Exercise Co-operative Cope Thunder

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Postby JTull » 18 Aug 2004 10:05

Priyank. wrote:The ToI article on role the IL-78 during Exercise Coperative Cope Thunder mentions that it can carry upto 118 tonnes of fuel.

I am sure some of you are going to have a nice time doing all kinds of math using that datum.


Yeah, given that an average baby takes 3-4 tonnes in one go, and we use only two probes at a time, a Midas can service couple of squadrons in less than 2 hours.

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Postby JTull » 18 Aug 2004 10:17

IAF team shows spunk in US

FLYING FROM daybreak till late at night, undergoing extensive mission plannings, flying till it tested their stamina, the IAF contingent in Exercise Cope Thunder in the US not only showed utmost professionalism but also won hearts of the Americans.

Appreciating their role as ambassadors of the nation, the Chief of Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal S. Krishnaswamy proudly proclaimed that the media in Alaska described the IAF contingent as the “nicest bunch of people they had ever met”.

Speaking to HT, the members of the contingent expressed delight at having been exposed to the tactics and planning of other air forces in the exercise and were one in their view that it had broadened their horizons and honed their skills.

Flight Lt Vishal Gupta, who flew a Jaguar in the exercise, said the pilots got to know the work ethics of other participating air forces and got an opportunity to show how the average Indian pilot was better then the others in stamina and flying skills.

Flight Lt S.K. Anand said that there were lessons learnt but it was also time to give “headaches” to the Americans and prove the mettle of the IAF. Crossing the Atlantic was also a challenge because there would be no turning back after a certain point over the ocean.

One of the peculiar problems faced by the pilots was that of the compasses “acting funny” due to the proximity of the airbase in Alaska to the North Pole. Wing Commander S. Sanjay said they were prepared for this eventuality and did not allow it to affect their flying.

However, the most elated flyers in the bunch were those who flew the IL-78 flight refuelling aircraft and trained hard for the exercise. Squadron Leaders A. Roy and S.S. Shinulkar said that the two IL-78 aircraft had been flying down to Ambala from Agra everyday since March 1 to train with Jaguar pilots.

“We shifted to Ambala in June and cleared our concepts along with the fighter pilots getting to know them and working towards achieving synergy,” said Roy. Sorties were flown between Ambala and Nagpur to simulate the crossing of the Atlantic with the understanding that there was no airbase in between these two points.

More exercises on anvil
THE IAF will be taking part in a joint exercise with the South African Air Force in which six Mirage 2000 aircraft and two IL-78 aircraft will take place. Later this year, the IAF will take part in an exercise with the Singapore Air Force in Gwalior.

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Postby JTull » 18 Aug 2004 10:23

Praying lips all smiles as pilots touch base

HERE, nothing is left to chance, or taken for granted. So as the Air Force team was to leave for Cooperative Cope Thunder exercise in Alaska, squadron Commanding Officer, Wg Cdr K.K. Khera’s house was the venue for mahamrityunjay jap. A total of 57 days later, as the team touched down at Ambala today, it seemed to have worked well. Prayers on the lips of kin turning to broad smiles.

Dressed in their best day wear, wives of pilots who took off for Eilson in the United States on June 21 were all smiles as the men touched down to safety this morning.

Brimming with joy, Priyanka Kukreti, wife of Jaguar pilot, Flt Lt Devashish Kukreti, said ‘‘Yes, there were some apprehensions about him flying so far. It is part of our lives. All that we could do was to pray for their safe return. They have, touchwood.’’

Priyanka, whose brother is a paratrooper in the Army, said ‘‘Everyday, we performed pujas and prayed to seek his blessings to ward off any obstacle. We were regularly in touch, though.’’

Waiting in a nearby room was little Isha and her mother Rupali Tomar. Overjoyed to see her father Flt Lt Vikas Tomar back, the child couldn’t control her excitement. ‘‘We did have some apprehensions. We kept our fingers crossed. More than anything else, we were praying for favourable weather.’’

Mother of Flt Lt Vishal Gupta, head of PGI’s Anatomy Department, Prof Madhur Gupta, however, had no fear. ‘‘My husband was in the Air Force. I was never afraid. Today, I am a proud mother. E-mails allowed us to stay in touch regularly.’’

