India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

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VikramS
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by VikramS »

DFI has some chatter about Haji Pir being unavailable for terrorist infiltration
AshishA
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by AshishA »

VikramS wrote:DFI has some chatter about Haji Pir being unavailable for terrorist infiltration
Also about Chinese misadventure at depsang.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Anoop »

I am trying to understand the above report by Col. Vinayak Bhat. He says that the Chinese have started the diversion/damming of the Galwan river starting 40 km upstream of it's confluence with the Shyok. That work started in 2015-2016, so it stands to reason that they could create a channel in the middle of the stream since the water flow would be reduced. However, I couldn't tell from the photos whether the river was diverted (to where?) or whether the mountain side was dug up to create space for vehicles.

If this report is correct, how does it square with Abhijit Mitra's claim that the action on June 15/16 restored the flow of the river by damaging the structure? Col. Bhat refers to dozers and 2x JCB earthmovers in the photos as having "diverted" the river. If that is the case, it is conceivable that these equipment were upturned or otherwise damaged to the point of not functioning properly. That still leads to the question of what happens when the Chinese return to replace these. Their significant buildup all along the Galwan valley can't be wished away and presents this threat unless we reverse it.

I am still confused as to what the Chinese will achieve even with a motorable road in the Galwan valley. To physically interdict the Indian road to DBO, they will have to cross the Shyok, which is much wider than the Galwan river. If they hope to interdict it by artillery or mortar fire from the Galwan valley, they expose themselves to counter fire while being trapped in a funnel. Maybe they just want to sit there and enjoy the scenery!
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Bart S »

Pratyush wrote:
Jarita wrote:Only part of Kishore Madhubani argument one buys is that India should not play Unkils game in Asia. We have to be tactful but we cannot suffer territorial losses. The ball is in China's court. They simply cannot relentlessly grab their neighbours territory and then cry "don't let uncle sam in". It works both ways.

I have watched a few of his interviews. The dude is totally a PRC shill. One thing that he cannot or will not understand is why should India play ball with PRC. When PRC has occupied Aksi chin, has not demarcated the border and keeps on changing the status quo on the LAC.

When faced with such a scenario can India really be expected to deliberately cut it self off from any source of support??

For any rational Human being the answer will be a resounding no. But not for this gentleman. That alone makes me question his ability to be realistic analyst.
Kishore Madhubani is a PRC shill, in fact many ways "more Chicom than the CCP" if one can paraphrase 'more English than the queen'. Anybody who has read his puke-worthy articles in the SCMP cannot be in two minds about that.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Bart S »

arshyam wrote:
Karan M wrote:I spent a fair bit of time with both PRC and Taiwanese folks online and IRL, and I echo Ravi's write-up. It is spot on.

Indian's are seen as inferior, caste-ridden, primitive, poor people.

The fact that we are challenging them is simply intolerable for their pysche.
This also means that we should not put too much store into theories about propping up Taiwan as a bulwark against the PRC, etc., as their view of us is likely similar. Just deal with the big bully directly, and work with those who are at the periphery like Vietnam or Mongolia..
Be that as it may, there is absolutely zero excuse for keeping Taiwan at arms length purely in deference to the PRC. In fact while threatening all and sundry not to have trade or poltical ties with Taiwan, the PRC themselves benefit greatly from massive trade and investment ties with Taiwan and Xi even had a summit with their leader. So while we should not have rose tinted glasses on, we should exploit ties with Taiwan to their full potential.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Ankit Desai »

Anoop wrote:
........Their significant buildup all along the Galwan valley can't be wished away and presents this threat unless we reverse it.

I am still confused as to what the Chinese will achieve even with a motorable road in the Galwan valley. To physically interdict the Indian road to DBO, they will have to cross the Shyok, which is much wider than the Galwan river. If they hope to interdict it by artillery or mortar fire from the Galwan valley, they expose themselves to counter fire while being trapped in a funnel. Maybe they just want to sit there and enjoy the scenery!
Part in green: You have impression that Chinese holds entire Galwan valley but they are not. The Galwan flows in shape like a corner of rectangle. Indian army still holds shorter leg which is approxiately 8 km long. So "all along Galwan valley" is wrong term.

If you think Chinese does not hold entire Galwan valley than please read below.

They do not have to cross Shyok to control road connecting Darbuk & DBO.

