India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Locked
pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14746
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by pankajs »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nI43tH9NnZA
India's LAC Moves Show Eagerness To Raise Political Level Of Talks: China Analyst Taylor Fravel

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14746
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by pankajs »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSsfWJiHhts
'China May Provoke Some Incident With India As A Face Saving Escape'

Y I Patel
BRFite
Posts: 781
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Y I Patel »

Thanks Ankit. Phurchuk La offers pretty good + protected access to the ridge line. It will permit a sustainable presence on that ridge for Indian forces; I suspect protecting access to that pass must have been the major priority of the preemptive operation.

Yula La is a bit to the east of the zig zaggy route up the other pass that Kala Top overlooks, and gives access to the gully between the ridge line and the isolated peak on the north bank of Spangur Tso. Looks like it is another important point of access for the Chinese between south bank of Panogong Tso and north bank of Spangur Tso. Yula is almost directly south of Sirijap (terminus of Finger 8 ) and looks like there might be a Chinese base there (based on maps, not google maps). If India can gain control over Yula La as well, it can seal off practically the entire Spangur Tso from the Chinese...
Anoop
BRFite
Posts: 632
Joined: 16 May 2002 11:31

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Anoop »

https://youtu.be/zYA50U1FSUI

If you can hold in your laughter at the plug for the P8-I to show what is essentially GE terrain and some CGI of posts, then you can make it through to the useful snippets starting around 19 mins. The Rechin La spot is covered around 29 mins and its' location is as LakshmanPST pointed out.
pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14746
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by pankajs »

Co-ordinates of Yula La from my GE markings for those interested. If one zooms close enough, one can see a thin track right up to the top of the pass from Spanggur tso side. There is no track created yet for motor transport.

Yula La: 33°37'56.55"N 78°52'17.76"E
manjgu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2615
Joined: 11 Aug 2006 10:33

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by manjgu »

Ankit Desai wrote:
hanumadu wrote:
Why do you wan't to push for status quo ante when they are on the back foot. Chinese being chinese will do this again, probably better planned and better trained next time. Losing some ground is temporary. We can't let the chinese go without punishing for their misadventures.
Please read those five points again. What makes you think PLA is on the back foot ?

Only two things change since PLA stopped IA going from finger 4 to 8 & Stopped Depsang patrol going where they used to patrol.

1. IA is on heights of hills of south bank of Pangong Tso, which make them over look Moldo and area between patrol point 27 to Requin La. Which is no doubt better than IA's own position before Aug 29 but IA is neither stopping PLA going from east or south to Moldo neither any sq km area obtained.
If we go by capturing height & over looking posts logic than IA lost finger 3 too, refer my second post. One would see similar structures from ridge line of finger 4 to ridge lien of finger 3.

2. IA is in "advantageous" position than before in respect to finger 4 ridge line. BUT still did not pass finger 4. IA may be able to over look up to finger 5 and that's it. What kind of advantage at gogra post, hotspring area or Depsang plains, no idea (Please post if you have any news).

In term of obtaining Sq km area very very much less than what we lost to PLA since it has stated.

Euphoria in news can only be justified if presented with proof. At things stand today I did not come across any proof of significant gain to not go to status quo ante as of April/May.

-Ankit
1) IMHO..the use of guns is one big plus for us not to go back to status quo ante. Enough of lathi charge and fist fights. one cardinal principle of chini art of war atleast in present times is to avoid casualties. In my book the thing which must be troubling PLA the most is the use of firearms by IA.

2) we lost control of area upto f4 in 1999 ...when the PLA built a road to F4 from f8. ( the thing that beats me why did we vacate area ahead of f4 during kargil..i mean we have a huge army and could have kept forces ahead of F4 even with kargil happening?) beats me..

3) i dont know much abt depsang etc intrusion and what it means

4) the advantage is we can threaten PLA which we could not do if we go to status quo ante. If we rollback to status quo ante what prevents PLA from occupying all the heights we are now on? they can climb the tops and motor down to F4 from F8 before we can say Jai HInd.

YIP ..can u make a hand drawn map of all imp features/passes/areas observed from the heights...will be great education for all..thnx
Anoop
BRFite
Posts: 632
Joined: 16 May 2002 11:31

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Anoop »

Y I Patel wrote:If India can gain control over Yula La as well, it can seal off practically the entire Spangur Tso from the Chinese...
That may be a bit of stretch. They have a strong garrison at 33°24'29.51"N, 79°11'50.47"E to the west of Spanggur Tso with roads that lead to both the north and south banks of the lake, which incidentally is intended to reinforce the Richin La approach as well. This garrison is connected to their Rutong garrison at 33°24'18.49"N, 79°38'48.00"E.

