IAF Jaguars & IL-78s in Italy

Vishnu · Post by **Vishnu** » 28 Jun 2004 12:43

Hi Guys ... emailed all my pics to Shiv ... These are the IAF jets at an air base outside Rome enroute to Alaska for Cope Thunder 2004 ... Very impressive ... Big Il-78 did a huge 2 G peel off just over the runway ... followed by the Jags ... The Italians have never seen anything like this ... All in all a fun day for me ... on holiday here in Rome ... BTW ... of the 16 Jag pilots, most are TACDE ... some of the others are on their way to TACDE ... morale is high ... The IAF has asked the USAF to train with them on parity since we know what happened when the USAF rated us "inferior" the last time round ... The tough thing though ... air defence for the Jags will be provided by the Japs and pilots from other o****ries ... I hope they are good ...
Shiv pls put up the pics SOON ...

Cheers
Vishnu Som
NDTV 24/7

Bhairav · Post by **Bhairav** » 28 Jun 2004 13:03

Awesome pics,Vishnu. I saw them at AFM Forums right now, amazing!

daulat · Post by **daulat** » 28 Jun 2004 13:24

japanese are not so bad at air defence, good kit and lots of training with usaf. would be good for iaf to learn how to work with others - if only to expose or reinforce issues in their own competence and training

are the jags doing a goodwill fly by through europe? what is their schedule?

Vishnu · Post by **Vishnu** » 28 Jun 2004 13:49

No good will tour as such ... They have a long complicated route ... which goes something like this ... Ambala-Jamnagar-Qatar-Egypt-Italy-Portugal-the Azores-Canada East (forget name of base)- Northbay (Canada)-Edmonton-Alaska ...

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 28 Jun 2004 14:10

Great pictures. I've also already checked them out the other forum.

It might be good to archive them here as well.

daulat · Post by **daulat** » 28 Jun 2004 14:15

Originally posted by Vishnu Som:
No good will tour as such ... They have a long complicated route ... which goes something like this ... Ambala-Jamnagar-Qatar-Egypt-Italy-Portugal-the Azores-Canada East (forget name of base)- Northbay (Canada)-Edmonton-Alaska ...

azores to newfoundland/labrador is a long hop, be a good 5-6 hrs. i guess they'll practice refuelling on that leg, but safety will be an issue? much easier to go UK, Iceland, Greenland, Labrador. perhaps part of the deployment is to test such a far from base long leg?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 28 Jun 2004 14:33

www.bharat-rakshak.com/Temp/test1.jpg
www.bharat-rakshak.com/Temp/test2.jpg
www.bharat-rakshak.com/Temp/test3.jpg
www.bharat-rakshak.com/Temp/test4.jpg
www.bharat-rakshak.com/Temp/test5.jpg
www.bharat-rakshak.com/Temp/test6.jpg
www.bharat-rakshak.com/Temp/test7.jpg
www.bharat-rakshak.com/Temp/test8.jpg
www.bharat-rakshak.com/Temp/test10.jpg
www.bharat-rakshak.com/Temp/test12.jpg
www.bharat-rakshak.com/Temp/test13.jpg

Vishnu · Post by **Vishnu** » 28 Jun 2004 15:16

They've actually been doing at least 2 refuellings every leg ... This is to ensure that the Jags are topped up in case they have to divert to a diversionary airfield ... One of the Jags that came into Italy had a cabin pressure problem but decided to press ahead albeit at a lower altitude ...

Vishnu

Indrajit · Post by **Indrajit** » 28 Jun 2004 15:32

Great pics Vishnu,wanna see some more.

CPrakash · Post by **CPrakash** » 28 Jun 2004 15:35

Good pics - But can we have some good quality Digital pics than these video grabs?

or better yet, when do we get to see the video clips/

daulat · Post by **daulat** » 28 Jun 2004 15:46

are the jags routinely flying with ferry tanks as well as top ups from gajrani?