Once they capture "entire" Galwan valley , they are on the bank of Shyok river. So they may climb mountain tops and control the road as well cut of DBO or stay on the bank and build post (like this https://twitter.com/detresfa_/status/12 ... 1591007232) to control the road.

In Winter they may just walk other side of Shyok.

-Ankit
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Anoop »

Ankit Desai wrote:Part in green: You have impression that Chinese holds entire Galwan valley but they are not. The Galwan flows in shape like a corner of rectangle. Indian army still holds shorter leg which is approximately 8 km long. So "all along Galwan valley" is wrong term.
Thank you for the map, Ankit. However, if you follow the map coordinate on the tweeted image by detresfa viz. 34°45'43.9"N 78°10'06.4"E and look at the horizontal scale, that IA camp is only around 1000 ft (300 m) from the confluence of the Galwan and Shyok river. That length scale also squares with the approximate width of the Shyok river.

https://goo.gl/maps/St421qdTkxEsih8V6

There is a reply to that tweet that the IA camp shown above is marked 6 and not 8, which appears to be correct based on the reasoning above (length scale).

On the same map, there is a ridgeline to the right almost parallel to the Shyok river that meets the Galwan valley near the claim line (dotted white line). That is still less than 2 miles from the confluence of the Shyok and Galwan rivers where the IA camps 7 and 8 are located (although Ajai Shukla claims otherwise).

However, your point of the Chinese being able to cross over the Shyok in winter (if they get to the confluence of the two rivers) is a valid one and answers my question. Thank you.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Haridas »

KLNMurthy wrote:
khan wrote: I really hope our side is thinking of being pre-emptive & not just waiting for them to gather on their side of Akashi Chin in a enough numbers to overwhelm us.
I don't know what "Aksai Chin" means but can we change the name to something like "Aatish-e-Hind?"
Well just call it by its original name:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1273 ... 31233.html

Quote:
Aksai Chin is a relatively recent Chinese sponsored Uighur name.

Ladakhis & Tibetans called it by the Sanskrit name "Gosthana"(=place of the cows).

Han Chinese have no history or presence in the region. They are just recent occupiers

Use original name & show them their place Aksai Chin is a part of Hotan County.

The name Hotan actually comes from Sanskrit Godana as mentioned in ancient Indian texts.

Chinese also used same name in the past

Tibetans called it by the name Gosthana & entire region had related names

Use #Gosthana not Aksai Chin

Those asking me how it got its name in a barren region.

Please do not forget that in Indian literature "Govansh" includes not just the cows but the entire family. In this case, it includes the Yaks which are found in plenty in this region.
Image

Alternative near-modern name : Akshay-Chinnha / Akshay-Sindha / Akshay-Hind
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by AshishA »

I was just browsing weibo after logging in with a temp number from China available on the internet and used Google translate to search for India related results. And the observations RaviB had about Chinese were correct.

They completely rely on us for any source of information. And any videos of Chinese soldiers getting beaten up is highly distressing for them.

Especially the recent one where they saw big tall soldiers beating up their superior Hans. And they even quote anonymous desi OSINT handles on Twitter to spread conspiracy theories. And the news of our mountain division reaching the front lines was a top news along with recent bridge collapse. But surprisingly no news about the Han Colonel killed that was reported by NDTV.

Even India Today report about what transpired. Though they didn't believe it. But they do believe we are preparing for war with army chief visit and other deployments at the border.

We have a great opportunity to exploit. As they are reliant on us for info we can feed them whatever we want and exploit it to our advantage. Especially videos, which would be hard to dispute.
Last edited by AshishA on 23 Jun 2020 07:54, edited 2 times in total.
Bart S
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Bart S »

SBajwa wrote:
Larry Walker wrote:Gaurav Arya is ok for some tu-tu-main-main with low IQ Pakis but not a serious analyst - no point or value add quoting him.
Not just OK! he seriously rebutts Bakis and others. check below.

Not sure why people are going to great lengths to diss him here. He lost his cool after being attacked by the ex-servicemen who to put it mildly were spreading FUD because of their political affiliations (notably to key opposition parties). He is extremely good at media narratives and putting out our point of view, something that is sorely lacking across the Indian establishment. He may have his flaws but lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Hari Nair »

ramana wrote:Hari Nair,
More I think about it:
"Galwan was 2020 Assal Uttar. Just like then, we don't have follow-on forces to push the advantage.