But the Spanggur Gap can certainly be defended far better than it was earlier.
rpartha
BRFite
Posts: 136
Joined: 24 Sep 2016 00:04

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by rpartha »

X posting from Roads thread... thought this road will take years to get ready... impressive... Nimmu Padam Darcha road...

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 1xdp46fVML
pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14746
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by pankajs »

Anoop wrote:
Y I Patel wrote:If India can gain control over Yula La as well, it can seal off practically the entire Spangur Tso from the Chinese...
That may be a bit of stretch. They have a strong garrison at 33°24'29.51"N, 79°11'50.47"E to the west of Spanggur Tso with roads that lead to both the north and south banks of the lake, which incidentally is intended to reinforce the Richin La approach as well. This garrison is connected to their Rutong garrison at 33°24'18.49"N, 79°38'48.00"E.

But the Spanggur Gap can certainly be defended far better than it was earlier.
IMHO, that cluster of structures is not a garrison from what I have seen while checking various paths to LAC from G219. Chinese garrison are planned/built differently.

This is purely my own conclusion based on map reading wonlee, but such cluster usually represent peasant housing, in this case for Tibetans whose village/land has been acquired/sinicised either at the spot or of surrounding areas.

This differentiation between peasant housing vs garrison is clear at the Chinese side of Demchok where they are side by side. Over there, to confirm my hunch, I went back in time as is allowed by Google earth and was able to confirm that the "peasant housing" indeed used to be a typical Tibetan village before being sinicised.
csharma
BRFite
Posts: 694
Joined: 12 Jul 1999 11:31

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by csharma »

https://www.sundayguardianlive.com/news ... dden-story

The story of India's military action late last month.
Surprised and shocked, the Chinese mustered their club wielding troops and advanced towards the positions now held by the Indians. More shock was in wait. The Indians troops warned the advancing troops, but the PLA men continued with their advance. The Indians had to fire a few warning shots in the air, and this brought in new realities to the fore. The Chinese, on seeing the aggressive posture, fled, only to return a little later.

This time they came with their armoured personnel carriers, driving on their cemented road from Moldo to Rezang La. But this advance also came to a halt and was followed by a hasty retreat. The Indian troops were at a stone’s throw from the Moldo garrison, dominating each and every move of the PLA. The sight of anti-tank missiles and rocket launchers had deterred the move of the Chinese armoured personnel carrier and halted them in their tracks.

The Chinese had realised by now that they were not only outnumbered but totally out-flanked, making their position untenable. Any armed clash hereafter would prove suicidal. The annihilation of Moldo garrison was assured for the Chinese had clashes erupted. The Indians by now were firmly dug in.

The way of doing business on the borders with China has undergone a paradigm shift. In the past five decades this was the first ever offensive operation carried out against the Chinese. The initiative is now with India; the shoe is on the other foot. Having enhanced India’s negotiating power manifold, the unthinkable so far is now a new reality
k prasad
BRFite
Posts: 962
Joined: 21 Oct 2007 17:38
Location: Somewhere over the Rainbow
Contact:

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by k prasad »

The interesting thing about latest Chinese statements is the sudden harping about us violating the LAC, when they have recently publicly stated that the border isn't demarcated, and have repeatedly refused to share maps of their claim line. Let's hoist them by their own petard, and use these statements to change the LAC with further 'readjustments', just as they have tried, and turn it into a fait accompli. To hell with LAC, let's assert our claim line according to our version of the International Border. It'll be an escalation, sure, but what has seeking peace ever brought us?

Our deployment at Rezang La, Reqin La, and the Spanggur Gap allows us to both see Chinese movements, but also attack their Spanggur south bank positions from multiple axes, and flank any assault they might make from their side. Additionally, with control of Kala Top and Helmet top, their positions along the pass near Thakung becomes tenuous, adding another axis of attack. Our jeep trail access to Thakung from North of Chushul also seems relatively easier than for the Chinese (see the trails leading from 33°40'18.8"N 78°42'09.8"E), but we need to convert that to a tank/APC-capable black-top road as soon as possible.