Rudra · Post by **Rudra** » 28 Jun 2004 16:09

JASDF F-15s have practised regularly in alaska.
pretty good, but dont have amraam or the latest radar. they have some great artwork.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 28 Jun 2004 16:15

>>Good pics - But can we have some good quality Digital pics than these video grabs?

Please don't look a gift horse in the mouth. These are in all probability the first pix of our IAF aircraft in any Italian base and definitely the first on the net from the lead up to Cope Thunder. If he could have taken digital pix, he would have. Anything else available, Vishnu will deliver when he can for sure. For now, just say thanx.

Babui · Post by **Babui** » 28 Jun 2004 16:58

Is it correct - 4 jags and 16 pilots?

CPrakash · Post by **CPrakash** » 28 Jun 2004 17:00

Originally posted by JE Menon:
If he could have taken digital pix, he would have. Anything else available, Vishnu will deliver when he can for sure. For now, just say thanx.

Its not a crime to ask if he had taken a digital camera along.

A TV crew goes all the way from delhi to italy and carries no digital / still cameras along? And with todays 3CCD DV Cams, they do not have better res pictures than here? unlikely!

My point is that Vishnu probably has some digi pics or better res pics stashed away - is it too much to ask for a glimpse of those?

Thing is I probably got spoilt looking at all the high res pics from BR/Airliners/JetPhotos etc

Bose · Post by **Bose** » 28 Jun 2004 17:12

Vishnu, awesome pics!! Bet the italians saw a few things NATO & unkil didn't teach 'em

Just a question on the side....the jags seem to be sporting a overall grey paint scheme....when was this started??? earlier they had the camo just like on the angrez aircraft. Is this kind of grey applied to the IN seaking choppers too??

Sridhar · Post by **Sridhar** » 28 Jun 2004 17:20

Originally posted by CPrakash:
A TV crew goes all the way from delhi to italy and carries no digital / still cameras along?

He mentioned that he was in Rome on holiday, not part of an NDTV team that went to cover this incident.

CPrakash · Post by **CPrakash** » 28 Jun 2004 17:23

Originally posted by Sridhar:

Originally posted by CPrakash:
A TV crew goes all the way from delhi to italy and carries no digital / still cameras along?
He mentioned that he was in Rome on holiday, not part of an NDTV team that went to cover this incident.

I stand corrected

<small><small>but you would understand someone on a personal holiday is more likely to carry a digital camera than anyone else... so again please ...if there are any digital pics...pleaassee </small></small>

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 28 Jun 2004 18:01

>>Thing is I probably got spoilt looking at all the high res pics from BR/Airliners/JetPhotos etc

Yup, probably. What I'm saying is, the guy has done us all a favour by putting up what he has. Not nice to ask for more no? Sort of like if someone unexpectedly gifts you a carton of his homegrown mangoes, you turn around and ask "What, you didn't have any alfonsos?" (Gosh, the things you got to do on BR...)

If he has high-res digital pix, he will put it up man. What, you think the rest of us on BR don't want to see high res pix? Relax. If he has the, they'll be up on BR soon enough.

daulat · Post by **daulat** » 28 Jun 2004 18:03

three cheers for vishnu! hip hip hurrah!
any res pic is welcome boss!
we salute you!

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 28 Jun 2004 18:25

Il-78MKI?

Rudra · Post by **Rudra** » 28 Jun 2004 18:30

Raja Bose, IAF has moved to a light grey scheme for all a/c. this has been for a few years now.

Victor, the MKI designates a special version of Midas built at indian request - incorporates a small modular launch bay in fwd fuselage with a rotary launcher for 10 AAMs - presently its empty and awaiting KS-172. will be in our Phalcons too. gives these big a/c (expected to be constantly up in the air during hostilities) a way to defend themselves. the Bars-29 radar (as on Mig29K) will
be mounted in the ample space above the navigators station in the nose.

Vick · Post by **Vick** » 28 Jun 2004 18:32

Originally posted by Rudra Singha:
Raja Bose, IAF has moved to a light grey scheme for all a/c. this has been for a few years now.