And the PLA request for help to fish their soldiers from the cold river paused us.

Basically 16 Bihar in that night rampage kheemafied the Chinese special forces and thwarted their attack plans. Just like 4th Mtn Div and 2nd Indep Armd Brigade blunted the Pak attack force in September 1965.".....
If this is right PLA has to do something to recover H&D of their Rapid Reaction Force or Eagle forces set up after 1979 Vietnam debacle and 1991 Desert Storm.
The exemplary courage displayed by our Boys and the strong initiative displayed by the our young leadership in their prompt counter-attack, at night with hand-to-hand combat, was definitively a surprise and a strong set-back to the Chinese.

However, if one zooms out of the picture to the Chinese theatre level, then the effective loss of just about a company strength of their (killed & injured) troops will perhaps be a moment for pause and re-calibration. I hope I am proved wrong, but it may be too optimistic to hope that this set-back will make them shelve their offensive plans.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by khan »

I just watched this latest Nitin Gokhale video, one thing that made me very happy was Nitin tried to get General Rakesh Sharma bash the quality of Chinese troops & he refused - said "respect your enemy".

Also, right at the end, the RAW guy said that Xi has two choices:
  • Find a face-saving off ramp.
  • Go for something bigger.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by arshyam »

Bart S wrote:
arshyam wrote: This also means that we should not put too much store into theories about propping up Taiwan as a bulwark against the PRC, etc., as their view of us is likely similar. Just deal with the big bully directly, and work with those who are at the periphery like Vietnam or Mongolia..
Be that as it may, there is absolutely zero excuse for keeping Taiwan at arms length purely in deference to the PRC. In fact while threatening all and sundry not to have trade or poltical ties with Taiwan, the PRC themselves benefit greatly from massive trade and investment ties with Taiwan and Xi even had a summit with their leader. So while we should not have rose tinted glasses on, we should exploit ties with Taiwan to their full potential.
Agreed.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by arshyam »

Anoop wrote:
Ankit Desai wrote:Part in green: You have impression that Chinese holds entire Galwan valley but they are not. The Galwan flows in shape like a corner of rectangle. Indian army still holds shorter leg which is approximately 8 km long. So "all along Galwan valley" is wrong term.
Thank you for the map, Ankit. However, if you follow the map coordinate on the tweeted image by detresfa viz. 34°45'43.9"N 78°10'06.4"E and look at the horizontal scale, that IA camp is only around 1000 ft (300 m) from the confluence of the Galwan and Shyok river. That length scale also squares with the approximate width of the Shyok river.

https://goo.gl/maps/St421qdTkxEsih8V6
This was the site of the Galwan skirmish, called PP-14. 34°46'09.6"N 78°12'47.4"E (https://goo.gl/maps/Ex65aJ7twgjVdDQg8)

There were reports of a road being built to this point, as well a bridge completed just last week 3 km into the river valley from the confluence point. So I'd say, we are quite well entrenched in this area, maybe even at PP-14 (this is borne by the quick arrival of reinforcements to beat the Chinese earlier). The base at the confluence point is perhaps a logistics node to supply our more forward positions.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by arshyam »

Haridas wrote:
KLNMurthy wrote: I don't know what "Aksai Chin" means but can we change the name to something like "Aatish-e-Hind?"
Well just call it by its original name:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1273 ... 31233.html

Quote:
Aksai Chin is a relatively recent Chinese sponsored Uighur name.

Ladakhis & Tibetans called it by the Sanskrit name "Gosthana"(=place of the cows).

Han Chinese have no history or presence in the region. They are just recent occupiers

Use original name & show them their place Aksai Chin is a part of Hotan County.

The name Hotan actually comes from Sanskrit Godana as mentioned in ancient Indian texts.

Chinese also used same name in the past

Tibetans called it by the name Gosthana & entire region had related names

Use #Gosthana not Aksai Chin

Those asking me how it got its name in a barren region.

