high subsidy from head to toe, is still lagging behind in farmer's income: it needs to up the game to survive.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 09 Dec 2020 05:30

sanjaykumar wrote:SaraLax exactly my views. They may need subsidies for 5 years and switch to more remunerative crops that require less water intensive management.

I don’t know if they are any more or less emotional than anyone else.

They will never tell you and the media especially in the west and the English language Indian media will never tell you that they suffered grievously during the reign of terror in panjab. I have heard many stories from Jatt Sikhs of being repeatedly robbed at gun point by young men gone rogue. They tell me of their fathers being killed by gangs when they were children. I literally see the inter generational trauma.

Part of it is a very stoic culture. Some of them have only revealed these things after years. I am probably the only one to be taken into confidence other than their immediate families.

Like anyone else only judge the actions and not the persons.

A true Sikh is born to protect dharma, civilisation & sovereignty of Bharat.

khalistanis are not Sikh, they're anti-India pawns of vengeful islamists and vindictive commies, BIF hell bent on destroying India.

Historically, it was the Sikhs who protected northern India and the Hindus from most invaders. Without the Sikhs, there is no India.

If there is anything to be learned from the culture of these two communities, the Hindus and the Sikhs, it's this: the inherent philosophy & value systems of both are the same.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 09 Dec 2020 05:33

I don't know enough about global trade in grains.

Is there a world market for grains, eg shortages in China? That is supply and demand including as animal feed.
Can Panjab farmers meet some of this demand on quality?

Can Panjab farmers meet demand on price?

Farmers are subsidised the world over, can GoI help meet the price requirement through subsidies?

This would be only a short term option. The reason is of course India would be selling water to foreign markets and keeping the salinity, lowered ground water, fertiliser run-off etc.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 09 Dec 2020 06:01

chetak wrote:
sanjaykumar wrote:SaraLax exactly my views. They may need subsidies for 5 years and switch to more remunerative crops that require less water intensive management.

I don’t know if they are any more or less emotional than anyone else.

They will never tell you and the media especially in the west and the English language Indian media will never tell you that they suffered grievously during the reign of terror in panjab. I have heard many stories from Jatt Sikhs of being repeatedly robbed at gun point by young men gone rogue. They tell me of their fathers being killed by gangs when they were children. I literally see the inter generational trauma.

Part of it is a very stoic culture. Some of them have only revealed these things after years. I am probably the only one to be taken into confidence other than their immediate families.

Like anyone else only judge the actions and not the persons.

A true Sikh is born to protect dharma, civilisation & sovereignty of Bharat.

khalistanis are not Sikh, they're anti-India pawns of vengeful islamists and vindictive commies, BIF hell bent on destroying India.

Historically, it was the Sikhs who protected northern India and the Hindus from most invaders. Without the Sikhs, there is no India.

If there is anything to be learned from the culture of these two communities, the Hindus and the Sikhs, it's this: the inherent philosophy & value systems of both are the same.

Thank you brother.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 09 Dec 2020 06:04

sanjaykumar wrote:I don't know enough about global trade in grains.

Is there a world market for grains, eg shortages in China? That is supply and demand including as animal feed.
Can Panjab farmers meet some of this demand on quality?

Can Panjab farmers meet demand on price?

Farmers are subsidised the world over, can GoI help meet the price requirement through subsidies?

This would be only a short term option. The reason is of course India would be selling water to foreign markets and keeping the salinity, lowered ground water, fertiliser run-off etc.

Punjabi farmers use to grow pulses (dal), gram(chhole), peas, mustard, carrots, radishes, cantiloopes, watermelons and other various crops. now only wheat, rice and sugarcane

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 09 Dec 2020 06:44

SaraLax wrote:
Tanaji wrote:Amit Shah is to meet the farmers today. I dont expect anything to happen.

Coming from deep south & brought up in lower middle class surroundings - what is the characteristic of Indian Sikhs these days ... particularly those from Punjab ?. It is not an easy sight to see the Punjab & Haryana farmers protesting and causing huge chaos to folks in Delhi & nearby areas. Maybe it is happening because these folks are close to Delhi. I felt it will be nice to understand the farming people of this region.

As much as i know - they are brave folks, martial in character and a lot of the people provide the strength for our Indian Army. Many Indian communities do work hard and cannot say Sikhs alone work hard. But are these folks also a bit hot headed ?. I was initially shocked when i came to know that the well known former cricketer Navjot Singh Sidhu fought with a man and hit him so hard that he died on the road itself and Sidhu had to spend some time in Jail. Like wise his antics of quitting the team in the middle of a cricketing tour. Harbhajan Singh (slapgate,caught-with-dirty-shoes-in-NZ, monkeygate) also comes to my mind. I also know that there is a lot of drug usage in this region - which is ruining the youngsters of this region. Looking at the cheap tactics of these Farmers ... like coming with "YES" or "NO" placards to meetings with government .... makes me think these folks can be easily emotionally influenced & made to become hot headed. But they seem to be persistent folks (pardon me if i am wrong - relatively selfish too ?) and do not appear to be of a nature where reasoning can be done to some extent to get them to prepare for the future where other Indian states, employing modern agricultural techniques, drip irrigation & etc will start competing against them in Agriculture too.