Victor, the MKI designates a special version of Midas built at indian request - incorporates a small modular launch bay in fwd fuselage with a rotary launcher for 10 AAMs - presently its empty and awaiting KS-172. will be in our Phalcons too. gives these big a/c (expected to be constantly up in the air during hostilities) a way to defend themselves. the Bars-29 radar (as on Mig29K) will
be mounted in the ample space above the navigators station in the nose.

Rudra · Post by **Rudra** » 28 Jun 2004 18:55

I am serious.

JaiS · Post by **JaiS** » 28 Jun 2004 19:25

Hi,

Vishnu, thanks for the pictures.

RS, in my knowledge there has not been a NIIP-news release which indicates development of a Bars for transport aircrafts.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 28 Jun 2004 19:58

The 78s can be converted into transports - partially or completely. They have modular "palets".

daulat · Post by **daulat** » 28 Jun 2004 20:02

Originally posted by Jai:
Hi,

Vishnu, thanks for the pictures.

RS, in my knowledge there has not been a NIIP-news release which indicates development of a Bars for transport aircrafts.

why would there be? take a standard bars, mechanically fit it, wire it up and plug in teh requisite computers and displays. you could even 'cut and paste' it out of a MiG29. the missile launch pod is more complex, but the idea has been kicking around for some time. you do compromise on some load, however - better alive than not

JaiS · Post by **JaiS** » 28 Jun 2004 20:18

Originally posted by Daulat:
why would there be? take a standard bars, mechanically fit it, wire it up and plug in teh requisite computers and displays. you could even 'cut and paste' it out of a MiG29.

There are multiple aspects to the issue. First is the technical feasibility of the proposal or the practicality of the proposal. The second aspect is whether there have been indications to the effect that some work is being done in this direction by NIIP/IAF/anybody else. The third aspect is the utility of such a modification. My post is in context of the second aspect.

As far as the technical feasibility of such a project is concerned, a factor in favour of the proposal is the availability of more space on the -78MKI. I would like to wait and think for more time regarding any other issues which might have to be solved.

Relevant photos :

<img src="http://forum.airforces.info/attachment. ... 9408&stc=1" alt="" />

<img src="http://forum.airforces.info/attachment. ... 9409&stc=1" alt="" />

Ashutosh · Post by **Ashutosh** » 28 Jun 2004 20:24

:whine: Where are test9.jpg and test11.jpg? :whine:

JaiS · Post by **JaiS** » 28 Jun 2004 20:27

Test - 9 :

<img src="http://forum.airforces.info/attachment. ... 9410&stc=1" alt="" />

Test - 11 :

<img src="http://forum.airforces.info/attachment. ... 9412&stc=1" alt="" />

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 28 Jun 2004 20:29

Originally posted by Rudra Singha:
I am serious.

You pulling a fast one man ??? Generally, when refuelling, you need to turn your radar off. Highly suspect that its gonna get any radar.

Vishnu · Post by **Vishnu** » 28 Jun 2004 20:33

Sorry guys ... but yes, the images are video grabs .. thats cause I was using my personal mini-dvc camera ... and made a hash of using the still-pic mode ... otherwise we would have had images of the Jag's fuel probe ... Also, I didn't have more than 5 minutes of time to film ... I will try and send a few moe grabs may be tomorrow ... again, Shiv, and the other mods, I count on you .. to put these up ...