Please do not forget that in Indian literature "Govansh" includes not just the cows but the entire family. In this case, it includes the Yaks which are found in plenty in this region.
Image

Alternative near-modern name : Akshay-Chinnha / Akshay-Sindha / Akshay-Hind
So if Hueng-Tsang used the old Sanskritic name for the region, that's as good as a map showing the "our territory". We can lay claim to all of Tibet and Xinjiang by taking a leaf out of the Chinese map, err book.. :lol:

Gosthana it is. Time for a Parliamentary resolution reiterating our claim to Aksai Chin (add-on to the 1993 resolution), while also announcing that it will henceforth be called Gosthana. The extent of Gosthana need not be defined exactly, and could be as much as the Tibetan govt-in-exile wants to claim, and we'll use that in chai-biskoot sessions with the Chinese. They can't protest without making their own "south Tibet" (Arunachal) and nine-dash claims untenable.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by symontk »

yensoy wrote:
Singbhai wrote: The J10 fighters seem to be a supply to Pakistani Airforce. They are intended to be used by PAF as a substitute to f-16 fighters. Most likely 36 of them were delivered based on the original contract signed in 2016 which most people thought to have been cancelled.
https://www.flightglobal.com/pakistan-s ... 79.article
I wonder what the IMF and other western lenders will say when they learn that their beggar likes the high life.

Pakis were supposed to not spend more than last year and they worked out a budget. This purchase of course will be coached as a previous commitment with deferred payment option vital to national security - but we need to go to town about how the Pakis are falling further into the Chinese debt trap and how their further funding should be completely cut off.
amar_p wrote:All 36 delivered at once? Doesn't seem normal.
You bet, nothing is normal. Rather everything is normal, 2 front war as expected is taking shape. First the Pakis need to learn to fly these planes, unless they have already been trained.
I think Pak forces will fight us as mercenaries of Chinese, these could be gifts for the same. Soldiers with high altitude experience is not easy to come for china also. they will outsource
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by symontk »

pankajs wrote:
yensoy wrote: That makes no sense to me because the nature of war is entirely different between these locations. SCS is primarily a naval conflict, Ladakh is army, high altitude mountain warfare. If they want to calibrate their logistics and production ability, they already know what they are capable of because they are highly data driven and centralized.
Also,

1. Different era means that the logic of Deng/Vietnam was does not hold good.

2. A loss with India will dent their reputation and make their other counterparts/neighbors more assertive/willing to fight. That does not work for a China that wants to win by intimidation rather than fighting.
I dont think so, they lost in 1979 with Vietnam, did it reduce their reputation?
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by John »

symontk wrote:
pankajs wrote: Also,

1. Different era means that the logic of Deng/Vietnam was does not hold good.

2. A loss with India will dent their reputation and make their other counterparts/neighbors more assertive/willing to fight. That does not work for a China that wants to win by intimidation rather than fighting.
I dont think so, they lost in 1979 with Vietnam, did it reduce their reputation?
They lost their sphere of influence in South East Asia and Soviet Union influence expanded over Vietnam.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by khan »

symontk wrote:I dont think so, they lost in 1979 with Vietnam, did it reduce their reputation?
The Peasant conscript army of 1979 didn’t have the same reputation as the one they are trying to cultivate today.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Anoop »

khan wrote:I just watched this
Very sober analysis. A bit shocking to hear that for about 6 months of the year, Leh is "practically cut off" as far as ground supplies are concerned and weight restrictions on aircraft impose limitations on stocking and resupply for forward deployment. Given this betrayal by China, IA will have to forward deploy like we did on the LoC after Kargil. Perhaps the LUH will prove to be the game changer like the Cheetah does in Siachen. Tough times, but as the IA recruitment poster says - "Tough times don't last, tough guys do". God speed.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by John »

symontk wrote:
yensoy wrote: I wonder what the IMF and other western lenders will say when they learn that their beggar likes the high life.

Pakis were supposed to not spend more than last year and they worked out a budget. This purchase of course will be coached as a previous commitment with deferred payment option vital to national security - but we need to go to town about how the Pakis are falling further into the Chinese debt trap and how their further funding should be completely cut off.