If possible, we should try and get Kala Top proper and hold it, and then also assert our own version of the LAC which is further east of the Google Maps, connecting between the foot of the ridge at 33°34'46.2"N 78°46'02.2"E to the ridge along 33°33'35.7"N 78°47'09.4"E. Not only will that provide about 3 km of additional buffer, and potentially allow the Chushul ALG to be screened from the Chinese enough for it to be reactivated, but it will also create a couple more chokepoints for Chinese positions all around Spanggur Tso.
Roop
BRFite
Posts: 670
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Roop »

Y I Patel wrote: Other interesting tid bit from Snehesh Alex Philip's twitter feed - Army used "tactical signaling" to "dissuade" PLA from advancing towards Kala Top. I think this is an euphemism for firing in the air...
May be, but I have a different theory (speculation, really): I think it means that IA reached the summit before the Chinese, observed the latter trying to make their way up the hill and fired illumination flares to light up the night sky, as if to say, "We can see you, and if you don't turn back right away, we will start shooting". IMO this is what caused the PLA brats to go fleeing back to base in panic.

Edited: After reading that excellent article in the Sunday Guardian, it is clear that your theory was correct, we did indeed fire in the air. Mubarak ho!
Last edited by Roop on 06 Sep 2020 11:22, edited 1 time in total.
pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14746
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by pankajs »

k prasad wrote:The interesting thing about latest Chinese statements is the sudden harping about us violating the LAC, when they have recently publicly stated that the border isn't demarcated, and have repeatedly refused to share maps of their claim line. Let's hoist them by their own petard, and use these statements to change the LAC with further 'readjustments', just as they have tried, and turn it into a fait accompli. To hell with LAC, let's assert our claim line according to our version of the International Border. It'll be an escalation, sure, but what has seeking peace ever brought us?

Our deployment at Rezang La, Reqin La, and the Spanggur Gap allows us to both see Chinese movements, but also attack their Spanggur south bank positions from multiple axes, and flank any assault they might make from their side. Additionally, with control of Kala Top and Helmet top, their positions along the pass near Thakung becomes tenuous, adding another axis of attack. Our jeep trail access to Thakung from North of Chushul also seems relatively easier than for the Chinese (see the trails leading from 33°40'18.8"N 78°42'09.8"E), but we need to convert that to a tank/APC-capable black-top road as soon as possible.

If possible, we should try and get Kala Top proper and hold it, and then also assert our own version of the LAC which is further east of the Google Maps, connecting between the foot of the ridge at 33°34'46.2"N 78°46'02.2"E to the ridge along 33°33'35.7"N 78°47'09.4"E. Not only will that provide about 3 km of additional buffer, and potentially allow the Chushul ALG to be screened from the Chinese enough for it to be reactivated, but it will also create a couple more chokepoints for Chinese positions all around Spanggur Tso.
I am with you on this and I am sure that GOI is smart enough to spot the doublespeak. However, that would mean opening the whole front to re-adjustment from either side and GOI is not prepared for that. Their philosophy seems to be to let sleeping dogs sleep and let what is "considered" settled portion of LAC be as it is. Of course the Chinese might claim any "settled" portion as unsettled tomorrow but that is for tomorrow when GOI will be much better prepared.

I hope this is a wake up call for GOI to build massive infra and ISR capability to be able to open the whole LAC someday not in too distant a future.
k prasad
BRFite
Posts: 962
Joined: 21 Oct 2007 17:38
Location: Somewhere over the Rainbow
Contact:

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by k prasad »

csharma wrote:https://www.sundayguardianlive.com/news ... dden-story

The story of India's military action late last month.
Excellent piece... finally we get much-needed details of the operation. It still isn't clear who holds Black Top proper, but this quote seems very interesting:
At the word go, these troops crossed over into the enemy claimed territory with lightning speed
Roop wrote: May be, but I have a different theory (speculation, really): I think it means that IA reached the summit before the Chinese, observed the latter trying to make their way up the hill and fired illumination flares to light up the night sky, as if to say, "We can see you, and if you don't turn back right away, we will start shooting". IMO this is what caused the PLA brats to go fleeing back to base in panic.
The piece that csharma shared mentions firing in the air.
rpartha wrote:X posting from Roads thread... thought this road will take years to get ready... impressive... Nimmu Padam Darcha road...