Charged with memories of what he dubbed the ‘‘brightest’’ phase of his career, Wg Cdr Sanjay, who flew the IL 76 transport aircraft observed: ‘‘We did not fear flying for such long hours. We did adequate planning and preparation to help us clock nearly 20,000 km one side.’’ The Wg Cdr added: ‘‘With prayers to the Almighty, everything turned out to be perfect. He showered us with his blessings to succeed in our mission. He was deep in our hearts.’’

Obstacles galore but they made it on time
Recalling their flight across countries and oceans, the pilots said dense clouds in Canada did not quite put them at ease. Commander of the two IL 78 tanker aircraft which refuelled the six Jaguars, Gp Capt Shouvik Roy, said ‘‘The weather was quite demanding, especially in Canada. We encountered lots of low clouds, precipitation and rain. It was coupled with heavy air traffic for Alaska. Still, we were able to reach the destination dot on time.’’

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Postby Himanshu » 18 Aug 2004 11:36


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Postby shiv » 18 Aug 2004 14:03

Himanshu wrote:TONS of IAF cope thunder pics..

:eek: http://homepage.mac.com/aviationphoto/pages/page6.html


Hmmmmm - there are some pretty pictures there folks.

Let's get our lenses out and start looking at them critically. What is good? What is bad? Which photos are pretty? It it the color? The angle? The lighting? The time of day?

Aero India is 6 months away and we MUST come out with the best pictures yet.

Cmon all you photo and camera maniacs. Get busy dissecting these.

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Postby shiv » 18 Aug 2004 14:07

A great picture of a clamshell thrust reverser

http://homepage.mac.com/aviationphoto/p ... C03682.jpg

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Postby JTull » 18 Aug 2004 14:46

shiv wrote:A great picture of a clamshell thrust reverser

http://homepage.mac.com/aviationphoto/p ... C03682.jpg


What's the purpose of this?

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Postby Vick » 18 Aug 2004 14:53

What's the purpose of this?


Decelerate the aircraft after landing deflecting the engine exhaust.

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Postby rajkumar » 18 Aug 2004 15:06

JTull wrote:
shiv wrote:A great picture of a clamshell thrust reverser

http://homepage.mac.com/aviationphoto/p ... C03682.jpg


What's the purpose of this?


Slow the aircraft on landing. The thrust of the engines is directed 'forwards; and in effect the aircraft slows itself.

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Postby Singha » 18 Aug 2004 15:35

the clamshell thing is used in most civilian a/c . look at rear of engine
in B737 or A320 next time u fly.

I liked this photo. Looks like a endless usaf lineup of heavies heh heh
http://homepage.mac.com/aviationphoto/p ... C05124.jpg

George J

Postby George J » 18 Aug 2004 18:09

Wow those are some really good pics. I loved the shots of the Jag with their afterburners. BR should acquire them or at least get permission to link to them.

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Postby Jagan » 18 Aug 2004 18:35

Always wanted to ask - Do we really need permission to LINK to a site?

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:P

Postby merlin » 18 Aug 2004 18:37

>>Aero India is 6 months away and we MUST come out with the best pictures yet.

Please to get permission to shoot from in front of the railings rather than behind them saaar. Will surely do the needfull.

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Postby merlin » 18 Aug 2004 18:40

>>Always wanted to ask - Do we really need permission to LINK to a site?

Shaayad, agar permission liya toh, he'll think twice before removing the link?

AFAIK, no permission is required to link to a site, although its considerd courteous to inform the site owner of the link. If you don't inform, he might have no idea who's linking to his site and might remove the page and then you are left with a dangling link.

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Postby Arun_S » 18 Aug 2004 18:54

shiv wrote:
Himanshu wrote:TONS of IAF cope thunder pics..

:eek: http://homepage.mac.com/aviationphoto/pages/page6.html


Hmmmmm - there are some pretty pictures there folks.

Let's get our lenses out and start looking at them critically. What is good? What is bad? Which photos are pretty? It it the color? The angle? The lighting? The time of day?

Aero India is 6 months away and we MUST come out with the best pictures yet.

Cmon all you photo and camera maniacs. Get busy dissecting these.