You bet, nothing is normal. Rather everything is normal, 2 front war as expected is taking shape. First the Pakis need to learn to fly these planes, unless they have already been trained.
I think Pak forces will fight us as mercenaries of Chinese, these could be gifts for the same. Soldiers with high altitude experience is not easy to come for china also. they will outsource
That J-10 article is from 2009.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Bharadwaj »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHf8WMwEqE4

43 Chinese Troops Killed In LAC Faceoff, No Funeral Or National Mourning | CNN News18
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by symontk »

John wrote:
symontk wrote:
I think Pak forces will fight us as mercenaries of Chinese, these could be gifts for the same. Soldiers with high altitude experience is not easy to come for china also. they will outsource
That J-10 article is from 2009.
Question is not on the article date, but on intentions. If you are a commander, wont you do all things that ensures your victory? You need to analyze each and every step in your backyard, before you move against a formidable force. Chinese are just doing that
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by symontk »

John wrote:
symontk wrote:
I dont think so, they lost in 1979 with Vietnam, did it reduce their reputation?
They lost their sphere of influence in South East Asia and Soviet Union influence expanded over Vietnam.
I dont think they lost anything, they got Hongkong, Macau, created Spartlay's issue, now even threatening Philippines. Don't underestimate your adversaries
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by wig »

U.S. Intel: China Ordered Attack on Indian Troops in Galwan River Valley

https://www.usnews.com/news/world-repor ... ver-valley
excerpts
Gen. Zhao Zongqi, head of the Western Theater Command and among the few combat veterans still serving in the People's Liberation Army, approved the operation along the contested border region of northern India and southwestern China, a source familiar with the assessment says on the condition of anonymity. Zhao, who has overseen prior standoffs with India, has previously expressed concerns that China must not appear weak to avoid exploitation by the United States and its allies, including in New Delhi, the source says, and saw the faceoff last week as a way to "teach India a lesson."

The assessment contradicts China's subsequent assertions about what happened last week. And it indicates the deadly and contentious incident – in which at least 20 Indian and 35 Chinese troops died, and reportedly a handful on each side were captured and subsequently released – was not the result of a tense circumstance that spiraled out of control, as has happened before, but rather a purposeful decision by Beijing to send a message of strength to India.
further
Zhao, who fought with the PLA during its brief but devastating war with Vietnam in 1979, believes Chinese generals mismanaged that conflict, according to the U.S. assessment. He was also involved in the Doklam standoff in 2017 along a different part of the China-India border, which ended when Indian troops forcibly pushed back Chinese forces before both countries agreed to a mutual withdrawal.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by yensoy »

ramana wrote:
LakshmanPST wrote:I think someone knowledgeable and experienced in BRF may consider preparing a few maps marking important passes and roads in Ladakh... That will be helpful for us to understand the overall picture...
NO.
You could educate yourself from this informative post and track places on wikimapia.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by yensoy »

khan wrote:Also, right at the end, the RAW guy said that Xi has two choices:
  • Find a face-saving off ramp.
  • Go for something bigger.
This is exactly the kind of decision Xi would face if he was sitting in a Macau casino. Swallow the losses or double the bet. And Xi didn't get to his position by taking the low risk way out, he is an inveterate gambler who keeps going for the bigger prize. As Nair sir said, hope this doesn't escalate but it looks like it will.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by khan »

yensoy wrote: This is exactly the kind of decision Xi would face if he was sitting in a Macau casino. Swallow the losses or double the bet. And Xi didn't get to his position by taking the low risk way out, he is an inveterate gambler who keeps going for the bigger prize. As Nair sir said, hope this doesn't escalate but it looks like it will.
I heard today’s very long meeting ended on a “positive note” - I hope IA is now working under the assumption that the PLA General was lying through his teeth the entire time.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Aditya_V »

Yes all logic says Xi mind is like Hitler, China has a great run for 30 years and all his gambles have paid off, so as long as it works he will go for the high risk strategy.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Roop »

symontk wrote:... they lost in 1979 with Vietnam, did it reduce their reputation?
It certainly did.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by habal »

I don't know why I have this lingering feeling all Indian politicians are just about the comission. What do you make of this newsclip, Rajnath goes to Moscow and will discuss speeding up S400s, Kilo submarines and T90 tanks on the agenda

T90 tanks on the agenda, in this day & age still India needs to import T90 tanks ? WtH.

