India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 31 Aug 2020 22:44

Some thekedar of Indian Orint media are ignoring China news completly. GDP is down 23% that is the news about BJP. Completly ignoring Corona issue. Chandu is giving siksha . Mera Bharat Mahan.

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 31 Aug 2020 22:56

williams wrote:The point of clash reported by Shukla is bogus. IA already has a strong presence there. Reqin area is more plausible.

Also the map here has more acurrate alignment of the claim lines.

In another tweet he accepts Indian Army occupied a hill after Chinese occupied 2.

This fellow is insanely hateful against India even after being Colonel? Why?

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 31 Aug 2020 23:05

Shooklow's only agenda is to run BJP down.

https://twitter.com/rahulkanwal/status/ ... 1890445313

For too long we have taken a hit and questions have been asked about what we were going to do. The Special Frontier Forces have shown immense daring. Big salute. The Dragon needs to be confronted. Cannot allow China to bully India. 1.3 billion people will strike back. Game on.

https://twitter.com/AartiTikoo/status/1 ... 4966422528

BREAKING @ians_india : China threatens that the situation along the Line of Actual Control in Ladakh is going to “escalate this time” since India “crossed the LAC at the border and purposely launched provocations.”

Again both tweets are contrary to the Shooklow's narrative.

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 31 Aug 2020 23:06

Shiv Aroor @ShivAroor

As details come in, here’s my prelim take on the latest #LadakhClash:
1. Chinese posture hasn’t even slightly changed following talks
2. Chinese fully focused on changing lines, occupying territory
3. Indian Army mobilised here in advance expecting precisely this
4. Trust now -∞

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 31 Aug 2020 23:14

Not inly Crooklaw, but Pappu dogs too. Just watch this India today debate, and an alien seeing that foul mouth Pawan Khera will not be mistaken to believe that ModiJi is the enemy, not Chincoms.

For Crooklaw and Pappu dogs, this is not about India beating back Chinese aggression, but to bring BJP down. They are rooting for war because that could potentially damage ModiJi’s image if things don’t go well. Blood traitors

https://youtu.be/DHyGNaUMPAE

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 31 Aug 2020 23:18

https://twitter.com/ani_digital/status/ ... 1855249408

Indian Army beats Chinese in occupying strategic height near Pangong lake southern bank

https://twitter.com/ReutersIndia/status ... 9057693697

JUST IN: Chinese military says it strongly demands India withdraw its troops from China-India border in order to avoid escalation of tension

Crooklow feeling China's pain.

abhishekm · Post by **abhishekm** » 31 Aug 2020 23:19

pankajs wrote:Shooklow's only agenda is to run BJP down.

https://twitter.com/rahulkanwal/status/ ... 1890445313
For too long we have taken a hit and questions have been asked about what we were going to do. The Special Frontier Forces have shown immense daring. Big salute. The Dragon needs to be confronted. Cannot allow China to bully India. 1.3 billion people will strike back. Game on.
https://twitter.com/AartiTikoo/status/1 ... 4966422528
BREAKING @ians_india : China threatens that the situation along the Line of Actual Control in Ladakh is going to “escalate this time” since India “crossed the LAC at the border and purposely launched provocations.”
Again both tweets are contrary to the Shooklow's narrative.

Not contrary to what Shoo Claw said. He said the Chinese captured 2 heights before (almost as an apology) adding that the Indians captured 1. It's likely there has been some give and take. Judging by the Han response they have lost more than what they gained. #GameOn

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 31 Aug 2020 23:21

^^
That info too will prove wrong with time. 2 for 1 would fit with the Chinese 2 steps forward and 1 step back strategy but they are in pain. Does not compute.

Iyersan · Post by **Iyersan** » 31 Aug 2020 23:23

We can expect a response from PLA. We have to ready for height of escalation and impact. It will definitely come

Iyersan · Post by **Iyersan** » 31 Aug 2020 23:23

At 15:00 hrs PLA units tried to take back the heights

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 31 Aug 2020 23:23

https://twitter.com/VishnuNDTV/status/1 ... 7342620676

Reqin, one of the areas identified by the Chinese as being under Indian Army control is a valley. By dominating the feature along its side and traversing the ridge, Indian Army soldiers could dominate the Chinese posts in Spanggur. We would be nearly 4 kms inside.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 31 Aug 2020 23:26

^^
4 Km in and threatening their Spanggur complex!