Is there a way for Central Government to allocate some specific money for these Sikh farmers every year (for next 5 years or so) to continue with their Wheat+Rice farming practices from the central funds and allow those farmers to continue in their hardened, tough to give up, highly subsidized farming culture and more so is it easy for central government to do this specific money grant every year to these proud farmers without ruffling the less richer, less proud but more practical farmers from other states ? Maybe in five years there would be so much change in Farming sector in India that this specific section of farmers will also change their farming culture to one which is more smarter, more efficient & more diverse one.

A lot of the things you talk about, like the protestors' tactics etc. are just that--tactics in a fight with the BJP GoI that they picked. Once they decided to start a fight, it makes sense that they go "all in" -- use any and all tactics they can to push for a victory. It is not something that defines Punjabis or Sikhs or some other community, anyone who seriously wants to win a fight will pull out all stops. There is no point in crying that they are using unfair tactics or saying harsh things etc.

A few things are clear:

- GoI, more than any other democratic government in the world, is hugely vulnerable to anyone who can get organized and start a fight over almost anything. These fights are designed by the instigators to climb the escalation ladder, offering a choice between collapse of governance or capitulation. If the latter, it only provides added impetus for the next attack.

- BJP under Modi is uniquely vulnerable because in the public eye worldwide, the Hindu resurgence it represents arouses massive negative energy.

- BJP / Modi don't appear to have invested in strategies of fight anticipation and suppression, and counter-tactics to manage and win the fight. They mostly seem to rely on the idea that the voter will remember who is in the right and will vote accordingly. But this is too costly in the governance period between elections, and is also highly unsustainable--the efficacy of wait-it-out tactics will wear down after a while.

- Specifically, on the propaganda front, BJP & Modi have proved themselves shockingly naive and lethargic. Modi's energy and brilliance on the podium at election time is a different matter; but during the governance period he seems to have decided to be as understated as possible, for reasons best known to himself. Maybe he feels that the magic will wear out from overuse, who knows? But he is getting no points from his detractors for pulling rhetorical punches, might as well use his powers to rally his supporters, no? The mild-mannered and rational responses--here are the facts folks--are not going to cut it. The propaganda skills deployed by their enemies are in a totally different league.

- Another front that is lacking is counter-mobilization. I understand why rival mobs clashing is not a desirable thing at nearly every level. But there are so few arrows in the GoI's quiver that something has to give.

No less a personage than Ambedkar has declared that once the Constitution is in place, street demonstrations of the kind we are seeing should. be a thing of the past, as the Constitution offers every imaginable venue for participation in the lawmaking process from inception to passage, and later for redress. If it were up to me, I would put Ambedkar front and center, and craft laws / constitutional amendments (whatever it takes) that limit the possibility of such disruptive street protests.

It's not fair of me, not being in the arena, to carp, but I have to say that BJP / Hindutva forces suffer from a massive failure of imagination. Some of the 20 year-olds I see on twitter show more imagination and creativity than all the chintan baithaks put together.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 09 Dec 2020 06:56

chetak wrote: ...
A true Sikh is born to protect dharma, civilisation & sovereignty of Bharat.

khalistanis are not Sikh, they're anti-India pawns of vengeful islamists and vindictive commies, BIF hell bent on destroying India.

Historically, it was the Sikhs who protected northern India and the Hindus from most invaders. Without the Sikhs, there is no India.

If there is anything to be learned from the culture of these two communities, the Hindus and the Sikhs, it's this: the inherent philosophy & value systems of both are the same.

Is it a reasonable or fair analogy to say that Sikhs are our own Knights of the Round Table, (or maybe Knights Templar?) whereas Khalistanis are more like the Janissary slave-warriors of the Turkish Sultanate?

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 09 Dec 2020 08:43

https://twitter.com/octivist/status/1336359537192792064

watch the Bandh videos ...

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 09 Dec 2020 09:08

Y I Patel wrote:Was the call for Bharat Bandh successful or not? Please post reports here. Thanks

These are reports from Deccan Herald; a news paper which is very pro-Congress and extremely "secular". Even they had to admit the truth.
'Bharat Bandh' partial in Karnataka; poor response in Mysuru, coastal region
Karnataka govt strikes at Opposition unity, passes controversial Land Reforms Bill with JD(S) 'support'

. The sad fact is that Congress had demanded a division of votes, expecting to get the bill trashed. But what happened was that many JD(S) MLAs also supported the bill. The Congress had to stand there with eggs thrown on their face

. There is no love lost between Kumaraswamy @ Kumaranna and Siddarammaiah @ Siddu, both very "secular" otherwise.