By my rakoning these are unique / good ones:

1. http://homepage.mac.com/aviationphoto/p ... C03728.jpg
2. http://homepage.mac.com/aviationphoto/p ... C03587.jpg
3. http://homepage.mac.com/aviationphoto/p ... C03604.jpg
4. http://homepage.mac.com/aviationphoto/p ... C03615.jpg
5. http://homepage.mac.com/aviationphoto/p ... C03616.jpg
6. http://homepage.mac.com/aviationphoto/p ... C03642.jpg
7. http://homepage.mac.com/aviationphoto/p ... C03674.jpg
8. http://homepage.mac.com/aviationphoto/p ... C03719.jpg

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Postby ramana » 18 Aug 2004 19:04

From many press accounts of Cope Thunder the IAF Jags had penetrated the USAF defences and made strikes on ground targets. Please discuss implications for the TSP's high value targets and those with PLAAF.

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Postby SaiK » 18 Aug 2004 19:05

these photographs looks pretty good. the angle, lighting and picture focus is perfect. most importantly, the location and background does not distract the object that is pictured. great shots.

besides, the resolution is good.

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Postby Niranjan » 18 Aug 2004 19:15

Lighting - depends on location during time of day. Need permission to be located anywhere - press pass, etc
Size - depends on lenses and at times on the number of cemaras on hand - each with a diff lens helps

Subjects have to cooperate too. If planes are parked - for instance - facing away from the sun/light, then not much you can do. Unless u have a high slunk camera.

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Re: :P

Postby shiv » 18 Aug 2004 19:21

merlin wrote:>>Aero India is 6 months away and we MUST come out with the best pictures yet.

Please to get permission to shoot from in front of the railings rather than behind them saaar. Will surely do the needfull.


Yes - but I think these pics go far beyond that.

The composition is excellent. There is symmetry in the photographs, or an unusual angle to highlight something. The lighting composition is great with no deep shadows and bright areas. Movement is captured in several photos - the after burner and the spray in a jag takeoff. Even the "half-jag" photo looks good with an Illyushin in the background - both equally well lit up. There are some photos with a some bery pretty color contrats - green on grey or orange on grey. There is general lack of distracting things on the side - but that can only be avoided by luck and careful composition I suppose.

I don't know if subtle lighting conditions in Alaska helped - but in Bangalore in Feb we tend to have very bright sky, very bright tarmac and dark shadows below the aircraft.

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Postby Ashutosh » 18 Aug 2004 19:22

That ToI article is crap. The Midas can carry approx. 35 tonnes of fuel only. You need a C-5 or a C-141 to carry 100+ tonnes worth of cargo load.

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Postby Vick » 18 Aug 2004 19:23

The composition can also come from excellent cropping and image manipulation software.

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Postby JaiS » 18 Aug 2004 19:24

;)

Himanshu wrote:TONS of IAF cope thunder pics..

:eek: http://homepage.mac.com/aviationphoto/pages/page6.html


Pics already posted on page - 3.

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Postby Ashutosh » 18 Aug 2004 19:26

Shiv, I used to concentrate on all sorts of issues w.r.t. taking good pictures, like aperture, shutter, etc. etc. But it's not really that difficult - just set your camera to program mode (full auto), use an ISO of 100 or 64 for a clear sky or 200 or 400 for a cloudy sky.

Jut keep two things in mind:
- Just try to fit the whole plane/object in the frame, and align your photograph with the horizon, and your pictures will turn out to be awesome.

- And make sure you take all your "outdoor" pictures before 10AM or after 4PM in India; otherwise you'll get toplight in your pictures making them very high contrast.

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Postby Niranjan » 18 Aug 2004 19:30

The pcitures we see are more than likely only those that made the cut. I have to suspect that there are a ton of others that did not make it to the web.

So, at Aero05, click around 500 with teh hope that 50 or so make the cut to be displayed on the web.

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Postby Singha » 18 Aug 2004 20:10

the images contain no exif data. looks like he took with film camera and scanned in. a digital camera does help to review the quality of shots but most dont do well in adverse light conditions unlike SLRs.

A overcast sky with light but no shadows is what Aeroindia should have.

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Postby Jagan » 18 Aug 2004 20:29

MT Singha wrote:the images contain no exif data. looks like he took with film camera and scanned in. a digital camera does help to review the quality of shots but most dont do well in adverse light conditions unlike SLRs.


He clearly mentions on his home page that hes gone completely DIGITAL.