That is way more strategic than the Chinese Pangang Tso play.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 31 Aug 2020 23:27

Can anyone post a very recent map of the Pangong Tso lake, showing exactly the areas that India possesses, and the part totally controlled by China.
The map should include that section of the lake, which is entirely within India. And preferably depict the 'finger' areas which are under contention.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 31 Aug 2020 23:28

^^
Google Earth's LAC is a good approximation of the current position @ Pangang Tso

k prasad · Post by **k prasad** » 31 Aug 2020 23:30

Our control of the along the ridgeline also gives us the ability to put direct pressure on both the jeep track over the spur( https://www.google.com/maps/@33.6368882 ... a=!5m1!1e4), which can cut off chinese access to the lake from that track, as well as a commanding overlook on their entire Spanggur posts, which might be somewhat screened from our other ridgelines.

abhishekm · Post by **abhishekm** » 31 Aug 2020 23:37

Confirmation from Gobar Times that ingress was indeed at Reqin pass. Here's the only bit of the article that was not written in the style of a semi-literate 4th standard dropout:

China’s Western Theatre Command said Monday evening that Indian troops once again illegally crossed the Line of Actual Control near the south bank of the Pangong Lake and Reqin mountain pass on Monday, a blatant provocative move that seriously infringed on China’s territorial sovereignty, and undermined the peace and stability in the China-India border area. Earlier in the day, India, who first moved to accuse China of carrying out “provocative military movements,” said it preempted Chinese military activity.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1199476.shtml

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 31 Aug 2020 23:38

Looks like they have mined the approaches - leading to 2 casualties on the SFF side (one death, one injury). Gloves should be off now and fair game for us to mine the area as well.

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 31 Aug 2020 23:45

India captures Chinese camp in disputed Ladakh as violence erupts again between superpowers
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... ce-erupts/

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 31 Aug 2020 23:46

They must be made to pay a HEAVY price.

Preemptive & Punitive - this should be India's approach on any front.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 31 Aug 2020 23:52

If things go fully kinetic now in this sector - going all the way forward until we cut off G219 must be our objective. Nothing less will teach a lesson the enemy will remember. Nothing less can resolve this matter.

Lets take good care of the PoWs and treat them well for as long as its needed.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 31 Aug 2020 23:55

^^
Don't raise your expectation ... no such thing is going to happen. India just wants a return to status quo.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 31 Aug 2020 23:57

Indian troops have captured an important Chinese military post after allegedly fighting off an attempt by the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) to occupy further Indian territory in the disputed border region of Ladakh.

On Saturday evening, around 500 Chinese troops had tried to cross into Spanggur , a narrow valley near the village of Chushul and three hours of hand-to-hand combat ensued.

A senior Indian police source told the Telegraph the attack had been repulsed and a retaliatory special operations battalion seized a Chinese camp in the surrounding hills of Pangong Tso Lake in the early hours of this morning.
It has not commented on the nature of the clash or whether either side suffered any casualties.
Today, the Indian Government accused Beijing of “provocative military movements” three months after Chinese troops annexed 60 square kilometres of Indian territory in Ladakh.
The Chinese Foreign Ministry denied its troops crossed the disputed Line of Actual Control, which separates the two superpowers, and accused the Indian Army of occupying its territory.
“India’s move has seriously violated China’s territorial sovereignty, severely undermined the peace and stability of the Sino-Indian border area, and rebelled against this. China strongly opposed this,” said Zhang Shuili, a spokesperson for the People's Liberation Army Western Theatre Command.
“We solemnly request the Indian side to immediately withdraw its illegally crossing troops, strictly control and restrain the front-line troops, earnestly abide by its commitments, and avoid further escalation of the situation.”
A senior Indian police source warned the situation had the potential to escalate, saying its troops had opened “a new front” by pushing Chinese troops back and capturing territory near the village of Chushul.

Telegraph

If this is true then the Chinese whining is "Chor kotwal ko daante" story.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 01 Sep 2020 00:05

Which status quo you mean? pre 1962 ? Pre-salami slicing that has been going on for years? Pre-May ? Pre-<<choose year>> ?

Who the hell knows what status quo means exactly on each point when each other's maps and "perceptions" are totally different ?

This bloody confusion only helps the party intending to land grab. Time to set the mess straight, give a bloody nose, secure our territory as our maps have been depicting it - as Raja Hari Singh ceded it in 1947 - and move on to other things.