Yes, the Jags were using external fuel tanks ... nothing on the centre-line though ... in addition to being topped up ... Got to sit in the cockpit of one of the jets ... other than the single central monitor for navigation purposes, this was a classic seventies cockpit ... cluttered beyond words ... outstanding view down the nose though ... as good as the view down the nose of a Flogger ... Refuelling proble switch located just under and to the right of the HUD ... None of the planes are carrying any live ammo ... not even the 30mm cannon ... a lot of practise bombs though ... Also, 2 spare engines are being carried ... None of the Jags were DARIN-2 equipped and to the best of my knowledge, none were new build ... There were no Jag twins ... Also (as more random thoughts pour), the IAF has requested flights on USAF F-15s and F-16s (Block 50 plus) ... but cannot, obviously, reciprocate since we don't have any twins ... By the way, BR has an image of a Jag twin during inflight-refuelling ... I am told that presently none of the Jag twins can actually refuel mid-air ... though obviously, they can train on the twins ...
Also learnt that the IAF prefers to use only the wing pods of the Il-78s for refuelling ... the centreline pod is used essentially as a spare ... Also, they rarely (never) use a wing pod in conjunction with a centre-line pod since that affects the aircraft's flight characteristics ...

Thanks
Vishnu

George J · Post by **George J** » 28 Jun 2004 21:06

Originally posted by Vishnu Som:
....Got to sit in the cockpit of one of the jets ... other than the single central monitor for navigation purposes, this was a classic seventies cockpit ... cluttered beyond words ... outstanding view down the nose though ... as good as the view down the nose of a Flogger ........ None of the Jags were DARIN-2 equipped and to the best of my knowledge, none were new build ...

Korrectly translated into jingospeak using the BR censorbot:
....I had the great honour of sitting in the cockpit of one these magnificant flying machines ... they a central monitor with a primary navigation function... the rest of the instrumentation had a highly fuctional retro touch, which might seem overwhelming to a layperson....all this provided for an outstanding view down the nose though ... similar to the Flogger in the IAF inventory ........ there are no open sources to indicate the presence of DARIN-2 on the Jags...and these mature maginficant flying machines are certainly upto any challenge..

THATS what Vishnu was trying to say...he was distracted by the beavy of Eye-talian beauties to korrectly word his sentences..

Saurav · Post by **Saurav** » 28 Jun 2004 21:30

Great pics.

Any special reason to take the longer route via Europe rather than the shorter route via East Asia?

Anurag · Post by **Anurag** » 28 Jun 2004 21:40

Originally posted by saurav:
Great pics.

Any special reason to take the longer route via Europe rather than the shorter route via East Asia?

Diplomacy!

Umrao · Post by **Umrao** » 28 Jun 2004 21:54

George>> And one of those (distractions) happened to be Sophia Loren with two 'Symmetrical Pods" which add to the balance & poise, although the look & feel might be retro they are real and not enhancement or agumentation unlike the current top models fashion these days.

Rudra · Post by **Rudra** » 28 Jun 2004 22:08

I distinctly remember the east asia route was planned for this trip even three months ago. something like india-thailand-taiwan-japan-aleutians-alaska.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 28 Jun 2004 23:21

If the Jags that we've sent are'nt DARIN equipped, then does'nt that mean that we've actually sent BAe built Jags ? Vishnu, does it have anything to do with the recent problem related to split pin being missing,ie was that only in HAL aircraft ? otherwise, why would an obviously inferior Jag (compared to the HAL ones) be sent abroad, when we're gonna work with other air-forces ? also, if the guys flying are all TACDE guys, then they must be real topguns.

will be really interesting to see what the comments will be about this exercise.

Vishnu · Post by **Vishnu** » 29 Jun 2004 00:26

These are all DARIN equipped planes ... but none of them have the deeper DARIN-II upgrade which has been planned ...

In case I was unclear about some other stuff ... here goes ... "As I sat in the cockpit of the Jaguar, I was awestruck at the Italian beauty who loitered across the tarmac ... My awe was magnified by the drooping nose of the Jaguar ... and under such circumstances ... all I could think about was the flogger (MiG 27), the bishop (Italy is a very holy country) ... and the main vain (inflight refuelling)..."

Hope that clears up any doubts in anyone's mind ...

Cheers
Vishnu

daulat · Post by **daulat** » 29 Jun 2004 00:55

vishnu - there are so many double entendres in your signorina description that i must blush and refrain from obvious comment

, except that if you toucha da signorina, da bishop smasha yorafaice!