And to boot Russians refuse any bilateral discussion to appease China. They have clearly pawned their balls away to China, so what exactly are we there at Def Min level for except T90, Kilo comissions. I am really miffed about this.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by symontk »

John wrote:
symontk wrote:
I dont think so, they lost in 1979 with Vietnam, did it reduce their reputation?
They lost their sphere of influence in South East Asia and Soviet Union influence expanded over Vietnam.
Vietnam always depended on Soviet / Russia, never where friends with Chinese. Chinese helped Vietnam for their own strategic influence reducing US one
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by symontk »

Roop wrote:
symontk wrote:... they lost in 1979 with Vietnam, did it reduce their reputation?
It certainly did.
Its OT, but do explain, what did Chinese lost?
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Iyersan »

I am getting info that ex servicemen are being called to service
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by pankajs »

Anoop wrote:
khan wrote:I just watched this
Very sober analysis. A bit shocking to hear that for about 6 months of the year, Leh is "practically cut off" as far as ground supplies are concerned and weight restrictions on aircraft impose limitations on stocking and resupply for forward deployment. Given this betrayal by China, IA will have to forward deploy like we did on the LoC after Kargil. Perhaps the LUH will prove to be the game changer like the Cheetah does in Siachen. Tough times, but as the IA recruitment poster says - "Tough times don't last, tough guys do". God speed.
One reason why GOI is furiously building tunnels along the border and also creating an more resilient secondary route from Himachal. These things have been on GOI's minds from 2014 onward.

One reason for Chinese mega push before the window of opportunity closes for ever.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Iyersan »

https://twitter.com/divyasoti/status/12 ... 38272?s=21
If RUMINT regarding Chinese buildup across Karakoram Pass is true, PLA has planned something for SSN from two sides. Pangong & Hot Springs are diversions. PLA is playing from classic gamebook. Pakistanis may also join in for another diversion. All this is already gamed by IA.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by schinnas »

Anoop wrote:
I am trying to understand the above report by Col. Vinayak Bhat. He says that the Chinese have started the diversion/damming of the Galwan river starting 40 km upstream of it's confluence with the Shyok. That work started in 2015-2016, so it stands to reason that they could create a channel in the middle of the stream since the water flow would be reduced. However, I couldn't tell from the photos whether the river was diverted (to where?) or whether the mountain side was dug up to create space for vehicles.

If this report is correct, how does it square with Abhijit Mitra's claim that the action on June 15/16 restored the flow of the river by damaging the structure? Col. Bhat refers to dozers and 2x JCB earthmovers in the photos as having "diverted" the river. If that is the case, it is conceivable that these equipment were upturned or otherwise damaged to the point of not functioning properly. That still leads to the question of what happens when the Chinese return to replace these. Their significant buildup all along the Galwan valley can't be wished away and presents this threat unless we reverse it.

<snip>
Abhijit Mitra didn't give any evidence (or even a strong claim) that our troops blasted the dam on Galwan river. The only thing he claimed to have noticed from satellite imagery is that the Galwan river is flowing fully after June 16th. It is very possible that the Chinese opened up the water flow to comply to demands by Indian side (in exchange for returning Chinese soldiers under IA custody - there was some rumour on SM that more Chinese soldiers were in IA custody than vice versa). Suggesting a covert deep inside Cheen operation without any evidence or statement by media is presumptuous on the part of Abhijit. Even if such an operation happened, we will never know unless GoI itself declassifies it for whatever reason.
ks_sachin
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by ks_sachin »

Anoop wrote:
khan wrote:I just watched this
Very sober analysis. A bit shocking to hear that for about 6 months of the year, Leh is "practically cut off" as far as ground supplies are concerned and weight restrictions on aircraft impose limitations on stocking and resupply for forward deployment. Given this betrayal by China, IA will have to forward deploy like we did on the LoC after Kargil. Perhaps the LUH will prove to be the game changer like the Cheetah does in Siachen. Tough times, but as the IA recruitment poster says - "Tough times don't last, tough guys do". God speed.

At least Leh has a proper road. Go to Western Sikkim to the Tibetean plateau....

Stocking a Brigade with three bn, an armed set, me and signals set as well as an Assan rifles bn for the winter because the bridge gave way due to a landslide is an interesting spectacle....
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Hari Seldon »

https://twitter.com/Prashant8730585/sta ... 05568?s=20
Colonel Vishal Dubey of 10 para.
Anyone can get goosebumps just by seeing his batches
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Hari Seldon
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Hari Seldon »

Has to do with the quality of men behind the machines, ultimately. And of the men (political leadership) behind the men manning the machines.
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