The Sony DSC-F828 offered my focal range of 28 to 200 mm right out of the camera, faster lens down to f2.0, manual zoom and an optional manual focus ring. A huge battery life capable of filling my 2 cards of 3/4 of a gig even using flash most of time. Most of all there is no worries about CCD dust and it is convenient enough to take to my daughters skating lessons with the feel of an SLR.

Air to air shoots? I am ready. No more pockets full of film and squeezing equipment in the nooks and crannys of airplanes. Helmets and masks do not bother me because I can now shoot from the rear LCD screen. Maybe that will cure motion sickness! The added bonus is that I can now burn a CD of the event, right at the event.

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Postby SaiK » 18 Aug 2004 20:39

focus is everything for picture quality. some do it manually, now mostly automagic. btw, sony has a dvd-corder i think that burns it direct.

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Postby Ashutosh » 18 Aug 2004 20:50

He's used Adobe Photoshop to descale and downsize the images. IIRC Adobe on Apple Macintosh by default does not maintain EXIF information if you are doing that.

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Postby Singha » 18 Aug 2004 21:25

odd choice for a camera. I just hate those $999 prosumer ones coming out with the big lens on left in a L-shaped design. :evil:

btw I will be permanently in Blore from december - if I can find a new job :roll:

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Postby Cybaru » 18 Aug 2004 21:29

Ashutosh wrote:He's used Adobe Photoshop to descale and downsize the images. IIRC Adobe on Apple Macintosh by default does not maintain EXIF information if you are doing that.


I think that changed with Photoshop CS.

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Postby Niranjan » 18 Aug 2004 21:31

ramana wrote:From many press accounts of Cope Thunder the IAF Jags had penetrated the USAF defences and made strikes on ground targets. Please discuss implications for the TSP's high value targets and those with PLAAF.


I am not sure if it has any implications. And, at this stage, it should not really matter. Real-time situations pose a different set of problems - unique to the region and probably each operation/flight. The Copes, I think, can only add to the knowledge base - anything additional to what is already known. BDian observers were also present there, FWIW.

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Postby Cybaru » 18 Aug 2004 21:43

MT Singha wrote:odd choice for a camera. I just hate those $999 prosumer ones coming out with the big lens on left in a L-shaped design. :evil:


The big selling point of those lenses are those fast fast 28 mm f 2.0 lenses...

They cost a fortune otherwise.. But the shutter lag really makes them a *itch to use for fast moving objects.. Things are getting better though..

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Postby Singha » 18 Aug 2004 21:45

$999 is a steep price to pay for a fixed lens camera. one would
be better for getting a digital rebel outfit for same price.
Is it F2.0 across the whole range or F increases as the zoom
goes up..thats typically the case.

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Postby Cybaru » 18 Aug 2004 22:29

That depends on the manufacturer .. Some do offer a constant F 2.0 But they are meant for those richy rich types that can afford it.. Otherwise F 2.0 becomes f 2.8 in worst case when fully zoomed. It still offers quite a bit of price benefit when compared to $4000 dollar price tag for a 200 mm f 2.0 zoom. Not to mention they is only one or two manufacturer's making that kind of lens..

Trying to get drebel to fit that profile would cost you no less than $5000 dollars when you are done getting all what prosumer compact offers you.

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Postby merlin » 19 Aug 2004 09:32

>>btw I will be permanently in Blore from december - if I can find a new job

Then we should meet, but only if you buy and get that D70 :D

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Postby Himanshu » 19 Aug 2004 09:37

JaiS wrote:;)

Himanshu wrote:TONS of IAF cope thunder pics..

:eek: http://homepage.mac.com/aviationphoto/pages/page6.html


Pics already posted on page - 3.



Did'nt noticed it.. :( .. I saw later that you had posted this link on AFM too..

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Postby JE Menon » 19 Aug 2004 14:00

Amazing lack of noise given it's an F828 and the light conditions in several of them... Great photos anyhow.

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Postby Singha » 19 Aug 2004 17:09

merlin, its done.

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Postby ameya » 20 Aug 2004 07:28

In one of the reports I read that Jaguars crossed the Atlantic with speeds of 600kmph.
Why is it soo slow.
This is even slower than the regular civil jetliners.
Is the reason fuel consumption?

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Postby SaiK » 20 Aug 2004 08:49

let me guess:

- stay in group at optimum speed
- mid-air refueling
- match speed with the re-fueler.

short range a/cs for longer range mission.


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