Suraj wrote:I expect these mass congregated protests centered around Delhi to continue unless GoI has a clear SOP to tackle their formation, or undo them through the application of law.

There is now a template for this Siege of Delhi kind of operations with the AAP led local government also acting as a sabouter. Delhi Police and central government will have to device a scheme to tackle this. I am sure they by now know who are the financiers and organizers for these shows. The raid on Popular Front of India (PFI) offices all across India shows that. Get some folks to create ruckus in New Delhi and then the main stream media would be the 'force multiplier'.

vijayk wrote:Bhartiya Kisan Union’s Rakesh Tikait: Bandh not our idea. BKU is okay with farm laws.

Does this mean that there are now splits in the 'unified' group of farmers? I was also reading a news that farmers in MH and AP(?) were actually in favour of the new farm laws.

PMO and GOI need to have a slick media outlet that regularly briefs media and gives its spin. Why is this aspect totally ignored?

Even if they have a media outlet the actual 'spreading of the news' will still have to be carried out through main stream media outlets like TV channels and news papers. Many of them are any way against BJP and the current GoI. They can still downplay the GoI version or even worse, mis-report them. Channels like Doordarshan where GoI has a say do not have much viewership these days. The private channel & news paper gang tom tom that they are 'neutral' and peddle their own biases. Perhaps GoI having more social media based outreach would help, and I guess they are already on it.

vimal · Post by **vimal** » 09 Dec 2020 09:22

https://twitter.com/Suhelseth/status/13 ... 6794337282

SUHEL SETH
@Suhelseth
The Bharat Bandh is about as successful as Rahul’s political career presently. If they had announced a Bangkok Bandh, they’d have met with greater success.

nandakumar · Post by **nandakumar** » 09 Dec 2020 10:54

nvishal wrote:
nandakumar wrote:Are there marriages between Sikhs and Hindus?
A note on intermarriages:

There is a false view going around in the general public that intermarriages are some symbols of tolerance, melting pot of cultures etc etc. Rather, it does the opposite.

Throughout history, the sexual intermingling of people from two different groups has created clashes. It has created wars among villages and tribes.

You are seeing this happen between Hindu-muslim marriages. People unfamiliar with history are puzzled. They cannot understand how it ended up creating confrontation. The actual term for it is "conquest of foreign women" but civilian observers are calling it "love jihad".

The marriage in the particular case that I mentioned didn't happen. In the atmosphere created by Bhindranwale, the girl's parents refused to consent to the marriage fearing backlash within their community of friends and relatives. My friend couldn't countenance a marriage in the face of parental opposition. Mind you, this was the early 80s when love itself was a restrained affair between a boy and a girl and not the hot, passionate and hormones jangling in the veins stuff of modern day romance.

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 09 Dec 2020 18:44

This is going as predicted with the farmers rejecting government proposals:

https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... h-7097391/

Government's draft prposal to amend farm laws-- Key points
* Written assurance that the existing Minimum Support Price(MSP) regime for procurement will continue.

* Registeration of the traders operating outside mandis and imposition of tax and cess as they used in APMC (Agricultural Produce Market Committee) mandis on them.

*On concerns that farmers may be duped as anyone having just a pan card is allowed to trade outside APMC mandis, the government said to rule out such apprehensions, the state governments can be given the power to register such traders and make rules keeping in mind the local situation of farmers.

*On the issue of farmers not getting the right to appeal in civil courts for dispute resolution, the government said it is open to making an amendment to provide for an appeal in civil courts. Currently, the dispute resolution is at SDM level.

*On fears that big corporates will take over farmlands, the government said it has already been made clear in the laws, but still, for clarity's sake, it can be written that no buyer can take loans against farmland nor any such condition will be made to farmers.

Perhaps someone like ManSingh ji would provide their views on these proposals?

ManSingh · Post by **ManSingh** » 09 Dec 2020 18:57

Tanaji wrote:This is going as predicted with the farmers rejecting government proposals:

https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... h-7097391/

Government's draft prposal to amend farm laws-- Key points
* Written assurance that the existing Minimum Support Price(MSP) regime for procurement will continue.

* Registeration of the traders operating outside mandis and imposition of tax and cess as they used in APMC (Agricultural Produce Market Committee) mandis on them.

*On concerns that farmers may be duped as anyone having just a pan card is allowed to trade outside APMC mandis, the government said to rule out such apprehensions, the state governments can be given the power to register such traders and make rules keeping in mind the local situation of farmers.