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 1xdp46fVML
Aapke muun mein ghee shakkar, Parthaji! Well, I'll provide the ghee. IA will handle the Shakkar :-P.
csharma
BRFite
Posts: 694
Joined: 12 Jul 1999 11:31

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by csharma »

Mountain Strike Corps showed what they are made of. Instead of being defensive everywhere, India needs to attack like this.
pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14746
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by pankajs »

For your perusal .. Indian claim line is our International border.

https://www.indiatoday.in/news-analysis ... 2020-09-03
Chinese Army constructs post south of Ladakh's Spanggur Tso

Image
Image
Last edited by pankajs on 06 Sep 2020 10:44, edited 3 times in total.
pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14746
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by pankajs »

While it is good new the "Nimmu Padam Darcha" road still one tunnel away from being all weather but that should be done in 2-3 years.
Anoop
BRFite
Posts: 632
Joined: 16 May 2002 11:31

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Anoop »

pankajs wrote:
IMHO, that cluster of structures is not a garrison from what I have seen while checking various paths to LAC from G219. Chinese garrison are planned/built differently.
This is purely my own conclusion based on map reading wonlee, but such cluster usually represent peasant housing, in this case for Tibetans whose village/land has been acquired/sinicised either at the spot or of surrounding areas.
Hmm, I see it differently. You can see the fence around three sides of this settlement. Each structure is around 100 ft long (there is a single unbroken shadow for each structure to the North, implying it is a single building), suggesting barracks. The brownish rectangles on either side of the "barracks" could be motor transport housing and/or firing ranges. Furthermore, it is not situated near a stream or river bed which is where you might expect a civilian settlement to be, because they don't have the luxury of water being transported by truck.
This differentiation between peasant housing vs garrison is clear at the Chinese side of Demchok where they are side by side. Over there, to confirm my hunch, I went back in time as is allowed by Google earth and was able to confirm that the "peasant housing" indeed used to be a typical Tibetan village before being sinicised.
If you are referring to 32°41'39.52"N, 79°27'34.33"E in Demchok, which came up only in 2012 yes it is much more elaborate and looks different from the one near Rutong. But you can also see new construction at 32°41'33.56"N, 79°27'55.77"E similar to the one referred to above. I don't know if the native Tibetans are even present at these places or have been sent to "re-education camps" in Lhasa.
k prasad
BRFite
Posts: 962
Joined: 21 Oct 2007 17:38
Location: Somewhere over the Rainbow
Contact:

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by k prasad »

pankajs wrote:
k prasad wrote:The interesting thing about latest Chinese statements is the sudden harping about us violating the LAC, when they have recently publicly stated that the border isn't demarcated, and have repeatedly refused to share maps of their claim line. Let's hoist them by their own petard, and use these statements to change the LAC with further 'readjustments', just as they have tried, and turn it into a fait accompli. To hell with LAC, let's assert our claim line according to our version of the International Border. It'll be an escalation, sure, but what has seeking peace ever brought us?
I am with you on this and I am sure that GOI is smart enough to spot the doublespeak. However, that would mean opening the whole front to re-adjustment from either side and GOI is not prepared for that. Their philosophy seems to be to let sleeping dogs sleep and let what is "considered" settled portion of LAC be as it is. Of course the Chinese might claim any "settled" portion as unsettled tomorrow but that is for tomorrow when GOI will be much better prepared.

I hope this is a wake up call for GOI to build massive infra and ISR capability to be able to open the whole LAC someday not in too distant a future.
Totally agreed, pankaj-sirjee! In a year or two, we will certainly be much better placed, given the number of projects and acquisitions that are slated to come online. But, we need to start planning for it today.

One thing... Its time to flip the script and force them into an uncomfortable situation by expanding the region of uncertainty. As Gen Danvir Singh's article states, for far too long we have been passive, forced into a "defender's syndrome", which allows the PLA to rest troops well behind the lines, and not expend energy on patrolling and deployment at the heights, where they will certainly face significant attrition and drop in morale.

Galwan has made it amply clear that the Chinese consider the entire LAC to be alterable. The sanctity of the LAC is non-existent now. Whether we change our views or not, we are forced to deploy in defense across the LAC in anticipation of the next great Chinese misadventure. Unless we muddy the waters, the Chinese will continue to hold the cards, and be able to ingress at the time and place of their choosing, all while sitting back in their AC hyperbaric tents. The only way to inflict any discomfort on the PLA is to force them into similar widespread deployment, which will require us to unilaterally change the LAC.