A strong nation cannot tolerate festering wounds.

RKumar · Post by **RKumar** » 01 Sep 2020 00:09

Let’s not celebrate too soon, the game is yet to start and we have to keep our guards up all along the border. Anything is possible from air strikes, cruise missiles, heavy art, MBRLs to dropping commandos behind enemy lines by both sides. Clear instructions should be out to down everything flying or moving without permission on or near the border

PS: Let’s hope our western adversary join the game sooner

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 01 Sep 2020 00:13

pankajs wrote:^^
Don't raise your expectation ... no such thing is going to happen. India just wants a return to status quo.

This would be a mistake if this is the mindset. The Chinese have no concept of 'status quo' has far as the entire border is concerned. The term literally refers to things being as they were. This has really never been the case, has it ? From their perspective, every part of it is something to potentially grab if opportunity presents itself, as leverage in negotiations elsewhere.

The Indian position has to match that, constantly harassing and threatening their strategic arteries to such an extent that they have to dedicate time, energy and resources to pushback, and to issue 'solemn requests' to us. Vely vely solemn onlee.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 01 Sep 2020 00:14

amar_p wrote:]Which status quo you mean? pre 1962 ? Pre-salami slicing that has been going on for years? Pre-May ? Pre-<<choose year>> ?

Who the hell knows what status quo means exactly on each point when each other's maps and "perceptions" are totally different ?

This bloody confusion only helps the party intending to land grab. Time to set the mess straight, give a bloody nose, secure our territory as our maps have been depicting it - as Raja Hari Singh ceded it in 1947 - and move on to other things.

A strong nation cannot tolerate festering wounds.

You haven't heard/read Indian position then on the matter?!!

Status quo prevailing as of April 2020. That is the official line and GOI means it. It neither has the time nor the resources to start a new adventure that much is clear from its official position and military posture since the Chinese aggression on LAC happened around May 2020.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 01 Sep 2020 00:16

Suraj wrote:
pankajs wrote:^^
Don't raise your expectation ... no such thing is going to happen. India just wants a return to status quo.
This would be a mistake if this is the mindset. The Chinese have no concept of 'status quo' has far as the entire border is concerned. The term literally refers to things being as they were. This has really never been the case, has it ? From their perspective, every part of it is something to potentially grab if opportunity presents itself, as leverage in negotiations elsewhere.

The Indian position has to match that, constantly harassing and threatening their strategic arteries to such an extent that they have to dedicate time, energy and resources to pushback, and to issue 'solemn requests' to us. Vely vely solemn onlee.

GOI's/IA's posture during the past 3-4 months is sufficient indicator of its line of thinking. They are now ready to launch a new adventure else we should have seen action quite a while back at least after Galwan.

RKumar · Post by **RKumar** » 01 Sep 2020 00:17

pankajs wrote:^^
Don't raise your expectation ... no such thing is going to happen. India just wants a return to status quo.

Will sino Play on our tune?, it seems PLA is not satisfied with what they already occupy and wants more. The statement from Mr Xi, does not give much comfort. It needs two to dance tango but sino is hell bent to hurt us.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 01 Sep 2020 00:42

https://m.economictimes.com/news/defenc ... ssion=true

A dominating feature known as `Black Top’ has emerged as the new flashpoint on the Sino-Indian border in eastern Ladakh after the People’s Liberation Army tried to occupy it late on Saturday night and create defensive positions.

Black Top is a strategic feature in the Chushul subsector that overlooks Indian posts along the southern bank of the Pangong Tso lake. Sources said that late on Saturday night, the Army detected movement of around 300 PLA soldiers with equipment for constructing fortifications near Black Top.

Sources said that 300 PLA troops have taken positions on a nearby feature known as Helmet Top. They are believed to be in possession of construction material used for fortifications.

Read more in the link

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 01 Sep 2020 00:44

Lt Gen Tej Sapru (R)
@tksapru

The Chinese are explicitly conveying one message: the LAC is where they perceive it to be; and that our claim line has no relevance, whatsoever.
Even the theme of their arguments/ claims during the several rounds of talks, as known from the media, precisely conforms to this stand

https://mobile.twitter.com/tksapru/stat ... 1656289281

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 01 Sep 2020 00:52

Laaton ke bhoot....