*On the issue of farmers not getting the right to appeal in civil courts for dispute resolution, the government said it is open to making an amendment to provide for an appeal in civil courts. Currently, the dispute resolution is at SDM level.

*On fears that big corporates will take over farmlands, the government said it has already been made clear in the laws, but still, for clarity's sake, it can be written that no buyer can take loans against farmland nor any such condition will be made to farmers.
Perhaps someone like ManSingh ji would provide their views on these proposals?

Early view is looking good esp. the part on civil courts and not able to obtain loans against farmland. The SDM only thing was terrible in the first place. MSP - no idea. It wasn't a law earlier so I guess written assurance is the max they can do. Worries me a bit as Modi ji will not be always there. A future govt like upa-1 may be able to skew the process to make money for itself. I am not sure how this can be resolved.

A central govt legally bound to advise production quotas to the state government three months in advance of sowing season, probably will handle the issue of a supply gut and low prices ( in case of no MSP)?? Not sure if our system is mature enough to be able to do this.

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 09 Dec 2020 19:28

The Punjab APMC traders union has already rejected government's proposal to amend the laws, repeal all 3 laws or the gherao of Delhi will intensify is their new threat. The APMC traders have said they will be completely blocking off Delhi-Agra, Delhi-Noida, Delhi-Jaipur entry and exit points starting Dec 9th, and have called for farmers across the country to join them in making the lives of citizens of Delhi more miserable.

If you match the timelines of anti-CAA protests, the farm protests are running just 4 days behind schedule. After the skirmishes of Dec 6th 2019, the next major attack on police, businesses in Delhi by the anti-CAA jihadis/urban naxals was on Dec 12th, 2019. Looks like we are in for repeat of the same strategy by BIF.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 09 Dec 2020 21:36

Just a reminder, Delhi has a very large Sikh population.

Khalistanis will make this a Hindu bashing thing. But if they are willing to hold millions of Sikhs ransom, this is anything but ‘panth in danger’.

Do not fall for those tricks again. Keep cool heads.

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 09 Dec 2020 22:06

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 09 Dec 2020 23:01

ManSingh wrote: MSP - no idea. It wasn't a law earlier so I guess written assurance is the max they can do. Worries me a bit as Modi ji will not be always there. A future govt like upa-1 may be able to skew the process to make money for itself. I am not sure how this can be resolved.

No Modi govt is a good thing, no? It means the current protestors are in power and they can promulgate laws to include MSP in the law or perhaps even repeal the Farm Bills. Why should they beware of UPA when UPA is saying they want to repeal the laws.

mmasand · Post by **mmasand** » 09 Dec 2020 23:11

Needless to say, GoI doesn't even have an official spokesperson (Javdekar does not count). It's not just the BJP, but all conservative govt's seem to have poor communication strategies.

If you refer to the INC manifesto, you will find these policy affirmations:

*Congress will repeal the Agricultural Produce Market Committees Act and make trade in agricultural produce — including exports and inter-state trade — free from all restrictions.
*We will establish farmers’ markets with adequate infrastructure and support in large villages and small towns to enable the farmer to bring his/her produce and freely market the same.
*Congress will formulate a policy on export and import of agricultural products that will support farmers and Farmer Producer Companies/Organisations and enhance their income.
*Congress promises to formulate a policy to enable the construction of modern warehouses, cold storage, and food processing facilities in every block of the country.

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 09 Dec 2020 23:17

Socialist ideologies and communist thoughts of revolution against capitalists and corporations is a very potent drug. When I was young in the pre-computer,pre-internet days the articles and editorials in mostly left leaning newspapers would routinely whip up outrage against "thieving conniving capitalists" like Tatas and Birlas, these two family owned conglomerates were also the favorite targets of banner carrying communist and leftist labor unions, student unions, kisan unions etc. Today despite the rising aspirations and a burgeoning middle class, the only thing that has changed are the names of the business houses on those banners and the medium of outrage. Instead of newspapers, the outrage is now on social media, and instead of "Tatas and Birlas" it is now "Ambanis and Adanis". More than the left controlled student and labor unions, the hypocrites are the urban middle class who while enjoying the tremendous increase in quality of life over the last 2 decades because of free market capitalism , still get sucked into activism against the very companies they want to work in or aspire for their children to find employment in ! The more things change, the more they remain the same..

vimal · Post by **vimal** » 10 Dec 2020 01:00

^^ Its even worse than that. The moment these middle class Indians go to foreign they will become die-hard lefties and socialist and try to emulate every western idea and force them on India whether it makes sense or not. One recently UK became resident was railing how a civil society does not let folks die of hunger and how the evil Mudi is responsible for this. I pointed him to Akashay Patra donation page and since then he is quiet. Socialism on your back not mine.