We can do this in a gradual manner ('Prior IA deployment and patrolling positions' --> 'Our LAC interpretation is so-and-so' --> 'LAC is undemarcated here' --> 'LAC is no longer valid given the abrogation of agreements by PLA') over time, but we should absolutely be strengthening our strategic positioning for when things eventually go kinetic, whether its a 1 yr, 2 yrs, or a decade.
Suraj
Forum Moderator
Posts: 15043
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Suraj »

The most important piece from that excellent Sunday Guardian article is that right down from PM, it has been decided that the 50 year old static defense approach is to be discarded . Indian policy at every level towards LAC will be more effectively mirror the Chinese one.

Given that IA already has substantial experience, they are much more suited to this approach than to doing static defense with clubs - an unworkable approach that was being conducted with tools beneath their stature.
csharma
BRFite
Posts: 694
Joined: 12 Jul 1999 11:31

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by csharma »

China will also think twice before provoking India because now India can also do a countermove.
k prasad
BRFite
Posts: 962
Joined: 21 Oct 2007 17:38
Location: Somewhere over the Rainbow
Contact:

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by k prasad »

Exactly!!! A bully won't stop hitting you if you only keep blocking his punches. He'll stop hitting when you decide to hit back... even one strong hit is enough, so the next time he thinks of punching, he won't know if and where you'll hit back.
Suraj
Forum Moderator
Posts: 15043
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Suraj »

Also it is important to note that the PM demanded a change of the static defense posture . His messaging could not be clearer - he ordered the army to only negotiate from a position of strength and therefore to build up negotiating power whenever they needed to . This ensures that the political class are not at odds with what the armed forces consider the right thing to do.
banrjeer
BRFite
Posts: 439
Joined: 21 Dec 2008 14:39

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by banrjeer »

https://twitter.com/SherineBalti/status ... 02/photo/1

Human chain ferrying water and supplies to troops stationed at vantage points. Is this real ?
logistics seem exposed and flimsy.
g.sarkar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4382
Joined: 09 Jul 2005 12:22
Location: MERCED, California

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by g.sarkar »

I remember local porters were also used during Kargil war. In addition, Indian army uses mules for transportation of food and ammunition. Remember, only chikna girlie soldiers of the lizard army need SUVs to move around.
Gautam
pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14746
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by pankajs »

Per this piece, the Chinese seem to be aiming per their 1960 map.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... kTOAL.html
China’s PLA in race to reach the green line in Ladakh
The Chinese People’s Liberation Army (PLA), under commander-in-chief Xi Jinping, defines its Tibet border with Ladakh by a green line that runs over finger 4 relief feature on the north bank of Pangong Tso and nearly claims all the Chushul Valley on the south banks of the salt-water body. This line was defined by the Chinese on the map in 1960 and since then it is the ambition of each ruler of ‘forbidden city’ to reach that objective.
mody
BRFite
Posts: 1362
Joined: 18 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Mumbai, India

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by mody »

Hari Nair
BRFite
Posts: 338
Joined: 20 Aug 2010 17:37
Location: Bangalore

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Hari Nair »

banrjeer wrote:https://twitter.com/SherineBalti/status ... 02/photo/1

Human chain ferrying water and supplies to troops stationed at vantage points. Is this real ?
logistics seem exposed and flimsy.
The caption states that these are volunteers from the villages walking up the slopes.
So its reasonable to to assume that's what this is - volunteers pitching in- which incidentally, I have personally witnessed during exercises in the region.

If anybody assumes that these are "logistics - exposed and flimsy" - then dream on... :)
Cyrano
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5481
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 01:07

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Cyrano »

Awesome sequence of events !
Kakarat
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2225
Joined: 26 Jan 2005 13:59

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Kakarat »

https://twitter.com/detresfa_/status/13 ... 0030754816
Change detection satellite images via social media in #China seem to have spotted #India's new positions on the hilltops south of #PangongTso looking directly at the PLA camp at #Moldo

Location :- https://www.google.com/maps/place/33%C2 ... 61!5m1!1e4
GIF
https://twitter.com/i/status/1302119100030754816
Deans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2509
Joined: 26 Aug 2004 19:13
Location: Moscow

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Deans »

Hari Nair wrote:
banrjeer wrote:https://twitter.com/SherineBalti/status ... 02/photo/1

Human chain ferrying water and supplies to troops stationed at vantage points. Is this real ?
logistics seem exposed and flimsy.
The caption states that these are volunteers from the villages walking up the slopes.
So its reasonable to to assume that's what this is - volunteers pitching in- which incidentally, I have personally witnessed during exercises in the region.