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 01 Sep 2020 01:04

amar_p wrote:Laaton ke bhoot....

??

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 01 Sep 2020 01:12

RKumar wrote:
pankajs wrote:^^
Don't raise your expectation ... no such thing is going to happen. India just wants a return to status quo.
Will sino Play on our tune?, it seems PLA is not satisfied with what they already occupy and wants more. The statement from Mr Xi, does not give much comfort. It needs two to dance tango but sino is hell bent to hurt us.

Well if the PLA persists we will have a violent clash at the LAC and one side, probably the Chinese, will get it hard. Then we will reach some sort of a temporary truce.

Remember my reply was in response to a suggestion that India should march up to G219. I don't see that happening even if the clashes spread to multiple points along the LAC. Whatever happens, India will keep the conflict around the LAC is my thesis given GOI's behavior till date. Our is still a defensive posture.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 01 Sep 2020 01:27

Everyone please keep a level head. I realise that it might be hard to do, please try.

Otherwise bans will come. Contribute to the discussion in a meaningful way. Otherwise, just be a lurker and read.

Thank You for your co-operation.

k prasad · Post by **k prasad** » 01 Sep 2020 01:34

Qn: Do our border protocols with China ban the use of landmines along the LAC, or within a certain distance of the LAC? If so, wouldn't the Chinese mining of the approaches violate this agreement?

Here's good source with maps:

https://thewire.in/security/india-china ... angong-tso

Though the statement did not say so, the Indian Army is believed to have rushed some 800 soldiers to Chushul, just south of the lake.

...

As per Indian government sources quoted by PTI, a “sizeable” number of Chinese troops were moving towards the southern bank in an attempt to occupy the area. Sources added that there had been “no physical skirmishes”. While the Chinese were sent back to an extent, they continue to be in the vicinity.

Interestingly, Thakung, which lies firmly on the Indian side of the LAC, is within the China’s 1960 claim line. This suggests the PLA may be working to a plan on the south bank of Pangong Tso of pushing the LAC westward. On the north bank, however, the PLA has moved beyond even its traditional claim line.

Iyersan · Post by **Iyersan** » 01 Sep 2020 01:38

Rakesh wrote:Colonel Puri is waiting confirmation to determine small and medium arms or artillery fire.

Do we in BR know Col. Purie to give authentic information?

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 01 Sep 2020 01:40

k prasad wrote:Qn: Do our border protocols with China ban the use of landmines along the LAC, or within a certain distance of the LAC? If so, wouldn't the Chinese mining of the approaches violate this agreement?

Agreements signed by the Chinese is not worth the paper it is signed on.

And perception of adherence to the agreement by the Chinese to just to give them time.

k prasad · Post by **k prasad** » 01 Sep 2020 01:45

Rakesh wrote:
k prasad wrote:Qn: Do our border protocols with China ban the use of landmines along the LAC, or within a certain distance of the LAC? If so, wouldn't the Chinese mining of the approaches violate this agreement?
Agreements signed by the Chinese is not worth the paper it is signed on.

It never was, Rakeshji, but it is something 'in writing' that gives us explicit justification for counter-action. I mean, in general, international agreements by themselves aren't worth anything. Their power lies in the fact that the agreement gives the transgressed side the justification for use of force.

From the map above, if we have indeed captured both Helmet top and Black top, while Helmet top seems to be on the Google Maps LAC, Black top is about 1.5 km on the chinese side.

Control of Black top especially gives us a significant tactical advantage as a point overlooking the entire Spanggur Pass and Spanggur Tso region, as well as overlook control of the chinese jeep trail towards Thakung.

RKumar · Post by **RKumar** » 01 Sep 2020 01:48

Rakesh wrote:
k prasad wrote:Qn: Do our border protocols with China ban the use of landmines along the LAC, or within a certain distance of the LAC? If so, wouldn't the Chinese mining of the approaches violate this agreement?
Agreements signed by the Chinese is not worth the paper it is signed on.

But if there are causality on our side due to their breach of one more protocol, it is making our case stronger at the international stage.

Om Shanti to the fallen!

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 01 Sep 2020 01:59

Theoretically, our perception of LAC encompasses the erstwhile territory controlled by the princely state of Kashmir. So no matter how much we go we dont cross the LAC until we reach the borders of Aksai Hind. Request visa free access to Manasarovar/Mount Kailash please