If anybody assumes that these are "logistics - exposed and flimsy" - then dream on... :)
This is actually where IA has the advantage in logistics. A large part of the civilian population in our mountains are available as porters. They aren't just paid labor. Every village in the hills has people in the army and loyalty to the army is high. Porters who have spent their lives at high altitude can carry as much as a trained soldier and free up the army for other tasks. The Chinese do not have a local population who can do that. Those Tibetans that might be available have questionable loyalty. Mountain warfare requires a lot of manpower. Chinese formations who have sacrificed manpower for mechanization and tech, in Eleven's military reorganization, may find that a lot of their infantry is being used as porters.Irrespective of how hi-tech your army is, loads have to be carried up mountain tracks which vehicles cannot access.
Last edited by Deans on 06 Sep 2020 16:14, edited 1 time in total.
pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14746
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by pankajs »

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 2491955201
OSINT: PLA linked SM site mods claim that Black Top had Chinese surveillance equipment to spy on Indian troops in F-2 of Pangong from PLA Quidi Sengela post . CCTV reporter Wang Juan once with PLA troops visited Black top & it was broadcast on State TV.
Image
Deans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2509
Joined: 26 Aug 2004 19:13
Location: Moscow

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Deans »

pankajs wrote:https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 2491955201
OSINT: PLA linked SM site mods claim that Black Top had Chinese surveillance equipment to spy on Indian troops in F-2 of Pangong from PLA Quidi Sengela post . CCTV reporter Wang Juan once with PLA troops visited Black top & it was broadcast on State TV.
I don;'t think Chinese backed propaganda sites should be given any publicity.
abhik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3090
Joined: 02 Feb 2009 17:42

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by abhik »

^^^
On the other hand I would love to see the video (it's apparently from last year) there are a few screen grabs posted in a different forum - while we are trying to wrack our brains on Black Top and others, it's got on the ground shots on and from different points on the Chinese side, including the zigzag path to Black Top. I hope someone posts it to YT.
darshan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4018
Joined: 28 Jan 2008 04:16

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by darshan »

Are there any collection of funds going for border population?
Deans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2509
Joined: 26 Aug 2004 19:13
Location: Moscow

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Deans »

darshan wrote:Are there any collection of funds going for border population?
With Ladakh becoming a UT separate from Kashmir, there should be more funding and development.
darshan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4018
Joined: 28 Jan 2008 04:16

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by darshan »

Deans wrote:
darshan wrote:Are there any collection of funds going for border population?
With Ladakh becoming a UT separate from Kashmir, there should be more funding and development.
I meant fundraisers or charities from rest of Bharatiyas who can't be there but want to be part of the cause.
vijayk
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8785
Joined: 22 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by vijayk »

R Jagannathan
@TheJaggi
Good to know that India has learnt the art of diplomatic hypocrisy. Till now only the Chinese did this well. Now we can talk diplomacy and silently take the heights at Pangong Tso.... way to go
Quote Tweet

ThePrintIndia
@ThePrintIndia
· Sep 3
Have known Chinese foreign minister for long, solution lies in diplomacy, Jaishankar says
@NayanimaBasu reports
#ThePrintForeignAffairs
rajkhalsa
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 45
Joined: 13 Apr 2005 09:55

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by rajkhalsa »

India-China Conflict: India's Victory of 1967 and the 2020 Clash | Probal DasGupta
The Indian army veteran and author of Watershed 1967: India’s forgotten victory over China, Probal DasGupta talks of the Indo-China relations, particularly the lesser known incidents of 1967.

The present standoff in Ladakh has raised questions of war and has brought up the historic narrative between the two countries. today. For fifty years, the event that dominated our memories was the 1962 India-China war, which India lost. However, the present crisis has focused on India’s victory over China in 1967. Probal’s book Watershed 1967 has played a significant role in reshaping the India-China narrative.
In this talk he discusses China’s motives and India’s options today, and how 1967 is relevant in the current India-China skirmishes.

About the Speaker:

Probal DasGupta is an Indian army veteran and author of Watershed 1967: India’s forgotten victory over China. Probal is a regular commentator on strategic affairs and also a business leader. He studied at Columbia University (USA), where he was a Braun-Myers Fellow and Tata Scholar and is now a guest lecturer at Columbia.
Mort Walker
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10033
Joined: 31 May 2004 11:31
Location: The rings around Uranus.

Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

Post by Mort Walker »

Is there any estimate of how many PLA troops there are in Moldo and what are their supply lines?
Locked